This is as relevant a place as any; go ahead and ask.
I think I began having problems with what is known as 'Image Persistence' (similar to what I used to know as 'Ghosting' on RGB or Arcade monitors in the 1980s) about 7 or 8 months ago (April or May, 2013) - see similar/related images here,here and here. I've read enough about it so that I think I know what it is. The display (a 24" A.C.D.) is showing behavior that is consistent with Image Persistence (image retention on the display, although this seems to vary, both on the location of the display each time, and it also seems to take longer to appear, depending on how long the display has been off (even the number of days seems to have an effect)). I have already attempted the 'software' fixes (using an all white screen, or using alternating screensaver / patterns, but these do not seem to solve the long term problem, only short term). with Does anyone have any experience with this (Image Persistence)? Is this something, that while may not be common, is something that occasionally happens as displays age? I'm wondering what my options are .. as you can tell, so far, I have just been tolerating it. If it becomes too serious, I think that I would consider having the display repaired. Any ideas or suggestions, even related to the repair? I've thought about an Apple authorized repair location (not an Apple Store), near Pittsburgh. I seem to think that I feel that I trust smaller authorized repair locations more. I've been wondering about these issues for a while. Any help, thoughts or advice are appreciated. You may reply to me here, or, if you think that it to be more appropriate, you may send me a DM/PM. Thank you to anyone in advance.
I've seen a very similar issue with one of my 23" Cinema displays, but it seems to be related to (caused by?) the video card that is driving it (in this case an NVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT). Did you check whether this is a source -independent phenomenon?
Does anyone have any experience with this (Image Persistence)? Any ideas or suggestions, even related to the repair?
Dang, that’s about as bad as it gets, huh? I remember way back when I was teaching myself about these newfangled “flat” screens in replacing CRT and how “plasma burns in” and “LCD doesn’t”, and yet here we are with LCDs burning in. Fortunately I haven’t had any burn in, but I DO have panel damage on my 27” from something. No idea what it is; you can really only see it on certain colors, too. If the panel shows white or black it’s invisible, but on grey it just slaps you in the face. Some colors don’t show it, other colors do. No clue what it is or what caused it, but I’m out of warranty and can’t really do anything to fix it. When you buy a $1,000 panel, you expect it not to do this a year after purchase…
There’s also a much smaller patch of it (this is about an inch and a half long) at the top edge of my panel, but that’s hidden under the Menu Bar. Not that it’s acceptable, but…
The display (a 24" A.C.D.) is showing behavior that is consistent with Image Persistence (image retention on the display, although this seems to vary, both on the location of the display each time, and it also seems to take longer to appear, depending on how long the display has been off (even the number of days seems to have an effect)).
I have a Dell 20 inch with a LG IPS panel, that has daily use from about 2007. There is a large blob, 2/3 the width and about 2 inches tall, near the top where it has developed image persistence. If you physically touch the panel, the blob feels hotter. I suspect it's a degradation of the ITO electrode layer as the panel ages. In any case, the only repair is to replace the entire LCD panel.
Not retina, but tons of 1x pixel space! A niche product that I wish I could afford! Although the pixels might be too large for 2x retina usage and yet too small for legible 1x usage? Sounds like an awkward in-between.
Even more, I wish for an actual retina Thunderbolt display, around 27", to be used at 2x. 5120x2880 like those Mavericks wallpapers, please!
Apple offering this Sharp is probably a nail in that coffin for a while to come, though.
Apple's 27" display is 3.7 megapixels. This 32" Sharp is 8.3 megapixels. That's 2.24 times as large if used at 1x. But I could get close to that pixel area cheaper with a pair of Apple TB displays, if all I want is more workspace. (I'm not previewing 4k video.)
So, I'll get a good deal on a 24"-27" Dell to go with my upcoming Mac Pro. I'll appreciate the portrait rotation if nothing else. (But sadly, Dells lacks speakers by default.)
