From the link to that invasivecode.com article it seems we may never get a fingerprint sensor. Anyone read it, and thinks the same?
Yeah, I always though the retina scan would have been the better way to go … the iPhone's camera doesn't have this same degradation issue. Plus you could have multiple reference scans, 'just awake', 'normal', 'bloodshot (hung over)', 'just had a joint' and so on.
Seriously though, you have to think Apple have something up their sleeve this guy is unaware of don't you?
From the article:
"...Apple moved to quickly initiate a full acquisition for $365 million while paying an additional $27 million for the "right to acquire non-exclusive licenses and certain other rights with respect to hardware technology, software technology and patents of the Company"
Right to acquire non-exclusive licenses? So there are some rights that Apple did not get with the purchase which would imply that other companies have those rights? Confusing.
FWIW Pantech unveiled the Android-based Vega yesterday incorporating of all things a fingerprint sensor for authentication
"Pantech Vega LTE-A IM-A880S boasts of a fingerprint reader and touch sensor at the back of the device" Seems they have it backwards … LOL
From the link to that invasivecode.com article it seems we may never get a fingerprint sensor. Anyone read it, and thinks the same?
Based on the article the author says there will be a fingerprint sensor in the next iPhone but it will be the least secure of the available sensing methods and not appropriate for authenticating payments
Yeah, I always though the retina scan would have been the better way to go … the iPhone's camera doesn't have this same degradation issue. Plus you could have multiple reference scans, 'just awake', 'normal', 'bloodshot (hung over)', 'just had a joint' and so on.
HA!
Seriously though, you have to think Apple have something up their sleeve this guy is unaware of don't you?
I would like to think so, but after reading his article, and the other fingerprint capture method I don't see how they can make it work:
There are 2 kinds of fingerprint capture methods: touchless and touch-based fingerprint capture. I pioneered the first category. This capture technique requires a camera with very sophisticated optical lenses and a complex lighting system. The huge advantage of the touchless fingerprint devices compared to the touch-based ones is that, since the finger does not need to touch any rigid surfaces, the skin does not deform and the image captures very rich details that can make the recognition more accurate. Manufacturing costs are the main issue with this kind of devices and they cannot be miniaturized, so touchless fingerprint devices are not suitable for cellphones.
CMOS fingerprint device, you will find a number representing the lifetime of a device. That number is expressed in number of touches (before it completely dies). That number is provided in ideal conditions of usage and in a normal operating environment of temperature and humidity. But remember where you normally use your iPhone. You keep it in your “dirty" pockets, you leave it on different surfaces, and in humid and hot or cold and dry environments. Sometimes water drops on it or you forget it in your car under the sun. All these factors stress the working conditions of the sensor surface and contribute to speeding up its decay process. Unfortunately there is no existing solution to this.
For you, this means that a fingerprint sensor on your phone will break after a while. How long after you buy it? Well, that will depend on where you live, how you use it, where you use it, how careful you are with it, and how clean your hands are.
Feels like a gimmick to me. Don't get me wrong, I've had laptops and computers with fingerprint sensors on them and it was pretty cool, but in the end I stopped using them. My work HP laptop AuthenTec fingerprint reader was a fickle little bastard. Hopefully Apple can make it right.
HA!
I would like to think so, but after reading his article, and the other fingerprint capture method I don't see how they can make it work:
There are 2 kinds of fingerprint capture methods: touchless and touch-based fingerprint capture. I pioneered the first category. This capture technique requires a camera with very sophisticated optical lenses and a complex lighting system. The huge advantage of the touchless fingerprint devices compared to the touch-based ones is that, since the finger does not need to touch any rigid surfaces, the skin does not deform and the image captures very rich details that can make the recognition more accurate. Manufacturing costs are the main issue with this kind of devices and they cannot be miniaturized, so touchless fingerprint devices are not suitable for cellphones.
