If apple release a number its going to be on the 23rd when it can report the 5c and 5s combined. The last thing Apple will do is report specifics on which phone sells the best.
They will likely release separate numbers. They want folks to know that the 5c is selling. What they won't likely do is break it down by country. Or as you say, do it before launch weekend is over.
Maps was not a misstep. In order to create a quality mapping program one needs feedback information that occurs by millions of people using that software. Google had the lead by far. Have you tried it on iOS7? Apple does much that is equal to or better than Google.
More importantly, the maps switch away from Google was part of the coordinated process of removing Google and Samsung from profiting off of Apple innovation. Since the courts would not protect Apple's (or anybody's) intellectual property in the tech field in a timely fashion, Apple had to ditch these leaches. Doing so would and is seriously hurting both companies as they lose Apple income. Google is having trouble making money off of mobile advertising. As they lose Apple's map revenue (from advertising) and Apple search functions (Google is not a serious player in the Chinese market for search) and as Android is not-upgradable like Apple, which cuts out enterprise, Google loses over time which is why it bought Motorola so they could begin to switch to Apples closed OS business model as is Microsoft, shutting out Samsung. Samsung is losing giant Apple income as Apple switched to other manufacturers ASAP and leaves Samsung without the ability to copy Apple until they can reverse engineer a new products. Even then, they have to guess at what Apple intends to do with that new tech such as the new A7 and M7 processors.
Bottom line, Steve Jobs was really mad about their partners in business stealing inside information to directly compete and Tim is following through. That takes time.
As the new phone and tablets as well as the iWatch and new Apple TV actually are in customers hands and developers have the time to make use of these hidden upgrades we will see Apple profits soar.
Please keep in mind that the last 3 Google Phones did not make them any money!
Apple makes money! Why is everyone questioning their business sense?
Apple has been announcing first day pre-order numbers since 2009. It didn't do it with the 5C.
Lots of reasons why it didn't release the numbers. Take your pick.
The question is why Apple chose to do a pre order for the colored iPhone and not the 5s. Because normally the Monday after a pre release Apple does supply sales figures. Yet they never provide figures by model. Last year they said 3 million iPads but never broken them down between the mini and regular sized iPad. The way Apple went about this whole launch is a bit odd.
They will likely release separate numbers. They want folks to know that the 5c is selling. What they won't likely do is break it down by country. Or as you say, do it before launch weekend is over.
?... and if they don't release separate numbers, it will be, naturally, because one phone or the other is not selling well...
They will likely release separate numbers. They want folks to know that the 5c is selling. What they won't likely do is break it down by country. Or as you say, do it before launch weekend is over.
But Apple has never done that before. They didn't do it with the iPad mini. If Apple really wanted people to know the colored iPhone is selling we would have had sales figures this morning. Unless of course sales figures aren't that great.
There's one reason for the downgrades: Wall Street expected the unlocked price of colored iPhone to be cheaper than it is. Plain and simple.
Even when Schiller said that Apple doesn't do cheap. Like Tim's 'supply chain checks can be tricky' Schiller was telling the analysts they are wrong and to change the tune without saying it bluntly. They were too dumb to listen. Or they have been keeping up the schtick on purpose to create a short.
Apple will release sales numbers after the first weekend of actual sales. Keep in mind that we can not believe Samsung reports as they only report units shipped and millions did not sell or were sold at serious discounts.
Android is in trouble. Google knows it. In time, they will likely fix their problems with a closed eco-system on their own products. Apple has a big head-start. That is because of Tim's ability to keep secret what Apple is doing and make the analysts look very foolish.
Wall Street would prefer to listen to Peter Misek than Tim Cook. That in itself shows Tim Cook is a very lousy CEO when it comes to getting across to investors. I doubt any CEO would take it in the backside like Tim Cook is. Apple as a company is extremely wealthy and should have a lot of clout outside of Wall Street. Any other CEO would probably fire back at that Jefferies firm with both barrels and threaten the firm with defamation and spreading false information. However it's possible Apple is continuing to buy back shares and it could be working in Apple's favor. With Apple, I really can't tell, so even from my view as a shareholder, Apple's continuing stock slide could be a blessing in disguise as long as Apple continues to buy back shares.
