I don't think its a lot of people. The ugly screen colors distorts what you see so pictures you are taking don't look right. I can tell a Samsung photo on facebook a mile away. They look terrible. That is why with all the market share of Android, the iPhone is still far ahead in instagram post. People won't admit they hate it because they will feel stupid for buying it, but since they can claim to be in the in crowd they keep it.
The camera and the display on the phone are completely independent and have nothing to do with one another. What you are saying is really ludicrous. Now you could say that photos viewed on an S4 might not "look right" but the actual picture taken from the camera then sent to an iPhone will look fine. There is nothing wrong with the camera on the S4 and in fact it is superior to the one on the iPhone 5. And this is coming from a guy with an iPhone 5.
C'mon. We all see this before. Big number when they want to hype something then the number for a full quarter didn't match those initial spectacular numbers. Or are you easily fooled by Samsung?
Oh, like you mean Samsung's 8 consecutive record profit quarters?
I don't think the question is necessarily implying that Samsung isn't selling *any* units. If that was the case, clearly they wouldn't be able to sustain that. But it is a fair to question of those 20 million shipped phones, how many are in the hands of actual customers and how many are going to end up being sold at a huge discount to make room for the S5 when it starts shipping?
Also clearly Samsung (and others) have chosen to use shipped rather than sold for a particular reason, most likely because they feel it makes them look better against the competition. Apple has decided to use sold for their own reasons as well. Personally, I question the motives of using shipped rather than sold -- until something is sold, there is no revenue. Using shipped feels like they are propping up their numbers to make it look like they are doing better than they are. I'm not saying they are doing horrible and that they have no sales, just that they are probably making their numbers look bigger to keep investors (and competitors) in the dark about what their market actually looks like.
I'll bet the reason Samsung uses Shipped instead of Sold is because Shipped are the only numbers they know. I developed retail back office analysis software for many years and retailer's have absolutely abysmal store inventory data. Most inventory data is estimated and they have to go back and update actuals months later. Some Asian retailers are actually more advanced than American retailers, but I have not seen a single major retailer that has an accurate in-time corporate store retail inventory. This came as a major surprise to me. I'd have thought that after years of IT, inventory would have been the first thing to have been tackled.
Apple has its own stores, they are not too many and they are homogeneous, all owned by Apple. So they are able to report on sold sales in their own stores. From what I have read, the deals they have struck with the carriers, the ones they ship to them are essentially sold. The ones they sell elsewhere I believe Apple also reports as shipped.
Look, this whole sold vs shipped would have made sense years ago. The numbers may not accurately reflect the quarter, but you can't go month after month shipping to retailers if they are not being moved by the retailers. It's ridiculous to question Samsung's shipped numbers anymore.
C'mon. We all see this before. Big number when they want to hype something then the number for a full quarter didn't match those initial spectacular numbers. Or are you easily fooled by Samsung?
Quote:
Originally Posted by genovelle
They don't report them because they get them to hold them forever. They don't report what they actually sell in any month so they can easily make arrangements with the vendors to give them away at a greatly reduced price with the purchase of another Samsung phone.
No. What we have seen before, again and again, is that when a company "ships" but doesn't sell, they have to write down the inventory soon after. This is true even if they sell them at reduced prices or if they give them away. Ask RIM. Ask HP. Not only have we not seen write downs or significant reduced margins reported by Samsung, we have seen them report record profits. It is consistently estimated that Samsung is the "other" company making a good profit off smartphones.
If you want to believe the entire industry is conspiring to help Samsung perpetuate false numbers, then I cannot help you. Furthermore, Apple also reports shipment numbers. But how they report them is more transparent than how others do. If you don't understand this, you really are ill-prepared to debate.
Just because another company is succeeding doesn't take the shine off Apple which, by the way, doesn't need misguided amateurs to defend their honor.
Apple is a highly successful company. So is Samsung. That's a fact.
Just because another company is succeeding doesn't take the shine off Apple which, by the way, doesn't need misguided amateurs to defend their honor.
Apple is a highly successful company. So is Samsung. That's a fact.
A very level-headed and intelligent statement. It's unnerving to see the glee that people in either camp get whenever the slightest bit of bad news is posted against their "enemy."
Look, this whole sold vs shipped would have made sense years ago. The numbers may not accurately reflect the quarter, but you can't go month after month shipping to retailers if they are not being moved by the retailers. It's ridiculous to question Samsung's shipped numbers anymore.
Exactly. "Shipped v. sold" is today's version of the activation war, which some will still bring up now and then.
<p id="user_yui_3_10_0_1_1372944906910_631" style="color:rgb(24,24,24);font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;line-height:18.1875px;">Has Instagram published the iOS v. Android data? I would be interested in that.</p>
IG was available only on iOS for some time so those numbers would be lopsided. All the selfies I've seen so far were taken with a iPhone.
A very level-headed and intelligent statement. It's unnerving to see the glee that people in either camp get whenever the slightest bit of bad news is posted against their "enemy."
As if there were any moral equivalence between the two companies. If you really want to see a tasteless, conniving, copying chaebol win by making glitzy plasticware for tweakers, then you are in a sense working for an enemy.
