Have you forgotten the 30% cut? If my memory is correct Apple was breaking even until recently.
These two sentences don't help one another. You say the first as though it would be "obvious" that Apple is making money, but then state that they hadn't been.
As someone that's unlucky enough to have Windows 8 on my Mac I can report that it is indeed a complete basket case of an operating system with severe multi-personality disorder.
What I don't understand is why Microshite seems intent on pushing regular desktop users towards using the woeful "Metro" apps. Even their own examples make Vista look stunning.
This whole iTunes for Office swap that everyone is speculating on does not mean much.
Apple gets zero benefit from working on an iTunes for Windows 8 touch devices - there is insignificant marketshare for these devices, so Apple gains almost nothing from offering the product on Windows 8 touch. If this was just a case of recompiling the existing iTunes code to ARM, it would probably make sense, but Apple needs to do a lot more than that.
For MS however, not offering Office on the iPad is a massive blunder. iPad is a very significant product, and by not offering Office for iPad, MS risks that there will be tens of millions of users who use the iWork products - simply because there is no other option. At some point, if there is a critical mass around iWork, that could actually be a costly problem for MS. The difference between iWork and Office is not so much about usability, functionality, performance or anything like that. It is quite simply the fact that everyone has Office, and very few people have iWork. So if you create a doc in iWork, and send it to someone, there is a big risk that the recipient might not be able to view it, because she doesn't have iWork.
And of course, there is the small matter of missing out on approximately $50 of revenue from literally 10's of millions of tablets!
iTunes is a revenue stream for Apple. They're crazy not to put it there I could easily see Amazon throwing something together to throw on Metro to sell music and movies if the opening is there.
Most iPhone users are Windows users. iPod users too.
It seems to be a lack of expertise.
No really, they can buy everything on their iOS devices.
The problem is: Apple should do it so Android users still give some sort of revenue to Apple and find themselves tied to Apple. However, Apple should put everything on their huge software list first: iWork, Safari, mail, OSX, icloud, Pro-apps, etc.
Obviously there is a windows team in Apple. However you're probably right iTunes is probably in MFC ( or some mid level apple code which compiles to MFC and OS X - Carbon?)
Not in .Net.
iTunes uses OS X frameworks (CoreFoundation, et al) ported to Win32 and MFC. Consider that iTunes has been available for Windows since 2003.
So yeah, big undertaking to make it Metro. Bigger yet undertaking to make it tablet-friendly. For how much revenue (especially now that you can do almost everything iTunes can do on the iOS device itself)? Not worth it IMO.
These two sentences don't help one another. You say the first as though it would be "obvious" that Apple is making money, but then state that they hadn't been.
I was answering his questions except I switched the order. Apple has always made money it just equaled their cost. Don't equate profit with making money. His question should've been "How can one profit distributing someone else's content?"
"Oh, I'm making money hand over fist! I'm making so much money that I'm breaking even!"
"Er…"
Don't be an idiot. Nobody who's breaking even is going to describe as "making money hand over fist", but one does have to make money to the point that they're breaking even. Take a person that lives paycheck to paycheck, they're making money except it almost all goes to their living expenses so at the end of the month they have little in thefform of cash but they ate, paid their rent, bought clothes, etc
The entire paradigm of WIndows 8 is a clusterfuck. Having multiple apps, one for the desktop mode, one for Metro, is just messy. You're never really sure which one to use. I have desktop skype and metro skype installed, and they both "ring" and send me notifications simultaneously.. it's just weird. I know I can uninstall one, but the fact that this is even allowed to happen with the OS Microsoft has envisioned, and the direction things should go, is just ridiculous. Apple is absolutely right in not wanting to invest resources creating a "metro" version of iTunes. I don't think the development and maintenance efforts will be worth it, nor do I think Apple wants to design ANYTHING following the metro design paradigms. iTunes has an identical interface in both OSX and Windows, they're not going to make a separate one that looks completely different for Metro. I don't see them contributing anything to Metro, no should they.
