I know better then to listen to Android trolls posting on Apple fan sites. If I would have listened to them they would have said the same thing about the Nexus 7 flash problem. "What problem??? I have had mine for ever and all my buddies too.. and have been using it since day one.. its all lies, lies I tell you. Nexus 7 has no problem." -troll
Actually, I am pretty sure they have pretty much said that almost verbatium here in the forums.
Google.. focus on quality? they had TRIM support in the kernel but never bothered to turn it on... only to fix the problem one year later. ha ha... laughable. Now you are going to tell me they are going to watch out for walware in their store and the platform prevents this? right.
It's no different than when there's supposedly problem with a iOS device and many on here state that they haven't experienced it. I believe the users more than some problem that the media has decided to blow out of proportion.
Google has been shipping Android for a few years now. Never sued anyone over it yet no matter who's used it, cloned it, forked it, or "borrowed an Android feature". Google is far from aggressive with it's IP.
So we're back to "Motorola and Google are different" today?
Please make up your mind which side of that argument you're going to use and then stick with it.
So we're back to "Motorola and Google are different" today?
Please make up your mind which side of that argument you're going to use and then stick with it.
I've never wavered from it.
IMO Google has kept Motorola at arm's length at least so far. The most recent MotoX smartphone doesn't have the latest Android version, yet Google's own devices do. Motorola Mobility uses a skin on top of Android, while Google's own are pure Android. Google's Nexus devices are built by specific partners rather than by their subsidiary Motorola Mobility (tho eventually Moto will be in line too). Instead of absorbing MM Google made them a separately managed subsidiary with their own BOD. Rather than Google making all the legal decisions MM has it's own General Counsel. These are hardly the actions of a company who's micro-managing an acquisition are they?
I have never experienced zero gravity in space, but I believe what I read if its makes logical sense to me. Google makes an ad platform design to exploit the user, its not about protecting users. Its no surprise to me that it is more prone to malware more than a platform design for the best product experience including protecting the user.
Obviously there is malware, there's just way too many reports of it's existence. All I'm saying that it's not as bad as its been made out to be. I'm sure you leave your house regardless of the dangers there are in the world. You wear your seat belt, follow traffic signs, drive the speed limit or not too much above and you get to and fro safely and in one piece. People just need to pick their apps more wisely and it's not a hard thing to do. Read reviews and see how many times its been downloaded. It's all right there in the app description.
FWIW, we have slightly more Apple products in our household than Android products.
2 Macbook Pros
1 iMac
2 iPhones
2 iPod Touches
1 iPod Nano
2 Android Phones
2 Android Nexus 7 tablets
So I would say my experience of both platforms is pretty broad. I can say with 100% certainty that I have encountered as many software quality issues on Apple devices as on Android devices. (including several hardware issues on Apple devices, HDD failure on iMac, keyboard cable failure on Macbook pro, replaced iPhone due to hardware failure).
You may live in a world of denial and internet hype but I live in a practical world and deal with these issues on a day to day basis.
I never said Apple was perfect. However, I've been using Apple products since 1977, have sold their products to many corporate and gov agencies as a reseller rep since the mid-80's to the year 2000. Sure, I've had some minor problems, but NONE that were as bad as Microsoft nor as bad as my Android using friends, some of which have bought iPhone 5's and I haven't heard a single complaint from them.
Obviously, software isn't perfect, hardware can have failures, especially with mobile devices since they are put through much worse conditions than a desktop. We don't live in a perfect world, nor did I say that Apple doesn't have problems. I've never had to replace Apple supplied memory for not working. I have several times with third party memory. I've never had an Apple supplied hard drive fail, but I'm aware that there was some bad Seagate drives that did emerge, but Apple does a swap on those. But it's not that often from my experience, and I've sold a TON of product and my customers would keep me up to date on any problems. So, from my experience, Apple has an excellent track record. The optical drive problems is mostly because optical drives being vertically mounted might be more problematic, plus optical drives in general aren't that reliable, which is why Apple is removing them, which nowadays makes sense to only use external drives when you need to.
But, they at LEAST do a LOT more about removing malware potential, they have a MUCH better way of releasing s/w and OS updates so we, the users, can get bug fixes and security fixes the day they release them. Plus, the products work well with other Apple products, which ANY company is supposed to do. Meaning Apple should design their products to work well with other Apple products, Microsoft with other Microsoft products, etc. All companies try to do that. But getting products to work with other brands of products? Well, some are easier to work with than others and depending on whether they want to invest in doing it to be able to recoup their investment. Sometimes it makes sense to do so and sometimes it doesn't.
I am appalled that the Android community isn't up in arms about not getting updates on OEM Android products. To me, that's just unacceptable. That's why I won't support or buy an Android product. I think it's a STUPID way to do business. Plus, I find companies that like to sell a product cheap to get money from ad revenue/ad clicks for a major publicly traded company is not what I think is a good business practice. I'm surprised people don't realize how bad it is for companies to not be allowed to obtain a reasonable amount of profit margin. It's what drives the economy since those profits afford the companies to still exist so they can hire people, invest in new technology and thrive. Nothing wrong with making a profit. Look at Apple, they make a decent profit, and when their profits slide, they get hammered by the analysts. They make what I would consider a REASONABLE profit overall for that type of business. IBM, Compaq, HP and others USED to make similar profit margins, but not since the low ball clone mfg came into the market and screwed up for everyone.
