I have a tough time buying a product when most of my product support is through a non-profit organization that isn't the mfg who's product I'm using. That to me is just relying on a untrustworthy source. Call me old fashioned, but I am always a little nervous when relying on some kid's YouTube video on how to update my smartphone because the mfg won't release an official version of it.
Actually those kids as you put it are the reason why OSX has support for things like Nvidia and ATI video cards. If it wasn't for the Linux drivers, Apple would probably just be using an Intel card, which the drivers were also designed by a team of Linux developers and then ported to OSX coincidentally. I would take an army of open source scripts kiddies over any in house solution ran by suits any day of the week. Without the ingenuity and hard work of people giving up their free time to come together and program a lot of software and OS's we love and use would have never come to light. The back bone of the internet is practically ran on Linux, the day's of the large UNIX mainframes are long gone.
99% android devices are vulnerable, but 75% of them either don't connect to internet or can't even download apps (talking about low end, old android os devices in third world countries). So the risk is not that big anyway...lol, not 25% of android high end devices are at risk. Right, fandroids? LOL
So then don't use it, problem solved. Now there is no need to pass around silly comments.
Actually those kids as you put it are the reason why OSX has support for things like Nvidia and ATI video cards. If it wasn't for the Linux drivers, Apple would probably just be using an Intel card, which the drivers were also designed by a team of Linux developers and then ported to OSX coincidentally. I would take an army of open source scripts kiddies over any in house solution ran by suits any day of the week. Without the ingenuity and hard work of people giving up their free time to come together and program a lot of software and OS's we love and use would have never come to light. The back bone of the internet is practically ran on Linux, the day's of the large UNIX mainframes are long gone.
False!
Both amd and nvidia write the drivers for apple. There have been numerous articles and interviews over the years.
Okay, if you say so. I was under the assumption that Apple started with the Linux code. I guess I was missed informed. Can anyone provide any links about this.
Who sanctioned XDA to release these so-called ROMs to update their devices? Who warrants these ROM updates?
What seems so funny is that Google buys Android, each mfg take Google's release and then modifies it to suit their needs for a specific device and now you have to circumvent the device's mfg AND Google to get you OS updated? If these updates are NOT warranted by the mfg of the device you bought, this may be a MASSIVE HUGE LAWSUIT.
This is a MAJOR fail if XDA ROMs are not warranted by the mfg of the device you use and this whole thing is how users are supposed to update their devices.
I can see the lawyers lining up. Android Central is a separate company from the mfg of the device you bought and they aren't Google, they should not make a statement on how you should update your device unless it is sanctioned by Google (who freaking OWNS Android) and the mfg of every Android device that's on the market.
At least that's my take on this Consumer fiasco
Any competent lawyers out there that wish to make a comment?
The ONLY qualified source of information regarding how to upgrade a device is the mfg of the device, because THEY have to honor the warranty and explain what is covered and what isn't. Again, if these ROOTED phone is not warranted, people have the right know.
I'd wait until the mfg of the device you own has made a qualified response to this mess before you update your device.
Who sanctioned XDA to release these so-called ROMs to update their devices? Who warrants these ROM updates?
What seems so funny is that Google buys Android, each mfg take Google's release and then modifies it to suit their needs for a specific device and now you have to circumvent the device's mfg AND Google to get you OS updated? If these updates are NOT warranted by the mfg of the device you bought, this may be a MASSIVE HUGE LAWSUIT.
This is a MAJOR fail if XDA ROMs are not warranted by the mfg of the device you use and this whole thing is how users are supposed to update their devices.
I can see the lawyers lining up. Android Central is a separate company from the mfg of the device you bought and they aren't Google, they should not make a statement on how you should update your device unless it is sanctioned by Google (who freaking OWNS Android) and the mfg of every Android device that's on the market.
I don't understand what you are working yourself into a frenzy about. As far as I know, XDA is a modder community which operates independently of Google or any OEM. Software from XDA is not sanctioned by any corporation, and its members are well aware of that. People who mod their devices using XDA software do so because they can. They know they aren't getting official warranted updates through XDA.
Android system updates have always been issued through Google (for nexus devices) or the OEMs. Consequently, most non-Nexus devices will see few, if any, updates. And since most android users use their phones as featurephones, they probably don't care. They probably don't even know that their phone runs an operating system. The people who both care enough and are tech savvy enough to install custom ROMs aren't going to sue anyone if they brick their devices.
Skynet is coming folks and having an iPhone won't help us since the whole phone network and internet will be infested with this. All its going to take is for one really ingenious denial of service attack/meltdown and there nothing stopping it. You won't be able to use you credit card, buy groceries, pay for gas etc cuz all these payment systems will be unavailable. Then the Govt will have en excuse to take it over. As George Carlin was so found of saying "We live in a crazy fucked up world" and you get a front row seat, personally I can't wait until the whole effing thing falls apart, bring it on"
I don't understand what you are working yourself into a frenzy about. As far as I know, XDA is a modder community which operates independently of Google or any OEM. Software from XDA is not sanctioned by any corporation, and its members are well aware of that. People who mod their devices using XDA software do so because they can. They know they aren't getting official warranted updates through XDA.
Android system updates have always been issued through Google (for nexus devices) or the OEMs. Consequently, most non-Nexus devices will see few, if any, updates. And since most android users use their phones as featurephones, they probably don't care. They probably don't even know that their phone runs an operating system. The people who both care enough and are tech savvy enough to install custom ROMs aren't going to sue anyone if they brick their devices.
Sounds like you are trying to justify a F"d up platform making excuses for buying into biggest bag of crap. REAL companies would not let this OS strategy happen. I still can't believe that these companies should sell anything that isn't running the latest OS and that updates come out in a timely manner. Selling Gingerbread phones or even Ice Cream Sandwich phones once Jelly Bean was released is a complete joke. Relying on a modder community for support is just stupid. They aren't going to buy you a new phone if their crap bricks your phone. Things can get corrupted very easily. A "modder" is very similar to a hacker and I would trust either. Have a nice day. SUCKER.
Who sanctioned XDA to release these so-called ROMs to update their devices? Who warrants these ROM updates?
What seems so funny is that Google buys Android, each mfg take Google's release and then modifies it to suit their needs for a specific device and now you have to circumvent the device's mfg AND Google to get you OS updated? If these updates are NOT warranted by the mfg of the device you bought, this may be a MASSIVE HUGE LAWSUIT.
This is a MAJOR fail if XDA ROMs are not warranted by the mfg of the device you use and this whole thing is how users are supposed to update their devices.