Best presentation software available and they "devote no resources to iWork"? How does that work?
Again- like normal- you quote only a fraction of the post so you can make an "Apple does no wrong" post- and leave out everything else that was dead on.
If they make the best presentation software available (that's debatable, but for sake of argument- lets say it is)- and afterwards devote no resources to it- does that make his statement any less true?
But of course, you try to find that one tiny bit of hope to cling to (keynote) and ignore the rest of his post that mentioned word and specific examples of how to improve it. Lets not even mention numbers which is by and large the most inadequate of all 3 programs. For the record- I still prefer keynote and pages over office- but that doesn't mean I also don't realize it's completely neglected or see room for improvement. Take your head out of the ground.
How the tables have turned. Now who needs who's help?
And Apple should respond in kind. Office for Mac was part of the package that allowed Apple to recover after Jobs' return. Apple should indeed build a touch version of iTunes for Window 8. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Microsoft is going after Android tooth and nail and Apple should do every reasonable thing to help Microsoft succeed in taking Android down a notch or two.
Best presentation software available and they "devote no resources to iWork"? How does that work?
Okay, hyperbole fail on my part there. It should be obvious from my previous rants that to me, "iWork" equals "Pages." But the same comments are definitely true if applied to Numbers, and I would further argue that throwing a few new transitions into Keynote, doesn't qualify as "devoting significant resources to iWork."
Also, Keynote on iOS would qualify as "feature complete" in respect to it's desktop version right from the start, so there isn't much serious work to be done there. Pages on the other hand, doesn't do some very basic things that it's desktop counterpart does.
Comments
For Apple, it is a revenue decision. Will they make enough money from the 100 or so users on the new OS?
Have you forgotten the 30% cut? If my memory is correct Apple was breaking even until recently.
Originally Posted by dasanman69
Have you forgotten the 30% cut? If my memory is correct Apple was breaking even until recently.
These two sentences don't help one another. You say the first as though it would be "obvious" that Apple is making money, but then state that they hadn't been.
What I don't understand is why Microshite seems intent on pushing regular desktop users towards using the woeful "Metro" apps. Even their own examples make Vista look stunning.
It's making margins of about 20%. They could make a deal with Microsoft to reduce fees on either end.
This whole iTunes for Office swap that everyone is speculating on does not mean much.
Apple gets zero benefit from working on an iTunes for Windows 8 touch devices - there is insignificant marketshare for these devices, so Apple gains almost nothing from offering the product on Windows 8 touch. If this was just a case of recompiling the existing iTunes code to ARM, it would probably make sense, but Apple needs to do a lot more than that.
For MS however, not offering Office on the iPad is a massive blunder. iPad is a very significant product, and by not offering Office for iPad, MS risks that there will be tens of millions of users who use the iWork products - simply because there is no other option. At some point, if there is a critical mass around iWork, that could actually be a costly problem for MS. The difference between iWork and Office is not so much about usability, functionality, performance or anything like that. It is quite simply the fact that everyone has Office, and very few people have iWork. So if you create a doc in iWork, and send it to someone, there is a big risk that the recipient might not be able to view it, because she doesn't have iWork.
And of course, there is the small matter of missing out on approximately $50 of revenue from literally 10's of millions of tablets!
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd
Quote:
Originally Posted by Conrail
iTunes is a revenue stream for Apple. They're crazy not to put it there I could easily see Amazon throwing something together to throw on Metro to sell music and movies if the opening is there.
Most iPhone users are Windows users. iPod users too.
It seems to be a lack of expertise.
No really, they can buy everything on their iOS devices.
The problem is: Apple should do it so Android users still give some sort of revenue to Apple and find themselves tied to Apple. However, Apple should put everything on their huge software list first: iWork, Safari, mail, OSX, icloud, Pro-apps, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd
Obviously there is a windows team in Apple. However you're probably right iTunes is probably in MFC ( or some mid level apple code which compiles to MFC and OS X - Carbon?)
