Apple's cylindrical Mac Pro will debut in Dec. starting at $2,999

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  • Reply 261 of 285
    relicrelic Posts: 4,735member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by marvfox View Post

     

    Lenovo is a good tech company and eventually they will start to make the CPU compared to Apple .Lenovo has excellent quality control to.


    Oh no doubt, I have never gone wrong with them, if you want to use Linux, BSD, Windows or any other OS for that matter a Lenovo Thinkpad is defiantly the way to go. I still have a Thinkpad X61 that looks and operates like the day I bought it, I still keep it around because it's the perfect test bed for my mad scientist whims.

  • Reply 262 of 285
    marvfoxmarvfox Posts: 2,275member

    Lenovo beats the hell out of HP that is for sure and it is economical also.Personally speaking I think Apple is way overpriced for what you are getting.

  • Reply 263 of 285
    drblankdrblank Posts: 3,383member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by marvfox View Post

     

    Lenovo beats the hell out of HP that is for sure and it is economical also.Personally speaking I think Apple is way overpriced for what you are getting.


    Based on what models/configurations?

     

    Please list the entire configuration for each model you are trying to compare, I'm sure there is an explanation as to why it's priced the way it is.



    With the MacPro, you aren't getting some inexpensive HDD as standard, you are getting high speed SSD (1250MBps).  In addition, you are getting 6 Thunderbolt 2 ports (also used to connect monitors).  I'm sure with the HP and Lenovo, you aren't getting any.  HP and Lenovo, as far as I know, don't have the high speed SSD, so you would have to buy a 3rd party product which obviously wouldn't be covered under the HP/Lenovo warranty/support contract, and there aren't any Thunderbolt 2 ports for XEON based mother board, which probably won't happen until sometime next year.

     

    PCs are cheaper because they are giving you less of something that you can't easily rectify without spending more money.  Obviously, you didn't factor that in.

     

    Lenovno and HP are probably fairly equal with their workstations, both aren't doing anything that different from one another.   Both are making tall space heaters that also work as a computer.

     

    We don't know how much the 12 core Apple MacPro is at this time, HP has one listed for $9,995, but it doesn't come with any GPU (that's extra), it lists 240GB of SSD, but it doesn't mention the speed rating and it doesn't come with Thunderbolt 2 ports, they give you 2 older Firewire 400 1394a and 5 USB 2 ports instead with no HDMI port.  

  • Reply 264 of 285
    marvfoxmarvfox Posts: 2,275member

    Google it you are better off than me telling you about it.

  • Reply 265 of 285
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by drblank View Post

     

    Based on what models/configurations?

     

    Please list the entire configuration for each model you are trying to compare, I'm sure there is an explanation as to why it's priced the way it is.



    With the MacPro, you aren't getting some inexpensive HDD as standard, you are getting high speed SSD (1250MBps).  In addition, you are getting 6 Thunderbolt 2 ports (also used to connect monitors).  I'm sure with the HP and Lenovo, you aren't getting any.  HP and Lenovo, as far as I know, don't have the high speed SSD, so you would have to buy a 3rd party product which obviously wouldn't be covered under the HP/Lenovo warranty/support contract, and there aren't any Thunderbolt 2 ports for XEON based mother board, which probably won't happen until sometime next year.

     

    PCs are cheaper because they are giving you less of something that you can't easily rectify without spending more money.  Obviously, you didn't factor that in.

     

    Lenovno and HP are probably fairly equal with their workstations, both aren't doing anything that different from one another.   Both are making tall space heaters that also work as a computer.

     

    We don't know how much the 12 core Apple MacPro is at this time, HP has one listed for $9,995, but it doesn't come with any GPU (that's extra), it lists 240GB of SSD, but it doesn't mention the speed rating and it doesn't come with Thunderbolt 2 ports, they give you 2 older Firewire 400 1394a and 5 USB 2 ports instead with no HDMI port.  