P.S. It's a little weird that Apple shows the Sharp display sitting next to an Airport base station, instead of, say, a Mac. It's not like AirPlay can push 4k... can it?
I agree. I want a 4K monitor but there's no point if it's 32", because then it's not Retina.
But more importantly, there was a leak last week showing a 24" Ultrasharp coming with the same resolution. 3840 x 2160 at 24" will be close enough to Retina for me.
Could that be the new Mac mini design? That have a standard 3.5 hard drive with PCIe flash? Just wishful thinking
Good catch! I've kinda been expecting a Mini rev and a small cube like that could produce an impressively compact computer. Out one of those PCI Express SSDs in there and the machine would rock. Well rock for normal usage, I'm not convinced that a Mini would ship with the GPU horse power to drive a 4K display.
That 32" Sharp display has a resolution of 3840x2160, which gives 138 PPI. That would means sitting at a distance of 25" to not be able to discern individual pixels ("Retina" in Apple's terms).
Those 5,120-by-2,880 wallpapers would be at 218 PPI if displayed at 27". That would require a distance of 16" to be "Retina." It'd be even better if Apple put that resolution in a 24" display, which would then be 244 PPI and require a distance of just 14" to be "Retina."
Dang, that’s about as bad as it gets, huh? I remember way back when I was teaching myself about these newfangled “flat” screens in replacing CRT and how “plasma burns in” and “LCD doesn’t”, and yet here we are with LCDs burning in. Fortunately I haven’t had any burn in, but I DO have panel damage on my 27” from something. No idea what it is; you can really only see it on certain colors, too. If the panel shows white or black it’s invisible, but on grey it just slaps you in the face. Some colors don’t show it, other colors do. No clue what it is or what caused it, but I’m out of warranty and can’t really do anything to fix it. When you buy a $1,000 panel, you expect it not to do this a year after purchase…
There’s also a much smaller patch of it (this is about an inch and a half long) at the top edge of my panel, but that’s hidden under the Menu Bar. Not that it’s acceptable, but…
I had something similar on an old Sony laptop screen, and I certainly remember how it happened.
I was cleaning the keyboard with one of those compressed-air cans with the red-straw to get into the crevices. For whatever reason, I tipped the can in such a way so that some of the propellant - which is like 100-degrees below zero - sprayed on the screen. It caused a very similar streak as what is on your monitor. It did damage the LCD panel, but the colors still displayed, albeit a bit washed-out in that area.
I learned to always keep those cans away from LCD panels. Any chance something similar happened to yours?
I don’t think so. The Apple TV will eventually have support for 2K displays.
Why do people call it 4K? It’s 2K. We measure from the short distance, not the long. What, they think they can magically change it now and no one will notice? Or maybe people are TOO STUPID to understand that 2K would have 4x the pixels of 1080p, so we have to call it “4K” because “4 is four times 1”.
Edit: Oops I didn't see that other people have posted about this already.
Anyone know (based on specs I guess) how this compares to the Dell 32" 4K monitor which is a lot cheaper? Dell also has (will have?) 27" and 24" versions.
Crazy theory : Maybe Apple wants to help the nascent third-party 4K monitors market grow faster by not making one themselves until next year?
I don't but but Phil Schiller kind of hinted there wouldn't be a 4K cinema display at WWDC. When he was showing off the the new Mac Pro plugged in to 3 4K monitors at once, he said something like "you will be able to use it with these beautiful *slight pause* 3rd party monitors"
Comments
Quote:
This is as relevant a place as any; go ahead and ask.