My iPhone 4, which some think is a POS has worked flawlessly, not a single problem. My new iMac I only had to redo the OS install because there were some updates but it's pretty much stable as it can get since the last update and the method for which it does the OS is so much better than having a DVD. So other than that. I don't have any complaints. Apple answers their phones in a timely manner, I have nothing but good experiences with the people i've interacted with. Remember, I used to be in constant contact with Compaq, HP, Microsoft, Cisco, and other mfg during my tenure in the computer reseller industry and Apple has had a great track record of taking care of business. Microsoft was the worst which is one of the many reasons WHY I don't use their OS. I do use Office, but that's because I'm used to it.
So don't just assume that I think Apple is perfect, they aren't. I wish they had a large screen phone by now, and hoping they release one soon. But, they are putting in the features that I've submitted requests in their feedback site and I like the fact that they have that and I have a good experience that many of my requests do transform into something I can use.
It's no different than when there's supposedly problem with a iOS device and many on here state that they haven't experienced it. I believe the users more than some problem that the media has decided to blow out of proportion.
ok.. I'll give you honest first had non-hearsay experience.
the device works fine brand new. After about a year's worth of use it starts slowing down and starts crashing often.
I first saw first hard and heard this directly from friends with Windows PCs. No hearsay of he said, she said.
Now I see and hear the same thing with Android from first hand use and again directly from friends. Again, no hearsay or he said, she said.
Sadly the easiest and least time consuming solution for many of my friends and most consumers has been the same. Just buy a "NEW" computer or phone to fix the problem. I am sure many of you are laughing and nodding your head right now.. except the trolls.
I am sure for many people on this forum this is not the first time they have heard of this phenomena. Was it virus, malware, spyware? who knows. most people will never get to the bottom of it.. but I can tell you this for sure..in most cases its not a HW problem but SW quality related problem. . and until Google starts shipping protection in Android like Microsoft ships protection in Windows they will never claim it was due to malware which sneaked past Google or the crappy Android SW platform stack itself.
I can also tell you this... I have NEVER had this problem with Macs, iPhones or iPad from first hand use and nor have my friends. The friends which have switch from Windows to Mac and Android to iPhone/iPad have never looked back and their devices have not slowed down or started crashing like they did with PC's and Android devices. no hearsay, no he said, no she said about it. Fact!
ok.. I'll give you honest first had non-hearsay experience.
the device works fine brand new. After about a year's worth of use it starts slowing down and starts crashing often.
I first saw first hard and heard this directly from friends with Windows PCs. No hearsay of he said, she said.
Now I see and hear the same thing with Android from first hand use and again directly from friends. Again, no hearsay or he said, she said.
Sadly the easiest and least time consuming solution for many of my friends and most consumers has been the same. Just buy a "NEW" computer or phone to fix the problem. I am sure many of you are laughing and nodding your head right now.. except the trolls.
I am sure for many people on this forum this is not the first time they have heard of this phenomena. Was it virus, malware, spyware? who knows. most people will never get to the bottom of it.. but I can tell you this for sure..in most cases its not a HW problem but SW quality related problem. . and until Google starts shipping protection in Android like Microsoft ships protection in Windows they will never claim it was due to malware which sneaked past Google or the crappy Android SW platform stack itself.
I can also tell you this... I have NEVER had this problem with Macs, iPhones or iPad from first hand use and nor have my friends. The friends which have switch from Windows to Mac and Android to iPhone/iPad have never looked back and their devices have not slowed down or started crashing like they did with PC's and Android devices. no hearsay, no he said, no she said about it. Fact!
I believe you because I've never had that problem with my iPad mini or my iPod Touch but I've also never had a problem with my GNex. Btw I used to get a ton of malware on Win XP but it I haven't had a single incident with Win 7.
Obviously there is malware, there's just way too many reports of it's existence. All I'm saying that it's not as bad as its been made out to be. I'm sure you leave your house regardless of the dangers there are in the world. You wear your seat belt, follow traffic signs, drive the speed limit or not too much above and you get to and fro safely and in one piece. People just need to pick their apps more wisely and it's not a hard thing to do. Read reviews and see how many times its been downloaded. It's all right there in the app description.
well, from what I've read, some of the malware goes undetected taking your information without your knowledge, so how would people know?
Yeah, we can only do what can do, but most people don't have virus protection s/w, nor do they run other apps that can check.
I had a Windows laptop with virus s/w and a virus took out the hard drive so it wouldn't boot up and I had a hell of a time recovering the data and I was PISSED off when I couldn't boot the thing to do a presentation for a room full of technical people on a multi million dollar project. Luckily I got through the presentation. but it's just a horrific experience I've NEVER had on a Mac. EVER. And this same virus was rampant in the industry at the time, many others in the same company had it as well as other large high tech companies. This was back in 2001. I had other driver issues with the same Windows laptop, it just was a horrible experience and this was a top of the line brand new Toshiba and I always took good care of it. Oh well. Never again.
I believe you because I've never had that problem with my iPad mini or my iPod Touch but I've also never had a problem with my GNex. Btw I used to get a ton of malware on Win XP but it I haven't had a single incident with Win 7.
FWIW, we have slightly more Apple products in our household than Android products.
2 Macbook Pros
1 iMac
2 iPhones
2 iPod Touches
1 iPod Nano
2 Android Phones
2 Android Nexus 7 tablets
So I would say my experience of both platforms is pretty broad. I can say with 100% certainty that I have encountered as many software quality issues on Apple devices as on Android devices. (including several hardware issues on Apple devices, HDD failure on iMac, keyboard cable failure on Macbook pro, replaced iPhone due to hardware failure).
