<span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:arial, helvetica, geneva, tahoma, verdana;line-height:normal;">James R. Clapper the Director of National Intelligence says:</span>
Apple denying means nothing, because so called national security letters make it illegal to even acknowledge the receipts thereof.
Thus Apple saying they participate would likely be illegal itself, and how would they know about such a program unless they were participating, so again they'd have to deny not to incriminate themselves.
China, soviet Russia, and the US as well as increasingly so the EU countries use more or less the same Gestapo tactics to "protect" their citizens from being free (which also means being responsible and vulnerable)
Ever wonder where that huge push for social networks and cloud computing really originates from?
Categorically untrue. Stop making stuff up. Shameless or clueless.
So two people who are not named but "with knowledge of some aspects of the program" are proof that Apple is lying? How do you know these two people are telling the truth? Why don't you think it's suspicious that Google, Facebook, and Yahoo are also on the list but deny involvement?
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad
I think it could be that they ALL are going to deny involvement. No company wants to be associated with secret Internet data mining involving the government.
No company wants to make false public statements either. I am sure there is more to this. But the public statements made by all these companies should be taken at their face value. After all, they had the option of making no comments. The only question is whether they have cleverly disguised the mechanism of "cooperation" in their wording.
This crap was expanded after 9/11 when a moron was in the White House.
Yep, let's attempt to deflect all attention away from the current moron in the White House, and let's somehow find a way to blame everything that happens on past events and past people instead. Nothing is the current moron's fault. Is the current moron not over the age of 18 and not legally responsible for their own actions or something? And just FYI, the current moron is far more moronic than Bush ever was. Even when the current moron does something in 2013, that is somehow Bush's fault, according to certain deluded and ignorant people.
Most transparent administration indeed. What a bunch of crooks, liars and thugs. You can't trust a single word coming out of the current admin. There is a huge web of lies that is growing ever bigger each and every day.
I'd love to see them get indicted and then get what they deserve. That is justice and the American way.
Yep, let's attempt to deflect all attention away from the current moron in the White House, and let's somehow find a way to blame everything that happens on past events and past people instead. Nothing is the current moron's fault. Is the current moron not over the age of 18 and not legally responsible for their own actions or something? And just FYI, the current moron is far more moronic than Bush ever was. Even when the current moron does something in 2013, that is somehow Bush's fault, according to certain deluded and ignorant people.
Most transparent administration indeed. What a bunch of crooks, liars and thugs. You can't trust a single word coming out of the current admin. There is a huge web of lies that is growing ever bigger each and every day.
I'd love to see them get indicted and then get what they deserve. That is justice and the American way.
The problem isn't the politicians in office, it's the people who voted them in.
No company wants to make false public statements either. I am sure there is more to this. But the public statements made by all these companies should be taken at their face value. After all, they had the option of making no comments. The only question is whether they have cleverly disguised the mechanism of "cooperation" in their wording.
It really worries me to see someone so eager to believe corporate propaganda.
No company wants to make false public statements either. I am sure there is more to this. But the public statements made by all these companies should be taken at their face value. After all, they had the option of making no comments. The only question is whether they have cleverly disguised the mechanism of "cooperation" in their wording.
As I keep saying, THE LAW was written to punish anyone revealing anything about their being compelled by government to comply. They literally had/have no choice in this matter. Do it or face an uncertain future. Worse than the Mafia.
I remember a story on the NSA/FBI etc needing to wait 6 weeks or something for Apple to access a users data from their account/messages/texts etc. So they aren't providing direct access to the government. I don't think this is true. I'm sure some information is shared, but not to the extent that this story makes it out to be.
Yep, let's attempt to deflect all attention away from the current moron in the White House, and let's somehow find a way to blame everything that happens on past events and past people instead. Nothing is the current moron's fault. Is the current moron not over the age of 18 and not legally responsible for their own actions or something? And just FYI, the current moron is far more moronic than Bush ever was. Even when the current moron does something in 2013, that is somehow Bush's fault, according to certain deluded and ignorant people.
Most transparent administration indeed. What a bunch of crooks, liars and thugs. You can't trust a single word coming out of the current admin. There is a huge web of lies that is growing ever bigger each and every day.