I can see the lawyers lining up. Android Central is a separate company from the mfg of the device you bought and they aren't Google, they should not make a statement on how you should update your device unless it is sanctioned by Google (who freaking OWNS Android) and the mfg of every Android device that's on the market.
At least that's my take on this Consumer fiasco
Any competent lawyers out there that wish to make a comment?
The ONLY qualified source of information regarding how to upgrade a device is the mfg of the device, because THEY have to honor the warranty and explain what is covered and what isn't. Again, if these ROOTED phone is not warranted, people have the right know.
I'd wait until the mfg of the device you own has made a qualified response to this mess before you update your device.
Dude, every single ROM is on a forum post. The OP on that forum post ALWAYS posts a warning saying to install the ROM at your own risk. Everyone that uses XDA ROMs and Roots their phones has plenty of warnings before they mess around with their device. Before rooting your phone, they warn you 20 times that it will void your warranty. Just like everyone knows jailbreaking an iPhone will void your warranty.
Who are the manufacturers going to sue? The consumers? The developers for modding an OPEN SOURCE SOFTWARE?
Android Central.. lol, a blog? For what, for saying "Oh hey, check out Carbon ROM, they modified the OS and added some neat features".
Just like Amazon and Alyiun OS was able to change Android, any XDA developer can change Android and make it to whatever they want. Any device that a consumer purchases is rightfully theirs to do whatever they want to it. I can put Alyiun OS on my Nexus 4 if I wanted. I can flash Miui (the chinese version of Android) if I wanted. It's equivalent of Linux where you can get Ubuntu, or Fedora, or Linux Mint, or any other "flavor" of linux you feel like tasting that day.
Dude, every single ROM is on a forum post. The OP on that forum post ALWAYS posts a warning saying to install the ROM at your own risk. Everyone that uses XDA ROMs and Roots their phones has plenty of warnings before they mess around with their device. Before rooting your phone, they warn you 20 times that it will void your warranty. Just like everyone knows jailbreaking an iPhone will void your warranty.
Who are the manufacturers going to sue? The consumers? The developers for modding an OPEN SOURCE SOFTWARE?
Android Central.. lol, a blog? For what, for saying "Oh hey, check out Carbon ROM, they modified the OS and added some neat features".
Just like Amazon and Alyiun OS was able to change Android, any XDA developer can change Android and make it to whatever they want. Any device that a consumer purchases is rightfully theirs to do whatever they want to it. I can put Alyiun OS on my Nexus 4 if I wanted. I can flash Miui (the chinese version of Android) if I wanted. It's equivalent of Linux where you can get Ubuntu, or Fedora, or Linux Mint, or any other "flavor" of linux you feel like tasting that day.
Whatever. Putting a flavor of Linux on a computer can't brick the computer, so the user can always get the thing back to the original state. With these phones, there are ways that it can render your phone un-useable and these cell carriers may not want them on their networks, the OEMs may not want their customers doing this, etc. It's a little different than a traditional desktop computer running Linux or Ubuntu, etc. Which I think is dumb, but I guess if you like experimenting that's your trip.
Neither of us are attorneys. So, it would NOT surprise me if Google, and the other ranging from OEMs to Cell Carriers got this crap taken down. Open Source? Come on, you guys are playing with someone else's intellectual property. If you took Google's OEM software and modified it for your own smartphone design, then that's how it's intended, but I don't think Google had planned for this to take this route and I don't think the OEMs thought or intended this to take place as well.
I just would not buy a product and rely on some group of idiots to upgrade my phone because the mfg can't get their collective act together. I'll just buy a product that is much better at releasing updates and does a better job at fixing problems and removing the possibility for getting infected with malware as much as possible. In my book, it's better to deal with a real company that knows how to develop a OS platform that's supported by the mfg and not come rouge group of selfish, childish little pricks trying to circumvent the system for some excuse to run a POS OS that shouldn't be released in the manner that it is. I knew Android was a joke over a year ago and you and this XDA group is just validating what I already suspected. Just a mess of BS.
Doing something is one thing, but doing something that voiding a warranty not not approved by the OEM mfg. is something else.
Nothing you can say will convince me that this Android platform is even worth researching as a possible product purchase. NOTHING. I'm glad Apple is there. It gives me a lot of sense of satisfaction that I can rely on a company that doesn't force us to rely on some group of rouges trying to circumvent the system.
Grow up. The Android platform is a joke. Wah, wah wah. Joke's on you.
Dude, every single ROM is on a forum post. The OP on that forum post ALWAYS posts a warning saying to install the ROM at your own risk. Everyone that uses XDA ROMs and Roots their phones has plenty of warnings before they mess around with their device. Before rooting your phone, they warn you 20 times that it will void your warranty. Just like everyone knows jailbreaking an iPhone will void your warranty.
Who are the manufacturers going to sue? The consumers? The developers for modding an OPEN SOURCE SOFTWARE?
Android Central.. lol, a blog? For what, for saying "Oh hey, check out Carbon ROM, they modified the OS and added some neat features".
Just like Amazon and Alyiun OS was able to change Android, any XDA developer can change Android and make it to whatever they want. Any device that a consumer purchases is rightfully theirs to do whatever they want to it. I can put Alyiun OS on my Nexus 4 if I wanted. I can flash Miui (the chinese version of Android) if I wanted. It's equivalent of Linux where you can get Ubuntu, or Fedora, or Linux Mint, or any other "flavor" of linux you feel like tasting that day.
It's OPEN SOURCE to a certain extent. I would think that Samsung, HTC's, etc. ROM are THEIR intellectual property and that modifying them might actually be illegal or they might be able to have laws changed to make this illegal. Again, I'm not an attorney, but if the OEMs are not sanctioning what XDA is doing and they feel that it's not in the best interest to protect their modified OEM versions of Android to run on their phones, then they actually might have a case. I don't know what they are going to do about it. But if I were the OEMs, i'd be PISSED OFF. I'm sure the cell phone carriers might be nervous as well.
Remember, Google OWNS ANDROID. Google can make this stuff a limited open source. I haven't read Google's OEM agreement on whether or not this is actually allowed by other than the OEMs on their own hardware. Don't be surprised if XDA get shut down. OK. Seriously.
Can someone get OS X on a DIY PC? Yeah. Is it legal? NO. Is it supported? NO. Then it's stupid to do it.
Sounds like you are trying to justify a F"d up platform making excuses for buying into biggest bag of crap. REAL companies would not let this OS strategy happen. I still can't believe that these companies should sell anything that isn't running the latest OS and that updates come out in a timely manner. Selling Gingerbread phones or even Ice Cream Sandwich phones once Jelly Bean was released is a complete joke. Relying on a modder community for support is just stupid. They aren't going to buy you a new phone if their crap bricks your phone. Things can get corrupted very easily. A "modder" is very similar to a hacker and I would trust either. Have a nice day. SUCKER.
