The impact of such a tech is huge. A world were all passwords, other info you want can be remembered in the iCloud Keychain and granted access with your thumb impression.
Imagine if you only had to touch your thumb to authenticate yourself all over the web and iOS Eco system. It's a big move towards advancements and better user experience.
The later part user experience would get a giant leap ahead with a small touch of a finger.
exactly. passwords are the #1 pain in the butt in the entire consumer digital world. a genuine Just Works solution to that would be a true breakthrough and huge market success.
as to all the "experts" declaring it won't work because [fill in blank], what they are really saying is they couldn't come up with a solution, so no one else can either. well, we'll see about that ...
Great posts!
If it is done right, it will give us such freedom and convenience that we'll never look back -- like replacing the hand crank on the automobile with the electric starter. (Yeah, I've cranked a few in my time -- a lot more difficult in a cold environment than removing a glove to use a touch screen).
I suspect Apple thinks they can do it -- having spent almost $400 million for the opportunity.
It if can pull off a functional fingerprint scanner, it stands to increase its lead by standing out in an otherwise poorly differentiated market.
It would be worth far more than the $356 million Apple paid for AuthenTec, and the cloners would have no chance of copying the feature in an elegant way.
And, in a one-two punch, there may be a low-cost iPhone "5C" this year without the AuthenTec in-screen sensor. The iPhone lineup could end up looking like this:
iPhone "5S": with AuthenTec sensor that puts it above all other handsets.
iPhone "5C": lower-cost, no AuthenTec sensor, competes against Android clones.
Apple could have a high-end iPhone that no cloner could copy. And they could demote all iPhone clones to the level of the "5C" at a lower price point. Devastating from both technological and marketing viewpoints.
It would be worth far more than the $356 million Apple paid for AuthenTec, and the cloners would have no chance of copying the feature in an elegant way.
And, in a one-two punch, there may be a low-cost iPhone "5C" this year without the AuthenTec in-screen sensor. The iPhone lineup could end up looking like this:
iPhone "5S": with AuthenTec sensor that puts it above all other handsets.
iPhone "5C": lower-cost, no AuthenTec sensor, competes against Android clones.
Apple could have a high-end iPhone that no cloner could copy. And they could demote all iPhone clones to the level of the "5C" at a lower price point. Devastating from both technological and marketing viewpoints.
Yup.
Apple is going completely turn the industry upside-down when the 5C and 5S come.
The 5C will be as good as $600+ Androids for a fraction of the cost.
The 5S will be leaps and bounds better for the same price we've always paid.
The Moto X is being built in Texas as a stunt. The reason why stuff is built in China is because it has tool and die expertise capable of setting up and reconfiguring a high production factory in days. The US couldn't do that in a year. US labor would add some cost, but not as much as you might think. The problem is the factories and manufacturing skills that America hasn't cultivated since the 60s.
This sounds like a repeat of Tim Cook at the All Things D conference, when he brought up certain factory skills in an attempt to deflect questions about Apple bringing their manufacturing back to the USA.
He commented something like, "All the remaining American tool-and-die makers could hardly fill this auditorium." It was a meaningless statistic used as a diversion for the naive, who would not check on it.
First off, by "makers", he must've meant "companies". There are still around five thousand USA tool-and-die companies. That's an average of 100 companies per state.
Secondly, he only needs a few of them at most. Each company likely employs up to a dozen skilled people, and with modern computer guided tools, they can outproduce many times the same number of Chinese workers who are still doing things by hand.
As for technical talent, a main reason why Samsung has built their latest chip plants in Texas, is because of the labor pool available around a technical American university.
There's also the consideration of long term ROI on training. At Foxconn, most laborers want to come in for a couple of years, make some money, then move back home. They're not in it for the long haul. Quality suffers when people are not willing to settle down with their families near a factory and take pride in the product.
"The answer is simple – Cook is talking baloney. It ain’t true.
This is not about skilled tool and die markers, this is about having 8000 workers who are willing to roll out of bed, take a cup of tea and a biscuit, and jump onto a 12 hour shift to adapt to a last minute design change Apple mandates.
It’s about dealing with a country whose factories and workers are subsidized to the hilt by the Chinese government and by the substandard conditions these workers toil under.
It’s about having the Chinese government invest capital so Apple doesn’t have to."
The fact is, we have industries here in America such as automobile factories where tool and die are changed at least every year, and automobiles are a lot more complicated than an iPhone or iPad.
With the security of personal information, perhaps especially mobile device personal information becoming more and more recognized as critical, this sort of security technology including as it does the specificity inherent in biometry alongside the convenience of a touch sensor, makes total sense. A compelling implementation will be welcomed as issues such as San Francisco's and NYC's "Apple Picking" crimes keep arising.