CMOS fingerprint device, you will find a number representing the lifetime of a device. That number is expressed in number of touches (before it completely dies). That number is provided in ideal conditions of usage and in a normal operating environment of temperature and humidity. But remember where you normally use your iPhone. You keep it in your “dirty" pockets, you leave it on different surfaces, and in humid and hot or cold and dry environments. Sometimes water drops on it or you forget it in your car under the sun. All these factors stress the working conditions of the sensor surface and contribute to speeding up its decay process. Unfortunately there is no existing solution to this.
For you, this means that a fingerprint sensor on your phone will break after a while. How long after you buy it? Well, that will depend on where you live, how you use it, where you use it, how careful you are with it, and how clean your hands are.
Here is an idea for an implementation of a finger print scanner that won't damage itself with time. What if some photographic technique can be used to snap the thumb that rests over the home button. The home button would be translucent black allowing certain spectrum of light to only pass through.
The reflected light from the thumb could be captured by regular camera light sensors and process the image obtained. That's gotta work fine. Except that such a technique can't be fused into a retina display or other similar screens.
I don't see this as being the next big thing of smart phones, don't get me wrong it was a really nice article and it might be nice to have but it is defiantly not a feature that many are seeking. Every Thinkpad I have ever bought has come with one and I am yet to use it, sure, yes having it on the screen is probably more inviting but I will still personally use a password. The smarter these phones get the dumber we become, I have no doubt that people will start forgetting their passwords if they start storing them in the bio-keychain program, they will probably change them less frequently making it easier for hackers. One of the reasons why I don't use Apples Keychain program in OSX, I like memorizing things, it makes me sharper and I it forces me to remember to change my password. This is a neat feature no doubt, I just don't think it will be the game changer that many of you perceive it as. I would probably be more impressed with an optical scanner, maybe that's the next step.
What Apple really needs to do is catch up with the big android phones that support multi touch while using gloves. That is a huge selling point for me that never really seems to be brought up, even by the companies who already have them.
And having always had a Lenovo with finger print reader, I think this is a bit gimmicky. It always worked flawlessly on the laptop but after the first few weeks, a password was just more convenient and I never used it since. Or just use facial recognition like android has. Lower security but sufficient for thieves because they don't know have any pictures of you.
Perhaps Google should consider a better authentication technique. Rather than drop flamebait in this thread better to wait for the AI article sure to post soon. Hint: It involves Chrome.
FWIW I agree with a couple other posters that fingerprint authentication may be more of a marketing thing than a truly secure log-in and authentication feature, at least for now. We'll know soon enough.
Perhaps Google should consider a better authentication technique. Rather than drop flamebait in this thread better to wait for the AI article sure to post soon. Hint: It involves Chrome.
Sounds like 'flamebait' to me. You might as well enlighten me what thing is coming to Chrome. TIA
What Apple really needs to do is catch up with the big android phones that support multi touch while using gloves. That is a huge selling point for me that never really seems to be brought up, even by the companies who already have them.
Won't the icons need to be bigger because of the glove? Won't it be easier to just take your glove off? For me, that would be a better way - hands down.
What Apple really needs to do is catch up with the big android phones that support multi touch while using gloves. That is a huge selling point for me that never really seems to be brought up, even by the companies who already have them.
And having always had a Lenovo with finger print reader, I think this is a bit gimmicky. It always worked flawlessly on the laptop but after the first few weeks, a password was just more convenient and I never used it since. Or just use facial recognition like android has. Lower security but sufficient for thieves because they don't know have any pictures of you.
Catchup with the android world like the NFC joke ? Apples the leader when it comes to showing the rest of the world how to move ahead. Sit back n watch.
Apple needs to bring in a disruptive tech to send the android device manufacturers on a wild goose hunt dismantling more iPhones to figure out the tech.
The impact of such a tech is huge. A world were all passwords, other info you want can be remembered in the iCloud Keychain and granted access with your thumb impression.
Imagine if you only had to touch your thumb to authenticate yourself all over the web and iOS Eco system. It's a big move towards advancements and better user experience.
The later part user experience would get a giant leap ahead with a small touch of a finger.