Actually the Oppo Find 5 and other Oppo phones have community driven updates. The company relies on community developers to help them with updates and releases.
I don't understand your synical view about modders. When you have 20-30 developers, if one developer creates a ROM that has spyware or other code with criminal intent, the other developers will find it and that developer's reputation will get tarnished. I can understand if you might be wary about the amount of "rigorous" testing they do before releasing an update, and maybe you might be concerned if your phone bricks. Then in that case, you should choose your phone wisely, and if you're into the latest and greatest, go with Google Edition phones, or choose manufacturers that have good track record of updating their OS (like Oppo)
I don't get how someone is a SUCKER for wanting to take control of their device. If you want Apple to dictate what apps you are allowed to download, then that's fine. You're a communist oriented thinker. You are happy being controlled and sandboxed. You're a Yes Man. Apple tells you to jump and you say how high. That's fine, but some people prefer to have some choice, and that's what Android provides.
It's OPEN SOURCE to a certain extent. I would think that Samsung, HTC's, etc. ROM are THEIR intellectual property and that modifying them might actually be illegal or they might be able to have laws changed to make this illegal. Again, I'm not an attorney, but if the OEMs are not sanctioning what XDA is doing and they feel that it's not in the best interest to protect their modified OEM versions of Android to run on their phones, then they actually might have a case. I don't know what they are going to do about it. But if I were the OEMs, i'd be PISSED OFF. I'm sure the cell phone carriers might be nervous as well.
Remember, Google OWNS ANDROID. Google can make this stuff a limited open source. I haven't read Google's OEM agreement on whether or not this is actually allowed by other than the OEMs on their own hardware. Don't be surprised if XDA get shut down. OK. Seriously.
Can someone get OS X on a DIY PC? Yeah. Is it legal? NO. Is it supported? NO. Then it's stupid to do it.
Dude, OS X isn't open source, only Darwin (the kernel). Do you even know what that means?
And Samsung, HTC, and other manufacturer ROMs are not intellectual property, they're Skins, or a Theme/Launcher, like shown Here. The Icons might be their property, but not the implementation of the UI. And HTC Sense software does NOT work on any NON HTC phone. Same as Samsung, Touchwiz ONLY WORKS on Samsung phones (That are compatible). Most of their software are embedded with their hardware drivers, for example Samsung's hand swipe features don't work on non-samsung phones, even if you install a Touchwiz UI ROM. Same as the S-Pen functionalities. If you put a ROM on a Note 2, it will lose the S-Pen functionality, because it's only available using Touchwiz. Those features are manufacturer specific and CAN'T be modded/utilized without permission from the manufacturer. They have to actually give you the source code for those functionalities.
Actually the Oppo Find 5 and other Oppo phones have community driven updates. The company relies on community developers to help them with updates and releases.
I don't understand your synical view about modders. When you have 20-30 developers, if one developer creates a ROM that has spyware or other code with criminal intent, the other developers will find it and that developer's reputation will get tarnished. I can understand if you might be wary about the amount of "rigorous" testing they do before releasing an update, and maybe you might be concerned if your phone bricks. Then in that case, you should choose your phone wisely, and if you're into the latest and greatest, go with Google Edition phones, or choose manufacturers that have good track record of updating their OS (like Oppo)
I don't get how someone is a SUCKER for wanting to take control of their device. If you want Apple to dictate what apps you are allowed to download, then that's fine. You're a communist oriented thinker. You are happy being controlled and sandboxed. You're a Yes Man. Apple tells you to jump and you say how high. That's fine, but some people prefer to have some choice, and that's what Android provides.
So what. Maybe that's why Oppo phones aren't selling well.
Someone wanting to take control of their device? What is THAT all about. I choose to buy what products I want and use it how it's intended and do what I can to make sure that I'm not getting malware. What's wrong with that? The second you get malware which you may not even know you have, someone else takes control over YOUR data. Ooops.
I am NOT a communist oriented thinker. Apple or whomever that doesn't buy into the Open Source community BS is just trying to develop a platform and be able to support it and hopefully try to protect the consumer from malware. That's how they are doing things. I buy a Mac with the intentions of using OS X. If I need to run Windows on it, then Apple, with Microsoft's blessing allows me to run Windows on it. But computers are COMPLETELY different than a smartphone. Cell carriers are involved and they want to make sure that whatever code is running on these devices is kosher for them to bless. it's just using some intelligence to make things work and for people to get good support, etc.
What these companies are trying to do is to make sure that it is less likely to install something illegal or open up their systems to be infested by malware and to gie a consistent user experience that the company can better support the user. How does Apple dictate what apps I'm allowed to download? All they are looking for is some bad code that compromises the customer's device. Nothing wrong with that. That's trying to PROTECT the consumer ya idiot.
A choice? Of what? A platform that has more malware than any other mobile device platform? Wow, how dumb is that?
You are making childish excuses to not work within the system. REAL childish. Grow up. You obviously sound like someone that doesn't like rules.
You know what happens in a society that doesn't have rules or people don't follow rules? Anarchy. You sound like an anarchist. Anarchist are people that avoid rules, eventually they get caught doing something illegal. Again, grow up.
Oh someone's reputation gets tarnished. And how the F are you going to know who that is because these modders can change their screen names. Data can get corrupted at any point in time even without the intent of the developer or the user. From reading the XDA site, someone mentioned about 4 ways they knew of how a phone could get bricked and they mentioned that there could be other ways for that to happen. Doesn't sound like a rational way to deal with a smartphone.
Obvisously, You are NEVER going to change my mind. I will NEVER buy an Android ANYTHING, so I don't have to worry about the BS that goes along with it. But you have to keep up to date on that crap, its more things YOU have to worry about.
Dude, OS X isn't open source, only Darwin (the kernel). Do you even know what that means?
And Samsung, HTC, and other manufacturer ROMs are not intellectual property, they're Skins, or a Theme/Launcher, like shown Here. The Icons might be their property, but not the implementation of the UI. And HTC Sense software does NOT work on any NON HTC phone. Same as Samsung, Touchwiz ONLY WORKS on Samsung phones (That are compatible). Most of their software are embedded with their hardware drivers, for example Samsung's hand swipe features don't work on non-samsung phones, even if you install a Touchwiz UI ROM. Same as the S-Pen functionalities. If you put a ROM on a Note 2, it will lose the S-Pen functionality, because it's only available using Touchwiz. Those features are manufacturer specific and CAN'T be modded/utilized without permission from the manufacturer. They have to actually give you the source code for those functionalities.