    With the HP, Dell , Lenovno and others you are getting at least few HDD bays, some systems even have build in HARDWARE RAID.

     

    apple mac pro 256GB base 1TB MAX

     

    no need for $300+ Expansion Chassis just to use a pci-e card at an MAX speed of PCI-E 2.0 X4 shared over the full TB bus. I think the Mac pro has 3 TB buses but with out an block map I don't know how the pci-e channels feeding them are setup.

     

    With the HP, Dell , Lenovno and others. You can use pci-e SSD cards and HDD's off of the build in SATA / SAS ports all in one case.

     

  • Reply 266 of 285
    joeb wrote: »
    drblank wrote: »
     
    Based on what models/configurations?

    Please list the entire configuration for each model you are trying to compare, I'm sure there is an explanation as to why it's priced the way it is.


    With the MacPro, you aren't getting some inexpensive HDD as standard, you are getting high speed SSD (1250MBps).  In addition, you are getting 6 Thunderbolt 2 ports (also used to connect monitors).  I'm sure with the HP and Lenovo, you aren't getting any.  HP and Lenovo, as far as I know, don't have the high speed SSD, so you would have to buy a 3rd party product which obviously wouldn't be covered under the HP/Lenovo warranty/support contract, and there aren't any Thunderbolt 2 ports for XEON based mother board, which probably won't happen until sometime next year.

    PCs are cheaper because they are giving you less of something that you can't easily rectify without spending more money.  Obviously, you didn't factor that in.

    Lenovno and HP are probably fairly equal with their workstations, both aren't doing anything that different from one another.   Both are making tall space heaters that also work as a computer.

    We don't know how much the 12 core Apple MacPro is at this time, HP has one listed for $9,995, but it doesn't come with any GPU (that's extra), it lists 240GB of SSD, but it doesn't mention the speed rating and it doesn't come with Thunderbolt 2 ports, they give you 2 older Firewire 400 1394a and 5 USB 2 ports instead with no HDMI port.  


    With the HP, Dell , Lenovno and others you are getting at least few HDD bays, some systems even have build in HARDWARE RAID.

    apple mac pro 256GB base 1TB MAX

    no need for $300+ Expansion Chassis just to use a pci-e card at an MAX speed of PCI-E 2.0 X4 shared over the full TB bus. I think the Mac pro has 3 TB buses but with out an block map I don't know how the pci-e channels feeding them are setup.

    With the HP, Dell , Lenovno and others. You can use pci-e SSD cards and HDD's off of the build in SATA / SAS ports all in one case.
    <h3> </h3>

    The world has moved on from BYO -- you might want to try and catch up...
  • Reply 267 of 285
    drblankdrblank Posts: 3,383member
    joeb wrote: »

    With the HP, Dell , Lenovno and others you are getting at least few HDD bays, some systems even have build in HARDWARE RAID.

    apple mac pro 256GB base 1TB MAX

    no need for $300+ Expansion Chassis just to use a pci-e card at an MAX speed of PCI-E 2.0 X4 shared over the full TB bus. I think the Mac pro has 3 TB buses but with out an block map I don't know how the pci-e channels feeding them are setup.

    With the HP, Dell , Lenovno and others. You can use pci-e SSD cards and HDD's off of the build in SATA / SAS ports all in one case.
    <h3> </h3>
    joeb wrote: »

    With the HP, Dell , Lenovno and others you are getting at least few HDD bays, some systems even have build in HARDWARE RAID.

    apple mac pro 256GB base 1TB MAX

    no need for $300+ Expansion Chassis just to use a pci-e card at an MAX speed of PCI-E 2.0 X4 shared over the full TB bus. I think the Mac pro has 3 TB buses but with out an block map I don't know how the pci-e channels feeding them are setup.