You may live in a world of denial and internet hype but I live in a practical world and deal with these issues on a day to day basis.
my entire dialog was about SW platform quality. You said you had SW problem on Apple product but then you only listed HW problems. I want to call you on this. Specifically what SW platform problem have you had which has not been fixed in a timely manner?
While you are at it how about telling us which Android specific phones you have, how long you have own them and when was the last time you got a SW update for those phones in a timely manner. As I have already said.. the personal experience I have had and my friends have had with the with Windows and Android SW platforms is that they run well when new but then they slow down after about a years time and start crashing often.
We already know how long the SW platform update cycle is for the N7 and follows the experience pattern I discussed above.
I'm already finding them too invasive with their "personalized ads" and totally lacking privacy policies.
These days, I visit a company website (directly, not even using a web search) and suddenly that company's ads are filling the ad slots on every other website I visit. It's creepy. Right now, I've got T-Mobile, Audi and B&H Camera ads on every page because I happened to visit those sites earlier today. All those ads are being served by Google (or is it Amazon?). How does Google know I just visited those sites? Weirder still is, I click on the little "Ad Choice" icon present on some ads, and it takes me to an Amazon preferences page? WTH? I've been logged out of my Amazon account for over a year (on purpose) and even cleared all Amazon cookies.
I'm not happy that Google (or Amazon) somehow knows where I've been every step of the way. How are they getting that information?
As for maps, well%u2026 I'm already unhappy with Google for forcing YouTube ads on us. They force an ad on me for almost every video I watch (at least a 5-second "preview", and one in three vids an entire, no-choice-but-to-watch ad). That's as high or higher ratio than watching regular broadcast TV. I almost never go there anymore. I mostly visit Vimeo now, and use Vimeo exclusively for video uploads.
I'm not going to reward them by using Google Maps for iOS. The original ad-free maps app, or Apple maps will do just fine.
my entire dialog was about SW platform quality. You said you had SW problem on Apple product but then you only listed HW problems. I want to call you on this. Specifically what SW platform problem have you had which has not been fixed in a timely manner?
While you are at it how about telling us which Android specific phones you have, how long you have own them and when was the last time you got a SW update for those phones in a timely manner. As I have already said.. the personal experience I have had and my friends have had with the with Windows and Android SW platforms is that they run well when new but then they slow down after about a years time and start crashing often.
We already know how long the SW platform update cycle is for the N7 and follows the experience pattern I discussed above.
I'll start with these that have been going on forever..
* constant time machine failures while backing up to external NAS
* macbook Pro unresponsive on wake from sleep
* have to type password in twice on macbook pro wake from sleep, characters get lost from first attempt, screen flashes black
* Software update cancelled restart (which I did from software update)
* Regular spinning beachball when doing basic stuff
* Weird screen switching behavior that I've just resigned myself to.
* takes about 5 seconds from when I hit the volume button on iMac for the UI to respond
All my Macs are on Snow Leopard.
I could go on and on, but I know your response is going to be "well mine doesn't do that, therefore I don't believe you"
Galaxy S4,got an update in July, is at 4.2.2, owned about one month, replaced a Nexus 4 that was at 4.2.1
Nexus 4, currently at 4.3, owned for one year, works better than when I got it because of improvements in Jellybean
Both Nexus 7 tablets currently at 4.3, owned for over a year, also performing better than when originally purchased.
You see I really have no idea what you are talking about, and I suspect you don't either.
no disrespect but I am not so sure there is a direct link between malware and closed/open. Windows is closed. Linux is open.
The nature of *nix based operating system architecture makes it less prone to the common types of 'malware' experienced by Windows (and now strangely Android) users.
That is not to say it's immune, of course. Just "less prone" (e.g. there are worms and other kinds of attacks designed for *nix, but I've never heard of an effective self-replicating/spreading "virus" on the *nix platform). Since OSX is a *nix based OS, and iOS is a derivative of that, one presumes that iOS devices are also probably 'less prone' to these kinds of malware than others might be.
To the people who say "I've never had malware issues on my Android device" I ask this:
Obvious "issues" aside, how do you KNOW you've never had any malware on your device?
Most of the malware I've read about isn't designed to be obvious (on the contrary), but rather is designed to hijack certain features of your device (and in some cases steal data outright), and use those for the hacker's own purpose.
"Zombie networks" are one of those. How do you know your device isn't a part of a zombie network? Do you run regular virus scans?
I'm already finding them too invasive with their "personalized ads" and totally lacking privacy policies.
These days, I visit a company website (directly, not even using a web search) and suddenly that company's ads are filling the ad slots on every other website I visit. It's creepy. Right now, I've got T-Mobile, Audi and B&H Camera ads on every page because I happened to visit those sites earlier today. All those ads are being served by Google (or is it Amazon?). How does Google know I just visited those sites? Weirder still is, I click on the little "Ad Choice" icon present on some ads, and it takes me to an Amazon preferences page? WTH? I've been logged out of my Amazon account for over a year (on purpose) and even cleared all Amazon cookies.
I'm not happy that Google (or Amazon) somehow knows where I've been every step of the way. How are they getting that information?
If you're curious what trackers are used by the websites you visit and get an idea "how they get that information" add Little Snitch or Ghostery. They both let you see who's following you and allows you to block a few or all of them. You'll be surprised at how many trackers have nothing to do with Google.
why do we even bother to have this conversion... I can hear the response now.. "this is all hearsay.. you didn't know the T-mobiles rep personally do you????. so its all hearsay!!!".. on and on.. like just all be blind, deaf, and mute monkeys. hear no evil, see no evil, say no evil. "Google does no evil. and there is no malware/spyware on Android. and I am going to hold by breath until I turn blue until all your Apple fans believe me!!!!"
sounds like a waste of time on both sides. go preach to an Android web site. you are spinning your wheels here.
