Anything's possible, I guess, but this rumor wouldn't seem to work well with current Authentec sensors.
A covering for capacitive or RF is usally only a few microns thick. Can sapphire slices be made that thin? Wouldn't carving out a convex version be extremely wasteful, too?
Not to mention that convex sounds like a terrible idea in one's pocket. A button sticking out is going to get clicked all the time. That was the whole idea behind the current concave design... to not easily be accidentally clicked.
Also, the home button isn't big enough for a whole-finger scanner, so you'd need to swipe, and a raised button sounds like it would easily get clicked.
I just don't see this whole idea of a scanner in the Home button anyway. Next to it would make more sense. Unless the whole idea is that waking up the phone by punching the Home button, fully authenticates the user for the entire time that the phone remains awake.
For a "senior handheld and touch developer" you don't seem to have much of an imagination. But since your location is "somewhere," and I'm sure that "somewhere" isn't Apple, it's not too surprising. Oh well, at least there are a lot of intelligent commenters on here with a lot of great ideas you can mooch off of. Good luck with that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DroidFTW
Does AuthenTec get none of the credit for all their work before being purchased?
That comment makes you sound like a whiny B. Just a heads up.
Will the phone store your own fingerprint so it knows its you when you unlock the phone? If so, do we have assurances that no one will collect said fingerprints in a database?
I have a feeling people who talk about Material Science Engineering while never being immersed in the field should stop wasting their time conjecturing on subjects they have zero comprehension about.
The rumored cheap iPhone getting this? Probably not right ... tsk, I was thinking of getting the 5C if its real.
Anyway, one positive of having it on the home button is that screen protectors won't need another hole for the scanner area. Not like I use those, degrades the screen quality.
Will the phone store your own fingerprint so it knows its you when you unlock the phone? If so, do we have assurances that no one will collect said fingerprints in a database?
Of course, the phone needs a source to match the scan with, its like setting a password for a website login, you define it then the next time you login, the website tries to match your username and password against a database. But how do they match finger print scans to records, beats me.
Can someone lift my fingerprints CSI style from my desk or mug or something, then make a fake prosthetic finger out of it? Probably, but no one would go through that kind of trouble for my stupid phone, that's for sure.
AuthenTec, the biometric security firm Apple purchased <a href="http://appleinsider.com/articles/12/07/27/apple_to_acquire_security_firm_authentec_for_356m">in 2012</a>, uses leading-edge capacitive and RF technologies in its biometric chips, a method that images fingerprints differently than existing optics-based systems. Kuo believes the tech is superior as the sensor is not subject to misreadings due to the build up of detritus or dust.
Ohhh...I always wanted to use the word "detritus" in a sentence.
Samsung will probably offer a smartphone with similar technology shortly after the new iPhone is introduced and by early next year, all Android smartphones will have fingerprint sensors. Anything Apple does that becomes successful will be quickly copied by rivals and there's nothing Apple can do about it. I doubt any patent is airtight and as far as I can tell from past experience, Samsung can reverse engineer any component with the greatest of ease. That's one huge advantage Samsung has over Apple. They never have any qualms about copying rival's technology and in fact they're rather proud of that ability. Why reinvent the wheel if someone else already has one?
Then why wouldn't Smarmy reverse engineer and copy Apple's A processors? They are superior to what Smarmy has and they are manufactured by Smarmy.
In the light of the whole NSA Prism saga, does anyone now have concerns about a device that captures literally everything we say and everywhere we go and now with a fingerprint sensor to personally identify you?
Just saying...
Seems to me that the front side camera does far a better job identifying you, maybe that should also be of your concern. My point is if you don‘t trust the company then fingerprint or no fingerprint doesn‘t really matter since they would already have almost everything that identifies you, including your name.
And what this scanner gives quite probably won‘t match your fingerprint "optical" image
Sept 10 will be interesting. Given the recent government spying scandal, I think there's going to be a serious discussion of the security and privacy implications of having every iPhone user's fingerprints right there available for the hacking.
Edit: s.metcalf beat me to it.