I'm well aware of what open source can mean as there are certain things that will make something open source at certain levels. Is Windows Open Source? Does Microsoft release the Source Code for you to modify?
If the company doesn't mind you doing it and they'll still warrant the product,then that's the right of the mfg. But I don't believe that Google intended these phones to be hacked and modified in the way they are being done. From my perspective, until Google makes an official announcement, I believe that Google wants people to take the code, modify it for their own hardware and market and support a product much in the way that HTC, Samsung are doing it and NOT for some idiot customer to go around the way the device mfg's wishes and reload something else in it's place that is not supported by that device mfg.
I think it's Open Source to a certain extent. Obviously, you need to talk to the device mfg and ask them if what you are doing is in violation of any of their IP. And you might have to also contact the cell phone carrier to see if it's in violation of their service agreement. Have you done that?
Dude, OS X isn't open source, only Darwin (the kernel). Do you even know what that means?
And Samsung, HTC, and other manufacturer ROMs are not intellectual property, they're Skins, or a Theme/Launcher, like shown Here. The Icons might be their property, but not the implementation of the UI. And HTC Sense software does NOT work on any NON HTC phone. Same as Samsung, Touchwiz ONLY WORKS on Samsung phones (That are compatible). Most of their software are embedded with their hardware drivers, for example Samsung's hand swipe features don't work on non-samsung phones, even if you install a Touchwiz UI ROM. Same as the S-Pen functionalities. If you put a ROM on a Note 2, it will lose the S-Pen functionality, because it's only available using Touchwiz. Those features are manufacturer specific and CAN'T be modded/utilized without permission from the manufacturer. They have to actually give you the source code for those functionalities.
Sounds like a mess to me. enjoy your bag of hurt. Now, go to your XDA, Android Central site and quit bothering people that have no interest in Android.
I don't go on Android Central or XDA's site bothering them, so quit bothering us.
Sounds like you are trying to justify a F"d up platform making excuses for buying into biggest bag of crap.
No one is trying to justify anything. You were sounding the alarm about impending XDA lawsuits. The iOS jailbreak community has a far greater chance of being sued compared to XDA.
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank
Neither of us are attorneys. So, it would NOT surprise me if Google, and the other ranging from OEMs to Cell Carriers got this crap taken down. Open Source? Come on, you guys are playing with someone else's intellectual property. If you took Google's OEM software and modified it for your own smartphone design, then that's how it's intended, but I don't think Google had planned for this to take this route and I don't think the OEMs thought or intended this to take place as well.
Community-developed mods like Cyanogenmod are not modifying proprietary OEM code. They draw from the Android Open Source Project, whose source code is licensed expressly to permit modification. I'm not an attorney either, but the meaning of the phrase
"You may reproduce and distribute copies of the Work or Derivative Works thereof in any medium, with or without modifications, and in Source or Object form, provided that You meet the following conditions:"
seems quite clear. The terms "Work" and "Derivative Works" are also defined in that document. I would be interested to hear your theory about how one could get sued for deriving from Apache-licensed code.
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank
But if I were the OEMs, i'd be PISSED OFF.
A rational OEM would be happy that people are doing things with their devices that might void their warranty. Since repairs under warranty are performed at the manufacturer's expense, why wouldn't an OEM want to escape from that contract?
No one is trying to justify anything. You were sounding the alarm about impending XDA lawsuits. The iOS jailbreak community has a far greater chance of being sued compared to XDA.
Community-developed mods like Cyanogenmod are not modifying proprietary OEM code. They draw from the Android Open Source Project, whose source code is licensed expressly to permit modification. I'm not an attorney either, but the meaning of the phrase
seems quite clear. The terms "Work" and "Derivative Works" are also defined in that document. I would be interested to hear your theory about how one could get sued for deriving from Apache-licensed code.
A rational OEM would be happy that people are doing things with their devices that might void their warranty. Repairs under warranty are performed at the manufacturer's expense, so why wouldn't an OEM be glad to escape from that contract?
Yeah, people are. They are trying to justify that people get an update that the mfg refuses to post on an older phone to have 4.2.2. If I were a mfg of a phone, I would only sell product that can run the latest OS and give people at least 3 years worth of OS updates in the process if I could.. And get the updates in the customer's hands quickly. In addition do whatever it takes to give the customers a safe place to get apps that don't have malware. Do whatever they can to prevent malware even if it's done through an email distribution or going to some loser's site that does this. I know it's hard to do, but some companies have managed to not have malware attacks register with these security companies. I certainly wouldn't force my customers to get OS support and updates through a 3rd party group of people that don't get paid for their time, and there is no accountability should the hardware get bricked because of doing something like what XDA is doing.
What does Apache have to do with Android OS's that are on these phones that need to get updated?
That's the point. The OEMs don't want to spend the money it takes to do a proper job in supporting their own products, so they'll let unpaid volunteers do that for them. Great. It's called CUSTOMER SATISFACTION, INTEGRITY, GOOD BUSINESS PRACTICES, something the Android OEMS and Google lack. That's why Apple has high customer satisfaction issues. Yeah, I wonder how many phones within a 2 year period the average Android user buys because in order to get a new version OS, they have to buy a new phone. I have an iPhone 4, and it works great. The battery does fine and it hasn't crashed ONCE and I've never had any problems with it where I needed to have it replaced, OS reset. If I have a question about the OS, I can swing into the local Apple store and there's plenty of qualified people to assist me, FREE O CHARGE. and when iOS 7 comes out, that will be the third major OS update on this product, so it can theoretically last until iOS 8 comes out which is a year after iOS 7's release, which I'll probably have to replace it if I want to always run the latest OS and still want to keep my phone a little longer past the 2 year contract. That's how it SHOULD be regardless of brand. I shouldn't be forced into going to a third party to get an OS release because of security reasons and the mfg is too lazy or cheap to update the OS like they SHOULD. It makes me not want to buy another product from that company since if I do, I'll have to rely on someone else after a year's period. If that's the game Android OEMS want to play, they may not get return business unless you are one of the 5 Million registered XDA users that don't mind. That's not a high rate of people buying into XDA's concept. Remember, there's 900 Million Android phones and only 5 Million are supportive of XDA? Maybe the Android platform only really has about 5 Million constantly buying Android phones and there aren't 900 million users, only 5 Million with their HUGE collection of Android phones. How many Android phones have you bought in the last 1 1/2? I've only bought one smartphone and it works just fine. I've run into a handful of Android geeks that are into rooting their phones, etc. and they always seem to be experts on just about every model Android phone to the point where they have owned them. Seems like an expensive hobby collecting Android phones. Maybe most of them are just laying around not being used collecting dust.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank
I have a tough time buying a product when most of my product support is through a non-profit organization that isn't the mfg who's product I'm using. That to me is just relying on a untrustworthy source. Call me old fashioned, but I am always a little nervous when relying on some kid's YouTube video on how to update my smartphone because the mfg won't release an official version of it.