I don't waste my time on an Android site, just like Android users shouldn't preach on an Apple site.
Well, I could care less about the Android platform. The cons out weight the pros. PERIOD.
Same reason why I don't use LInux or Windows. The cons out weight the pros.
If i actually ran into a situation where i needed a server to perform a certain task, the OS would not be the first thing I choose. I have to go through the apps to do that task first and THEN figure out what platform(s) it ran on. Then I would go through which ever platforms of OS and Hardware and then make my choice. But I wouldn't necessarily just go with Linux, or Windows or any specific brand of Unix (IBM, Sun, HP) until I selected the application first. I would also probably talk to reference accounts from each platform that actually run the various apps in a similar environment to see what THEIR pros and cons and personal experience was. BUt I'm not some IDIOT that selects the OS first when there is a specific server based app. The price of the OS is so insignificant compared to the price of the hardware, app, support contracts, implementation, etc. that just because some OS if Free does NOT mean better. I also have to find out what expertise I had available amongst my IT staff on what their comfort level is and if I needed to send them through training. I've seen various people that are hard core LInux people discuss the pros and cons of Linux and there are a LOT of concerns that they have with LInux and these are hard core Linux users. The one thing is I would ONLY deal with a company that is publicly traded if at all possible. REASON? They are more likely to stick around if they have a proven track record and are profitable. Nothing worse than dumping a lot of money in a small company on a large, expensive project to find out one of the key components closes their doors because they can't make any money. I look at all of the aspects of my decision making process before I dump lots of money into a project. I've dealt with customers that have made great and not so great choices and I've seen what a bad choice can do. i kind of take the I'll spend a little more to ensure peace of mind before going with the lowest cost solution. I've seen what happens when a company goes with the lowest price bidder. I've seen companies get sued after they won a bid and couldn't perform as stated in the contract. I've seen that nightmare. Sometimes it's better to just pay the money and have peace of mind that your business partner is making a decent profit to be there years down the road. So this Linux is Open Source, Free BS doesn't make a damn bit of difference to me. If it makes sense to use it, then I will, but I have to have a REAL legitimate reason to do so.
I have a long time friend that was an Unix admin at Exodus, which hosted sites by all of the major web sites. eBay, Yahoo, Hotmail, basically the who's who of these various sites. Each company basically rented a cage where they dropped their equipment in and they had HUGE buildings with lots of different cages. It's funny to go from one cage where they have a bunch of motherboards (not in a case) stacked up on top of one another running Hotmail, which I believe was running a flavor of Linux to an Massive Sun Enterprise class server with tons of processors, storage. It's a NIGHT and day difference in which one is a more reliable set up. My friend told me which ones were more problematic. Hotmail was NOT the most reliable set up, but it was definitely about the cheapest. But it's interesting to see which company uses which hardware/OS and apps and which are the most reliable and unreliable. In a large server deployment where it's serving hundreds or thousands of people, reliability is a Number 1 priority, but most flavors of Unix have a proven track record. I think for the longest time Sun servers were the most popular amongst the large web servers. I haven't read the latest market share for different types of server apps, but Linux is run on Supercomputers, but that's not necessarily serving lots of transactions amongst a large group of people. Supercomputer sometimes are not serving lots of people, but just doing number crunching to run scenarios. So, there different concerns to deal with, but IBM does well in the Supercomputer platform with their version of Unix running on their mainframes. So it all what proves to be the most reliable and secure that runs the app that serves it's purpose the best.
I'll start with these that have been going on forever..
* constant time machine failures while backing up to external NAS
* macbook Pro unresponsive on wake from sleep
* have to type password in twice on macbook pro wake from sleep, characters get lost from first attempt, screen flashes black
* Software update cancelled restart (which I did from software update)
* Regular spinning beachball when doing basic stuff
* Weird screen switching behavior that I've just resigned myself to.
* takes about 5 seconds from when I hit the volume button on iMac for the UI to respond
All my Macs are on Snow Leopard.
I could go on and on, but I know your response is going to be "well mine doesn't do that, therefore I don't believe you"
Galaxy S4,got an update in July, is at 4.2.2, owned about one month, replaced a Nexus 4 that was at 4.2.1
Nexus 4, currently at 4.3, owned for one year, works better than when I got it because of improvements in Jellybean
Both Nexus 7 tablets currently at 4.3, owned for over a year, also performing better than when originally purchased.
You see I really have no idea what you are talking about, and I suspect you don't either.
actually no, I will be honest with you. I have seen some of those problems before. However, I don't currently have ANY of those problems and I own a lot more Macs then you do.
NAS: -- Extra NAS? Can you elaborate. It is a Time Capsule of third party NAS which attempts to support Apple TM running Linux. I had the problem you describe before when I was attempt to go cheap and use Linux based NAS box for Time Machine back up. I had to hack on my Linux's AFS server software to get it to be more reliable and it was for a while until I upgrade to next version of Mac OS X. Then it broke again. Finally.. I just said "screw it, time is money, and bought a Time Capsule". Works flawlessly and I was shocked how little time and effort it took to set up. I suppose some may consider third party/linux based NAS trying to support Time Machine, an Apple SW quality issue?
As to delay from sleep delay, I have seen things like that before in two situations:
1. when I had multiple users logged did not have enough RAM in my system. It took a very long time to get back out of sleep. Not sure I would label that a SW quality issue, I just did not have enough RAM.
