It does sound like someone within Apple deserves detention for a week, a good caning across their backside and a hundred lines … Oh, my wife tells me times have changed in school since I was there ...
1. You set a rule that the students not upgrade until the school says it's okay because it might break apps they need for class and if they break this rule they can't use it as an excuse and will fail every days works until the issue is fixed even if it means they fail the term. No appeals on this
2. You spot check devices at least once a week to insure compliance with this, with not deleting profiles (ie LAUSD) etc
3. If the schools told the students to do the upgrade it's on them
4. This issue might also happen if they were using outside MDM that hadn't tested yet. And doesn't block OTA updates. Or at least require a password the kids don't have.
5 how do we know the kids weren't restoring on a computer to try to remove the profiles on purpose if they do block Internet etc. This could be another LAUSD trick. They try to remove the profiles only to discover theirs ARE passworded so they DFU etc. Might have little to do with iOS 7 at least at some schools
You've obviously never taught before. I taught high school for three years and it's almost impossible to fail a child now. They literally have to do nothing for you to fail them. It's a terrible system and it's why I got out.
Good, maybe this'll be the wake up call to Cook to getting back to QCing their products. Maybe I'm just disgruntled that my hoard of Apple products continually fail me on a weekly basis in one way or another, or I'm just overestimating technology. Still better than Android or Windows, but it's been a while since Apple's "it just works" mentality.
Funny, my hoard of Apple devices continue to just work. What am I missing here? Am I just too stupid to notice?
Apple has always had issues with Enterprise and the Proletariat masses. ;-) Tim Cook however hails from Compaq originally, one of the greats in Enterprise Configuration. SmartStart anyone? CPAQ's? Automated driver and firmware updates for entire server stacks? Thank God Apple is too large for someone like Fiorina to buy up and destroy. :-P
You mean the IT teams that rolled out an upgrade without testing it?
Yes! Thank you; this really isn’t Apple’s fault. Apple has broken plenty of their old compatibility in the past and who said boo about it then?!
If you’re too stupid to update Configurator, if you’re too stupid to test the OS before pushing it out, and if you’re too stupid to educate yourself on the changes, it is YOUR fault you had to “recall” the iPads.
Originally Posted by lkrupp
Funny, my hoard of Apple devices continue to just work. What am I missing here? Am I just too stupid to notice?
Must be. " src="http://forums-files.appleinsider.com/images/smilies//lol.gif" />
If you’re too stupid to update Configurator, if you’re too stupid to test the OS before pushing it out, and if you’re too stupid to educate yourself on the changes, it is YOUR fault you had to “recall” the iPads.
I don't follow you. All of this happened AFTER the LASUSD rolled out iPads running iOS 6. Apple PREVENTS disabling iOS software updates. iOS 7 broke the previously tested setup under iOS 6. How is this the IT department's fault then?
This is a big deal for Apple because LAUSD is a high profile BILLION dollar rollout of Apple's flagship product for educational use. The success or failure will impact the implementation by other school districts around the country, and the world. And right now it's telling others watching this experiment closely that it's not quite ready for primetime. Wonder how investors will take that?
This report also should have included that if you have Supervised iPads for students, an iCloud backup that is restored onto a new device is also stripped of the Supervision profile. In iOS 6, the Supervision profile was put back on the device during the restore. Not anymore. Manually making backups on the Configurator station is not convenient when you have tons of devices out there.
A bug is a bug. However, a good MDM, or using a web server and instructing the users to navigate to the web server to install the profile would have been better. I am not a fan of supervised iOS devices.
Apple is at fault here, but so are the school districts. You NEVER implement a major upgrade without testing it in your own system and with your own particular setup.