I'd love to see them get indicted and then get what they deserve. That is justice and the American way. :smokey:
I'm Canadian, so I'm pretty neutral on the whole president thing, but I'm sorry. Bush was pretty terrible. Every president has their problems, and Barack is not that great either, but you have to admit that Bush was pretty dumb. He was completely clueless most of the time.
I feel like the quality of presidents continues to decline for you Americans. Clinton was pretty smart, made mistakes, sure, but is a smart man. (Not that Canada's gov is much better)
I'm Canadian, so I'm pretty neutral on the whole president thing, but I'm sorry. Bush was pretty terrible. Every president has their problems, and Barack is not that great either, but you have to admit that Bush was pretty dumb. He was completely clueless most of the time.
I feel like the quality of presidents continues to decline for you Americans. Clinton was pretty smart, made mistakes, sure, but is a smart man. (Not that Canada's gov is much better)
The biggest problem with political leaders is this: The only leader who can be trusted is the person who least wants the job.
I'm Canadian, so I'm pretty neutral on the whole president thing, but I'm sorry. Bush was pretty terrible. Every president has their problems, and Barack is not that great either, but you have to admit that Bush was pretty dumb. He was completely clueless most of the time.
I feel like the quality of presidents continues to decline for you Americans. Clinton was pretty smart, made mistakes, sure, but is a smart man. (Not that Canada's gov is much better)
Nope, sorry, I don't agree with that.
I'm certainly not claiming that Bush was a super genius, but Obama is not one bit smarter. I'm aware that the majority of media outlets have been censoring and not reporting on Obama's endless gaffes, so people who aren't informed (the average person) are not even aware of them, but they do exist. There are many of them.
I strongly disapprove of most instances where governments argue that important matters should be secret and information about them kept from the public.
Surely the absolute heart of democracy is the public being able to choose who should govern. Such choice should by necessity be informed-choice. If governments keep secret, matters which the voting public might wish to know about in order to make an informed-choice through elections, they are undermining the core concept of democracy.
Let's hope the article is mistaken about Apple's involvement.
May 2006: The National Security Agency has been secretly collecting the phone call records of tens of millions of Americans, using data provided by AT&T, Verizon and BellSouth...
Comments
Who watches the Watchmen?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich
Who watches the Watchmen?
Yep, its getting scary isn't it?
This reminds me of the vehement denial of Verizon and others about giving out phone records to the NSA.
They explicitly said, they don't do it and NOW we found out that they DO and did.
It has now even been confirmed by the White House
This is what they said back then...
Quote:
May 17, 2006
Verizon Communications said Tuesday that it did not turn over phone records to the National Security Agency (NSA), nor was it asked to do so, as was reported [USA Today report; JURIST report] last week.
They flat out lied because it's really bad for business.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcfa
Apple denying means nothing, because so called national security letters make it illegal to even acknowledge the receipts thereof.
Thus Apple saying they participate would likely be illegal itself, and how would they know about such a program unless they were participating, so again they'd have to deny not to incriminate themselves.
China, soviet Russia, and the US as well as increasingly so the EU countries use more or less the same Gestapo tactics to "protect" their citizens from being free (which also means being responsible and vulnerable)
Ever wonder where that huge push for social networks and cloud computing really originates from?
Categorically untrue. Stop making stuff up. Shameless or clueless.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
So two people who are not named but "with knowledge of some aspects of the program" are proof that Apple is lying? How do you know these two people are telling the truth? Why don't you think it's suspicious that Google, Facebook, and Yahoo are also on the list but deny involvement?
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad
I think it could be that they ALL are going to deny involvement. No company wants to be associated with secret Internet data mining involving the government.
No company wants to make false public statements either. I am sure there is more to this. But the public statements made by all these companies should be taken at their face value. After all, they had the option of making no comments. The only question is whether they have cleverly disguised the mechanism of "cooperation" in their wording.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer
This crap was expanded after 9/11 when a moron was in the White House.
Yep, let's attempt to deflect all attention away from the current moron in the White House, and let's somehow find a way to blame everything that happens on past events and past people instead. Nothing is the current moron's fault. Is the current moron not over the age of 18 and not legally responsible for their own actions or something? And just FYI, the current moron is far more moronic than Bush ever was. Even when the current moron does something in 2013, that is somehow Bush's fault, according to certain deluded and ignorant people.
Most transparent administration indeed. What a bunch of crooks, liars and thugs. You can't trust a single word coming out of the current admin. There is a huge web of lies that is growing ever bigger each and every day.