Not in .Net.
iTunes uses OS X frameworks (CoreFoundation, et al) ported to Win32 and MFC. Consider that iTunes has been available for Windows since 2003.
So yeah, big undertaking to make it Metro. Bigger yet undertaking to make it tablet-friendly. For how much revenue (especially now that you can do almost everything iTunes can do on the iOS device itself)? Not worth it IMO.
I was answering his questions except I switched the order. Apple has always made money it just equaled their cost. Don't equate profit with making money. His question should've been "How can one profit distributing someone else's content?"
Originally Posted by dasanman69
Don't equate profit with making money.
"Hey, Ted, how's the business going?"
"Oh, I'm making money hand over fist! I'm making so much money that I'm breaking even!"
"Er…"
is that the same way that itunes for mountain lion is really itunes for lion which is really itunes for snow leopard? i mean, it's all itunes 11.
Don't be an idiot. Nobody who's breaking even is going to describe as "making money hand over fist", but one does have to make money to the point that they're breaking even. Take a person that lives paycheck to paycheck, they're making money except it almost all goes to their living expenses so at the end of the month they have little in thefform of cash but they ate, paid their rent, bought clothes, etc
The 30% started with music and was then applied to apps.
The entire paradigm of WIndows 8 is a clusterfuck. Having multiple apps, one for the desktop mode, one for Metro, is just messy. You're never really sure which one to use. I have desktop skype and metro skype installed, and they both "ring" and send me notifications simultaneously.. it's just weird. I know I can uninstall one, but the fact that this is even allowed to happen with the OS Microsoft has envisioned, and the direction things should go, is just ridiculous. Apple is absolutely right in not wanting to invest resources creating a "metro" version of iTunes. I don't think the development and maintenance efforts will be worth it, nor do I think Apple wants to design ANYTHING following the metro design paradigms. iTunes has an identical interface in both OSX and Windows, they're not going to make a separate one that looks completely different for Metro. I don't see them contributing anything to Metro, no should they.
Originally Posted by dasanman69
Don't be an idiot.
I dunno, I'd say that about someone who didn't know what making money meant.
You know. Making money. As in a profit. Money. They can keep. Money they didn't have previously.
Sort of the definition of the word 'making'.
Take a person that lives paycheck to paycheck… …almost all…
See. Profit. Even you admit it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Best presentation software available and they "devote no resources to iWork"? How does that work?
Again- like normal- you quote only a fraction of the post so you can make an "Apple does no wrong" post- and leave out everything else that was dead on.
If they make the best presentation software available (that's debatable, but for sake of argument- lets say it is)- and afterwards devote no resources to it- does that make his statement any less true?
But of course, you try to find that one tiny bit of hope to cling to (keynote) and ignore the rest of his post that mentioned word and specific examples of how to improve it. Lets not even mention numbers which is by and large the most inadequate of all 3 programs. For the record- I still prefer keynote and pages over office- but that doesn't mean I also don't realize it's completely neglected or see room for improvement. Take your head out of the ground.
Quote:
Originally Posted by studentx
How the tables have turned. Now who needs who's help?
And Apple should respond in kind. Office for Mac was part of the package that allowed Apple to recover after Jobs' return. Apple should indeed build a touch version of iTunes for Window 8. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Microsoft is going after Android tooth and nail and Apple should do every reasonable thing to help Microsoft succeed in taking Android down a notch or two.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Best presentation software available and they "devote no resources to iWork"? How does that work?
Okay, hyperbole fail on my part there. It should be obvious from my previous rants that to me, "iWork" equals "Pages." But the same comments are definitely true if applied to Numbers, and I would further argue that throwing a few new transitions into Keynote, doesn't qualify as "devoting significant resources to iWork."
Also, Keynote on iOS would qualify as "feature complete" in respect to it's desktop version right from the start, so there isn't much serious work to be done there. Pages on the other hand, doesn't do some very basic things that it's desktop counterpart does.