Those will still be there. You still need to sign in with your iTunes account and password for when you use iTunes on your Mac, PC, iPad, and iPod Touch. You still need Two-factor and 3 questions to help insure security.
The fingerprint will be only one additional layer of security. The rest need to be in place. Otherwise, crooks will simply cut off your fingers or hand to get by the fingerprint sensor.
Really? Someone's been watching too many spy movies. Why would anyone go through the trouble of cutting off someone's appendage? To gain access to my iTunes music???
The fingerprint will be only one additional layer of security. The rest need to be in place. Otherwise, crooks will simply cut off your fingers or hand to get by the fingerprint sensor.
The presence of biometric sensors would solve that instantaneously. No pulse detected? No authentication.
Catchup with the android world like the NFC joke ? Apples the leader when it comes to showing the rest of the world how to move ahead. Sit back n watch.
Apple needs to bring in a disruptive tech to send the android device manufacturers on a wild goose hunt dismantling more iPhones to figure out the tech.
The impact of such a tech is huge. A world were all passwords, other info you want can be remembered in the iCloud Keychain and granted access with your thumb impression.
Imagine if you only had to touch your thumb to authenticate yourself all over the web and iOS Eco system. It's a big move towards advancements and better user experience.
The later part user experience would get a giant leap ahead with a small touch of a finger.
Google+ auto-sign in already does this across the web and android eco system. Without the need for a gimmicky finger print reader. And I don't think android manufacturers look to Apple anymore. With 80% world market share, why would they?
I agree with you on NFC tho. I use it all the time but it's certainly a long way off (if ever) from anything useful. It's so much better than having to scan a phone's screen which I've seen fail over and over, and it's failed on me too. If only the infrastructure was there.
I don't see this as being the next big thing of smart phones, don't get me wrong it was a really nice article and it might be nice to have but it is defiantly not a feature that many are seeking. Every Thinkpad I have ever bought has come with one and I am yet to use it, sure, yes having it on the screen is probably more inviting but I will still personally use a password. The smarter these phones get the dumber we become, I have no doubt that people will start forgetting their passwords if they start storing them in the bio-keychain program, they will probably change them less frequently making it easier for hackers. One of the reasons why I don't use Apples Keychain program in OSX, I like memorizing things, it makes me sharper and I it forces me to remember to change my password. This is a neat feature no doubt, I just don't think it will be the game changer that many of you perceive it as. I would probably be more impressed with an optical scanner, maybe that's the next step.
You're swimming upstream alone here. Adding features is only about convenience. Do you listen to CDs or vinyl because it forces your ears to be sharper or do you just listen to MP3s? Do you only watch uncompressed HD for the benefit of your eyes or do you stream Netflix? No one wants to memorize passwords and if you give them a faster, possibly more secure (none of my passwords are secure at all) alternative, they will take it.
I'm sorry to say, but Samsung can copy anything Apple can do and sell it for far less. I doubt Apple will even be able to protect whatever touch-sensor patents it has in the court system because Samsung will find a way around it. Samsung is a far superior hardware company than Apple is. Samsung can try 100 permutations of any component or product in a short time while Apple plods along at a snail's pace. Samsung has the brightest teams of employees whose specific tasks are to reverse-engineer rival's products. I wouldn't be surprised if Samsung has project teams that number in the hundreds whereas Apple probably has only a dozen employees working on any particular project at one time. Samsung has only one goal. To steal rival's product market share and then totally dominate that particular industry. Apple as a company is too passive to protect itself from that type of thinking.
Nearly every hedge fund manager on the planet sees Apple's iPhone as no better than any cheap, plastic Android smartphone. They all say that the Android smartphone competition has gotten too strong for Apple to handle and Apple has already fallen behind. They say this without any doubts in their minds. What gets me angry is that Apple is sitting on a mountain of reserve cash and should be able to prevent smaller companies from having any advantage at all. If Apple comes out with a touch-sensor smartphone that becomes successful, I'm willing to bet Samsung will have a new touch-sensor smartphone on the market within months if not sooner and thereafter, every Android smartphone in the world will have a touch-sensor.