2. the other situation I had was when I upgrade my OS I still had the older incompatible Virtual Machine driver installed from either VMWare , Parallels or VirtualBox. I dont remember which. I think these VM's also messed with my sleep setting. I would look to see if you have compatible version of VMWare, Parallels or VirtualBox installed along with associated drivers which are automatically started with the OS upon boot regardless of if you run the the VM app or not. Not sure if I would label that an Apple SW quality issue or not. Maybe. Argument could be made that Apple should search for all known older incompatible kernel drivers from third parties and warn the user. The experience could be better.. I guess I should be glad there are not too many 3rd party kernel drivers to cause these kind of problems. Unlike Windows.
take a look at the pmset setting and see if it it looks sane to you. Hope this ends up helpful to you. All uninstall the 3rd party VM driver completely to see if the problem goes away.
on other area I would check out is USB devices. try to unplug all USB devices and swap out keyboard/mouse if you have another set handy. Sometimes I have seen bad USB HW do weird stuff like generate massive amounts of interrupts upon wake.
I would not go jumping up and down saying how great Android just yet based on that year old Nexus 4. Good luck to you.
Comments
It's no different than when there's supposedly problem with a iOS device and many on here state that they haven't experienced it. I believe the users more than some problem that the media has decided to blow out of proportion.
So we're back to "Motorola and Google are different" today?
Please make up your mind which side of that argument you're going to use and then stick with it.
I've never wavered from it.
IMO Google has kept Motorola at arm's length at least so far. The most recent MotoX smartphone doesn't have the latest Android version, yet Google's own devices do. Motorola Mobility uses a skin on top of Android, while Google's own are pure Android. Google's Nexus devices are built by specific partners rather than by their subsidiary Motorola Mobility (tho eventually Moto will be in line too). Instead of absorbing MM Google made them a separately managed subsidiary with their own BOD. Rather than Google making all the legal decisions MM has it's own General Counsel. These are hardly the actions of a company who's micro-managing an acquisition are they?
Obviously there is malware, there's just way too many reports of it's existence. All I'm saying that it's not as bad as its been made out to be. I'm sure you leave your house regardless of the dangers there are in the world. You wear your seat belt, follow traffic signs, drive the speed limit or not too much above and you get to and fro safely and in one piece. People just need to pick their apps more wisely and it's not a hard thing to do. Read reviews and see how many times its been downloaded. It's all right there in the app description.
Quote:
Originally Posted by patpatpat
FWIW, we have slightly more Apple products in our household than Android products.
2 Macbook Pros
1 iMac
2 iPhones
2 iPod Touches
1 iPod Nano
2 Android Phones
2 Android Nexus 7 tablets
So I would say my experience of both platforms is pretty broad. I can say with 100% certainty that I have encountered as many software quality issues on Apple devices as on Android devices. (including several hardware issues on Apple devices, HDD failure on iMac, keyboard cable failure on Macbook pro, replaced iPhone due to hardware failure).
You may live in a world of denial and internet hype but I live in a practical world and deal with these issues on a day to day basis.
I never said Apple was perfect. However, I've been using Apple products since 1977, have sold their products to many corporate and gov agencies as a reseller rep since the mid-80's to the year 2000. Sure, I've had some minor problems, but NONE that were as bad as Microsoft nor as bad as my Android using friends, some of which have bought iPhone 5's and I haven't heard a single complaint from them.
Obviously, software isn't perfect, hardware can have failures, especially with mobile devices since they are put through much worse conditions than a desktop. We don't live in a perfect world, nor did I say that Apple doesn't have problems. I've never had to replace Apple supplied memory for not working. I have several times with third party memory. I've never had an Apple supplied hard drive fail, but I'm aware that there was some bad Seagate drives that did emerge, but Apple does a swap on those. But it's not that often from my experience, and I've sold a TON of product and my customers would keep me up to date on any problems. So, from my experience, Apple has an excellent track record. The optical drive problems is mostly because optical drives being vertically mounted might be more problematic, plus optical drives in general aren't that reliable, which is why Apple is removing them, which nowadays makes sense to only use external drives when you need to.
But, they at LEAST do a LOT more about removing malware potential, they have a MUCH better way of releasing s/w and OS updates so we, the users, can get bug fixes and security fixes the day they release them. Plus, the products work well with other Apple products, which ANY company is supposed to do. Meaning Apple should design their products to work well with other Apple products, Microsoft with other Microsoft products, etc. All companies try to do that. But getting products to work with other brands of products? Well, some are easier to work with than others and depending on whether they want to invest in doing it to be able to recoup their investment. Sometimes it makes sense to do so and sometimes it doesn't.
I am appalled that the Android community isn't up in arms about not getting updates on OEM Android products. To me, that's just unacceptable. That's why I won't support or buy an Android product. I think it's a STUPID way to do business. Plus, I find companies that like to sell a product cheap to get money from ad revenue/ad clicks for a major publicly traded company is not what I think is a good business practice. I'm surprised people don't realize how bad it is for companies to not be allowed to obtain a reasonable amount of profit margin. It's what drives the economy since those profits afford the companies to still exist so they can hire people, invest in new technology and thrive. Nothing wrong with making a profit. Look at Apple, they make a decent profit, and when their profits slide, they get hammered by the analysts. They make what I would consider a REASONABLE profit overall for that type of business. IBM, Compaq, HP and others USED to make similar profit margins, but not since the low ball clone mfg came into the market and screwed up for everyone.
