They keep forgetting the Atrix was famous for its failing sensors or the fact Motorola stopped putting them in all subsequent phone models. Being first to market with an idea is meaningless if it doesn't work.
Didn't the Atrix use an Authentec sensor?
(Most of the failures I read about on the net so far, seem to be associated with installing a new ROM and not reseting the sensor code properly.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid
It would be worth far more than the $356 million Apple paid for AuthenTec, and the cloners would have no chance of copying the feature in an elegant way.
I still haven't heard what is supposed to be unique with whatever Apple might use them for. Capacitive/RF sensors have been around for well over a decade, and are available from quite a few sensor manufacturers.
As for a new idea, I could see perhaps embedding the sensor in the lower part of the display or something... but the SDK leaks indicate it being in the Home button, which seems odd. Too small for full finger recognition, and swiping seems a dangerous action on a pushbutton. Unless perhaps they change the button shape.
Wouldn't LiquidMetal's water and oil resistive qualities solve the indicated issues with fingerprint sensors, making them much longer lasting?
A capacitive sensor is basically a computer chip open on top with no real lid -- just a few micron thick electrically transparent protective layer put on top.
This super thin layer is subject to swiping wear, to chemical attack from sweat, accidental knocks, grease buildup... and perhaps worst of... allowing ESD (ElectroStatic Discharge) to pass and destroy the chip underneath.
Nevertheless, modern sensors list at least a million swipe life. If even half true, then you should be able to swipe a hundred times a day for at least a decade.
As for LiquidMetal, I can't think of a use for it here. Unless you had a sensor with an RF transmitter ring around it, and you wanted it for the ring. Remember, LM is metallic and conducts electricity.
A little off but apple could have 3 ways in iPhone 6 to unlock, a already out face recognition (hopefully improved), voice recognition (by Siri "speak to me") or figure print sensing, a combination would be best for it.
So Apple's assembly of one of it's Mac models here in the US would be the same kind of stunt then.
Mac Pros are a low volume business and Apple has been assembling BTO Macs in the U.S. since it began offering them 15 years ago.
I'd call Google's Moto X "made in USA" advertising a stunt because Google will continue to sell more of its own foreign-assembled smartphones (like the Nexus), It's fired 2x more high value engineers (~7k?) from Motorola in the last couple quarters that it will ever hire in low level assembly line workers (~2k) and the company has cited its "domestic" production (aka assembly) as being a way to skirt import bans of willingly infringing products (because it got caught talking border security into allowing it to import restricted devices anyway).
Google has smart engineers, but the the charlatans running the company are pretty shameless in their hypocrisy and boldface bullshitting lies.
The latest Android 4.3 may have been "announced" two weeks ago, but that doesn't suddenly make millions of NFC-based devices BLE compatible.
Also, do you have Android 4.3 on your phone or are you just gobbling bullshit?
Google says that as of 9 days ago, nobody has Android 4.3, and that ~58% of its users are on something older than its year old "Jelly Bean"
The excrement between your teeth is always nauseating to behold GG.
No I have Android 4.3 on my Nexus 7 purchased last year. Downloaded automatically several days ago, with the bonus of a very noticeable improvement in battery life too. Facts will do just fine sir.
Anyway, the devices already using the Android 4.3x update are the Nexus 4, 2012 Nexus 7, 2013 Nexus 7, Google Play edition Samsung Galaxy S 4 and HTC One.
This sounds like a repeat of Tim Cook at the All Things D conference, when he brought up certain factory skills in an attempt to deflect questions about Apple bringing their manufacturing back to the USA.
He commented something like, "All the remaining American tool-and-die makers could hardly fill this auditorium." It was a meaningless statistic used as a diversion for the naive, who would not check on it.
First off, by "makers", he must've meant "companies". There are still around five thousand USA tool-and-die companies. That's an average of 100 companies per state.
Secondly, he only needs a few of them at most. Each company likely employs up to a dozen skilled people, and with modern computer guided tools, they can outproduce many times the same number of Chinese workers who are still doing things by hand.
As for technical talent, a main reason why Samsung has built their latest chip plants in Texas, is because of the labor pool available around a technical American university.
There's also the consideration of long term ROI on training. At Foxconn, most laborers want to come in for a couple of years, make some money, then move back home. They're not in it for the long haul. Quality suffers when people are not willing to settle down with their families near a factory and take pride in the product.
The fact is, we have industries here in America such as automobile factories where tool and die are changed at least every year, and automobiles are a lot more complicated than an iPhone or iPad.