People can vent all they want about analysts -- I'd be the first one to say that this Jefferies guy is one giant embarrassment to his company -- but they're not going anywhere anytime soon.
Financial markets just don't seem remotely convinced by Tim Cook.
The unassailable empirical fact remains that in the past year+, every time Cook has gone out there and opened his mouth -- whether at ATD, keynotes, quarterly earnings calls, you name it -- AAPL has taken a significant tumble. You can look it up. He makes his shareholders nervous. I personally think that, in part, it's because he conveys no vision, no 30,000-foot view of the business.
I think this can change, but people need to recognize first that there is an issue here.
Maps was not a misstep. In order to create a quality mapping program one needs feedback information that occurs by millions of people using that software. Google had the lead by far. Have you tried it on iOS7? Apple does much that is equal to or better than Google.
More importantly, the maps switch away from Google was part of the coordinated process of removing Google and Samsung from profiting off of Apple innovation. Since the courts would not protect Apple's (or anybody's) intellectual property in the tech field in a timely fashion, Apple had to ditch these leaches. Doing so would and is seriously hurting both companies as they lose Apple income. Google is having trouble making money off of mobile advertising. As they lose Apple's map revenue (from advertising) and Apple search functions (Google is not a serious player in the Chinese market for search) and as Android is not-upgradable like Apple, which cuts out enterprise, Google loses over time which is why it bought Motorola so they could begin to switch to Apples closed OS business model as is Microsoft, shutting out Samsung. Samsung is losing giant Apple income as Apple switched to other manufacturers ASAP and leaves Samsung without the ability to copy Apple until they can reverse engineer a new products. Even then, they have to guess at what Apple intends to do with that new tech such as the new A7 and M7 processors.
Bottom line, Steve Jobs was really mad about their partners in business stealing inside information to directly compete and Tim is following through. That takes time.
As the new phone and tablets as well as the iWatch and new Apple TV actually are in customers hands and developers have the time to make use of these hidden upgrades we will see Apple profits soar.
Please keep in mind that the last 3 Google Phones did not make them any money!
Apple makes money! Why is everyone questioning their business sense?
Both the A6 in the 5c and the A7 in the are dual sourced. Chipworks will eventually show this. A8 sourcing will not be finalized until the fabs mature their 20nm offerings. It was not the secrecy around 64-bit, but the under-reported dual sourcing of both A6 and A7 that misled Misek and his followers. Tim Cook spoke candidly, but the market didn't listen to him.
People can vent all they want about analysts -- I'd be the first one to say that this Jefferies guy is one giant embarrassment to his company -- but they're not going anywhere anytime soon.
Financial markets just don't seem remotely convinced by Tim Cook.
The unassailable empirical fact remains that in the past year+, every time Cook has gone out there and opened his mouth -- whether at ATD, keynotes, quarterly earnings calls, you name it -- AAPL has taken a significant tumble. You can look it up. He makes his shareholders nervous. I personally think that, in part, it's because he conveys no vision, no 30,000-foot view of the business.
I think this can change, but people need to recognize first that there is an issue here.
The only way it can change is with numbers (and even that is up on the air) because Tim Cook sure isn't going to change.
But Apple has never done that before. They didn't do it with the iPad mini. If Apple really wanted people to know the colored iPhone is selling we would have had sales figures this morning. Unless of course sales figures aren't that great.
I am with you on this. The only good thing with Apple selling the 5C at a high price is margins. Every iphone they will sell being 5c or 5s will be the same for EPS so there is absolutly no reason to break down sale numbers.
My expectations is they will sell more iphones than last year in the first 2 quarters but that the sales will quickly died down, so the final numbers will be about the same as last year. I dont expect Apple to increase units sales until the 5c drops to around $400 and until they offer a bigger screen option.
There are wildcards here:
1. iWatch supporting phone calls and being the new cheap phone option.
2. Apple to introduce a bigger screen phone in early 2014 but not calling it an iphone. Instead coming with a name for both a tablet and a phone.