My iPhone 4, which some think is a POS has worked flawlessly, not a single problem. My new iMac I only had to redo the OS install because there were some updates but it's pretty much stable as it can get since the last update and the method for which it does the OS is so much better than having a DVD. So other than that. I don't have any complaints. Apple answers their phones in a timely manner, I have nothing but good experiences with the people i've interacted with. Remember, I used to be in constant contact with Compaq, HP, Microsoft, Cisco, and other mfg during my tenure in the computer reseller industry and Apple has had a great track record of taking care of business. Microsoft was the worst which is one of the many reasons WHY I don't use their OS. I do use Office, but that's because I'm used to it.
So don't just assume that I think Apple is perfect, they aren't. I wish they had a large screen phone by now, and hoping they release one soon. But, they are putting in the features that I've submitted requests in their feedback site and I like the fact that they have that and I have a good experience that many of my requests do transform into something I can use.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69
It's no different than when there's supposedly problem with a iOS device and many on here state that they haven't experienced it. I believe the users more than some problem that the media has decided to blow out of proportion.
ok.. I'll give you honest first had non-hearsay experience.
the device works fine brand new. After about a year's worth of use it starts slowing down and starts crashing often.
I first saw first hard and heard this directly from friends with Windows PCs. No hearsay of he said, she said.
Now I see and hear the same thing with Android from first hand use and again directly from friends. Again, no hearsay or he said, she said.
Sadly the easiest and least time consuming solution for many of my friends and most consumers has been the same. Just buy a "NEW" computer or phone to fix the problem. I am sure many of you are laughing and nodding your head right now.. except the trolls.
I am sure for many people on this forum this is not the first time they have heard of this phenomena. Was it virus, malware, spyware? who knows. most people will never get to the bottom of it.. but I can tell you this for sure..in most cases its not a HW problem but SW quality related problem. . and until Google starts shipping protection in Android like Microsoft ships protection in Windows they will never claim it was due to malware which sneaked past Google or the crappy Android SW platform stack itself.
I can also tell you this... I have NEVER had this problem with Macs, iPhones or iPad from first hand use and nor have my friends. The friends which have switch from Windows to Mac and Android to iPhone/iPad have never looked back and their devices have not slowed down or started crashing like they did with PC's and Android devices. no hearsay, no he said, no she said about it. Fact!
I believe you because I've never had that problem with my iPad mini or my iPod Touch but I've also never had a problem with my GNex. Btw I used to get a ton of malware on Win XP but it I haven't had a single incident with Win 7.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69
Obviously there is malware, there's just way too many reports of it's existence. All I'm saying that it's not as bad as its been made out to be. I'm sure you leave your house regardless of the dangers there are in the world. You wear your seat belt, follow traffic signs, drive the speed limit or not too much above and you get to and fro safely and in one piece. People just need to pick their apps more wisely and it's not a hard thing to do. Read reviews and see how many times its been downloaded. It's all right there in the app description.
well, from what I've read, some of the malware goes undetected taking your information without your knowledge, so how would people know?
Yeah, we can only do what can do, but most people don't have virus protection s/w, nor do they run other apps that can check.
I had a Windows laptop with virus s/w and a virus took out the hard drive so it wouldn't boot up and I had a hell of a time recovering the data and I was PISSED off when I couldn't boot the thing to do a presentation for a room full of technical people on a multi million dollar project. Luckily I got through the presentation. but it's just a horrific experience I've NEVER had on a Mac. EVER. And this same virus was rampant in the industry at the time, many others in the same company had it as well as other large high tech companies. This was back in 2001. I had other driver issues with the same Windows laptop, it just was a horrible experience and this was a top of the line brand new Toshiba and I always took good care of it. Oh well. Never again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69
I believe you because I've never had that problem with my iPad mini or my iPod Touch but I've also never had a problem with my GNex. Btw I used to get a ton of malware on Win XP but it I haven't had a single incident with Win 7.
Here's a good link site to cruise through.
https://isc.sans.edu/links.html
What is that link meant to show? I'm tired and probably missing it.
Looking through it now. Thanks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by patpatpat
FWIW, we have slightly more Apple products in our household than Android products.
2 Macbook Pros
1 iMac
2 iPhones
2 iPod Touches
1 iPod Nano
2 Android Phones
2 Android Nexus 7 tablets
So I would say my experience of both platforms is pretty broad. I can say with 100% certainty that I have encountered as many software quality issues on Apple devices as on Android devices. (including several hardware issues on Apple devices, HDD failure on iMac, keyboard cable failure on Macbook pro, replaced iPhone due to hardware failure).
You may live in a world of denial and internet hype but I live in a practical world and deal with these issues on a day to day basis.
my entire dialog was about SW platform quality. You said you had SW problem on Apple product but then you only listed HW problems. I want to call you on this. Specifically what SW platform problem have you had which has not been fixed in a timely manner?
While you are at it how about telling us which Android specific phones you have, how long you have own them and when was the last time you got a SW update for those phones in a timely manner. As I have already said.. the personal experience I have had and my friends have had with the with Windows and Android SW platforms is that they run well when new but then they slow down after about a years time and start crashing often.
We already know how long the SW platform update cycle is for the N7 and follows the experience pattern I discussed above.
I'm already finding them too invasive with their "personalized ads" and totally lacking privacy policies.
These days, I visit a company website (directly, not even using a web search) and suddenly that company's ads are filling the ad slots on every other website I visit. It's creepy. Right now, I've got T-Mobile, Audi and B&H Camera ads on every page because I happened to visit those sites earlier today. All those ads are being served by Google (or is it Amazon?). How does Google know I just visited those sites? Weirder still is, I click on the little "Ad Choice" icon present on some ads, and it takes me to an Amazon preferences page? WTH? I've been logged out of my Amazon account for over a year (on purpose) and even cleared all Amazon cookies.