As if there were any moral equivalence between the two companies. If you really want to see a tasteless, conniving, copying chaebol win by making glitzy plasticware for tweakers, then you are in a sense working for an enemy.
Exactly. "Shipped v. sold" is today's version of the activation war, which some will still bring up now and then.
It's time to move away from both arguments.
The only valid time to question Shipped vs Sold is after a big product launch, when a company is in full hype mode.
Especially when the hype is vague, referring to the "S4" which could include multiple lower end devices.
And even more especially when you hear rumors of the company slashing production the next quarter.
And even even more when you're not getting the numbers straight from the company, but from analysts or mysterious unnamed company executives.
Then I say it's valid.
My take? Samsung sold a LOT of S4s, but not nearly as much as they expected or manufactured. So we're hearing about production being cut and seeing giveaways and huge discounts being offered on a brand-new flagship phone. And now we see articles like this, to counter the negative energy.
And even more especially when you hear rumors of the company slashing production the next quarter.
And even even more when you're not getting the numbers straight from the company, but from analysts or mysterious unnamed company executives.
Then I say it's valid.
My take? Samsung sold a LOT of S4s, but not nearly as much as they expected or manufactured. So we're hearing about production being cut and seeing giveaways and huge discounts being offered on a brand-new flagship phone. And now we see articles like this, to counter the negative energy.
Very possible. But we also hear even more frequent rumors about Apple slashing production. Yet they keep selling more iPhones yoy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pendergast
The only valid time to question Shipped vs Sold is after a big product launch, when a company is in full hype mode.
Especially when the hype is vague, referring to the "S4" which could include multiple lower end devices.
I more and less agree. Lest we forget, Apple reports iPhone sales and not iPhone 5 sales. Yet iPhone 5 sales is quite healthy, I believe.
I have read here and there (particularly here) that market share does not matter. It's about profits. Let's wait for Samsung's next earnings report.
As if there were any moral equivalence between the two companies. If you really want to see a tasteless, conniving, copying chaebol win by making glitzy plasticware for tweakers, then you are in a sense working for an enemy.
It's not about winning or losing, morals or enmity. We are talking about facts and numbers.
Very possible. But we also hear even more frequent rumors about Apple slashing production. Yet they keep selling more iPhones yoy.
I more and less agree. Lest we forget, Apple reports iPhone sales and not iPhone 5 sales. Yet iPhone 5 sales is quite healthy, I believe.
I have read here and there (particularly here) that market share does not matter. It's about profits. Let's wait for Samsung's next earnings report.
When writing that, I actually thought it sounded a lot like the attitude that's surrounded Apple, and even what may have happened to Apple a bit. I think both have found the premium end of the market has softened.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by genovelle
I don't think its a lot of people. The ugly screen colors distorts what you see so pictures you are taking don't look right. I can tell a Samsung photo on facebook a mile away. They look terrible. That is why with all the market share of Android, the iPhone is still far ahead in instagram post. People won't admit they hate it because they will feel stupid for buying it, but since they can claim to be in the in crowd they keep it.
The camera and the display on the phone are completely independent and have nothing to do with one another. What you are saying is really ludicrous. Now you could say that photos viewed on an S4 might not "look right" but the actual picture taken from the camera then sent to an iPhone will look fine. There is nothing wrong with the camera on the S4 and in fact it is superior to the one on the iPhone 5. And this is coming from a guy with an iPhone 5.
Quote:
Originally Posted by matrix07
C'mon. We all see this before. Big number when they want to hype something then the number for a full quarter didn't match those initial spectacular numbers. Or are you easily fooled by Samsung?
Oh, like you mean Samsung's 8 consecutive record profit quarters?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmileyDude
I don't think the question is necessarily implying that Samsung isn't selling *any* units. If that was the case, clearly they wouldn't be able to sustain that. But it is a fair to question of those 20 million shipped phones, how many are in the hands of actual customers and how many are going to end up being sold at a huge discount to make room for the S5 when it starts shipping?
Also clearly Samsung (and others) have chosen to use shipped rather than sold for a particular reason, most likely because they feel it makes them look better against the competition. Apple has decided to use sold for their own reasons as well. Personally, I question the motives of using shipped rather than sold -- until something is sold, there is no revenue. Using shipped feels like they are propping up their numbers to make it look like they are doing better than they are. I'm not saying they are doing horrible and that they have no sales, just that they are probably making their numbers look bigger to keep investors (and competitors) in the dark about what their market actually looks like.
I'll bet the reason Samsung uses Shipped instead of Sold is because Shipped are the only numbers they know. I developed retail back office analysis software for many years and retailer's have absolutely abysmal store inventory data. Most inventory data is estimated and they have to go back and update actuals months later. Some Asian retailers are actually more advanced than American retailers, but I have not seen a single major retailer that has an accurate in-time corporate store retail inventory. This came as a major surprise to me. I'd have thought that after years of IT, inventory would have been the first thing to have been tackled.
Apple has its own stores, they are not too many and they are homogeneous, all owned by Apple. So they are able to report on sold sales in their own stores. From what I have read, the deals they have struck with the carriers, the ones they ship to them are essentially sold. The ones they sell elsewhere I believe Apple also reports as shipped.