I would like to suggest that it was NOT "Secrecy around Apple's new 64-bit A7 chip may have incited spurious $AAPL stock downgrades." Rather, it was the desperate need by some analysts to put something out and give their worthless lives meaning that drove the change. Making it worse was that some idiot savants who manage funds actually imagine that the wild guesses of the analysts have any value without realizing they're nothing more than carnival fortune tellers...just not as accurate or as entertaining.
People can vent all they want about analysts -- I'd be the first one to say that this Jefferies guy is one giant embarrassment to his company -- but they're not going anywhere anytime soon.
Financial markets just don't seem remotely convinced by Tim Cook.
The unassailable empirical fact remains that in the past year+, every time Cook has gone out there and opened his mouth -- whether at ATD, keynotes, quarterly earnings calls, you name it -- AAPL has taken a significant tumble. You can look it up. He makes his shareholders nervous. I personally think that, in part, it's because he conveys no vision, no 30,000-foot view of the business.
I think this can change, but people need to recognize first that there is an issue here.
It's probably because analysts and the clueless believe "innovation" is a to-do item for today.
What do I have on my schedule today. At 10 am I have a meeting w team leaders, at 12 I have a business lunch, at 2 innovate here.
I actually think Apple screwed up this phone launch in several ways and I’m bit surprised with how they fumbled it.
1. Since Apple decided to introduce a new phone model, this was a perfect time to retire the current naming conventions and get rid of numbers. Go with something simple like iPhone and iPhone color. They did that with the 3rd gen iPad even though the form factor didn’t really change from iPad 2. There are a couple benefits to doing this. One, by not associating the colored iPhone to the iPhone 5 at all the meme might not have been “last year’s phone in colored plastic case repackaged as new”. Sure some of the tech sites would probably have still reported it that way but at least Apple wouldn’t be making it easier for them. Two, we’d get rid of this “S” model business. I listed to several podcasts after the event and a lot of journalists were fuming that Apple decided to make the “S” and “C” lowercase and even made the “S” on the 4S lowercase retroactively! When people refer to more than one iPhone they usually do so by using a lower case “s”. Now this new naming convention screws that up. It just seems clumsy.
2. By having a 5C pre-launch and prominently featuring it on Apple’s home page, the focus is squarely on the C, but there really isn’t much new about the C other than its colored shell. All the great innovative stuff in the 5S doesn’t get much media attention because the focus is on the 5C (is it too expensive, is it selling out, why didn’t Apple release launch weekend sales figures like they’ve done with every other iPhone, etc.). I listened to Dan Benjamin’s 5by5 podcast with Horace Deudiu (sp?), Benedict Evans and Christina Warren and the first 50 minutes of the podcast was devoted to Apple’s strategy around 5C pricing (especially unlocked pricing) and not the 64 bit A7, M7, fingerprint technology or iOS 7. Is that what Apple really wants the chatter to be about?
3. I think Cook could have been a bit less conservative on pricing. Rather than the same strategy of knocking last year’s model down the rung and taking off $100, why not get rid of the 4S all together and price the 5C at the lower end of the mid-range rather than the higher end. This doesn’t mean Apple has to get into a race to the bottom but it’s an ecosystem war they are fighting and I think being a little less conservative on pricing would really help grow the iOS ecosystem. I want people to choose an iPhone over a Moto X, Lumia 9xx or Nexus. But the fact is those are all decent phones at cheaper price points. For people who are more price sensitive those phones might be “good enough” even though they might really want an iPhone. If Apple wants to carve out a niche in the high end market and stay there they can, but I think it’s a mistake. And this has nothing to do with Apple making “cheap junk”. It’s a reset of expectations. Yeah margins might be a bit lower but maybe that’s the new reality. And maybe Wall Street needs to stop expecting 35-40% margins every quarter. But with Apple setting prices to protect higher margins they’re not resetting expectations.
I hope this is a case of everyone else playing checkers while Apple is playing chess. Maybe this is a brilliant strategy and it will all come together and make sense next year. But since Apple is so tight lipped about the future all we have to go on is the present. I hope sales figures next week prove me wrong.