I'm not happy that Google (or Amazon) somehow knows where I've been every step of the way. How are they getting that information?
As for maps, well%u2026 I'm already unhappy with Google for forcing YouTube ads on us. They force an ad on me for almost every video I watch (at least a 5-second "preview", and one in three vids an entire, no-choice-but-to-watch ad). That's as high or higher ratio than watching regular broadcast TV. I almost never go there anymore. I mostly visit Vimeo now, and use Vimeo exclusively for video uploads.
I'm not going to reward them by using Google Maps for iOS. The original ad-free maps app, or Apple maps will do just fine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by snova
my entire dialog was about SW platform quality. You said you had SW problem on Apple product but then you only listed HW problems. I want to call you on this. Specifically what SW platform problem have you had which has not been fixed in a timely manner?
While you are at it how about telling us which Android specific phones you have, how long you have own them and when was the last time you got a SW update for those phones in a timely manner. As I have already said.. the personal experience I have had and my friends have had with the with Windows and Android SW platforms is that they run well when new but then they slow down after about a years time and start crashing often.
We already know how long the SW platform update cycle is for the N7 and follows the experience pattern I discussed above.
I'll start with these that have been going on forever..
* constant time machine failures while backing up to external NAS
* macbook Pro unresponsive on wake from sleep
* have to type password in twice on macbook pro wake from sleep, characters get lost from first attempt, screen flashes black
* Software update cancelled restart (which I did from software update)
* Regular spinning beachball when doing basic stuff
* Weird screen switching behavior that I've just resigned myself to.
* takes about 5 seconds from when I hit the volume button on iMac for the UI to respond
All my Macs are on Snow Leopard.
I could go on and on, but I know your response is going to be "well mine doesn't do that, therefore I don't believe you"
Galaxy S4,got an update in July, is at 4.2.2, owned about one month, replaced a Nexus 4 that was at 4.2.1
Nexus 4, currently at 4.3, owned for one year, works better than when I got it because of improvements in Jellybean
Both Nexus 7 tablets currently at 4.3, owned for over a year, also performing better than when originally purchased.
You see I really have no idea what you are talking about, and I suspect you don't either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by snova
no disrespect but I am not so sure there is a direct link between malware and closed/open. Windows is closed. Linux is open.
The nature of *nix based operating system architecture makes it less prone to the common types of 'malware' experienced by Windows (and now strangely Android) users.
That is not to say it's immune, of course. Just "less prone" (e.g. there are worms and other kinds of attacks designed for *nix, but I've never heard of an effective self-replicating/spreading "virus" on the *nix platform). Since OSX is a *nix based OS, and iOS is a derivative of that, one presumes that iOS devices are also probably 'less prone' to these kinds of malware than others might be.
To the people who say "I've never had malware issues on my Android device" I ask this:
Obvious "issues" aside, how do you KNOW you've never had any malware on your device?
Most of the malware I've read about isn't designed to be obvious (on the contrary), but rather is designed to hijack certain features of your device (and in some cases steal data outright), and use those for the hacker's own purpose.
"Zombie networks" are one of those. How do you know your device isn't a part of a zombie network? Do you run regular virus scans?
Quote:
Originally Posted by tribalogical
I'm not happy that Google (or Amazon) somehow knows where I've been every step of the way. How are they getting that information?
http://www.techsupportalert.com/content/find-out-everything-google-knows-about-you.htm
If you're curious what trackers are used by the websites you visit and get an idea "how they get that information" add Little Snitch or Ghostery. They both let you see who's following you and allows you to block a few or all of them. You'll be surprised at how many trackers have nothing to do with Google.
so ... let me check some facts. do you see an ad every time you open Google maps? or with every search? or just sometimes?
Quote:
Originally Posted by snova
why do we even bother to have this conversion... I can hear the response now.. "this is all hearsay.. you didn't know the T-mobiles rep personally do you????. so its all hearsay!!!".. on and on.. like just all be blind, deaf, and mute monkeys. hear no evil, see no evil, say no evil. "Google does no evil. and there is no malware/spyware on Android. and I am going to hold by breath until I turn blue until all your Apple fans believe me!!!!"
sounds like a waste of time on both sides. go preach to an Android web site. you are spinning your wheels here.
I don't waste my time on an Android site, just like Android users shouldn't preach on an Apple site.
Well, I could care less about the Android platform. The cons out weight the pros. PERIOD.
Same reason why I don't use LInux or Windows. The cons out weight the pros.