<span style="font-family:'HelveticaNeue-Light', 'Helvetica Neue Light', 'Helvetica Neue', 'Segoe UI', Helvetica, Arial, 'Sans Serif';font-size:15px;line-height:22px;">It if can pull off a functional fingerprint scanner, it stands to increase its lead by standing out in an otherwise poorly differentiated market.</span>
It would be worth far more than the $356 million Apple paid for AuthenTec, and the cloners would have no chance of copying the feature in an elegant way.
And, in a one-two punch, there may be a low-cost iPhone "5C" this year without the AuthenTec in-screen sensor. The iPhone lineup could end up looking like this:
iPhone "5S": with AuthenTec sensor that puts it above all other handsets.
iPhone "5C": lower-cost, no AuthenTec sensor, competes against Android clones.
Apple could have a high-end iPhone that no cloner could copy. And they could demote all iPhone clones to the level of the "5C" at a lower price point. Devastating from both technological and marketing viewpoints.
Did you know Google themselves are ditching NFC chips in there handsets ? You dont need NFC coz you already have Bluetooth, BLE as replacement tech.
And more importantly the wallet feature can be done with existing wireless technologies.
Ok... so when the comment is made "Passbook already is used more often then the NFC chips on Android." - you actually don't have a source- it's just pure speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark
So you haven't used it once and you say it sucks?
NFC is a fad. Companies need to buy special equipment to offer it. Passbook uses the scanners they have already. All they need to do is develop for it.
Of course I've used it, and unless I'm going to a movie, a baseball game, or a subway- it's useless. Saying "all they need to do is develop for it" doesn't make it any more useful- you are just agreeing that in it's current state- it is totally useless. Again- so when the comment is made "Passbook already is used more often then the NFC chips on Android." - you actually don't have a source- it's just pure speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections
You can dismiss Passbook, but it's actually being used and it's supported by a lot of major companies. And its getting increasing more sophisticated using stuff that works, rather than blowing out a lot of expensive infrastructure that doesn't.
so when the comment is made "Passbook already is used more often then the NFC chips on Android." - you actually don't have a source- it's just pure speculation.
I'm not claiming NFC is successful. But anyone trying to say Passbook is successful is either kidding themselves or totally delusional.
Just because it's anti-Google and Pro-Apple doesn't mean we can just throw words out there as fact. Particularly when they aren't.
It would be worth far more than the $356 million Apple paid for AuthenTec, and the cloners would have no chance of copying the feature in an elegant way.
And, in a one-two punch, there may be a low-cost iPhone "5C" this year without the AuthenTec in-screen sensor. The iPhone lineup could end up looking like this:
iPhone "5S": with AuthenTec sensor that puts it above all other handsets.
iPhone "5C": lower-cost, no AuthenTec sensor, competes against Android clones.
Apple could have a high-end iPhone that no cloner could copy. And they could demote all iPhone clones to the level of the "5C" at a lower price point. Devastating from both technological and marketing viewpoints.
You're putting way to much stock in a fingerprint scanner. There's way too many things that can go with your finger that will render it unreadable.
I have a Lenovo laptop that I got 6 years ago and it has a nice fingerprint sensor in it. It works great. It is mainly used for just logging in and then to open password manager. You just slide your finger along it.
I think Apple's will work very well and it should be quite handy
This is false. In the average large, North American city there are many people who's fingerprints are so similar as to come up as false positives on those scans you see on shows like CSI. Also, when they do that stuff in reallife, it's rarely a "100% positive or not" match like they show on TV. Sometimes multiple matches come up for different individuals, and it's a matter of interpretation as to what a "match" actually is or which is the closest match.
In practice, this is irrelevant in court, because if there are only three people in the city that match, most of the time the other two won't be on the database (because they aren't criminals), and therefore there will only be one match. Statistically however, in any given city there are others that *would* have matched, if every single citizen was fingerprinted and on the fingerprint database. Also, in the very rare case of multiple positive matches amongst the criminal population during an active investigation, they are most likely separated spatially, temporally, or by some other factor like age, gender etc.
If there is ever a day when 100% of the population is on a fingerprint database, as opposed to whatever it is now (20%?), it will be interesting to see how fingerprint scanners perform.
There is also the factor that the analysis is generally done on a set number of points that match up, perhaps if the number of points needed for a match are increased, then accuracy also increases and multiple hits would go down, but then a great deal of criminals would be let off the hook on the low end because this would turn a lot of the fingerprint evidence that's now accepted as a "match" into only a partial match.
All this may be true, but what are the odds of some nefarious person:
A) Having access to your phone, and:
2) Having fingerprints similar enough to yours to be mistaken for them?