I am with you on this. The only good thing with Apple selling the 5C at a high price is margins. Every iphone they will sell being 5c or 5s will be the same for EPS so there is absolutly no reason to break down sale numbers.
My expectations is they will sell more iphones than last year in the first 2 quarters but that the sales will quickly died down, so the final numbers will be about the same as last year. I dont expect Apple to increase units sales until the 5c drops to around $400 and until they offer a bigger screen option.
There are wildcards here:
1. iWatch supporting phone calls and being the new cheap phone option.
2. Apple to introduce a bigger screen phone in early 2014 but not calling it an iphone. Instead coming with a name for both a tablet and a phone.
Just stick cellular capabilities in the iPads or increase the screen size of the iPhone. There is no reason for Apple to create a completely new device.
But Apple has never done that before. They didn't do it with the iPad mini. If Apple really wanted people to know the colored iPhone is selling we would have had sales figures this morning. Unless of course sales figures aren't that great.
It is pretty unusual for Apple not to announce the "first day" figures first thing Monday morning (as they've done since the iPhone 4 was announced) but another possible explanation for the change could be two phones this year rather than one. Perhaps they're going to wait until the 5S is available before reporting combined numbers for the two.
It is pretty unusual for Apple not to announce the "first 24 hour figures" first thing Monday morning (as they've done for several years) but another possible explanation for the change could be two phones this year rather than one. Perhaps they're going to wait until the 5S is available before reporting combined numbers for the two.
EDIT: AI too just put an article up commenting on the lack of numbers.
Comments
They will likely release separate numbers. They want folks to know that the 5c is selling. What they won't likely do is break it down by country. Or as you say, do it before launch weekend is over.
Maps was not a misstep. In order to create a quality mapping program one needs feedback information that occurs by millions of people using that software. Google had the lead by far. Have you tried it on iOS7? Apple does much that is equal to or better than Google.
More importantly, the maps switch away from Google was part of the coordinated process of removing Google and Samsung from profiting off of Apple innovation. Since the courts would not protect Apple's (or anybody's) intellectual property in the tech field in a timely fashion, Apple had to ditch these leaches. Doing so would and is seriously hurting both companies as they lose Apple income. Google is having trouble making money off of mobile advertising. As they lose Apple's map revenue (from advertising) and Apple search functions (Google is not a serious player in the Chinese market for search) and as Android is not-upgradable like Apple, which cuts out enterprise, Google loses over time which is why it bought Motorola so they could begin to switch to Apples closed OS business model as is Microsoft, shutting out Samsung. Samsung is losing giant Apple income as Apple switched to other manufacturers ASAP and leaves Samsung without the ability to copy Apple until they can reverse engineer a new products. Even then, they have to guess at what Apple intends to do with that new tech such as the new A7 and M7 processors.
Bottom line, Steve Jobs was really mad about their partners in business stealing inside information to directly compete and Tim is following through. That takes time.
As the new phone and tablets as well as the iWatch and new Apple TV actually are in customers hands and developers have the time to make use of these hidden upgrades we will see Apple profits soar.
Please keep in mind that the last 3 Google Phones did not make them any money!
Apple makes money! Why is everyone questioning their business sense?
They will likely release separate numbers. They want folks to know that the 5c is selling. What they won't likely do is break it down by country. Or as you say, do it before launch weekend is over.
Even when Schiller said that Apple doesn't do cheap. Like Tim's 'supply chain checks can be tricky' Schiller was telling the analysts they are wrong and to change the tune without saying it bluntly. They were too dumb to listen. Or they have been keeping up the schtick on purpose to create a short.
Apple will release sales numbers after the first weekend of actual sales. Keep in mind that we can not believe Samsung reports as they only report units shipped and millions did not sell or were sold at serious discounts.
Android is in trouble. Google knows it. In time, they will likely fix their problems with a closed eco-system on their own products. Apple has a big head-start. That is because of Tim's ability to keep secret what Apple is doing and make the analysts look very foolish.