If i actually ran into a situation where i needed a server to perform a certain task, the OS would not be the first thing I choose. I have to go through the apps to do that task first and THEN figure out what platform(s) it ran on. Then I would go through which ever platforms of OS and Hardware and then make my choice. But I wouldn't necessarily just go with Linux, or Windows or any specific brand of Unix (IBM, Sun, HP) until I selected the application first. I would also probably talk to reference accounts from each platform that actually run the various apps in a similar environment to see what THEIR pros and cons and personal experience was. BUt I'm not some IDIOT that selects the OS first when there is a specific server based app. The price of the OS is so insignificant compared to the price of the hardware, app, support contracts, implementation, etc. that just because some OS if Free does NOT mean better. I also have to find out what expertise I had available amongst my IT staff on what their comfort level is and if I needed to send them through training. I've seen various people that are hard core LInux people discuss the pros and cons of Linux and there are a LOT of concerns that they have with LInux and these are hard core Linux users. The one thing is I would ONLY deal with a company that is publicly traded if at all possible. REASON? They are more likely to stick around if they have a proven track record and are profitable. Nothing worse than dumping a lot of money in a small company on a large, expensive project to find out one of the key components closes their doors because they can't make any money. I look at all of the aspects of my decision making process before I dump lots of money into a project. I've dealt with customers that have made great and not so great choices and I've seen what a bad choice can do. i kind of take the I'll spend a little more to ensure peace of mind before going with the lowest cost solution. I've seen what happens when a company goes with the lowest price bidder. I've seen companies get sued after they won a bid and couldn't perform as stated in the contract. I've seen that nightmare. Sometimes it's better to just pay the money and have peace of mind that your business partner is making a decent profit to be there years down the road. So this Linux is Open Source, Free BS doesn't make a damn bit of difference to me. If it makes sense to use it, then I will, but I have to have a REAL legitimate reason to do so.
I have a long time friend that was an Unix admin at Exodus, which hosted sites by all of the major web sites. eBay, Yahoo, Hotmail, basically the who's who of these various sites. Each company basically rented a cage where they dropped their equipment in and they had HUGE buildings with lots of different cages. It's funny to go from one cage where they have a bunch of motherboards (not in a case) stacked up on top of one another running Hotmail, which I believe was running a flavor of Linux to an Massive Sun Enterprise class server with tons of processors, storage. It's a NIGHT and day difference in which one is a more reliable set up. My friend told me which ones were more problematic. Hotmail was NOT the most reliable set up, but it was definitely about the cheapest. But it's interesting to see which company uses which hardware/OS and apps and which are the most reliable and unreliable. In a large server deployment where it's serving hundreds or thousands of people, reliability is a Number 1 priority, but most flavors of Unix have a proven track record. I think for the longest time Sun servers were the most popular amongst the large web servers. I haven't read the latest market share for different types of server apps, but Linux is run on Supercomputers, but that's not necessarily serving lots of transactions amongst a large group of people. Supercomputer sometimes are not serving lots of people, but just doing number crunching to run scenarios. So, there different concerns to deal with, but IBM does well in the Supercomputer platform with their version of Unix running on their mainframes. So it all what proves to be the most reliable and secure that runs the app that serves it's purpose the best.
Quote:
Originally Posted by patpatpat
I'll start with these that have been going on forever..
* constant time machine failures while backing up to external NAS
* macbook Pro unresponsive on wake from sleep
* have to type password in twice on macbook pro wake from sleep, characters get lost from first attempt, screen flashes black
* Software update cancelled restart (which I did from software update)
* Regular spinning beachball when doing basic stuff
* Weird screen switching behavior that I've just resigned myself to.
* takes about 5 seconds from when I hit the volume button on iMac for the UI to respond
All my Macs are on Snow Leopard.
I could go on and on, but I know your response is going to be "well mine doesn't do that, therefore I don't believe you"
Galaxy S4,got an update in July, is at 4.2.2, owned about one month, replaced a Nexus 4 that was at 4.2.1
Nexus 4, currently at 4.3, owned for one year, works better than when I got it because of improvements in Jellybean
Both Nexus 7 tablets currently at 4.3, owned for over a year, also performing better than when originally purchased.
You see I really have no idea what you are talking about, and I suspect you don't either.
actually no, I will be honest with you. I have seen some of those problems before. However, I don't currently have ANY of those problems and I own a lot more Macs then you do.
NAS: -- Extra NAS? Can you elaborate. It is a Time Capsule of third party NAS which attempts to support Apple TM running Linux. I had the problem you describe before when I was attempt to go cheap and use Linux based NAS box for Time Machine back up. I had to hack on my Linux's AFS server software to get it to be more reliable and it was for a while until I upgrade to next version of Mac OS X. Then it broke again. Finally.. I just said "screw it, time is money, and bought a Time Capsule". Works flawlessly and I was shocked how little time and effort it took to set up. I suppose some may consider third party/linux based NAS trying to support Time Machine, an Apple SW quality issue?
As to delay from sleep delay, I have seen things like that before in two situations:
1. when I had multiple users logged did not have enough RAM in my system. It took a very long time to get back out of sleep. Not sure I would label that a SW quality issue, I just did not have enough RAM.
2. the other situation I had was when I upgrade my OS I still had the older incompatible Virtual Machine driver installed from either VMWare , Parallels or VirtualBox. I dont remember which. I think these VM's also messed with my sleep setting. I would look to see if you have compatible version of VMWare, Parallels or VirtualBox installed along with associated drivers which are automatically started with the OS upon boot regardless of if you run the the VM app or not. Not sure if I would label that an Apple SW quality issue or not. Maybe. Argument could be made that Apple should search for all known older incompatible kernel drivers from third parties and warn the user. The experience could be better.. I guess I should be glad there are not too many 3rd party kernel drivers to cause these kind of problems. Unlike Windows.
take a look at the pmset setting and see if it it looks sane to you. Hope this ends up helpful to you. All uninstall the 3rd party VM driver completely to see if the problem goes away.
http://www.macobserver.com/tmo/article/osx_lion_pmset_shows_app_imposed_sleep/
on other area I would check out is USB devices. try to unplug all USB devices and swap out keyboard/mouse if you have another set handy. Sometimes I have seen bad USB HW do weird stuff like generate massive amounts of interrupts upon wake.
I would not go jumping up and down saying how great Android just yet based on that year old Nexus 4. Good luck to you.