You can say a lot about Samsung but their phones don't break easily. When I had my Samsung Note I must have dropped it about a half a dozen times without so much as a scratch. My daughter has had to replace her iPhone three times already due to cracked screens.
Yes, last year Motorola "only" lost $100 million in the quarter.
Recently Motorola has been investing heavily into their Fort Worth factory, where they plan to build the first US assembled smartphone, the Moto X. It's reportedly creating 2,000 new jobs.
Even so, they still have $3.2 billion in cash reserves, so if they had to, they could continue for up to several years burning through that. Hopefully they won't have to.
Forget all the fine details. Everyone is happy to hear that Samsung is beating the crap out of Apple in profits whether it's actually true or not. Let them enjoy the doom-ation of Apple if it makes them happy. Wall Street certainly doesn't care one way or another. Wall Street only knows that Apple's ass is being beaten in market share by Samsung and that's enough to perpetually keep Apple's share price down in the toilet. The hedge fund managers are tremendously fearful that Apple has lost its touch and they can make a lot more money by backing legitimate companies like Amazon where they know they've got a sure thing when they see it. Apple is too iffy an investment. Hedge funds only back sure things.
One thing for certain, Apple should never have let Samsung get even close to them. Apple should never have allowed Samsung to dominate the smartphone market in less than a year. Apple pulled a bonehead move by not doing anything for nearly nine months. What's the point of Apple having a mountain of reserve cash if they're not going to use it to protect themselves from weaker rivals. Samsung will soon own the bottom, the mid-tier and maybe even the top-tier smartphone market without even breaking a sweat. Samsung can put out six models of smartphones for every one Apple puts out. Each having a different feature that's better than whatever feature the iPhone has.
Well, good luck, Apple. You're going to have to beat off Samsung with a stick because everything Apple does, Samsung is going to copy it and add more features and then sell it for less money. Wall Street loves that price undercutting strategy and that's why Amazon is so favored by Wall Street investors.
Still not quite sure why it's Apple's fault that you haven't learned to buy low and sell high.
:rolleyes:
The stock market isn't the place to put you money if you don't know what you're doing.
I guess you didn't read the article. Samsung does not release any unit sales data. Apple does. Anything you read about Samsung is pure guesswork and BS. Apple's numbers are audited.
All of the companies in the report you linked to above are mobile phone companies: RIM, Motorola, Nokia, HTC, and Sony Ericsson. Relatively easy to see how much they're making because phones are all they make. Samsung is a whole different beast. But I suspect you already know that. Funny stuff indeed.
I guess you didn't read the article. Samsung does not release any unit sales data. Apple does. Anything you read about Samsung is pure guesswork and BS. Apple's numbers are audited.
I did read the article but I don't think you grasped my comment.
If Samsung's numbers are just guesswork then it's impossible to say who makes the larger profit. Therefore, it's just as idiotic of DED to say that Apple makes the most profits as it is for these analysts to say that Samsung makes the most profits.
I did read the article but I don't think you grasped my comment.
If Samsung's numbers are just guesswork then it's impossible to say who makes the larger profit. Therefore, it's just as idiotic of DED to say that Apple makes the most profits as it is for these analysts to say that Samsung makes the most profits.
But DED didn't say that about Samsung, a point you seem intent on ignoring. He said it about a group of companies from 2010 that were PRIMARILY phone companies, and therefore it is much easier to tell how much money they were making from phones (as well as Motorola MOBILITY'S massive business in: weather radios, set top boxes, fitness devices, baby monitors, corded and cordless phones, modems and gateways) (/s). Samsung, as I've already said, is a totally different beast.
Thanks for the link but I'm not sure that does anything for my own personal observations. I'm sure Samsung has it's fair share of screen mishaps but all I can do is give you what I have seen personally. I was also responding to a comment made by someone stating that all Samsung phones are poorly built. I haven't owned all Samsung phones just the S2 and the Note but I felt that this poster was trolling. However since you brought up a lookie here I told you response It still doesn't stop me from noticing an alarming amount of cracked iPhone screens. I'm sure people on this forum take meticulous care of their devices. However I really don't think there is a week that goes by where I don't notice at least 2 cracked iPhone screens, especially when I'm taking the train to and from work. The Samsung Note is probably made a little tougher then the Samsung S3 as pointed out in your looky here link, I don't know, maybe it's a exception to the rule with Samsung, I just don't know. I shouldn't have generalized all Samsung phones being tough either, won't happen again. Just the Note and S2.