KD you never cease to amaze with your Googling skills. But as you must be aware, despite finding some blog rant with less credibility than even yourself, manufacturing chips (automated photography) and cars (AYEFKM?) have nothing to do with assembling millions of smartphones rapidly in batches over a few weeks.
Ok... so when the comment is made "Passbook already is used more often then the NFC chips on Android." - you actually don't have a source- it's just pure speculation.
Of course I've used it, and unless I'm going to a movie, a baseball game, or a subway- it's useless. Saying "all they need to do is develop for it" doesn't make it any more useful- you are just agreeing that in it's current state- it is totally useless. Again- so when the comment is made "Passbook already is used more often then the NFC chips on Android." - you actually don't have a source- it's just pure speculation.
so when the comment is made "Passbook already is used more often then the NFC chips on Android." - you actually don't have a source- it's just pure speculation.
I'm not claiming NFC is successful. But anyone trying to say Passbook is successful is either kidding themselves or totally delusional.
Just because it's anti-Google and Pro-Apple doesn't mean we can just throw words out there as fact. Particularly when they aren't.
Which one is Samsung copying?
hint: not NFC / Google Wallet. There, saved you from Googling by citing multimillion dollar "crisis of design" market research of the #2.
Mac Pros are a low volume business and Apple has been assembling BTO Macs in the U.S. since it began offering them 15 years ago.
I'd call Google's Moto X "made in USA" advertising a stunt because Google will continue to sell more of its own foreign-assembled smartphones (like the Nexus), It's fired 2x more high value engineers (~7k?) from Motorola in the last couple quarters that it will ever hire in low level assembly line workers (~2k) and the company has cited its "domestic" production (aka assembly) as being a way to skirt import bans of willingly infringing products (because it got caught talking border security into allowing it to import restricted devices anyway).
Google has smart engineers, but the the charlatans running the company are pretty shameless in their hypocrisy and boldface bullshitting lies.
A few days ago it looked like you'd had a change of heart and decided to dispose of most of the hyperbole in your posts. Perhaps someone else had written those for you and simply left that impression, dunno.
By the way, where did you get Google fired "~7k high value engineers"? Is that what Google said or it just a little more hyperbole?
Mac Pros are a low volume business and Apple has been assembling BTO Macs in the U.S. since it began offering them 15 years ago.
I'd call Google's Moto X "made in USA" advertising a stunt because Google will continue to sell more of its own foreign-assembled smartphones (like the Nexus), It's fired 2x more high value engineers (~7k?) from Motorola in the last couple quarters that it will ever hire in low level assembly line workers (~2k) and the company has cited its "domestic" production (aka assembly) as being a way to skirt import bans of willingly infringing products (because it got caught talking border security into allowing it to import restricted devices anyway).
Is the implication that unlike the Mac Pro, the Moto X will be a high-volume product?
I'd call Google's Moto X "made in USA" advertising a stunt because Google will continue to sell more of its own foreign-assembled smartphones (like the Nexus),
It's fired 2x more high value engineers (~7k?) from Motorola in the last couple quarters that it will ever hire in low level assembly line workers (~2k)
Motorola did not fire 7K "high value engineers", nor were most job "losses" even in the US.
Motorola sold assembly plants in Taiwan and Brazil to another company (Flextronics), and those thousands of overseas assembly workers were transferred on paper from Motorola to Flextronics.
According to Moto, that transfer accounted for the overwhelming majority of Motorola "job losses" the past quarter.
Apple is still a very innovative company; even without Steve Jobs. It's in their DNA not to release junk but to make quality products and give its customers a pleasant total user experience. This is the difference between them and everyone else; especially Samsung. The Samsung GS4 has a bunch of useless gimmicks, like the look away feature while viewing video and waving your hand over the device to initiate a function. They are trying to be different, but it's hard when your not blessed with creativity. Apple's ecosystem is superior to anything Android, Windows, or Blackberry can muster up. Apple will lead the mobile industry for a long time until they invent something else that disrupts the market.
"It may be hard to believe now, but in 2007 Microsoft's definition of a "Windows Mobile Smartphone" meant that it didn't have a touchscreen."
DED, you do yourself no favours by trying to suggest that, prior to the iphone, all phones had little passive screens and number pads (incidentally, a ridiculous claim made by Apple's legal team).
Microsoft had two versions of windows mobile, one optimised for touch screens and one optimised for phones without touch screen phones.
Your assessment of resistive screens would suggest that you have never used one, either that or you are engaged in revisionism. Resistive and capacitive screens each have their own merits. The former is however more accurate than the later and the suggestion that you have to thump the screen or (always) have to use a stylus is a gross representation of the truth. Prior to the release of the iPhone, HTC had already developed TouchFlow (and Sense), both of which were finger friendly. As far as I recall, whilst windows mobile on resistive screens in 2007 didn't support pinch to zoom but double tap to zoom predates the iphone.