I agree, people are nervous and trust in government is probably at an all time low or if not close to it. Fingerprint sensing is all of a sudden a bad look for Apple. The timing couldn't be worse.
If you think this through, fingerprint verification will limit/prevent unauthorized access to your phone. the data stored therein and access to passwords, security, payment transactions, etc.
Adding fingerprint authorization doesn't give the government more or easier access to the phone.
And, as I understand it, the Apple reader does not use a format that is compatible or interchangeable with existing fingerprints- such as the FBI fingerprint files.
Further, the hashed fingerprint verification file(s) will be stored on the device and not transmitted anywhere.
I don't know why people keep thinking your fingerprint will be stored somewhere as a simple image or that someone could copy it. Do you think passwords are stored as plain text? There will be a mathematical formula that converts your fingerprint into some type of data that can't be converted back to a fingerprint.
Others have mentioned that fingerprints are not 100% unique. Irrelevant. This is not going to be something that's used to identify you among all the hundreds of millions of other iOS users. It's simply a method to verify if the proper owner of the iPhone is actually trying to use it. It would also be very secure for mobile payments as the odds of your iPhone getting into the hands of someone with a close-enough fingerprint to fool it are astronomical.
The button also doesn't have to be big enough to read your entire finger/thumb. Why would it? When the iPhone is set up you could perform several "passes" so your entire print is analyzed. When unlocking your iPhone it only needs to see a portion of your finger/thumb print to see it if matches up with your entire finger/thumb. This also makes the device more user-friendly as you don't have to be exact with how you place your finger/thumb (unlike face unlock which can be picky at times). This will make it fast to use, which is something I'm sure Apple will be picky about.
Of course, the phone needs a source to match the scan with, its like setting a password for a website login, you define it then the next time you login, the website tries to match your username and password against a database. But how do they match finger print scans to records, beats me.
Can someone lift my fingerprints CSI style from my desk or mug or something, then make a fake prosthetic finger out of it? Probably, but no one would go through that kind of trouble for my stupid phone, that's for sure.
Why would that be necessary? Isn‘t it far simpler to match the "input" to the scan stored in your phone so that you can access your stored credentials for whatever service you want to use?
With this type of scanner it isn’t easy to fake a finger capable of reproducing the necessary reader signature! It doesn‘t necessarily match your fingerprint "optical" image, quite probably it won‘t
Will the phone store your own fingerprint so it knows its you when you unlock the phone? If so, do we have assurances that no one will collect said fingerprints in a database?
Of course, the phone needs a source to match the scan with, its like setting a password for a website login, you define it then the next time you login, the website tries to match your username and password against a database. But how do they match finger print scans to records, beats me.
Can someone lift my fingerprints CSI style from my desk or mug or something, then make a fake prosthetic finger out of it? Probably, but no one would go through that kind of trouble for my stupid phone, that's for sure.
According to what I've read, this is new technology that analyzes 3D information below the surface of the skin. A "lifted" print is of no use.
It won't be convex. That's stupid. It will be concave or flat.
But Apples already become expert at manipulating sapphire with the camera lenses. A home button is a possibility. There is already plenty of room to work with.
I may be alone, but I don't give a flying %#*¥ about this unless it gives me an iWallet.
My phone is constantly in my pocket unless I'm home. I don't lock my phone with a pin now, because of this. So I can't get excited about a secure way to do something I don't do as it is. Obvs, other folks could use this, but for me it's just an extra step with no reward.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling
Anything's possible, I guess, but this rumor wouldn't seem to work well with current Authentec sensors.
A covering for capacitive or RF is usally only a few microns thick. Can sapphire slices be made that thin? Wouldn't carving out a convex version be extremely wasteful, too?
Not to mention that convex sounds like a terrible idea in one's pocket. A button sticking out is going to get clicked all the time. That was the whole idea behind the current concave design... to not easily be accidentally clicked.
Also, the home button isn't big enough for a whole-finger scanner, so you'd need to swipe, and a raised button sounds like it would easily get clicked.