    With the HP, Dell , Lenovno and others. You can use pci-e SSD cards and HDD's off of the build in SATA / SAS ports all in one case.
    <h3> </h3>


    And all of the PCIe cards cost money. See the problems with all of these internal drives, PCI cards is they need fans, power supplies, what happens is that big box becomes an expensive space heater and when you change out for a new base unit, you have to waste a lot of time/money yanking out a lot of things you wouldn't have to do. If you want storage, etc., you just add a TB box and keep it for the next unit, so you aren't constantly paying for slots, cages, power supplies, fans every time when you don't have to. And at the end of the day you still aren't running OS X and OS X based apps on any of these PC clones, which you have to pay extra for TB2 cards, which also take slots.
  • Reply 268 of 285
    marvfoxmarvfox Posts: 2,275member

    You cannot have everything in life . Sometimes we a have to sacrifice a little.

  • Reply 269 of 285
    drblankdrblank Posts: 3,383member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by marvfox View Post

     

    You cannot have everything in life . Sometimes we a have to sacrifice a little.


    Wel, there are some people out there that seem to get whatever they want. , even though they have no integrity, but that would be an entirely different subject.

  • Reply 270 of 285
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JoeB View Post

     



    With the HP, Dell , Lenovno and others you are getting at least few HDD bays, some systems even have build in HARDWARE RAID.

     

    apple mac pro 256GB base 1TB MAX

     

    no need for $300+ Expansion Chassis just to use a pci-e card at an MAX speed of PCI-E 2.0 X4 shared over the full TB bus. I think the Mac pro has 3 TB buses but with out an block map I don't know how the pci-e channels feeding them are setup.

     

    With the HP, Dell , Lenovno and others. You can use pci-e SSD cards and HDD's off of the build in SATA / SAS ports all in one case.

     


     

    The problem with SATA RAID is that you are limited to the speed of the SATA controller no matter how many drives you connect to it.  6 Gbit = 750 MBytes/sec

     

    The problem with using more than one PCI-E card in a PC case is that they already have RAID onboard to get their own speed and you can't RAID two of them together.

     

    That leaves you with only 1 option for getting a high speed 1.25 GByte/Sec drive into a PC:  Buy a single high-speed PCI-E SSD card and probably pay more for it to have its own card, heat sync, and cooling fan onboard compared to buying the drive that comes integrated into the new Mac Pro.  The PC will be larger, and louder, but not better.  You could buy the server PCI-e cards that are faster, but those are thousands more per card and can cost more than the entire Mac Pro.

  • Reply 271 of 285
    hmmhmm Posts: 3,405member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by fixmdude View Post

     

     

    That leaves you with only 1 option for getting a high speed 1.25 GByte/Sec drive into a PC:  Buy a single high-speed PCI-E SSD card and probably pay more for it to have its own card, heat sync, and cooling fan onboard compared to buying the drive that comes integrated into the new Mac Pro.  The PC will be larger, and louder, but not better.  You could buy the server PCI-e cards that are faster, but those are thousands more per card and can cost more than the entire Mac Pro.


     

    That's not really if you're adding PCIe hardware. You can get beyond that using an internal roc, and most workstations aren't terribly noisy. This whole discussion seems to have taken a weird turn with people highlighting its size. Apple presents it that way, because it's striking. It doesn't all translate into extra functional space, especially if you kept the old mac pro under your desk.

  • Reply 272 of 285
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by fixmdude View Post

     

     

    The problem with SATA RAID is that you are limited to the speed of the SATA controller no matter how many drives you connect to it.  6 Gbit = 750 MBytes/sec

     

    The problem with using more than one PCI-E card in a PC case is that they already have RAID onboard to get their own speed and you can't RAID two of them together.

     

    That leaves you with only 1 option for getting a high speed 1.25 GByte/Sec drive into a PC:  Buy a single high-speed PCI-E SSD card and probably pay more for it to have its own card, heat sync, and cooling fan onboard compared to buying the drive that comes integrated into the new Mac Pro.  The PC will be larger, and louder, but not better.  You could buy the server PCI-e cards that are faster, but those are thousands more per card and can cost more than the entire Mac Pro.


    you can have spanning raid arrays across cards also raid is not just about speed.