Kudos for mentioning Jeff Han, you seem however to have overlooked the work done by JazzMutant. Whilst more expensive, their multi touch capacitive screen music controllers are closer in principle to that of the iphone than the previous offerings from FingerWorks.
it is difficult to take someone seriously when it is clear that they are willing to distort history in such a blatant manner, which is a shame given that it debases the salient and valid points.
Comments
I smell conspiracy theory.
One nice side-effect of an iPhone with biometric scanner... No more in-app purchases by the kids!
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee
They keep forgetting the Atrix was famous for its failing sensors or the fact Motorola stopped putting them in all subsequent phone models. Being first to market with an idea is meaningless if it doesn't work.
Didn't the Atrix use an Authentec sensor?
(Most of the failures I read about on the net so far, seem to be associated with installing a new ROM and not reseting the sensor code properly.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid
It would be worth far more than the $356 million Apple paid for AuthenTec, and the cloners would have no chance of copying the feature in an elegant way.
I still haven't heard what is supposed to be unique with whatever Apple might use them for. Capacitive/RF sensors have been around for well over a decade, and are available from quite a few sensor manufacturers.
As for a new idea, I could see perhaps embedding the sensor in the lower part of the display or something... but the SDK leaks indicate it being in the Home button, which seems odd. Too small for full finger recognition, and swiping seems a dangerous action on a pushbutton. Unless perhaps they change the button shape.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElBasuro
Wouldn't LiquidMetal's water and oil resistive qualities solve the indicated issues with fingerprint sensors, making them much longer lasting?
A capacitive sensor is basically a computer chip open on top with no real lid -- just a few micron thick electrically transparent protective layer put on top.
This super thin layer is subject to swiping wear, to chemical attack from sweat, accidental knocks, grease buildup... and perhaps worst of... allowing ESD (ElectroStatic Discharge) to pass and destroy the chip underneath.
Nevertheless, modern sensors list at least a million swipe life. If even half true, then you should be able to swipe a hundred times a day for at least a decade.
As for LiquidMetal, I can't think of a use for it here. Unless you had a sensor with an RF transmitter ring around it, and you wanted it for the ring. Remember, LM is metallic and conducts electricity.
Where were you thinking it might useful?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy
So Apple's assembly of one of it's Mac models here in the US would be the same kind of stunt then.
Mac Pros are a low volume business and Apple has been assembling BTO Macs in the U.S. since it began offering them 15 years ago.
I'd call Google's Moto X "made in USA" advertising a stunt because Google will continue to sell more of its own foreign-assembled smartphones (like the Nexus), It's fired 2x more high value engineers (~7k?) from Motorola in the last couple quarters that it will ever hire in low level assembly line workers (~2k) and the company has cited its "domestic" production (aka assembly) as being a way to skirt import bans of willingly infringing products (because it got caught talking border security into allowing it to import restricted devices anyway).
Google has smart engineers, but the the charlatans running the company are pretty shameless in their hypocrisy and boldface bullshitting lies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy
Yes sir it is certainly supported. You just haven't kept up, no biggie.
Bluetooth LE is a hardware feature.
The latest Android 4.3 may have been "announced" two weeks ago, but that doesn't suddenly make millions of NFC-based devices BLE compatible.
Also, do you have Android 4.3 on your phone or are you just gobbling bullshit?
Google says that as of 9 days ago, nobody has Android 4.3, and that ~58% of its users are on something older than its year old "Jelly Bean"
The excrement between your teeth is always nauseating to behold GG.
No I have Android 4.3 on my Nexus 7 purchased last year. Downloaded automatically several days ago, with the bonus of a very noticeable improvement in battery life too. Facts will do just fine sir.
Anyway, the devices already using the Android 4.3x update are the Nexus 4, 2012 Nexus 7, 2013 Nexus 7, Google Play edition Samsung Galaxy S 4 and HTC One.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling
This sounds like a repeat of Tim Cook at the All Things D conference, when he brought up certain factory skills in an attempt to deflect questions about Apple bringing their manufacturing back to the USA.
He commented something like, "All the remaining American tool-and-die makers could hardly fill this auditorium." It was a meaningless statistic used as a diversion for the naive, who would not check on it.
First off, by "makers", he must've meant "companies". There are still around five thousand USA tool-and-die companies. That's an average of 100 companies per state.
Secondly, he only needs a few of them at most. Each company likely employs up to a dozen skilled people, and with modern computer guided tools, they can outproduce many times the same number of Chinese workers who are still doing things by hand.