Look, this whole sold vs shipped would have made sense years ago. The numbers may not accurately reflect the quarter, but you can't go month after month shipping to retailers if they are not being moved by the retailers. It's ridiculous to question Samsung's shipped numbers anymore.
Quote:
Originally Posted by matrix07
C'mon. We all see this before. Big number when they want to hype something then the number for a full quarter didn't match those initial spectacular numbers. Or are you easily fooled by Samsung?
Quote:
Originally Posted by genovelle
They don't report them because they get them to hold them forever. They don't report what they actually sell in any month so they can easily make arrangements with the vendors to give them away at a greatly reduced price with the purchase of another Samsung phone.
No. What we have seen before, again and again, is that when a company "ships" but doesn't sell, they have to write down the inventory soon after. This is true even if they sell them at reduced prices or if they give them away. Ask RIM. Ask HP. Not only have we not seen write downs or significant reduced margins reported by Samsung, we have seen them report record profits. It is consistently estimated that Samsung is the "other" company making a good profit off smartphones.
If you want to believe the entire industry is conspiring to help Samsung perpetuate false numbers, then I cannot help you. Furthermore, Apple also reports shipment numbers. But how they report them is more transparent than how others do. If you don't understand this, you really are ill-prepared to debate.
Just because another company is succeeding doesn't take the shine off Apple which, by the way, doesn't need misguided amateurs to defend their honor.
Apple is a highly successful company. So is Samsung. That's a fact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent
Just because another company is succeeding doesn't take the shine off Apple which, by the way, doesn't need misguided amateurs to defend their honor.
Apple is a highly successful company. So is Samsung. That's a fact.
A very level-headed and intelligent statement. It's unnerving to see the glee that people in either camp get whenever the slightest bit of bad news is posted against their "enemy."
I don't know how valid Samsung's numbers are, but there are a hell of a lot GS3 and GS4's out there. I'm seeing them as much as iPhones these days.
Quote:
Originally Posted by os2baba
Look, this whole sold vs shipped would have made sense years ago. The numbers may not accurately reflect the quarter, but you can't go month after month shipping to retailers if they are not being moved by the retailers. It's ridiculous to question Samsung's shipped numbers anymore.
Exactly. "Shipped v. sold" is today's version of the activation war, which some will still bring up now and then.
It's time to move away from both arguments.
Quote:
Originally Posted by genovelle
That is why with all the market share of Android, the iPhone is still far ahead in instagram post.
Has Instagram published the iOS v. Android data? I would be interested in that.
IG was available only on iOS for some time so those numbers would be lopsided. All the selfies I've seen so far were taken with a iPhone.
As if there were any moral equivalence between the two companies. If you really want to see a tasteless, conniving, copying chaebol win by making glitzy plasticware for tweakers, then you are in a sense working for an enemy.
The only valid time to question Shipped vs Sold is after a big product launch, when a company is in full hype mode.
Especially when the hype is vague, referring to the "S4" which could include multiple lower end devices.
And even more especially when you hear rumors of the company slashing production the next quarter.
And even even more when you're not getting the numbers straight from the company, but from analysts or mysterious unnamed company executives.
Then I say it's valid.
My take? Samsung sold a LOT of S4s, but not nearly as much as they expected or manufactured. So we're hearing about production being cut and seeing giveaways and huge discounts being offered on a brand-new flagship phone. And now we see articles like this, to counter the negative energy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pendergast
And even more especially when you hear rumors of the company slashing production the next quarter.
And even even more when you're not getting the numbers straight from the company, but from analysts or mysterious unnamed company executives.
Then I say it's valid.
My take? Samsung sold a LOT of S4s, but not nearly as much as they expected or manufactured. So we're hearing about production being cut and seeing giveaways and huge discounts being offered on a brand-new flagship phone. And now we see articles like this, to counter the negative energy.
Very possible. But we also hear even more frequent rumors about Apple slashing production. Yet they keep selling more iPhones yoy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pendergast
The only valid time to question Shipped vs Sold is after a big product launch, when a company is in full hype mode.
Especially when the hype is vague, referring to the "S4" which could include multiple lower end devices.
I more and less agree. Lest we forget, Apple reports iPhone sales and not iPhone 5 sales. Yet iPhone 5 sales is quite healthy, I believe.
I have read here and there (particularly here) that market share does not matter. It's about profits. Let's wait for Samsung's next earnings report.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur
As if there were any moral equivalence between the two companies. If you really want to see a tasteless, conniving, copying chaebol win by making glitzy plasticware for tweakers, then you are in a sense working for an enemy.
It's not about winning or losing, morals or enmity. We are talking about facts and numbers.
He wasn't. He was talking about our reaction to facts and numbers. Can you spot the difference?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur
He wasn't. He was talking about our reaction to facts and numbers. Can you spot the difference?
Not being as intelligent, well-informed, objective, athletic, literate and good-looking as you, I can't.
When writing that, I actually thought it sounded a lot like the attitude that's surrounded Apple, and even what may have happened to Apple a bit. I think both have found the premium end of the market has softened.