People can vent all they want about analysts -- I'd be the first one to say that this Jefferies guy is one giant embarrassment to his company -- but they're not going anywhere anytime soon.
Financial markets just don't seem remotely convinced by Tim Cook.
The unassailable empirical fact remains that in the past year+, every time Cook has gone out there and opened his mouth -- whether at ATD, keynotes, quarterly earnings calls, you name it -- AAPL has taken a significant tumble. You can look it up. He makes his shareholders nervous. I personally think that, in part, it's because he conveys no vision, no 30,000-foot view of the business.
I think this can change, but people need to recognize first that there is an issue here.
Part of the problem is that Apple allowed the media chatter for several months to be that the 5C stood for cheaper and then when it was announced and people saw the unlocked prices, especially overseas they realized it was a lot more expensive than predicted. Sure some will say Apple doesn't respond to rumors blah blah blah but there were ways behind the scenes to lower expectations.
I think a Tim Cook is a really nice guy and no doubt incredibly smart. But I am starting to doubt if he's the right guy to lead Apple forward now. And I think Phil Schiller in the marketing role has been off his game for a while now.
A couple encouraging anecdotes, I saw a couple posts this morning on MacRumors from high school kids running iOS 7 and they said when they showed it off to their friends at school everyone really liked it and asked when they could get it on their phones. And Rene Ritchie from imore.com tweeted that he has his mother try out iOS 7 on the iPad and she loved it - thought it was beautiful, colorful and clear and wants it on here iPad now. iOS 7 reviews will come out on Wednesday (and perhaps iPhone reviews too). If the reviews are mostly positive that might change sentiment a bit.
Peter Misek.is the new Gene Munster or Brian White. Misek is an Anal-ist (no spelling error) who is trying to grab his moment of fame. However his proven track record of being wrong 99% of the time makes us wonder if this is more stock manipulation than anything else. It's hard to believe that the company he works for allows him to make the statements and predictions he does
These analysts have absolutely no clue about Apple...They don't get it. They keep saying what THEY think Apple should do rather than let Apple do what they think that they should do. Apple got where they are by doing their own thing and not by listening to the so called financial experts.
Wall Street have repeatedly shown that they can't even manage their own affairs, yet somehow they have the expertise to tell Apple what they need to do? Seriously, what a bunch of bafoons! Apple got successful by being Apple. Leave them alone and let them do their thing – they know what they're doing. Slow and steady with the "long game" in mind not short term gains.
The AppStore alone is worth a ton. Yes Apple is definitely undervalued!
I think a Tim Cook is a really nice guy and no doubt incredibly smart. But I am starting to doubt if he's the right guy to lead Apple forward now. And I think Phil Schiller in the marketing role has been off his game for a while now.
Not this again. I remember when Jobs denounced the Apple netbook rumors every day until the iPad was announced. Shit, that didn't happen either.
Not this again. I remember when Jobs denounced the Apple netbook rumors every day until the iPad was announced. Shit, that didn't happen either.
Sorry I think Apple screwed up this launch. Stock is down over $50 since the announcement. Maybe sales numbers will prove me wrong next week. I hope so.
I love a%s-clowns like Misek. He just created another buying opportunity for AAPL at a significantly lower price than I would of had to pay yesterday! NO debt and $1b in PROFITper WEEK. You got it right Misek - a crappy company - keep talking down AAPL so I can retire.
How could Apple's stock possibly be valued lower than Google?
Why is a company that consistently racks up record quarters, earnings, P/E ratios, and cash not be the best stock value and safest investment in the market?
Wow, this post makes you look like you know NOTHING about investing. For the first question, the relative stock price between two companies is completely irrelevant. That's comparing apple's an oranges. What matters is market capitalization (stock price * Number of outstanding shares). Using this metric Apple is the largest publicly traded American company. But I guess that's not big enough for you, and they should be worth even more? In reality, Apple is valued over $100B more than Google. But I guess because google's stock price is higher than Apple that Google is more valuable....