I appreciate this comment. I really do, but we had students-- despite being told not to-- who have updated their devices over the air and thereby stripped the device of the Supervision profile. These are middle grade kids and we have global proxy settings and the like that were broken by this update. Our MDM is not refreshing profiles that have Supervised-only elements checked off and this is problematic. We had no intention of rolling out 7 until we tested it and despite telling the kids via email and during grade level meetings, we were essentially forced by our users to conduct live testing once they broke the rules and updated. Handling this as a discipline issue is out of my realm; however, we are left to deal with the fallout. We are collecting hundreds of devices and updating them via Configurator which puts the profile back on. I feel for those with larger deployments that are geographically dispersed.
I've mentioned elsewhere another significant issue that needs to be addressed with regard to backing up a supervised device to iCloud and the restoration of that backup on a replacement is stripped of the Supervision profile as well. This did not occur in iOS 6.
That's fine but if the people that call the shots demand that things like Messages and FaceTime be disabled on student devices and a global proxy runs on the devices when students are at home, the tech people have no alternative but to Supervise the devices. It doesn't matter what the people setting up the devices agree with, unfortunately.
Things like this are bound to happen. For some reason Apple made a deliberate decision to NOT have multiple users on iOS such as an admin account and also requires a single Apple ID for the device. So now they have a lot more things to be concerned about from a corporate security perspective. The children should not know the Apple ID password to the device and any app or OS updates should require the password - for all users not just students.
Yawn. The supervisor profile software used is an app, folks. Not part of Apple's OS.
Ask your local bank how the supervisor profile software they used on their iPads worked through the iOS update? I did. At my local bank, everything performed smooth as glass. No hiccups.
I suggest school systems look beyond what's accepted as a quality app provider. And the rest of you examine how exactly the iOS functions with poor quality apps.
First: School IT people are not idiots. They know to not implement something the first day or even week or month that it is out. Apple gives you no way to stop students from updating their iPads to iOS 7. Some districts have set bogus DNS records to stop the update but that's the only way to do it. If the iPads go home, then that solution is moot. You try and tell an 8th grader that they shouldn't do the upgrade they're prompted to do several times a day.
Second: Apple needs to get with the program. This is a major bug that they missed.
Third: Apple needs to be more open about this. The issue ONLY affects iPads that had a restore done after being supervised with configurator. If anyone actually took the time to read through boards that have actual knowledgable people on it, like the JAMF Nation board, you'd know the real scope of this and stop being hyperbolic about it...
Forth: School IT departments are way over-taxed already and iPads were sold to the people above or outside of those IT departments as some panacea and so here we are.... Too many iPads for too little knowledge for over-worked people and then done on the cheap so they don't have a 'real' MDM in place to deal with it.
I might agree with your example if Apple was an education tech or business tech company. As their primary focus.
But they are not. They aren't even a creative pro focused company anymore. They are a general use company with a couple of small side products. Education and MDM are infants in their world, particularly in terms of hard core restrictions, etc. There are other companies that have been doing this kind of thing longer even in iOS that have also screwed up (it is an outside company that LAUSD is using! which doesn't passcode their profiles so the kiddies can remove them in under five seconds)
If you read the support thread you'll find the schools involved in the discussion didn't choose to update to iOS7 nor download it in the first place. With that said they didn't actively block Apple from sending the update to student-issued iPads either. https://discussions.apple.com/thread/5379636?tstart=0
True but...several people have said the IT departments should have blocked the iOS update and a few have pointed to Windows as the example...a user can't update Windows on their own because "IT won't allow it" (similar for a properly maintained network of Macs). But HOW is that achieved? It's not by setting up your own DNS server to block certain IP address (does Apple even publish which addresses would need to be blocked, or is it another egg hunt like the UIs of late?). It's by setting up and limiting the permissions the user as on the device itself. And THAT should be functionality of the OS. No 3rd party tool will be able to do it effectively without OS support built in. Apple providing functionality to block app downloads but not block iOS updates is a failure on Apple's part.
Perhaps Apple does provide such a tool and it's just not being reported on in these articles. But they need to have one if they want to play in the enterprise arena (and that includes schools).
The issue is with you setting calendar dates 113 years in the past and being mystified when the device knows better than to do that.