Comments
Yeah, I always though the retina scan would have been the better way to go … the iPhone's camera doesn't have this same degradation issue. Plus you could have multiple reference scans, 'just awake', 'normal', 'bloodshot (hung over)', 'just had a joint' and so on.
Seriously though, you have to think Apple have something up their sleeve this guy is unaware of don't you?
"Pantech Vega LTE-A IM-A880S boasts of a fingerprint reader and touch sensor at the back of the device" Seems they have it backwards … LOL
Based on the article the author says there will be a fingerprint sensor in the next iPhone but it will be the least secure of the available sensing methods and not appropriate for authenticating payments
HA!
I would like to think so, but after reading his article, and the other fingerprint capture method I don't see how they can make it work:
There are 2 kinds of fingerprint capture methods: touchless and touch-based fingerprint capture. I pioneered the first category. This capture technique requires a camera with very sophisticated optical lenses and a complex lighting system. The huge advantage of the touchless fingerprint devices compared to the touch-based ones is that, since the finger does not need to touch any rigid surfaces, the skin does not deform and the image captures very rich details that can make the recognition more accurate. Manufacturing costs are the main issue with this kind of devices and they cannot be miniaturized, so touchless fingerprint devices are not suitable for cellphones.
CMOS fingerprint device, you will find a number representing the lifetime of a device. That number is expressed in number of touches (before it completely dies). That number is provided in ideal conditions of usage and in a normal operating environment of temperature and humidity. But remember where you normally use your iPhone. You keep it in your “dirty" pockets, you leave it on different surfaces, and in humid and hot or cold and dry environments. Sometimes water drops on it or you forget it in your car under the sun. All these factors stress the working conditions of the sensor surface and contribute to speeding up its decay process. Unfortunately there is no existing solution to this.
For you, this means that a fingerprint sensor on your phone will break after a while. How long after you buy it? Well, that will depend on where you live, how you use it, where you use it, how careful you are with it, and how clean your hands are.
Feels like a gimmick to me. Don't get me wrong, I've had laptops and computers with fingerprint sensors on them and it was pretty cool, but in the end I stopped using them. My work HP laptop AuthenTec fingerprint reader was a fickle little bastard. Hopefully Apple can make it right.
The reflected light from the thumb could be captured by regular camera light sensors and process the image obtained. That's gotta work fine. Except that such a technique can't be fused into a retina display or other similar screens.
I don't see this as being the next big thing of smart phones, don't get me wrong it was a really nice article and it might be nice to have but it is defiantly not a feature that many are seeking. Every Thinkpad I have ever bought has come with one and I am yet to use it, sure, yes having it on the screen is probably more inviting but I will still personally use a password. The smarter these phones get the dumber we become, I have no doubt that people will start forgetting their passwords if they start storing them in the bio-keychain program, they will probably change them less frequently making it easier for hackers. One of the reasons why I don't use Apples Keychain program in OSX, I like memorizing things, it makes me sharper and I it forces me to remember to change my password. This is a neat feature no doubt, I just don't think it will be the game changer that many of you perceive it as. I would probably be more impressed with an optical scanner, maybe that's the next step.
What Apple really needs to do is catch up with the big android phones that support multi touch while using gloves. That is a huge selling point for me that never really seems to be brought up, even by the companies who already have them.
And having always had a Lenovo with finger print reader, I think this is a bit gimmicky. It always worked flawlessly on the laptop but after the first few weeks, a password was just more convenient and I never used it since. Or just use facial recognition like android has. Lower security but sufficient for thieves because they don't know have any pictures of you.
FWIW I agree with a couple other posters that fingerprint authentication may be more of a marketing thing than a truly secure log-in and authentication feature, at least for now. We'll know soon enough.
Sounds like 'flamebait' to me. You might as well enlighten me what thing is coming to Chrome. TIA
Won't the icons need to be bigger because of the glove? Won't it be easier to just take your glove off? For me, that would be a better way - hands down.
Catchup with the android world like the NFC joke ? Apples the leader when it comes to showing the rest of the world how to move ahead. Sit back n watch.