When we bought my daughter her iPhone the sales girl made it a point to suggest us getting the extra screen protection insurance. My husband sniffing out a scam as he has never had a cracked screen on his iPhone told her it wouldn't be necessary but she pushed and showed us a list of iPhone's that came in for the year thus far for repairs, she also said that 1 out of 4 iPhones have to have their screens repaired and showed us their statistics. As to why she showed us these number, Orange (our Swiss carrier) have gotten many complaints and corporate is just covering their behinds, Swisscom and Sunrise the other two major carriers in Switzerland have also started doing this. Another interesting thing is the iPhone is the only phone with this kind of insurance that only covers the screens, it has since be augmented and the insurance now covers everything including theft.
Curious, I even started asking people with cracked screens on the train as to what had happened, more then half of them end the story with it's not the first time. My daughter has already had hers repaired 3 times, the most recent incident happened with only a half meter drop from a stool while sitting, it had a case on it as well. My boys Nokia 820 has fallen out of his pocket multiple times, even once while riding his bicycle, it bounced twice with only a scratch to the case.
Again, this is only my personal experience, I'm sure you'll come back with slur of links proving that this kind of thing is rare, which is great as I hope this is the case. I'm not calling the iPhone a bad phone either, both my daughter and husband seem to love theirs and rightfully so. As I no longer have any mobile devices made by Samsung their is zero cause for me to be making this up.
Here are my two looky here links so as to feel not left out.
I guess you didn't read the article. Samsung does not release any unit sales data. Apple does. Anything you read about Samsung is pure guesswork and BS. Apple's numbers are audited.
Let's not go overboard. Obviously the numbers are not "pure guesswork" out of nowhere. They all involve at least some analysis derived from known factors.
Some researchers have established numbers checks at import offices and warehouses, which can give very accurate shipment numbers where that's being done. Some poll store managers. Some use exit surveys at stores to determine end user sales. Some have the equivalent of "Nielson families" to draw upon. Some use phone surveys.
In other words, their numbers can't just be summarily dismissed. They're least good enough for rough comparisons. Plus, if we ignored all analysis numbers, we'd have nothing to talk about
--
Yes, Apple tells a little more than most. At the same time, Apple holds back the really important info that would aid competitors. For example, what are the sales for each individual model type? What are the sales to carriers vs. sales to other retailers vs. direct store sales? We only "know" these from analyses.
Apple holds back such info for the same reason that their competitors do. To keep from giving info that others might take advantage of.
So perhaps the big question should not be why does everyone else keep sales close to their vest, but rather why does Apple give out sales/shipment totals? Pride? Sales often drop after a debut and that's not happy info to give out. Is it because their entire business is based on comparatively few products, and thus easier to figure out anyway? Is it because they feel like sales guesses would hurt them more than other companies? Any ideas?
Thanks for the link but I'm not sure that does anything for my own personal observations. I'm sure Samsung has it's fair share of screen mishaps but all I can do is give you what I have seen personally. I was also responding to a comment made by someone stating that all Samsung phones are poorly built. I haven't owned all Samsung phones just the S2 and the Note but I felt that this poster was trolling. However since you brought up a lookie here I told you response It still doesn't stop me from noticing an alarming amount of cracked iPhone screens. I'm sure people on this forum take meticulous care of their devices. However I really don't think there is a week that goes by where I don't notice at least 2 cracked iPhone screens, especially when I'm taking the train to and from work. The Samsung Note is probably made a little tougher then the Samsung S3 as pointed out in your looky here link, I don't know, maybe it's a exception to the rule with Samsung, I just don't know. I shouldn't have generalized all Samsung phones being tough either, won't happen again. Just the Note and S2.
When we bought my daughter her iPhone the sales girl made it a point to suggest us getting the extra screen protection insurance. My husband sniffing out a scam as he has never had a cracked screen on his iPhone told her it wouldn't be necessary but she pushed and showed us a list of iPhone's that came in for the year thus far for repairs, she also said that 1 out of 4 iPhones have to have their screens repaired and showed us their statistics. As to why she showed us these number, Orange (our Swiss carrier) have gotten many complaints and corporate is just covering their behinds, Swisscom and Sunrise the other two major carriers in Switzerland have also started doing this. Another interesting thing is the iPhone is the only phone with this kind of insurance that only covers the screens, it has since be augmented and the insurance now covers everything including theft.
Curious, I even started asking people with cracked screens on the train as to what had happened, more then half of them end the story with it's not the first time. My daughter has already had hers repaired 3 times, the most recent incident happened with only a half meter drop from a stool while sitting, it had a case on it as well. My boys Nokia 820 has fallen out of his pocket multiple times, even once while riding his bicycle, it bounced twice with only a scratch to the case.
Again, this is only my personal experience, I'm sure you'll come back with slur of links proving that this kind of thing is rare, which is great as I hope this isn't the case. I'm not calling the iPhone a bad phone either, both my daughter and husband seem love theirs. As I know longer have any mobile devices made by Samsung their is zero cause for me to be making this up.
Here are my two looky here links so as to feel not left out.