I just don't see this whole idea of a scanner in the Home button anyway. Next to it would make more sense. Unless the whole idea is that waking up the phone by punching the Home button, fully authenticates the user for the entire time that the phone remains awake.
For a "senior handheld and touch developer" you don't seem to have much of an imagination. But since your location is "somewhere," and I'm sure that "somewhere" isn't Apple, it's not too surprising. Oh well, at least there are a lot of intelligent commenters on here with a lot of great ideas you can mooch off of. Good luck with that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DroidFTW
Does AuthenTec get none of the credit for all their work before being purchased?
That comment makes you sound like a whiny B. Just a heads up.
Will the phone store your own fingerprint so it knows its you when you unlock the phone? If so, do we have assurances that no one will collect said fingerprints in a database?
The rumored cheap iPhone getting this? Probably not right ... tsk, I was thinking of getting the 5C if its real.
Anyway, one positive of having it on the home button is that screen protectors won't need another hole for the scanner area. Not like I use those, degrades the screen quality.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bondm16
Will the phone store your own fingerprint so it knows its you when you unlock the phone? If so, do we have assurances that no one will collect said fingerprints in a database?
Of course, the phone needs a source to match the scan with, its like setting a password for a website login, you define it then the next time you login, the website tries to match your username and password against a database. But how do they match finger print scans to records, beats me.
Can someone lift my fingerprints CSI style from my desk or mug or something, then make a fake prosthetic finger out of it? Probably, but no one would go through that kind of trouble for my stupid phone, that's for sure.
Ohhh...I always wanted to use the word "detritus" in a sentence.
Then why wouldn't Smarmy reverse engineer and copy Apple's A processors? They are superior to what Smarmy has and they are manufactured by Smarmy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by s.metcalf
In the light of the whole NSA Prism saga, does anyone now have concerns about a device that captures literally everything we say and everywhere we go and now with a fingerprint sensor to personally identify you?
Just saying...
Seems to me that the front side camera does far a better job identifying you, maybe that should also be of your concern. My point is if you don‘t trust the company then fingerprint or no fingerprint doesn‘t really matter since they would already have almost everything that identifies you, including your name.
And what this scanner gives quite probably won‘t match your fingerprint "optical" image
If you think this through, fingerprint verification will limit/prevent unauthorized access to your phone. the data stored therein and access to passwords, security, payment transactions, etc.
Adding fingerprint authorization doesn't give the government more or easier access to the phone.
And, as I understand it, the Apple reader does not use a format that is compatible or interchangeable with existing fingerprints- such as the FBI fingerprint files.
Further, the hashed fingerprint verification file(s) will be stored on the device and not transmitted anywhere.
Well reasoned and well said!
Quote:
Originally Posted by murman
Of course, the phone needs a source to match the scan with, its like setting a password for a website login, you define it then the next time you login, the website tries to match your username and password against a database. But how do they match finger print scans to records, beats me.
Can someone lift my fingerprints CSI style from my desk or mug or something, then make a fake prosthetic finger out of it? Probably, but no one would go through that kind of trouble for my stupid phone, that's for sure.
Why would that be necessary? Isn‘t it far simpler to match the "input" to the scan stored in your phone so that you can access your stored credentials for whatever service you want to use?
With this type of scanner it isn’t easy to fake a finger capable of reproducing the necessary reader signature! It doesn‘t necessarily match your fingerprint "optical" image, quite probably it won‘t
According to what I've read, this is new technology that analyzes 3D information below the surface of the skin. A "lifted" print is of no use.
Many opportunities have passed, with the various articles on Samsung ¡
I don't; it's needed for a hard reset/boot, amongst others.
But Apples already become expert at manipulating sapphire with the camera lenses. A home button is a possibility. There is already plenty of room to work with.
My phone is constantly in my pocket unless I'm home. I don't lock my phone with a pin now, because of this. So I can't get excited about a secure way to do something I don't do as it is. Obvs, other folks could use this, but for me it's just an extra step with no reward.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton
Cue the finger-amputating thieves posts...
No cigar. Authentec technology will not be deceived by prints from a "dead" finger, allegedly...