I'd love to see them get indicted and then get what they deserve. That is justice and the American way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][
Yep, let's attempt to deflect all attention away from the current moron in the White House, and let's somehow find a way to blame everything that happens on past events and past people instead. Nothing is the current moron's fault. Is the current moron not over the age of 18 and not legally responsible for their own actions or something? And just FYI, the current moron is far more moronic than Bush ever was. Even when the current moron does something in 2013, that is somehow Bush's fault, according to certain deluded and ignorant people.
Most transparent administration indeed. What a bunch of crooks, liars and thugs. You can't trust a single word coming out of the current admin. There is a huge web of lies that is growing ever bigger each and every day.
I'd love to see them get indicted and then get what they deserve. That is justice and the American way.
The problem isn't the politicians in office, it's the people who voted them in.
It really worries me to see someone so eager to believe corporate propaganda.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent
No company wants to make false public statements either. I am sure there is more to this.
You can't be serious. Just read post #44
http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/157900/apple-reportedly-latest-company-to-join-us-governments-prism-data-mining-program-ux2/40#post_2340344
As I keep saying, THE LAW was written to punish anyone revealing anything about their being compelled by government to comply. They literally had/have no choice in this matter. Do it or face an uncertain future. Worse than the Mafia.
I don't think this is true. I'm sure some information is shared, but not to the extent that this story makes it out to be.
I'm Canadian, so I'm pretty neutral on the whole president thing, but I'm sorry. Bush was pretty terrible. Every president has their problems, and Barack is not that great either, but you have to admit that Bush was pretty dumb. He was completely clueless most of the time.
I feel like the quality of presidents continues to decline for you Americans. Clinton was pretty smart, made mistakes, sure, but is a smart man. (Not that Canada's gov is much better)
The biggest problem with political leaders is this: The only leader who can be trusted is the person who least wants the job.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timbit
I'm Canadian, so I'm pretty neutral on the whole president thing, but I'm sorry. Bush was pretty terrible. Every president has their problems, and Barack is not that great either, but you have to admit that Bush was pretty dumb. He was completely clueless most of the time.
I feel like the quality of presidents continues to decline for you Americans. Clinton was pretty smart, made mistakes, sure, but is a smart man. (Not that Canada's gov is much better)
Nope, sorry, I don't agree with that.
I'm certainly not claiming that Bush was a super genius, but Obama is not one bit smarter. I'm aware that the majority of media outlets have been censoring and not reporting on Obama's endless gaffes, so people who aren't informed (the average person) are not even aware of them, but they do exist. There are many of them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland
**** Obama.
This is what happens when you have a lawyer run your country.
You're right, Obama is a lawyer.
So was Lincoln, Jackson, Hayes, Johnson, Nixon, Teddy and Franklin Roosevelt, Clinton, Taft, Ford, i'm sure I'm missing some.
Wilson had a Ph.D. from Johns Hopkins..
Oh, I forgot. "Smart people are dumb".
*shakes head*
Well, except for GWB. He graduated from Harvard School of Business, and look where that got us, am I right fellas
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich
Obama OK'd the renewal of the Patriot Act. Everything under Bush that was bad and wrong has gotten more bad and wrong under Obama's terms.
In fact, all of these horrible practices suggest the war against terrorists has become a war against the American people.
Agreed and agreed.
I strongly disapprove of most instances where governments argue that important matters should be secret and information about them kept from the public.
Surely the absolute heart of democracy is the public being able to choose who should govern. Such choice should by necessity be informed-choice. If governments keep secret, matters which the voting public might wish to know about in order to make an informed-choice through elections, they are undermining the core concept of democracy.
Let's hope the article is mistaken about Apple's involvement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich
Obama OK'd the renewal of the Patriot Act. Everything under Bush that was bad and wrong has gotten more bad and wrong under Obama's terms.
In fact, all of these horrible practices suggest the war against terrorists has become a war against the American people.
Your gramma has gotten much worserer too.
So to sum up:
There'll be a lot of indignant ranting for about two more days then everyone will do precisely nothing.
That's how it works, yes?
YES Rayz,
that's exactly what happen in 2006 (people just forgot):
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-05-10-nsa_x.htm
Quote:
May 2006: The National Security Agency has been secretly collecting the phone call records of tens of millions of Americans, using data provided by AT&T, Verizon and BellSouth...