[B]@relic[/B]—I have to agree that the 4/4S design is too vulnerable and i'm knocking on wood while I say that I amazingly haven't broken mine yet, as many times as it has fallen out of a shirt pocket when I check a tire or whatever. Always in a case, lately in a silicone bumper which leaves both sides of glass exposed, but still no break over two years.
Don't know about the 5, as I have no friends with one, but it must be half as vulnerable, right? The plastic backed C phone, if it happens, may be designed to address this probem. I certainly hope so. The plastic should extend over the edges of the glass in the front.
A wine barrel is a great idea for a dog house by the way. Is it common in Europe?
Edit: Unfortunately, I see that our hypercritical gadfly has taken the opportunity to score a point for his team on this breakage issue. I regret opening the barn door. He gets to make his 2 cents off the floor.
@relicI have to agree that the 4/4S design is too vulnerable and i'm knocking on wood while I say that I amazingly haven't broken mine yet, as many times as it has fallen out of a shirt pocket when I check a tire or whatever. Always in a case, lately in a silicone bumper which leaves both sides of glass exposed, but still no break over two years.
Don't know about the 5, as I have no friends with one, but it must be half as vulnerable, right? The plastic backed C phone, if it happens, may be designed to address this probem. I certainly hope so. The plastic should extend over the edges of the glass in the front.
A wine barrel is a great idea for a dog house by the way. Is it common in Europe?
Edit: Unfortunately, I see that our hypercritical gadfly has taken the opportunity to score a point for his team on this breakage issue. I regret opening the barn door. He gets to make his 2 cents off the floor.
I was looking at the Moto X earlier and the glass actually curves around the edges. I'm wondering how much of a recipe for disaster that is?
I've just never heard anyone else mention it. The 4/4S have been out for quite some time and it's only in the last 6 months that I've seen so many cracked ones. I just kinda thought it was like when you buy a car or want to buy one and you suddenly see them all the time. Btw why would I lie about something so innocuous? If I was going to lie it'll be a big one not a little bitty white one.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic
You can say a lot about Samsung but their phones don't break easily. When I had my Samsung Note I must have dropped it about a half a dozen times without so much as a scratch. My daughter has had to replace her iPhone three times already due to cracked screens.
Uh-huh?
Quote:
Originally Posted by miffedone
but it's a very large segment of the market which Apple has simply GIVEN AWAY by not competing in it.
Don't you mean Nokia?
Nokia was number one handset manufacturer for many years, Samsung was stalking them long before Apple came along and disrupted the market.
Fat lot of good it did Nokia.
So why should Apple go down the same low profit/loss making route?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections
The discussion was "how much they're making." Motorola loses money. $342 million in the last quarter.
Now, now. Motorola does make something exceptional well.
Red ink.
Please, when people say Apple, you can infer we don't mean Apple Corps.
Yes, last year Motorola "only" lost $100 million in the quarter.
Recently Motorola has been investing heavily into their Fort Worth factory, where they plan to build the first US assembled smartphone, the Moto X. It's reportedly creating 2,000 new jobs.
Even so, they still have $3.2 billion in cash reserves, so if they had to, they could continue for up to several years burning through that. Hopefully they won't have to.
Still not quite sure why it's Apple's fault that you haven't learned to buy low and sell high.
:rolleyes:
The stock market isn't the place to put you money if you don't know what you're doing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL
So, when the numbers look good for Apple, you're happy to declare that Apple takes the lion share of smartphone profits but now that they might look good for Samsung.... it's impossible to calculate anyone's profits accurately?
Funny stuff.
I guess you didn't read the article. Samsung does not release any unit sales data. Apple does. Anything you read about Samsung is pure guesswork and BS. Apple's numbers are audited.
Nokia makes a lot more than just phones
Quote:
Originally Posted by s.ballmer
I guess you didn't read the article. Samsung does not release any unit sales data. Apple does. Anything you read about Samsung is pure guesswork and BS. Apple's numbers are audited.
I did read the article but I don't think you grasped my comment.
If Samsung's numbers are just guesswork then it's impossible to say who makes the larger profit. Therefore, it's just as idiotic of DED to say that Apple makes the most profits as it is for these analysts to say that Samsung makes the most profits.
http://mobile.pcmag.com/#!/article/51f57c627b1eac48f40c88de-strategy-analytics-claims-of-samsung-apple-profits-draw-controversy
Closest we come to an apology in journalism land, I guess.
He still left his follow up kind of unfinished and ambiguous in its (somewhat corrected) conclusions. Oh well.
Good job getting the attention of at least one of the 'big boys' anyway. Hopefully the reevaluation will propagate further!
I will not. Am I wrong? Fact is Apple gets tons of press coverage both good and bad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL
I did read the article but I don't think you grasped my comment.