If that probability is less than somebody:
1) Having your Debit/Credit card, and:
II) Guessing your PIN number,
then it's an improvement, because we all live with that every day. I say the first probability is lower, but I'm open to figures if you've got them.
Then you come to find out that as your sensor wears out, it just lets anyone in who swipes their finger.
When the sensor wears out, it simply won't work, I don't think it even has moving parts, you think when it "wears out" there is some sort of texture on there that will "smooth" out, and so rendering it blind? If its blind, then the scanned data simply won't match the stored data. How the phone handles a broken sensor I have no clue, probably password login.
Comments
Great posts!
If it is done right, it will give us such freedom and convenience that we'll never look back -- like replacing the hand crank on the automobile with the electric starter. (Yeah, I've cranked a few in my time -- a lot more difficult in a cold environment than removing a glove to use a touch screen).
I suspect Apple thinks they can do it -- having spent almost $400 million for the opportunity.
And, you can be sure Apple will do it right!
Originally Posted by AppleInsider
It if can pull off a functional fingerprint scanner, it stands to increase its lead by standing out in an otherwise poorly differentiated market.
It would be worth far more than the $356 million Apple paid for AuthenTec, and the cloners would have no chance of copying the feature in an elegant way.
And, in a one-two punch, there may be a low-cost iPhone "5C" this year without the AuthenTec in-screen sensor. The iPhone lineup could end up looking like this:
iPhone "5S": with AuthenTec sensor that puts it above all other handsets.
iPhone "5C": lower-cost, no AuthenTec sensor, competes against Android clones.
Apple could have a high-end iPhone that no cloner could copy. And they could demote all iPhone clones to the level of the "5C" at a lower price point. Devastating from both technological and marketing viewpoints.
Not if Texas cedes from the union, like they keep promising to. Then it would be different.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid
It would be worth far more than the $356 million Apple paid for AuthenTec, and the cloners would have no chance of copying the feature in an elegant way.
And, in a one-two punch, there may be a low-cost iPhone "5C" this year without the AuthenTec in-screen sensor. The iPhone lineup could end up looking like this:
iPhone "5S": with AuthenTec sensor that puts it above all other handsets.
iPhone "5C": lower-cost, no AuthenTec sensor, competes against Android clones.
Apple could have a high-end iPhone that no cloner could copy. And they could demote all iPhone clones to the level of the "5C" at a lower price point. Devastating from both technological and marketing viewpoints.
Yup.
Apple is going completely turn the industry upside-down when the 5C and 5S come.
The 5C will be as good as $600+ Androids for a fraction of the cost.
The 5S will be leaps and bounds better for the same price we've always paid.
Combine that with iOS which consumers are digging more than iOS 6, and we've got a recipe for a record breaking year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections
The Moto X is being built in Texas as a stunt. The reason why stuff is built in China is because it has tool and die expertise capable of setting up and reconfiguring a high production factory in days. The US couldn't do that in a year. US labor would add some cost, but not as much as you might think. The problem is the factories and manufacturing skills that America hasn't cultivated since the 60s.
This sounds like a repeat of Tim Cook at the All Things D conference, when he brought up certain factory skills in an attempt to deflect questions about Apple bringing their manufacturing back to the USA.
He commented something like, "All the remaining American tool-and-die makers could hardly fill this auditorium." It was a meaningless statistic used as a diversion for the naive, who would not check on it.
First off, by "makers", he must've meant "companies". There are still around five thousand USA tool-and-die companies. That's an average of 100 companies per state.
Secondly, he only needs a few of them at most. Each company likely employs up to a dozen skilled people, and with modern computer guided tools, they can outproduce many times the same number of Chinese workers who are still doing things by hand.
As for technical talent, a main reason why Samsung has built their latest chip plants in Texas, is because of the labor pool available around a technical American university.
There's also the consideration of long term ROI on training. At Foxconn, most laborers want to come in for a couple of years, make some money, then move back home. They're not in it for the long haul. Quality suffers when people are not willing to settle down with their families near a factory and take pride in the product.
As this blog points out:
Quote:
"The answer is simple – Cook is talking baloney. It ain’t true.
This is not about skilled tool and die markers, this is about having 8000 workers who are willing to roll out of bed, take a cup of tea and a biscuit, and jump onto a 12 hour shift to adapt to a last minute design change Apple mandates.
It’s about dealing with a country whose factories and workers are subsidized to the hilt by the Chinese government and by the substandard conditions these workers toil under.
It’s about having the Chinese government invest capital so Apple doesn’t have to."
The fact is, we have industries here in America such as automobile factories where tool and die are changed at least every year, and automobiles are a lot more complicated than an iPhone or iPad.