Actually those kids as you put it are the reason why OSX has support for things like Nvidia and ATI video cards. If it wasn't for the Linux drivers, Apple would probably just be using an Intel card, which the drivers were also designed by a team of Linux developers and then ported to OSX coincidentally. I would take an army of open source scripts kiddies over any in house solution ran by suits any day of the week. Without the ingenuity and hard work of people giving up their free time to come together and program a lot of software and OS's we love and use would have never come to light. The back bone of the internet is practically ran on Linux, the day's of the large UNIX mainframes are long gone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fallenjt
99% android devices are vulnerable, but 75% of them either don't connect to internet or can't even download apps (talking about low end, old android os devices in third world countries). So the risk is not that big anyway...lol, not 25% of android high end devices are at risk. Right, fandroids? LOL
So then don't use it, problem solved. Now there is no need to pass around silly comments.
False!
Both amd and nvidia write the drivers for apple. There have been numerous articles and interviews over the years.
Since when? Apple wrote ATI's drivers years back.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Since when? Apple wrote ATI's drivers years back.
Okay, if you say so. I was under the assumption that Apple started with the Linux code. I guess I was missed informed. Can anyone provide any links about this.
Who sanctioned XDA to release these so-called ROMs to update their devices? Who warrants these ROM updates?
What seems so funny is that Google buys Android, each mfg take Google's release and then modifies it to suit their needs for a specific device and now you have to circumvent the device's mfg AND Google to get you OS updated? If these updates are NOT warranted by the mfg of the device you bought, this may be a MASSIVE HUGE LAWSUIT.
This is a MAJOR fail if XDA ROMs are not warranted by the mfg of the device you use and this whole thing is how users are supposed to update their devices.
I can see the lawyers lining up. Android Central is a separate company from the mfg of the device you bought and they aren't Google, they should not make a statement on how you should update your device unless it is sanctioned by Google (who freaking OWNS Android) and the mfg of every Android device that's on the market.
At least that's my take on this Consumer fiasco
Any competent lawyers out there that wish to make a comment?
The ONLY qualified source of information regarding how to upgrade a device is the mfg of the device, because THEY have to honor the warranty and explain what is covered and what isn't. Again, if these ROOTED phone is not warranted, people have the right know.
I'd wait until the mfg of the device you own has made a qualified response to this mess before you update your device.
This malicious code must be from the NSA. Who else would create such an application?
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank
Who sanctioned XDA to release these so-called ROMs to update their devices? Who warrants these ROM updates?
What seems so funny is that Google buys Android, each mfg take Google's release and then modifies it to suit their needs for a specific device and now you have to circumvent the device's mfg AND Google to get you OS updated? If these updates are NOT warranted by the mfg of the device you bought, this may be a MASSIVE HUGE LAWSUIT.
This is a MAJOR fail if XDA ROMs are not warranted by the mfg of the device you use and this whole thing is how users are supposed to update their devices.
I can see the lawyers lining up. Android Central is a separate company from the mfg of the device you bought and they aren't Google, they should not make a statement on how you should update your device unless it is sanctioned by Google (who freaking OWNS Android) and the mfg of every Android device that's on the market.
I don't understand what you are working yourself into a frenzy about. As far as I know, XDA is a modder community which operates independently of Google or any OEM. Software from XDA is not sanctioned by any corporation, and its members are well aware of that. People who mod their devices using XDA software do so because they can. They know they aren't getting official warranted updates through XDA.
Android system updates have always been issued through Google (for nexus devices) or the OEMs. Consequently, most non-Nexus devices will see few, if any, updates. And since most android users use their phones as featurephones, they probably don't care. They probably don't even know that their phone runs an operating system. The people who both care enough and are tech savvy enough to install custom ROMs aren't going to sue anyone if they brick their devices.
Quote:
Originally Posted by d4NjvRzf
I don't understand what you are working yourself into a frenzy about. As far as I know, XDA is a modder community which operates independently of Google or any OEM. Software from XDA is not sanctioned by any corporation, and its members are well aware of that. People who mod their devices using XDA software do so because they can. They know they aren't getting official warranted updates through XDA.
Android system updates have always been issued through Google (for nexus devices) or the OEMs. Consequently, most non-Nexus devices will see few, if any, updates. And since most android users use their phones as featurephones, they probably don't care. They probably don't even know that their phone runs an operating system. The people who both care enough and are tech savvy enough to install custom ROMs aren't going to sue anyone if they brick their devices.
Sounds like you are trying to justify a F"d up platform making excuses for buying into biggest bag of crap. REAL companies would not let this OS strategy happen. I still can't believe that these companies should sell anything that isn't running the latest OS and that updates come out in a timely manner. Selling Gingerbread phones or even Ice Cream Sandwich phones once Jelly Bean was released is a complete joke. Relying on a modder community for support is just stupid. They aren't going to buy you a new phone if their crap bricks your phone. Things can get corrupted very easily. A "modder" is very similar to a hacker and I would trust either. Have a nice day. SUCKER.
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank
Who sanctioned XDA to release these so-called ROMs to update their devices? Who warrants these ROM updates?
What seems so funny is that Google buys Android, each mfg take Google's release and then modifies it to suit their needs for a specific device and now you have to circumvent the device's mfg AND Google to get you OS updated? If these updates are NOT warranted by the mfg of the device you bought, this may be a MASSIVE HUGE LAWSUIT.
This is a MAJOR fail if XDA ROMs are not warranted by the mfg of the device you use and this whole thing is how users are supposed to update their devices.
I can see the lawyers lining up. Android Central is a separate company from the mfg of the device you bought and they aren't Google, they should not make a statement on how you should update your device unless it is sanctioned by Google (who freaking OWNS Android) and the mfg of every Android device that's on the market.
At least that's my take on this Consumer fiasco
Any competent lawyers out there that wish to make a comment?
The ONLY qualified source of information regarding how to upgrade a device is the mfg of the device, because THEY have to honor the warranty and explain what is covered and what isn't. Again, if these ROOTED phone is not warranted, people have the right know.