For the second point, it is a very hard sale to convince ANYONE that apple is the safest investment in the market. That's simply not true. Sure they're a big company, and making huge profits right now... But they're also in one of the most volatile industries to ever exist: Consumer Electronics. Apple's value isn't in their infrastructure, their factories, buildings etc... It's in their ability to do two things: Sell phones and sell tablets. Right now they're selling record amounts, and this could be the case for a good number of years, it's hard to say.
However, if history has taught us anything, a handful of missteps in this market, and you can QUICKLY go from market leader to nobody. Just look at Nokia or blackberry. Both were massive players in the phone market... However, they didn't react quick enough to changing market conditions, and now they're basically has beens, a shell of their former self. I'm not saying that the same thing is likely to happen to Apple, but it's a possibility. If someone else comes along with the next killer product/feature set, Apple could fall, and fall fast.
Most people when investing use the phrase "don't put all your eggs in one basket"... Apple has all of their eggs in a handful of baskets, a vast portion of Apple's value is in their iphone and ipad lines. This makes Apple a MUCH riskier investment than say a GE which has thousands of product lines. It doesn't make GE more profitable, but that's not what investors take into account when evaluating the "safety" of a stock.
People can vent all they want about analysts -- I'd be the first one to say that this Jefferies guy is one giant embarrassment to his company -- but they're not going anywhere anytime soon.
Financial markets just don't seem remotely convinced by Tim Cook.
The unassailable empirical fact remains that in the past year+, every time Cook has gone out there and opened his mouth -- whether at ATD, keynotes, quarterly earnings calls, you name it -- AAPL has taken a significant tumble. You can look it up. He makes his shareholders nervous. I personally think that, in part, it's because he conveys no vision, no 30,000-foot view of the business.
I think this can change, but people need to recognize first that there is an issue here.
I think you are right, however, job never provide a direct vision either, He did not come out and say this is the direction the world is moving or this is the direction Apple is taking he let the product speak for itself.
But when he and the others speak they all kind of look lost, they walk and talk like they have no glue holding them together. This could be what people are seeing and they are concern about it all falling apart before the either eye.
Honestly, not like any other company is doing better jobs most talk about vaporware and wouldn't it be nice stories.
This is the clown everyone is quoting as claiming "terrible" yields on the Touch ID sensor. So based on his track record, there should be plenty of iPhone 5s for everyone.
Tim Cook has made a reference to October as a month to expect significant product announcements. My recollection is that is was during a media Q and A following a quarterly report.
When Ifix it (or simular) does there year down and answer all there questions, it will be but but. The point is to the consumer is its even faster and has a new dingy that no other phone uses (best for pre android[samsung] users. I doubt they really care as long as it works.
Thanks to the competition with the emergence of Samsung. It seems Apple is being forced to set the phone price to a new low or risk the device unsold and many consumers will buy product other than Apple. If Apple let this happen for a prolong period the more damage may be difficult to repair. Thought the 5c would be in the range of $350 - $425 which was actually a tight level to not let Samsung taking a breath. At $550 apple really had just given a fresh air to Samsung which is bad for apple.
It's time for jefferies analyst Peter Misek to face the SEC, and possibility spend some time in jail, or at the very least be sanctioned for either being incompetent or rampant manipulation of the stock.
The job name contains the job description: Anal-yst! Their job is it simply to produce and sell SHIT!
They typically like to underestimate rather than overestimate. I think a lot of them are overly critical of Apple than they are others. I think a lot of them interject their own biases towards a company they might not use their products. Munster was overly optimistic with Apple last year and this year.
The best you can do is look at what are saying and take the high estimates and the low estimates and take the average, OR completely ignore them and run your own numbers and see how accurate you are.
Remember, most of these analysts go out by usually a year. This past year was abnormally slow for Apple and the stock reflected it.
Apple has been late in delivering a larger screen iPhone and I think that hurt their sales over the past year. They also haven't had any announcements this year other than the MBAir and now the iPhones, and that's not typical of Apple. A lot of it is due to Intel not pushing out the chips they want. I personally suspect Apple is going with Thunderbolt 2 on devices that haven't been announced yet. The MBAir don't really need Thunderbolt 2 since those are general purpose laptops that aren't typically used for more high end applications.
I was a little shocked that Apple hasn't kicked out IGZO technology yet, like I thought they might do on the iPhone 5S's. But maybe they are reserving those for larger screen sizes.