I think I began having problems with what is known as 'Image Persistence' (similar to what I used to know as 'Ghosting' on RGB or Arcade monitors in the 1980s) about 7 or 8 months ago (April or May, 2013) - see similar/related images here, here and here. I've read enough about it so that I think I know what it is. The display (a 24" A.C.D.) is showing behavior that is consistent with Image Persistence (image retention on the display, although this seems to vary, both on the location of the display each time, and it also seems to take longer to appear, depending on how long the display has been off (even the number of days seems to have an effect)). I have already attempted the 'software' fixes (using an all white screen, or using alternating screensaver / patterns, but these do not seem to solve the long term problem, only short term). with Does anyone have any experience with this (Image Persistence)? Is this something, that while may not be common, is something that occasionally happens as displays age? I'm wondering what my options are .. as you can tell, so far, I have just been tolerating it. If it becomes too serious, I think that I would consider having the display repaired. Any ideas or suggestions, even related to the repair? I've thought about an Apple authorized repair location (not an Apple Store), near Pittsburgh. I seem to think that I feel that I trust smaller authorized repair locations more. I've been wondering about these issues for a while. Any help, thoughts or advice are appreciated. You may reply to me here, or, if you think that it to be more appropriate, you may send me a DM/PM. Thank you to anyone in advance.
I've seen a very similar issue with one of my 23" Cinema displays, but it seems to be related to (caused by?) the video card that is driving it (in this case an NVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT). Did you check whether this is a source -independent phenomenon?
Does anyone have any experience with this (Image Persistence)? Any ideas or suggestions, even related to the repair?
Dang, that’s about as bad as it gets, huh? I remember way back when I was teaching myself about these newfangled “flat” screens in replacing CRT and how “plasma burns in” and “LCD doesn’t”, and yet here we are with LCDs burning in. Fortunately I haven’t had any burn in, but I DO have panel damage on my 27” from something. No idea what it is; you can really only see it on certain colors, too. If the panel shows white or black it’s invisible, but on grey it just slaps you in the face. Some colors don’t show it, other colors do. No clue what it is or what caused it, but I’m out of warranty and can’t really do anything to fix it. When you buy a $1,000 panel, you expect it not to do this a year after purchase…
There’s also a much smaller patch of it (this is about an inch and a half long) at the top edge of my panel, but that’s hidden under the Menu Bar. Not that it’s acceptable, but…
The display (a 24" A.C.D.) is showing behavior that is consistent with Image Persistence (image retention on the display, although this seems to vary, both on the location of the display each time, and it also seems to take longer to appear, depending on how long the display has been off (even the number of days seems to have an effect)).
I have a Dell 20 inch with a LG IPS panel, that has daily use from about 2007. There is a large blob, 2/3 the width and about 2 inches tall, near the top where it has developed image persistence. If you physically touch the panel, the blob feels hotter. I suspect it's a degradation of the ITO electrode layer as the panel ages. In any case, the only repair is to replace the entire LCD panel.
Not retina, but tons of 1x pixel space! A niche product that I wish I could afford! Although the pixels might be too large for 2x retina usage and yet too small for legible 1x usage? Sounds like an awkward in-between.
Even more, I wish for an actual retina Thunderbolt display, around 27", to be used at 2x. 5120x2880 like those Mavericks wallpapers, please!
Apple offering this Sharp is probably a nail in that coffin for a while to come, though.
Apple's 27" display is 3.7 megapixels. This 32" Sharp is 8.3 megapixels. That's 2.24 times as large if used at 1x. But I could get close to that pixel area cheaper with a pair of Apple TB displays, if all I want is more workspace. (I'm not previewing 4k video.)
So, I'll get a good deal on a 24"-27" Dell to go with my upcoming Mac Pro. I'll appreciate the portrait rotation if nothing else. (But sadly, Dells lacks speakers by default.)
P.S. It's a little weird that Apple shows the Sharp display sitting next to an Airport base station, instead of, say, a Mac. It's not like AirPlay can push 4k... can it?
I agree. I want a 4K monitor but there's no point if it's 32", because then it's not Retina.
If anyone is interested in an alternative product, Dell has a 32" 4K monitor out now, the Ultrasharp UP3214Q http://accessories.ap.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=au&cs=aubsd1&l=en&s=bsd&sku=210-ACBW&redirect=1 and Dell has a good reputation for monitors.