I'd wait until the mfg of the device you own has made a qualified response to this mess before you update your device.
Dude, every single ROM is on a forum post. The OP on that forum post ALWAYS posts a warning saying to install the ROM at your own risk. Everyone that uses XDA ROMs and Roots their phones has plenty of warnings before they mess around with their device. Before rooting your phone, they warn you 20 times that it will void your warranty. Just like everyone knows jailbreaking an iPhone will void your warranty.
Who are the manufacturers going to sue? The consumers? The developers for modding an OPEN SOURCE SOFTWARE?
Android Central.. lol, a blog? For what, for saying "Oh hey, check out Carbon ROM, they modified the OS and added some neat features".
Just like Amazon and Alyiun OS was able to change Android, any XDA developer can change Android and make it to whatever they want. Any device that a consumer purchases is rightfully theirs to do whatever they want to it. I can put Alyiun OS on my Nexus 4 if I wanted. I can flash Miui (the chinese version of Android) if I wanted. It's equivalent of Linux where you can get Ubuntu, or Fedora, or Linux Mint, or any other "flavor" of linux you feel like tasting that day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrrodriguez
Dude, every single ROM is on a forum post. The OP on that forum post ALWAYS posts a warning saying to install the ROM at your own risk. Everyone that uses XDA ROMs and Roots their phones has plenty of warnings before they mess around with their device. Before rooting your phone, they warn you 20 times that it will void your warranty. Just like everyone knows jailbreaking an iPhone will void your warranty.
Who are the manufacturers going to sue? The consumers? The developers for modding an OPEN SOURCE SOFTWARE?
Android Central.. lol, a blog? For what, for saying "Oh hey, check out Carbon ROM, they modified the OS and added some neat features".
Just like Amazon and Alyiun OS was able to change Android, any XDA developer can change Android and make it to whatever they want. Any device that a consumer purchases is rightfully theirs to do whatever they want to it. I can put Alyiun OS on my Nexus 4 if I wanted. I can flash Miui (the chinese version of Android) if I wanted. It's equivalent of Linux where you can get Ubuntu, or Fedora, or Linux Mint, or any other "flavor" of linux you feel like tasting that day.
Whatever. Putting a flavor of Linux on a computer can't brick the computer, so the user can always get the thing back to the original state. With these phones, there are ways that it can render your phone un-useable and these cell carriers may not want them on their networks, the OEMs may not want their customers doing this, etc. It's a little different than a traditional desktop computer running Linux or Ubuntu, etc. Which I think is dumb, but I guess if you like experimenting that's your trip.
Neither of us are attorneys. So, it would NOT surprise me if Google, and the other ranging from OEMs to Cell Carriers got this crap taken down. Open Source? Come on, you guys are playing with someone else's intellectual property. If you took Google's OEM software and modified it for your own smartphone design, then that's how it's intended, but I don't think Google had planned for this to take this route and I don't think the OEMs thought or intended this to take place as well.
I just would not buy a product and rely on some group of idiots to upgrade my phone because the mfg can't get their collective act together. I'll just buy a product that is much better at releasing updates and does a better job at fixing problems and removing the possibility for getting infected with malware as much as possible. In my book, it's better to deal with a real company that knows how to develop a OS platform that's supported by the mfg and not come rouge group of selfish, childish little pricks trying to circumvent the system for some excuse to run a POS OS that shouldn't be released in the manner that it is. I knew Android was a joke over a year ago and you and this XDA group is just validating what I already suspected. Just a mess of BS.
Doing something is one thing, but doing something that voiding a warranty not not approved by the OEM mfg. is something else.
Nothing you can say will convince me that this Android platform is even worth researching as a possible product purchase. NOTHING. I'm glad Apple is there. It gives me a lot of sense of satisfaction that I can rely on a company that doesn't force us to rely on some group of rouges trying to circumvent the system.
Grow up. The Android platform is a joke. Wah, wah wah. Joke's on you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrrodriguez
Dude, every single ROM is on a forum post. The OP on that forum post ALWAYS posts a warning saying to install the ROM at your own risk. Everyone that uses XDA ROMs and Roots their phones has plenty of warnings before they mess around with their device. Before rooting your phone, they warn you 20 times that it will void your warranty. Just like everyone knows jailbreaking an iPhone will void your warranty.
Who are the manufacturers going to sue? The consumers? The developers for modding an OPEN SOURCE SOFTWARE?
Android Central.. lol, a blog? For what, for saying "Oh hey, check out Carbon ROM, they modified the OS and added some neat features".
Just like Amazon and Alyiun OS was able to change Android, any XDA developer can change Android and make it to whatever they want. Any device that a consumer purchases is rightfully theirs to do whatever they want to it. I can put Alyiun OS on my Nexus 4 if I wanted. I can flash Miui (the chinese version of Android) if I wanted. It's equivalent of Linux where you can get Ubuntu, or Fedora, or Linux Mint, or any other "flavor" of linux you feel like tasting that day.
It's OPEN SOURCE to a certain extent. I would think that Samsung, HTC's, etc. ROM are THEIR intellectual property and that modifying them might actually be illegal or they might be able to have laws changed to make this illegal. Again, I'm not an attorney, but if the OEMs are not sanctioning what XDA is doing and they feel that it's not in the best interest to protect their modified OEM versions of Android to run on their phones, then they actually might have a case. I don't know what they are going to do about it. But if I were the OEMs, i'd be PISSED OFF. I'm sure the cell phone carriers might be nervous as well.
Remember, Google OWNS ANDROID. Google can make this stuff a limited open source. I haven't read Google's OEM agreement on whether or not this is actually allowed by other than the OEMs on their own hardware. Don't be surprised if XDA get shut down. OK. Seriously.
Can someone get OS X on a DIY PC? Yeah. Is it legal? NO. Is it supported? NO. Then it's stupid to do it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank
Sounds like you are trying to justify a F"d up platform making excuses for buying into biggest bag of crap. REAL companies would not let this OS strategy happen. I still can't believe that these companies should sell anything that isn't running the latest OS and that updates come out in a timely manner. Selling Gingerbread phones or even Ice Cream Sandwich phones once Jelly Bean was released is a complete joke. Relying on a modder community for support is just stupid. They aren't going to buy you a new phone if their crap bricks your phone. Things can get corrupted very easily. A "modder" is very similar to a hacker and I would trust either. Have a nice day. SUCKER.
Actually the Oppo Find 5 and other Oppo phones have community driven updates. The company relies on community developers to help them with updates and releases.