With the security of personal information, perhaps especially mobile device personal information becoming more and more recognized as critical, this sort of security technology including as it does the specificity inherent in biometry alongside the convenience of a touch sensor, makes total sense. A compelling implementation will be welcomed as issues such as San Francisco's and NYC's "Apple Picking" crimes keep arising.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton
Not if Texas cedes from the union, like they keep promising to. Then it would be different.
So true. What's "Designed in Cupertino, made in Tejas" in Spanish?
Smartphone thefts are usually crimes of opportunity (you left you iPhone behind in a public place or in your car). Amputations are not.
No lo sé
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton
Smartphone thefts are usually crimes of opportunity (you left you iPhone behind in a public place or in your car). Amputations are not.
Or like when Eddie Stark in 'Til Death went to the sleep clinic:
Eddie: "This isn't the place where they cut you up and harvest your organs, is it?"
Nurse: (Giggling) "Oh, no! That guy got fired."
Oh... I really like that approach!
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikilok
Did you know Google themselves are ditching NFC chips in there handsets ? You dont need NFC coz you already have Bluetooth, BLE as replacement tech.
And more importantly the wallet feature can be done with existing wireless technologies.
Ok... so when the comment is made "Passbook already is used more often then the NFC chips on Android." - you actually don't have a source- it's just pure speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark
So you haven't used it once and you say it sucks?
NFC is a fad. Companies need to buy special equipment to offer it. Passbook uses the scanners they have already. All they need to do is develop for it.
Of course I've used it, and unless I'm going to a movie, a baseball game, or a subway- it's useless. Saying "all they need to do is develop for it" doesn't make it any more useful- you are just agreeing that in it's current state- it is totally useless. Again- so when the comment is made "Passbook already is used more often then the NFC chips on Android." - you actually don't have a source- it's just pure speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections
You can dismiss Passbook, but it's actually being used and it's supported by a lot of major companies. And its getting increasing more sophisticated using stuff that works, rather than blowing out a lot of expensive infrastructure that doesn't.
so when the comment is made "Passbook already is used more often then the NFC chips on Android." - you actually don't have a source- it's just pure speculation.
I'm not claiming NFC is successful. But anyone trying to say Passbook is successful is either kidding themselves or totally delusional.
Just because it's anti-Google and Pro-Apple doesn't mean we can just throw words out there as fact. Particularly when they aren't.
You're putting way to much stock in a fingerprint scanner. There's way too many things that can go with your finger that will render it unreadable.
I think Apple's will work very well and it should be quite handy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soloman
There's just so many things that can render a fingerprint unreadable. A cut, a burn, a bruise, dirt, etc would probably prevent this from working.
then you just revert to the current way of entering pw's like you do now. so?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
This is false. In the average large, North American city there are many people who's fingerprints are so similar as to come up as false positives on those scans you see on shows like CSI. Also, when they do that stuff in real life, it's rarely a "100% positive or not" match like they show on TV. Sometimes multiple matches come up for different individuals, and it's a matter of interpretation as to what a "match" actually is or which is the closest match.
In practice, this is irrelevant in court, because if there are only three people in the city that match, most of the time the other two won't be on the database (because they aren't criminals), and therefore there will only be one match. Statistically however, in any given city there are others that *would* have matched, if every single citizen was fingerprinted and on the fingerprint database. Also, in the very rare case of multiple positive matches amongst the criminal population during an active investigation, they are most likely separated spatially, temporally, or by some other factor like age, gender etc.
If there is ever a day when 100% of the population is on a fingerprint database, as opposed to whatever it is now (20%?), it will be interesting to see how fingerprint scanners perform.
There is also the factor that the analysis is generally done on a set number of points that match up, perhaps if the number of points needed for a match are increased, then accuracy also increases and multiple hits would go down, but then a great deal of criminals would be let off the hook on the low end because this would turn a lot of the fingerprint evidence that's now accepted as a "match" into only a partial match.
All this may be true, but what are the odds of some nefarious person:
A) Having access to your phone, and:
2) Having fingerprints similar enough to yours to be mistaken for them?
If that probability is less than somebody:
1) Having your Debit/Credit card, and:
II) Guessing your PIN number,
then it's an improvement, because we all live with that every day. I say the first probability is lower, but I'm open to figures if you've got them.
Then you come to find out that as your sensor wears out, it just lets anyone in who swipes their finger.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lantzn
Then you come to find out that as your sensor wears out, it just lets anyone in who swipes their finger.
When the sensor wears out, it simply won't work, I don't think it even has moving parts, you think when it "wears out" there is some sort of texture on there that will "smooth" out, and so rendering it blind? If its blind, then the scanned data simply won't match the stored data. How the phone handles a broken sensor I have no clue, probably password login.
For all those that are so worried about the fingerprint scanner....fear not.
Seems that we don't have any real confirmation yet that there will be one other than rumors.
Well, the files in iOS itself.