However it's possible Apple is continuing to buy back shares and it could be working in Apple's favor. With Apple, I really can't tell, so even from my view as a shareholder, Apple's continuing stock slide could be a blessing in disguise as long as Apple continues to buy back shares.
People can vent all they want about analysts -- I'd be the first one to say that this Jefferies guy is one giant embarrassment to his company -- but they're not going anywhere anytime soon.
Financial markets just don't seem remotely convinced by Tim Cook.
The unassailable empirical fact remains that in the past year+, every time Cook has gone out there and opened his mouth -- whether at ATD, keynotes, quarterly earnings calls, you name it -- AAPL has taken a significant tumble. You can look it up. He makes his shareholders nervous. I personally think that, in part, it's because he conveys no vision, no 30,000-foot view of the business.
I think this can change, but people need to recognize first that there is an issue here.
Maps was not a misstep. In order to create a quality mapping program one needs feedback information that occurs by millions of people using that software. Google had the lead by far. Have you tried it on iOS7? Apple does much that is equal to or better than Google.
More importantly, the maps switch away from Google was part of the coordinated process of removing Google and Samsung from profiting off of Apple innovation. Since the courts would not protect Apple's (or anybody's) intellectual property in the tech field in a timely fashion, Apple had to ditch these leaches. Doing so would and is seriously hurting both companies as they lose Apple income. Google is having trouble making money off of mobile advertising. As they lose Apple's map revenue (from advertising) and Apple search functions (Google is not a serious player in the Chinese market for search) and as Android is not-upgradable like Apple, which cuts out enterprise, Google loses over time which is why it bought Motorola so they could begin to switch to Apples closed OS business model as is Microsoft, shutting out Samsung. Samsung is losing giant Apple income as Apple switched to other manufacturers ASAP and leaves Samsung without the ability to copy Apple until they can reverse engineer a new products. Even then, they have to guess at what Apple intends to do with that new tech such as the new A7 and M7 processors.
Bottom line, Steve Jobs was really mad about their partners in business stealing inside information to directly compete and Tim is following through. That takes time.
As the new phone and tablets as well as the iWatch and new Apple TV actually are in customers hands and developers have the time to make use of these hidden upgrades we will see Apple profits soar.
Please keep in mind that the last 3 Google Phones did not make them any money!
Apple makes money! Why is everyone questioning their business sense?
Both the A6 in the 5c and the A7 in the are dual sourced. Chipworks will eventually show this. A8 sourcing will not be finalized until the fabs mature their 20nm offerings. It was not the secrecy around 64-bit, but the under-reported dual sourcing of both A6 and A7 that misled Misek and his followers. Tim Cook spoke candidly, but the market didn't listen to him.
People can vent all they want about analysts -- I'd be the first one to say that this Jefferies guy is one giant embarrassment to his company -- but they're not going anywhere anytime soon.
Financial markets just don't seem remotely convinced by Tim Cook.
The unassailable empirical fact remains that in the past year+, every time Cook has gone out there and opened his mouth -- whether at ATD, keynotes, quarterly earnings calls, you name it -- AAPL has taken a significant tumble. You can look it up. He makes his shareholders nervous. I personally think that, in part, it's because he conveys no vision, no 30,000-foot view of the business.
I think this can change, but people need to recognize first that there is an issue here.
The only way it can change is with numbers (and even that is up on the air) because Tim Cook sure isn't going to change.
But Apple has never done that before. They didn't do it with the iPad mini. If Apple really wanted people to know the colored iPhone is selling we would have had sales figures this morning. Unless of course sales figures aren't that great.
I am with you on this. The only good thing with Apple selling the 5C at a high price is margins. Every iphone they will sell being 5c or 5s will be the same for EPS so there is absolutly no reason to break down sale numbers.
My expectations is they will sell more iphones than last year in the first 2 quarters but that the sales will quickly died down, so the final numbers will be about the same as last year. I dont expect Apple to increase units sales until the 5c drops to around $400 and until they offer a bigger screen option.
There are wildcards here:
1. iWatch supporting phone calls and being the new cheap phone option.