But more importantly, there was a leak last week showing a 24" Ultrasharp coming with the same resolution. 3840 x 2160 at 24" will be close enough to Retina for me.
There goes the 4K AppleTV theory...or does it?
Good catch! I've kinda been expecting a Mini rev and a small cube like that could produce an impressively compact computer. Out one of those PCI Express SSDs in there and the machine would rock. Well rock for normal usage, I'm not convinced that a Mini would ship with the GPU horse power to drive a 4K display.
http://www.dell.com/learn/us/en/uscorp1/secure/2013-12-2-dell-ultrasharp-ultra-hd-monitors
That 32" Sharp display has a resolution of 3840x2160, which gives 138 PPI. That would means sitting at a distance of 25" to not be able to discern individual pixels ("Retina" in Apple's terms).
Those 5,120-by-2,880 wallpapers would be at 218 PPI if displayed at 27". That would require a distance of 16" to be "Retina." It'd be even better if Apple put that resolution in a 24" display, which would then be 244 PPI and require a distance of just 14" to be "Retina."
Dang, that’s about as bad as it gets, huh? I remember way back when I was teaching myself about these newfangled “flat” screens in replacing CRT and how “plasma burns in” and “LCD doesn’t”, and yet here we are with LCDs burning in. Fortunately I haven’t had any burn in, but I DO have panel damage on my 27” from something. No idea what it is; you can really only see it on certain colors, too. If the panel shows white or black it’s invisible, but on grey it just slaps you in the face. Some colors don’t show it, other colors do. No clue what it is or what caused it, but I’m out of warranty and can’t really do anything to fix it. When you buy a $1,000 panel, you expect it not to do this a year after purchase…
There’s also a much smaller patch of it (this is about an inch and a half long) at the top edge of my panel, but that’s hidden under the Menu Bar. Not that it’s acceptable, but…
I had something similar on an old Sony laptop screen, and I certainly remember how it happened.
I was cleaning the keyboard with one of those compressed-air cans with the red-straw to get into the crevices. For whatever reason, I tipped the can in such a way so that some of the propellant - which is like 100-degrees below zero - sprayed on the screen. It caused a very similar streak as what is on your monitor. It did damage the LCD panel, but the colors still displayed, albeit a bit washed-out in that area.
I learned to always keep those cans away from LCD panels. Any chance something similar happened to yours?
I don’t think so. The Apple TV will eventually have support for 2K displays.
Why do people call it 4K? It’s 2K. We measure from the short distance, not the long. What, they think they can magically change it now and no one will notice? Or maybe people are TOO STUPID to understand that 2K would have 4x the pixels of 1080p, so we have to call it “4K” because “4 is four times 1”.
Not for long!
Any chance something similar happened to yours?
Nope, this is internal, visibly below the glass (just not in the photo).
Given all the glare on the product images, I would definitely say it is matte. Only matte screens cause that kind of glare.
You have it wrong. Just get any matte display and you will see that they have no glare.
28" 4K Dell is coming for under a grand. Now, that's a deal.
Talk about having it wrong.
Crazy theory : Maybe Apple wants to help the nascent third-party 4K monitors market grow faster by not making one themselves until next year?
Anyone know (based on specs I guess) how this compares to the Dell 32" 4K monitor which is a lot cheaper? Dell also has (will have?) 27" and 24" versions.
http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&cs=04&l=en&sku=210-ACBL
No IPS and no IGZO, that’s the main thing. Also, Dell, which tells you pretty much all you need to know.
Crazy theory : Maybe Apple wants to help the nascent third-party 4K monitors market grow faster by not making one themselves until next year?
I don't but but Phil Schiller kind of hinted there wouldn't be a 4K cinema display at WWDC. When he was showing off the the new Mac Pro plugged in to 3 4K monitors at once, he said something like "you will be able to use it with these beautiful *slight pause* 3rd party monitors"
$3412 USD.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00C4S25PY