I don't understand your synical view about modders. When you have 20-30 developers, if one developer creates a ROM that has spyware or other code with criminal intent, the other developers will find it and that developer's reputation will get tarnished. I can understand if you might be wary about the amount of "rigorous" testing they do before releasing an update, and maybe you might be concerned if your phone bricks. Then in that case, you should choose your phone wisely, and if you're into the latest and greatest, go with Google Edition phones, or choose manufacturers that have good track record of updating their OS (like Oppo)
I don't get how someone is a SUCKER for wanting to take control of their device. If you want Apple to dictate what apps you are allowed to download, then that's fine. You're a communist oriented thinker. You are happy being controlled and sandboxed. You're a Yes Man. Apple tells you to jump and you say how high. That's fine, but some people prefer to have some choice, and that's what Android provides.
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank
It's OPEN SOURCE to a certain extent. I would think that Samsung, HTC's, etc. ROM are THEIR intellectual property and that modifying them might actually be illegal or they might be able to have laws changed to make this illegal. Again, I'm not an attorney, but if the OEMs are not sanctioning what XDA is doing and they feel that it's not in the best interest to protect their modified OEM versions of Android to run on their phones, then they actually might have a case. I don't know what they are going to do about it. But if I were the OEMs, i'd be PISSED OFF. I'm sure the cell phone carriers might be nervous as well.
Remember, Google OWNS ANDROID. Google can make this stuff a limited open source. I haven't read Google's OEM agreement on whether or not this is actually allowed by other than the OEMs on their own hardware. Don't be surprised if XDA get shut down. OK. Seriously.
Can someone get OS X on a DIY PC? Yeah. Is it legal? NO. Is it supported? NO. Then it's stupid to do it.
Dude, OS X isn't open source, only Darwin (the kernel). Do you even know what that means?
And Samsung, HTC, and other manufacturer ROMs are not intellectual property, they're Skins, or a Theme/Launcher, like shown Here. The Icons might be their property, but not the implementation of the UI. And HTC Sense software does NOT work on any NON HTC phone. Same as Samsung, Touchwiz ONLY WORKS on Samsung phones (That are compatible). Most of their software are embedded with their hardware drivers, for example Samsung's hand swipe features don't work on non-samsung phones, even if you install a Touchwiz UI ROM. Same as the S-Pen functionalities. If you put a ROM on a Note 2, it will lose the S-Pen functionality, because it's only available using Touchwiz. Those features are manufacturer specific and CAN'T be modded/utilized without permission from the manufacturer. They have to actually give you the source code for those functionalities.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrrodriguez
Actually the Oppo Find 5 and other Oppo phones have community driven updates. The company relies on community developers to help them with updates and releases.
I don't understand your synical view about modders. When you have 20-30 developers, if one developer creates a ROM that has spyware or other code with criminal intent, the other developers will find it and that developer's reputation will get tarnished. I can understand if you might be wary about the amount of "rigorous" testing they do before releasing an update, and maybe you might be concerned if your phone bricks. Then in that case, you should choose your phone wisely, and if you're into the latest and greatest, go with Google Edition phones, or choose manufacturers that have good track record of updating their OS (like Oppo)
I don't get how someone is a SUCKER for wanting to take control of their device. If you want Apple to dictate what apps you are allowed to download, then that's fine. You're a communist oriented thinker. You are happy being controlled and sandboxed. You're a Yes Man. Apple tells you to jump and you say how high. That's fine, but some people prefer to have some choice, and that's what Android provides.
So what. Maybe that's why Oppo phones aren't selling well.
Someone wanting to take control of their device? What is THAT all about. I choose to buy what products I want and use it how it's intended and do what I can to make sure that I'm not getting malware. What's wrong with that? The second you get malware which you may not even know you have, someone else takes control over YOUR data. Ooops.
I am NOT a communist oriented thinker. Apple or whomever that doesn't buy into the Open Source community BS is just trying to develop a platform and be able to support it and hopefully try to protect the consumer from malware. That's how they are doing things. I buy a Mac with the intentions of using OS X. If I need to run Windows on it, then Apple, with Microsoft's blessing allows me to run Windows on it. But computers are COMPLETELY different than a smartphone. Cell carriers are involved and they want to make sure that whatever code is running on these devices is kosher for them to bless. it's just using some intelligence to make things work and for people to get good support, etc.
What these companies are trying to do is to make sure that it is less likely to install something illegal or open up their systems to be infested by malware and to gie a consistent user experience that the company can better support the user. How does Apple dictate what apps I'm allowed to download? All they are looking for is some bad code that compromises the customer's device. Nothing wrong with that. That's trying to PROTECT the consumer ya idiot.
A choice? Of what? A platform that has more malware than any other mobile device platform? Wow, how dumb is that?
You are making childish excuses to not work within the system. REAL childish. Grow up. You obviously sound like someone that doesn't like rules.
You know what happens in a society that doesn't have rules or people don't follow rules? Anarchy. You sound like an anarchist. Anarchist are people that avoid rules, eventually they get caught doing something illegal. Again, grow up.
Oh someone's reputation gets tarnished. And how the F are you going to know who that is because these modders can change their screen names. Data can get corrupted at any point in time even without the intent of the developer or the user. From reading the XDA site, someone mentioned about 4 ways they knew of how a phone could get bricked and they mentioned that there could be other ways for that to happen. Doesn't sound like a rational way to deal with a smartphone.
Obvisously, You are NEVER going to change my mind. I will NEVER buy an Android ANYTHING, so I don't have to worry about the BS that goes along with it. But you have to keep up to date on that crap, its more things YOU have to worry about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrrodriguez
Dude, OS X isn't open source, only Darwin (the kernel). Do you even know what that means?
And Samsung, HTC, and other manufacturer ROMs are not intellectual property, they're Skins, or a Theme/Launcher, like shown Here. The Icons might be their property, but not the implementation of the UI. And HTC Sense software does NOT work on any NON HTC phone. Same as Samsung, Touchwiz ONLY WORKS on Samsung phones (That are compatible). Most of their software are embedded with their hardware drivers, for example Samsung's hand swipe features don't work on non-samsung phones, even if you install a Touchwiz UI ROM. Same as the S-Pen functionalities. If you put a ROM on a Note 2, it will lose the S-Pen functionality, because it's only available using Touchwiz. Those features are manufacturer specific and CAN'T be modded/utilized without permission from the manufacturer. They have to actually give you the source code for those functionalities.
I'm well aware of what open source can mean as there are certain things that will make something open source at certain levels. Is Windows Open Source? Does Microsoft release the Source Code for you to modify?