Having the ability to look back to find out what day of the week a certain date was, is one reason someone might want to scroll back their calendar.
Computers generally don't have any clue about dates before 00:00:00 UTC on 1 January 1970 . Dates before that are not stored in UNIX timestamp format which expects a positive number. There are ways to deal with dates before that time but you can't use the time() function in UNIX. You basically need to reinvent all of the methods to allow for negative numbers to work with older dates.
Comments
You've obviously never taught before. I taught high school for three years and it's almost impossible to fail a child now. They literally have to do nothing for you to fail them. It's a terrible system and it's why I got out.
Good, maybe this'll be the wake up call to Cook to getting back to QCing their products. Maybe I'm just disgruntled that my hoard of Apple products continually fail me on a weekly basis in one way or another, or I'm just overestimating technology. Still better than Android or Windows, but it's been a while since Apple's "it just works" mentality.
Funny, my hoard of Apple devices continue to just work. What am I missing here? Am I just too stupid to notice?
Yes! Thank you; this really isn’t Apple’s fault. Apple has broken plenty of their old compatibility in the past and who said boo about it then?!
If you’re too stupid to update Configurator, if you’re too stupid to test the OS before pushing it out, and if you’re too stupid to educate yourself on the changes, it is YOUR fault you had to “recall” the iPads.
Funny, my hoard of Apple devices continue to just work. What am I missing here? Am I just too stupid to notice?
Must be.
" src="http://forums-files.appleinsider.com/images/smilies//lol.gif" />
You mean the IT teams that rolled out an upgrade without testing it?
Exactly.
If you’re too stupid to update Configurator, if you’re too stupid to test the OS before pushing it out, and if you’re too stupid to educate yourself on the changes, it is YOUR fault you had to “recall” the iPads.
I don't follow you. All of this happened AFTER the LASUSD rolled out iPads running iOS 6. Apple PREVENTS disabling iOS software updates. iOS 7 broke the previously tested setup under iOS 6. How is this the IT department's fault then?
This is a big deal for Apple because LAUSD is a high profile BILLION dollar rollout of Apple's flagship product for educational use. The success or failure will impact the implementation by other school districts around the country, and the world. And right now it's telling others watching this experiment closely that it's not quite ready for primetime. Wonder how investors will take that?
This report also should have included that if you have Supervised iPads for students, an iCloud backup that is restored onto a new device is also stripped of the Supervision profile. In iOS 6, the Supervision profile was put back on the device during the restore. Not anymore. Manually making backups on the Configurator station is not convenient when you have tons of devices out there.
A bug is a bug. However, a good MDM, or using a web server and instructing the users to navigate to the web server to install the profile would have been better. I am not a fan of supervised iOS devices.
az
Exactly.
Apple is at fault here, but so are the school districts. You NEVER implement a major upgrade without testing it in your own system and with your own particular setup.
I appreciate this comment. I really do, but we had students-- despite being told not to-- who have updated their devices over the air and thereby stripped the device of the Supervision profile. These are middle grade kids and we have global proxy settings and the like that were broken by this update. Our MDM is not refreshing profiles that have Supervised-only elements checked off and this is problematic. We had no intention of rolling out 7 until we tested it and despite telling the kids via email and during grade level meetings, we were essentially forced by our users to conduct live testing once they broke the rules and updated. Handling this as a discipline issue is out of my realm; however, we are left to deal with the fallout. We are collecting hundreds of devices and updating them via Configurator which puts the profile back on. I feel for those with larger deployments that are geographically dispersed.
I've mentioned elsewhere another significant issue that needs to be addressed with regard to backing up a supervised device to iCloud and the restoration of that backup on a replacement is stripped of the Supervision profile as well. This did not occur in iOS 6.
That's fine but if the people that call the shots demand that things like Messages and FaceTime be disabled on student devices and a global proxy runs on the devices when students are at home, the tech people have no alternative but to Supervise the devices. It doesn't matter what the people setting up the devices agree with, unfortunately.