2. Apple to introduce a bigger screen phone in early 2014 but not calling it an iphone. Instead coming with a name for both a tablet and a phone.
Analysts and meteorologists can be wrong half the time and still be employed.
It's probably because analysts and the clueless believe "innovation" is a to-do item for today.
What do I have on my schedule today. At 10 am I have a meeting w team leaders, at 12 I have a business lunch, at 2 innovate here.
1. Since Apple decided to introduce a new phone model, this was a perfect time to retire the current naming conventions and get rid of numbers. Go with something simple like iPhone and iPhone color. They did that with the 3rd gen iPad even though the form factor didn’t really change from iPad 2. There are a couple benefits to doing this. One, by not associating the colored iPhone to the iPhone 5 at all the meme might not have been “last year’s phone in colored plastic case repackaged as new”. Sure some of the tech sites would probably have still reported it that way but at least Apple wouldn’t be making it easier for them. Two, we’d get rid of this “S” model business. I listed to several podcasts after the event and a lot of journalists were fuming that Apple decided to make the “S” and “C” lowercase and even made the “S” on the 4S lowercase retroactively! When people refer to more than one iPhone they usually do so by using a lower case “s”. Now this new naming convention screws that up. It just seems clumsy.
2. By having a 5C pre-launch and prominently featuring it on Apple’s home page, the focus is squarely on the C, but there really isn’t much new about the C other than its colored shell. All the great innovative stuff in the 5S doesn’t get much media attention because the focus is on the 5C (is it too expensive, is it selling out, why didn’t Apple release launch weekend sales figures like they’ve done with every other iPhone, etc.). I listened to Dan Benjamin’s 5by5 podcast with Horace Deudiu (sp?), Benedict Evans and Christina Warren and the first 50 minutes of the podcast was devoted to Apple’s strategy around 5C pricing (especially unlocked pricing) and not the 64 bit A7, M7, fingerprint technology or iOS 7. Is that what Apple really wants the chatter to be about?
3. I think Cook could have been a bit less conservative on pricing. Rather than the same strategy of knocking last year’s model down the rung and taking off $100, why not get rid of the 4S all together and price the 5C at the lower end of the mid-range rather than the higher end. This doesn’t mean Apple has to get into a race to the bottom but it’s an ecosystem war they are fighting and I think being a little less conservative on pricing would really help grow the iOS ecosystem. I want people to choose an iPhone over a Moto X, Lumia 9xx or Nexus. But the fact is those are all decent phones at cheaper price points. For people who are more price sensitive those phones might be “good enough” even though they might really want an iPhone. If Apple wants to carve out a niche in the high end market and stay there they can, but I think it’s a mistake. And this has nothing to do with Apple making “cheap junk”. It’s a reset of expectations. Yeah margins might be a bit lower but maybe that’s the new reality. And maybe Wall Street needs to stop expecting 35-40% margins every quarter. But with Apple setting prices to protect higher margins they’re not resetting expectations.
I hope this is a case of everyone else playing checkers while Apple is playing chess. Maybe this is a brilliant strategy and it will all come together and make sense next year. But since Apple is so tight lipped about the future all we have to go on is the present. I hope sales figures next week prove me wrong.
It is pretty unusual for Apple not to announce the "first day" figures first thing Monday morning (as they've done since the iPhone 4 was announced) but another possible explanation for the change could be two phones this year rather than one. Perhaps they're going to wait until the 5S is available before reporting combined numbers for the two.
EDIT: AI too just put an article up commenting on the lack of numbers.
http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/159547/lack-of-iphone-5c-presale-announcement-causes-worry-among-apple-investors#post_2397996
It is pretty unusual for Apple not to announce the "first 24 hour figures" first thing Monday morning (as they've done for several years) but another possible explanation for the change could be two phones this year rather than one. Perhaps they're going to wait until the 5S is available before reporting combined numbers for the two.
EDIT: AI too just put an article up commenting on the lack of numbers.
http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/159547/lack-of-iphone-5c-presale-announcement-causes-worry-among-apple-investors#post_2397996
There may be 2 phones but you can only pre-order the 5C, so I don't see why the numbers can't be released.