If the company doesn't mind you doing it and they'll still warrant the product,then that's the right of the mfg. But I don't believe that Google intended these phones to be hacked and modified in the way they are being done. From my perspective, until Google makes an official announcement, I believe that Google wants people to take the code, modify it for their own hardware and market and support a product much in the way that HTC, Samsung are doing it and NOT for some idiot customer to go around the way the device mfg's wishes and reload something else in it's place that is not supported by that device mfg.
I think it's Open Source to a certain extent. Obviously, you need to talk to the device mfg and ask them if what you are doing is in violation of any of their IP. And you might have to also contact the cell phone carrier to see if it's in violation of their service agreement. Have you done that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrrodriguez
Dude, OS X isn't open source, only Darwin (the kernel). Do you even know what that means?
And Samsung, HTC, and other manufacturer ROMs are not intellectual property, they're Skins, or a Theme/Launcher, like shown Here. The Icons might be their property, but not the implementation of the UI. And HTC Sense software does NOT work on any NON HTC phone. Same as Samsung, Touchwiz ONLY WORKS on Samsung phones (That are compatible). Most of their software are embedded with their hardware drivers, for example Samsung's hand swipe features don't work on non-samsung phones, even if you install a Touchwiz UI ROM. Same as the S-Pen functionalities. If you put a ROM on a Note 2, it will lose the S-Pen functionality, because it's only available using Touchwiz. Those features are manufacturer specific and CAN'T be modded/utilized without permission from the manufacturer. They have to actually give you the source code for those functionalities.
Sounds like a mess to me. enjoy your bag of hurt. Now, go to your XDA, Android Central site and quit bothering people that have no interest in Android.
I don't go on Android Central or XDA's site bothering them, so quit bothering us.
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank
Sounds like you are trying to justify a F"d up platform making excuses for buying into biggest bag of crap.
No one is trying to justify anything. You were sounding the alarm about impending XDA lawsuits. The iOS jailbreak community has a far greater chance of being sued compared to XDA.
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank
Neither of us are attorneys. So, it would NOT surprise me if Google, and the other ranging from OEMs to Cell Carriers got this crap taken down. Open Source? Come on, you guys are playing with someone else's intellectual property. If you took Google's OEM software and modified it for your own smartphone design, then that's how it's intended, but I don't think Google had planned for this to take this route and I don't think the OEMs thought or intended this to take place as well.
Community-developed mods like Cyanogenmod are not modifying proprietary OEM code. They draw from the Android Open Source Project, whose source code is licensed expressly to permit modification. I'm not an attorney either, but the meaning of the phrase
"You may reproduce and distribute copies of the Work or Derivative Works thereof in any medium, with or without modifications, and in Source or Object form, provided that You meet the following conditions:"
seems quite clear. The terms "Work" and "Derivative Works" are also defined in that document. I would be interested to hear your theory about how one could get sued for deriving from Apache-licensed code.
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank
But if I were the OEMs, i'd be PISSED OFF.
A rational OEM would be happy that people are doing things with their devices that might void their warranty. Since repairs under warranty are performed at the manufacturer's expense, why wouldn't an OEM want to escape from that contract?
Quote:
Originally Posted by d4NjvRzf
No one is trying to justify anything. You were sounding the alarm about impending XDA lawsuits. The iOS jailbreak community has a far greater chance of being sued compared to XDA.
Community-developed mods like Cyanogenmod are not modifying proprietary OEM code. They draw from the Android Open Source Project, whose source code is licensed expressly to permit modification. I'm not an attorney either, but the meaning of the phrase
seems quite clear. The terms "Work" and "Derivative Works" are also defined in that document. I would be interested to hear your theory about how one could get sued for deriving from Apache-licensed code.
A rational OEM would be happy that people are doing things with their devices that might void their warranty. Repairs under warranty are performed at the manufacturer's expense, so why wouldn't an OEM be glad to escape from that contract?
Yeah, people are. They are trying to justify that people get an update that the mfg refuses to post on an older phone to have 4.2.2. If I were a mfg of a phone, I would only sell product that can run the latest OS and give people at least 3 years worth of OS updates in the process if I could.. And get the updates in the customer's hands quickly. In addition do whatever it takes to give the customers a safe place to get apps that don't have malware. Do whatever they can to prevent malware even if it's done through an email distribution or going to some loser's site that does this. I know it's hard to do, but some companies have managed to not have malware attacks register with these security companies. I certainly wouldn't force my customers to get OS support and updates through a 3rd party group of people that don't get paid for their time, and there is no accountability should the hardware get bricked because of doing something like what XDA is doing.
What does Apache have to do with Android OS's that are on these phones that need to get updated?
That's the point. The OEMs don't want to spend the money it takes to do a proper job in supporting their own products, so they'll let unpaid volunteers do that for them. Great. It's called CUSTOMER SATISFACTION, INTEGRITY, GOOD BUSINESS PRACTICES, something the Android OEMS and Google lack. That's why Apple has high customer satisfaction issues. Yeah, I wonder how many phones within a 2 year period the average Android user buys because in order to get a new version OS, they have to buy a new phone. I have an iPhone 4, and it works great. The battery does fine and it hasn't crashed ONCE and I've never had any problems with it where I needed to have it replaced, OS reset. If I have a question about the OS, I can swing into the local Apple store and there's plenty of qualified people to assist me, FREE O CHARGE. and when iOS 7 comes out, that will be the third major OS update on this product, so it can theoretically last until iOS 8 comes out which is a year after iOS 7's release, which I'll probably have to replace it if I want to always run the latest OS and still want to keep my phone a little longer past the 2 year contract. That's how it SHOULD be regardless of brand. I shouldn't be forced into going to a third party to get an OS release because of security reasons and the mfg is too lazy or cheap to update the OS like they SHOULD. It makes me not want to buy another product from that company since if I do, I'll have to rely on someone else after a year's period. If that's the game Android OEMS want to play, they may not get return business unless you are one of the 5 Million registered XDA users that don't mind. That's not a high rate of people buying into XDA's concept. Remember, there's 900 Million Android phones and only 5 Million are supportive of XDA? Maybe the Android platform only really has about 5 Million constantly buying Android phones and there aren't 900 million users, only 5 Million with their HUGE collection of Android phones. How many Android phones have you bought in the last 1 1/2? I've only bought one smartphone and it works just fine. I've run into a handful of Android geeks that are into rooting their phones, etc. and they always seem to be experts on just about every model Android phone to the point where they have owned them. Seems like an expensive hobby collecting Android phones. Maybe most of them are just laying around not being used collecting dust.