If Samsung's numbers are just guesswork then it's impossible to say who makes the larger profit. Therefore, it's just as idiotic of DED to say that Apple makes the most profits as it is for these analysts to say that Samsung makes the most profits.
But DED didn't say that about Samsung, a point you seem intent on ignoring. He said it about a group of companies from 2010 that were PRIMARILY phone companies, and therefore it is much easier to tell how much money they were making from phones (as well as Motorola MOBILITY'S massive business in: weather radios, set top boxes, fitness devices, baby monitors, corded and cordless phones, modems and gateways) (/s). Samsung, as I've already said, is a totally different beast.
When we bought my daughter her iPhone the sales girl made it a point to suggest us getting the extra screen protection insurance. My husband sniffing out a scam as he has never had a cracked screen on his iPhone told her it wouldn't be necessary but she pushed and showed us a list of iPhone's that came in for the year thus far for repairs, she also said that 1 out of 4 iPhones have to have their screens repaired and showed us their statistics. As to why she showed us these number, Orange (our Swiss carrier) have gotten many complaints and corporate is just covering their behinds, Swisscom and Sunrise the other two major carriers in Switzerland have also started doing this. Another interesting thing is the iPhone is the only phone with this kind of insurance that only covers the screens, it has since be augmented and the insurance now covers everything including theft.
Curious, I even started asking people with cracked screens on the train as to what had happened, more then half of them end the story with it's not the first time. My daughter has already had hers repaired 3 times, the most recent incident happened with only a half meter drop from a stool while sitting, it had a case on it as well. My boys Nokia 820 has fallen out of his pocket multiple times, even once while riding his bicycle, it bounced twice with only a scratch to the case.
Again, this is only my personal experience, I'm sure you'll come back with slur of links proving that this kind of thing is rare, which is great as I hope this is the case. I'm not calling the iPhone a bad phone either, both my daughter and husband seem to love theirs and rightfully so. As I no longer have any mobile devices made by Samsung their is zero cause for me to be making this up.
Here are my two looky here links so as to feel not left out.
http://crave.cnet.co.uk/mobiles/quarter-of-iphones-have-a-broken-screen-says-new-poll-50010370/
http://www.phonearena.com/news/23-of-Apple-iPhone-screens-are-cracked-according-to-a-survey_id39628
Quote:
Originally Posted by s.ballmer
I guess you didn't read the article. Samsung does not release any unit sales data. Apple does. Anything you read about Samsung is pure guesswork and BS. Apple's numbers are audited.
Let's not go overboard. Obviously the numbers are not "pure guesswork" out of nowhere. They all involve at least some analysis derived from known factors.
Some researchers have established numbers checks at import offices and warehouses, which can give very accurate shipment numbers where that's being done. Some poll store managers. Some use exit surveys at stores to determine end user sales. Some have the equivalent of "Nielson families" to draw upon. Some use phone surveys.
In other words, their numbers can't just be summarily dismissed. They're least good enough for rough comparisons. Plus, if we ignored all analysis numbers, we'd have nothing to talk about
--
Yes, Apple tells a little more than most. At the same time, Apple holds back the really important info that would aid competitors. For example, what are the sales for each individual model type? What are the sales to carriers vs. sales to other retailers vs. direct store sales? We only "know" these from analyses.
Apple holds back such info for the same reason that their competitors do. To keep from giving info that others might take advantage of.
So perhaps the big question should not be why does everyone else keep sales close to their vest, but rather why does Apple give out sales/shipment totals? Pride? Sales often drop after a debut and that's not happy info to give out. Is it because their entire business is based on comparatively few products, and thus easier to figure out anyway? Is it because they feel like sales guesses would hurt them more than other companies? Any ideas?
I thought it was just me, but I see cracked iPhones all the time as of late. I always tell them that it's like a $80 fix.
Don't know about the 5, as I have no friends with one, but it must be half as vulnerable, right? The plastic backed C phone, if it happens, may be designed to address this probem. I certainly hope so. The plastic should extend over the edges of the glass in the front.
A wine barrel is a great idea for a dog house by the way. Is it common in Europe?
Edit: Unfortunately, I see that our hypercritical gadfly has taken the opportunity to score a point for his team on this breakage issue. I regret opening the barn door. He gets to make his 2 cents off the floor.
I was looking at the Moto X earlier and the glass actually curves around the edges. I'm wondering how much of a recipe for disaster that is?
Why did you think it was just you?
Because you're lying, that's why.
I've just never heard anyone else mention it. The 4/4S have been out for quite some time and it's only in the last 6 months that I've seen so many cracked ones. I just kinda thought it was like when you buy a car or want to buy one and you suddenly see them all the time. Btw why would I lie about something so innocuous? If I was going to lie it'll be a big one not a little bitty white one.