     

    And some people may want an fast os + app drive with maybe some working space and an bigger storage drive in the same box.

  • Reply 273 of 285
    marvfoxmarvfox Posts: 2,275member

    The Thinkpad X-61 was an excellent laptop for t he money.

  • Reply 274 of 285
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JoeB View Post

    you can have spanning raid arrays across cards also raid is not just about speed.

     

    And some people may want an fast os + app drive with maybe some working space and an bigger storage drive in the same box.

     

    If you RAID across PCI-e cards, you lose TRIM support, drivers don't support it yet.

    I'd rather have the working space and bigger storage be external so it can easily be moved between computers when needed. The OS and Apps aren't movable so those go on the internal fast drive. The external TB2 SSD drive can be powered by the TB2 bus and is fast enough to not notice a difference as with slow USB or Firewire. This also gives those who don't need a big box a small computer. Only those who need more, have to make room for more. A huge box is like salting everyone's food when not everyone wants salt, it only caters to those who have more to put in it and inconveniences the rest.
  • Reply 275 of 285
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmm View Post

     

    That's not really if you're adding PCIe hardware. You can get beyond that using an internal roc, and most workstations aren't terribly noisy. This whole discussion seems to have taken a weird turn with people highlighting its size. Apple presents it that way, because it's striking. It doesn't all translate into extra functional space, especially if you kept the old mac pro under your desk.

     

    Using an internal ROC and numerous slower SATA SSDs makes for a larger total expense and bundle of wires hassle compared to a single module that has it all built in. The discussion is focused on size because those who care about size are excited about the new Mac Pro and are here to discuss it. My home-built PC was in my living room next to my recliner. Big box moving air, collecting large amounts of carpet dust on the vents, humming noises while watching TV, hard to reach to turn on or to plug in USB devices to sync my phone or camera. I switched to a Macbook Pro for the size and quiet but don't have enough RAM now.

    Everyone has different needs. This new product serves a niche that was never served before: Lots of power in a small quiet case, while still allowing more devices fast connections for those who want them.
  • Reply 276 of 285
    drblankdrblank Posts: 3,383member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by marvfox View Post

     

    The Thinkpad X-61 was an excellent laptop for t he money.




    Are you sure you're on the right website?  I think you need to be on this website instead....http://forums.lenovo.com

  • Reply 277 of 285
    marvfoxmarvfox Posts: 2,275member

    Everyone has an opinion in life. Apple is not the cat's meow always.

  • Reply 278 of 285
    drblankdrblank Posts: 3,383member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by marvfox View Post

     

    Everyone has an opinion in life. Apple is not the cat's meow always.


     

    Well, they've been more than they've not been.  They have a much higher level of consistency and their direction is pretty clear and consistent.

     

    At least they always manage to come out with products that are actually exciting instead of the same boring stuff that's just a "me too" product.  Some of us don't want to spend our spare time trying to configure a system that ends up just being a a bunch of parts thrown together.   A hodgepodge computer isn't always the best.  It usually produces negative results by being more complicated than it really needs to be.

  • Reply 279 of 285
    Originally Posted by marvfox View Post

    Everyone has an opinion in life.

     

    Most of them are wrong.

     

    Apple is not the cat's meow always.


     

    Cats shouldn’t have citrus, anyway.

  • Reply 280 of 285
    drblankdrblank Posts: 3,383member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

     

     

    Most of them are wrong.

     

    Cats shouldn’t have citrus, anyway.


    Don't even bother with marvfox, he obviously needs to post on Lenovo's site instead of here.    I think he/she might be confused about this site..  He/she thinks it's the Thinkpad Insider or like we actually care about a older Thinkpad model.

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