Apple needs to bring in a disruptive tech to send the android device manufacturers on a wild goose hunt dismantling more iPhones to figure out the tech.
The impact of such a tech is huge. A world were all passwords, other info you want can be remembered in the iCloud Keychain and granted access with your thumb impression.
Imagine if you only had to touch your thumb to authenticate yourself all over the web and iOS Eco system. It's a big move towards advancements and better user experience.
The later part user experience would get a giant leap ahead with a small touch of a finger.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jameskatt2
Those will still be there. You still need to sign in with your iTunes account and password for when you use iTunes on your Mac, PC, iPad, and iPod Touch. You still need Two-factor and 3 questions to help insure security.
The fingerprint will be only one additional layer of security. The rest need to be in place. Otherwise, crooks will simply cut off your fingers or hand to get by the fingerprint sensor.
Really? Someone's been watching too many spy movies. Why would anyone go through the trouble of cutting off someone's appendage? To gain access to my iTunes music???
I'll take that chance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jameskatt2
The fingerprint will be only one additional layer of security. The rest need to be in place. Otherwise, crooks will simply cut off your fingers or hand to get by the fingerprint sensor.
The presence of biometric sensors would solve that instantaneously. No pulse detected? No authentication.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikilok
Catchup with the android world like the NFC joke ? Apples the leader when it comes to showing the rest of the world how to move ahead. Sit back n watch.
Apple needs to bring in a disruptive tech to send the android device manufacturers on a wild goose hunt dismantling more iPhones to figure out the tech.
The impact of such a tech is huge. A world were all passwords, other info you want can be remembered in the iCloud Keychain and granted access with your thumb impression.
Imagine if you only had to touch your thumb to authenticate yourself all over the web and iOS Eco system. It's a big move towards advancements and better user experience.
The later part user experience would get a giant leap ahead with a small touch of a finger.
Google+ auto-sign in already does this across the web and android eco system. Without the need for a gimmicky finger print reader. And I don't think android manufacturers look to Apple anymore. With 80% world market share, why would they?
I agree with you on NFC tho. I use it all the time but it's certainly a long way off (if ever) from anything useful. It's so much better than having to scan a phone's screen which I've seen fail over and over, and it's failed on me too. If only the infrastructure was there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic
I don't see this as being the next big thing of smart phones, don't get me wrong it was a really nice article and it might be nice to have but it is defiantly not a feature that many are seeking. Every Thinkpad I have ever bought has come with one and I am yet to use it, sure, yes having it on the screen is probably more inviting but I will still personally use a password. The smarter these phones get the dumber we become, I have no doubt that people will start forgetting their passwords if they start storing them in the bio-keychain program, they will probably change them less frequently making it easier for hackers. One of the reasons why I don't use Apples Keychain program in OSX, I like memorizing things, it makes me sharper and I it forces me to remember to change my password. This is a neat feature no doubt, I just don't think it will be the game changer that many of you perceive it as. I would probably be more impressed with an optical scanner, maybe that's the next step.
You're swimming upstream alone here. Adding features is only about convenience. Do you listen to CDs or vinyl because it forces your ears to be sharper or do you just listen to MP3s? Do you only watch uncompressed HD for the benefit of your eyes or do you stream Netflix? No one wants to memorize passwords and if you give them a faster, possibly more secure (none of my passwords are secure at all) alternative, they will take it.
Or better yet, Siri dialing 911, explaining the situation.
Nearly every hedge fund manager on the planet sees Apple's iPhone as no better than any cheap, plastic Android smartphone. They all say that the Android smartphone competition has gotten too strong for Apple to handle and Apple has already fallen behind. They say this without any doubts in their minds. What gets me angry is that Apple is sitting on a mountain of reserve cash and should be able to prevent smaller companies from having any advantage at all. If Apple comes out with a touch-sensor smartphone that becomes successful, I'm willing to bet Samsung will have a new touch-sensor smartphone on the market within months if not sooner and thereafter, every Android smartphone in the world will have a touch-sensor.