For some STUPID reason, some (NOT ALL) of these analysts think that Apple needs to kick out smartphones in the sub-$300 category. Yeah right, that would be STUPID. People that spend $300 or less on a smartphone typically don't have or spend money on content, apps, service contracts, so Apple would be dumb to spit out a low cost no margin phone that probably couldn't run the next OS they come out with next year. Apple likes to update their users for the time period for which their phones are on the price list which is typically 3 years. I'm sure the iPhone 5 users will get OS updates for several years until Apple completely removes 32 bit devices completely, which is probably another 2 years down the road.
That's too bad for Apple shareholders. Quarterly sales will have to prove the downgrades were bad calls.
Apple needs to finalize the new Power Mac production in the U.S. I'm sure many pros are waiting on that baby. The dip in Mac sales has put some doubt in Apple on top of other worries that they are not innovating. Apple fans know different though. One thing that bothers me is that Apple holds a ton of cash overseas when they could be using that for job creation in the U.S. in bringing more R&D and manufacturing here. I created this petition to help them and other companies out.
Was it last year? There was another drop of the value of the Apple Shares because Apple sold less iPhones than estimated by an analyst. What? If Apple would have made a prognosis and didn't fulfil the estimation the drop would be justified.
But again, like in this case, someone outside of Apple who does not have inside knowledge makes an estimation and the value of the shares is going down. Maybe my point of view is been filtered by my european (German) background and I have a different point of view about the complete topic. From my point of view tar and feathers would be a nice incentive for most of the American bankers.
Folks, I cant analyse stocks, but can say a few things about human characters. @analogjack who pointed out a nail in the head comment about Tim Cook. Yes, his self-element says that he is a very secretive person, furthermore he is very adaptable to any situation, highly intelligent, and often underestimated. I look forward to 2014, when he is going to blow the tech world away with his ideas.
Comments
I think a Tim Cook is a really nice guy and no doubt incredibly smart. But I am starting to doubt if he's the right guy to lead Apple forward now. And I think Phil Schiller in the marketing role has been off his game for a while now.
A couple encouraging anecdotes, I saw a couple posts this morning on MacRumors from high school kids running iOS 7 and they said when they showed it off to their friends at school everyone really liked it and asked when they could get it on their phones. And Rene Ritchie from imore.com tweeted that he has his mother try out iOS 7 on the iPad and she loved it - thought it was beautiful, colorful and clear and wants it on here iPad now. iOS 7 reviews will come out on Wednesday (and perhaps iPhone reviews too). If the reviews are mostly positive that might change sentiment a bit.
These analysts have absolutely no clue about Apple...They don't get it. They keep saying what THEY think Apple should do rather than let Apple do what they think that they should do. Apple got where they are by doing their own thing and not by listening to the so called financial experts.
Wall Street have repeatedly shown that they can't even manage their own affairs, yet somehow they have the expertise to tell Apple what they need to do? Seriously, what a bunch of bafoons! Apple got successful by being Apple. Leave them alone and let them do their thing – they know what they're doing. Slow and steady with the "long game" in mind not short term gains.
The AppStore alone is worth a ton. Yes Apple is definitely undervalued!
good job calling out Misek for being the total hack he truly is.
unfortunately, this won't stop the stupid media from quoting him as an "analyst."
Not this again. I remember when Jobs denounced the Apple netbook rumors every day until the iPad was announced. Shit, that didn't happen either.
Sorry I think Apple screwed up this launch. Stock is down over $50 since the announcement. Maybe sales numbers will prove me wrong next week. I hope so.
How could Apple's stock possibly be valued lower than Google?
Why is a company that consistently racks up record quarters, earnings, P/E ratios, and cash not be the best stock value and safest investment in the market?
Wow, this post makes you look like you know NOTHING about investing. For the first question, the relative stock price between two companies is completely irrelevant. That's comparing apple's an oranges. What matters is market capitalization (stock price * Number of outstanding shares). Using this metric Apple is the largest publicly traded American company. But I guess that's not big enough for you, and they should be worth even more? In reality, Apple is valued over $100B more than Google. But I guess because google's stock price is higher than Apple that Google is more valuable....