Things like this are bound to happen. For some reason Apple made a deliberate decision to NOT have multiple users on iOS such as an admin account and also requires a single Apple ID for the device. So now they have a lot more things to be concerned about from a corporate security perspective. The children should not know the Apple ID password to the device and any app or OS updates should require the password - for all users not just students.
Ask your local bank how the supervisor profile software they used on their iPads worked through the iOS update? I did. At my local bank, everything performed smooth as glass. No hiccups.
I suggest school systems look beyond what's accepted as a quality app provider. And the rest of you examine how exactly the iOS functions with poor quality apps.
First:
School IT people are not idiots. They know to not implement something the first day or even week or month that it is out. Apple gives you no way to stop students from updating their iPads to iOS 7. Some districts have set bogus DNS records to stop the update but that's the only way to do it. If the iPads go home, then that solution is moot. You try and tell an 8th grader that they shouldn't do the upgrade they're prompted to do several times a day.
Second:
Apple needs to get with the program. This is a major bug that they missed.
Third:
Apple needs to be more open about this. The issue ONLY affects iPads that had a restore done after being supervised with configurator. If anyone actually took the time to read through boards that have actual knowledgable people on it, like the JAMF Nation board, you'd know the real scope of this and stop being hyperbolic about it...
Forth:
School IT departments are way over-taxed already and iPads were sold to the people above or outside of those IT departments as some panacea and so here we are.... Too many iPads for too little knowledge for over-worked people and then done on the cheap so they don't have a 'real' MDM in place to deal with it.
OMG,
I just found one more bug in IOS7. The Calendar:
If you schroll all the way down until 1900s or so. The calendar gets nuts, white screen and never comes back I've had to reinstall the OS.
Ouch !
Apple should take a look at this issue.
Have a nice day !
Roger
Belgium.
Then they should have had things fixed instead of whining about it and taking the iPads back, right?
That sounds wrong…
If you schroll all the way down until 1900s or so. The calendar gets nuts, white screen and never comes back I've had to reinstall the OS.
You have to be joking.
Apple should take a look at this issue.
The issue is with you setting calendar dates 113 years in the past and being mystified when the device knows better than to do that.
I might agree with your example if Apple was an education tech or business tech company. As their primary focus.
But they are not. They aren't even a creative pro focused company anymore. They are a general use company with a couple of small side products. Education and MDM are infants in their world, particularly in terms of hard core restrictions, etc. There are other companies that have been doing this kind of thing longer even in iOS that have also screwed up (it is an outside company that LAUSD is using! which doesn't passcode their profiles so the kiddies can remove them in under five seconds)
I agree.
Scrolling to a date where you wouldn't have any appointments, with anyone. Roger that.
Great beer, Shite government, when they have one.
True but...several people have said the IT departments should have blocked the iOS update and a few have pointed to Windows as the example...a user can't update Windows on their own because "IT won't allow it" (similar for a properly maintained network of Macs). But HOW is that achieved? It's not by setting up your own DNS server to block certain IP address (does Apple even publish which addresses would need to be blocked, or is it another egg hunt like the UIs of late?). It's by setting up and limiting the permissions the user as on the device itself. And THAT should be functionality of the OS. No 3rd party tool will be able to do it effectively without OS support built in. Apple providing functionality to block app downloads but not block iOS updates is a failure on Apple's part.
Perhaps Apple does provide such a tool and it's just not being reported on in these articles. But they need to have one if they want to play in the enterprise arena (and that includes schools).
Having the ability to look back to find out what day of the week a certain date was, is one reason someone might want to scroll back their calendar.
Computers generally don't have any clue about dates before 00:00:00 UTC on 1 January 1970 . Dates before that are not stored in UNIX timestamp format which expects a positive number. There are ways to deal with dates before that time but you can't use the time() function in UNIX. You basically need to reinvent all of the methods to allow for negative numbers to work with older dates.