As for technical talent, a main reason why Samsung has built their latest chip plants in Texas, is because of the labor pool available around a technical American university.
There's also the consideration of long term ROI on training. At Foxconn, most laborers want to come in for a couple of years, make some money, then move back home. They're not in it for the long haul. Quality suffers when people are not willing to settle down with their families near a factory and take pride in the product.
As this blog points out:
The fact is, we have industries here in America such as automobile factories where tool and die are changed at least every year, and automobiles are a lot more complicated than an iPhone or iPad.
KD you never cease to amaze with your Googling skills. But as you must be aware, despite finding some blog rant with less credibility than even yourself, manufacturing chips (automated photography) and cars (AYEFKM?) have nothing to do with assembling millions of smartphones rapidly in batches over a few weeks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol
Ok... so when the comment is made "Passbook already is used more often then the NFC chips on Android." - you actually don't have a source- it's just pure speculation.
Of course I've used it, and unless I'm going to a movie, a baseball game, or a subway- it's useless. Saying "all they need to do is develop for it" doesn't make it any more useful- you are just agreeing that in it's current state- it is totally useless. Again- so when the comment is made "Passbook already is used more often then the NFC chips on Android." - you actually don't have a source- it's just pure speculation.
so when the comment is made "Passbook already is used more often then the NFC chips on Android." - you actually don't have a source- it's just pure speculation.
I'm not claiming NFC is successful. But anyone trying to say Passbook is successful is either kidding themselves or totally delusional.
Just because it's anti-Google and Pro-Apple doesn't mean we can just throw words out there as fact. Particularly when they aren't.
Which one is Samsung copying?
hint: not NFC / Google Wallet. There, saved you from Googling by citing multimillion dollar "crisis of design" market research of the #2.
A few days ago it looked like you'd had a change of heart and decided to dispose of most of the hyperbole in your posts. Perhaps someone else had written those for you and simply left that impression, dunno.
By the way, where did you get Google fired "~7k high value engineers"? Is that what Google said or it just a little more hyperbole?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections
Mac Pros are a low volume business and Apple has been assembling BTO Macs in the U.S. since it began offering them 15 years ago.
I'd call Google's Moto X "made in USA" advertising a stunt because Google will continue to sell more of its own foreign-assembled smartphones (like the Nexus), It's fired 2x more high value engineers (~7k?) from Motorola in the last couple quarters that it will ever hire in low level assembly line workers (~2k) and the company has cited its "domestic" production (aka assembly) as being a way to skirt import bans of willingly infringing products (because it got caught talking border security into allowing it to import restricted devices anyway).
Is the implication that unlike the Mac Pro, the Moto X will be a high-volume product?
[email protected]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections
I'd call Google's Moto X "made in USA" advertising a stunt because Google will continue to sell more of its own foreign-assembled smartphones (like the Nexus),
It's fired 2x more high value engineers (~7k?) from Motorola in the last couple quarters that it will ever hire in low level assembly line workers (~2k)
Motorola did not fire 7K "high value engineers", nor were most job "losses" even in the US.
Motorola sold assembly plants in Taiwan and Brazil to another company (Flextronics), and those thousands of overseas assembly workers were transferred on paper from Motorola to Flextronics.
According to Moto, that transfer accounted for the overwhelming majority of Motorola "job losses" the past quarter.
"It may be hard to believe now, but in 2007 Microsoft's definition of a "Windows Mobile Smartphone" meant that it didn't have a touchscreen."
DED, you do yourself no favours by trying to suggest that, prior to the iphone, all phones had little passive screens and number pads (incidentally, a ridiculous claim made by Apple's legal team).
Microsoft had two versions of windows mobile, one optimised for touch screens and one optimised for phones without touch screen phones.
Your assessment of resistive screens would suggest that you have never used one, either that or you are engaged in revisionism. Resistive and capacitive screens each have their own merits. The former is however more accurate than the later and the suggestion that you have to thump the screen or (always) have to use a stylus is a gross representation of the truth. Prior to the release of the iPhone, HTC had already developed TouchFlow (and Sense), both of which were finger friendly. As far as I recall, whilst windows mobile on resistive screens in 2007 didn't support pinch to zoom but double tap to zoom predates the iphone.
Kudos for mentioning Jeff Han, you seem however to have overlooked the work done by JazzMutant. Whilst more expensive, their multi touch capacitive screen music controllers are closer in principle to that of the iphone than the previous offerings from FingerWorks.
it is difficult to take someone seriously when it is clear that they are willing to distort history in such a blatant manner, which is a shame given that it debases the salient and valid points.