For the second point, it is a very hard sale to convince ANYONE that apple is the safest investment in the market. That's simply not true. Sure they're a big company, and making huge profits right now... But they're also in one of the most volatile industries to ever exist: Consumer Electronics. Apple's value isn't in their infrastructure, their factories, buildings etc... It's in their ability to do two things: Sell phones and sell tablets. Right now they're selling record amounts, and this could be the case for a good number of years, it's hard to say.
However, if history has taught us anything, a handful of missteps in this market, and you can QUICKLY go from market leader to nobody. Just look at Nokia or blackberry. Both were massive players in the phone market... However, they didn't react quick enough to changing market conditions, and now they're basically has beens, a shell of their former self. I'm not saying that the same thing is likely to happen to Apple, but it's a possibility. If someone else comes along with the next killer product/feature set, Apple could fall, and fall fast.
Most people when investing use the phrase "don't put all your eggs in one basket"... Apple has all of their eggs in a handful of baskets, a vast portion of Apple's value is in their iphone and ipad lines. This makes Apple a MUCH riskier investment than say a GE which has thousands of product lines. It doesn't make GE more profitable, but that's not what investors take into account when evaluating the "safety" of a stock.
Phil
That's the only part of the keynote that let me down. Seriously. What are they thinking charging so much for a plastic iPhone.
People can vent all they want about analysts -- I'd be the first one to say that this Jefferies guy is one giant embarrassment to his company -- but they're not going anywhere anytime soon.
Financial markets just don't seem remotely convinced by Tim Cook.
The unassailable empirical fact remains that in the past year+, every time Cook has gone out there and opened his mouth -- whether at ATD, keynotes, quarterly earnings calls, you name it -- AAPL has taken a significant tumble. You can look it up. He makes his shareholders nervous. I personally think that, in part, it's because he conveys no vision, no 30,000-foot view of the business.
I think this can change, but people need to recognize first that there is an issue here.
I think you are right, however, job never provide a direct vision either, He did not come out and say this is the direction the world is moving or this is the direction Apple is taking he let the product speak for itself.
But when he and the others speak they all kind of look lost, they walk and talk like they have no glue holding them together. This could be what people are seeing and they are concern about it all falling apart before the either eye.
Honestly, not like any other company is doing better jobs most talk about vaporware and wouldn't it be nice stories.
The job name contains the job description: Anal-yst! Their job is it simply to produce and sell SHIT!
Tim Cook has made a reference to October as a month to expect significant product announcements. My recollection is that is was during a media Q and A following a quarterly report.
The job name contains the job description: Anal-yst! Their job is it simply to produce and sell SHIT!
They typically like to underestimate rather than overestimate. I think a lot of them are overly critical of Apple than they are others. I think a lot of them interject their own biases towards a company they might not use their products. Munster was overly optimistic with Apple last year and this year.
I was a little shocked that Apple hasn't kicked out IGZO technology yet, like I thought they might do on the iPhone 5S's. But maybe they are reserving those for larger screen sizes.
That's too bad for Apple shareholders. Quarterly sales will have to prove the downgrades were bad calls.
Apple needs to finalize the new Power Mac production in the U.S. I'm sure many pros are waiting on that baby. The dip in Mac sales has put some doubt in Apple on top of other worries that they are not innovating. Apple fans know different though. One thing that bothers me is that Apple holds a ton of cash overseas when they could be using that for job creation in the U.S. in bringing more R&D and manufacturing here. I created this petition to help them and other companies out.
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/give-tax-breaks-companies-repatriate-earnings-rd-or-expansion-continental-united-states/ZtDX1kQ7
Help companies like Apple bring more jobs here and innovate with the earnings they made overseas by giving them a tax break for doing so.
Was it last year? There was another drop of the value of the Apple Shares because Apple sold less iPhones than estimated by an analyst. What? If Apple would have made a prognosis and didn't fulfil the estimation the drop would be justified.
But again, like in this case, someone outside of Apple who does not have inside knowledge makes an estimation and the value of the shares is going down. Maybe my point of view is been filtered by my european (German) background and I have a different point of view about the complete topic. From my point of view tar and feathers would be a nice incentive for most of the American bankers.