We have tested this monitor at 4K with both the latest MacBook Pro Retina 15" (using its built-in support for 4K over HDMI 1.4), and at the end of a Thunderbolt 2 chain using a Sonnet Technologies' Thunderbolt 2 Echo Express PCIe Expansion Chassis (using Display Port in Multi-Stream mode). The image is impressive.
Apple is not really supporting the professional user base anymore. They just spent a fortune basically in marketing, which is the greatest value Apple gets from supporting pros. They are a consumer company now. So why on earth would they sink more money in R&D building a display that only a fraction of their loss-leading pro user base is going to buy anyway?
When all of their products support 4K then Apple will deliver a branded 4K display.
As opposed to…when? Apple has always been a consumer company. iPod. Pippin. QuickTake. Newton. Flower Power iMac.
If you're going to set the bar for "professional" at 4K, then by that definition, Apple has never been a professional company until now.
We have tested this monitor at 4K with both the latest MacBook Pro Retina 15" (using its built-in support for 4K over HDMI 1.4), and at the end of a Thunderbolt 2 chain using a Sonnet Technologies' Thunderbolt 2 Echo Express PCIe Expansion Chassis (using Display Port in Multi-Stream mode). The image is impressive.
Great, thanks for sharing this. Does it run at 60Hz on the rMBP and is it smooth enough at scrolling, UI animations etc?
On the subject of the Echo Express, a lot of the PCIe boxes are reviewed as having noisy fans and they are all expensive. Have you considered perhaps using larger, slower fans, maybe mounted between cards rotating length-wise like a water-mill or liquid-cooling that is sealed away from the cards? Also, is the price of those just down to the small demand or does it cost a lot to manufacturer these? When whole PCs with PCIe cards cost $500, $800 for just the slots seems excessive.
Isn't 800:1 contrast a bit low for such a mighty screen?
Yes. These numbers should be going up and they aren't. CRT contrast ratio kills LCD. But CRT is blurry, irregular around the entire surface area, and a massive waste in desktop space (I'm still using a 21" CRT). Still, when will LCD displays actually start to improve their color and contrary ratio? Must I spend $6000 on a medical display?? I can't spend twice as much on a display as on a computer.
I'll probably be using my CRT on a damn Mac Pro at this rate...
This Sharp monitor supports 60Hz refresh, so it's somewhat future-proof, but the latest MBP Retina supports 4K only up to 30Hz. The Mac Pro Tech Specs say HDMI 1.4, which is capable of 4K also only up to 30 Hz. (To get 60 Hz refresh at 4K over a single HDMI port, you would need HDMI 2.0 compliance, which neither the Mac Pro nor the Sharp monitor support.) It's possible that the Mac Pro with the Sharp will support 4K at 60Hz using dual-link HDMI, each link providing 1920x2160 at 60Hz, but we won't know until we see a Mac Pro. Yes, there is noticable motion blur at 30 Hz.
The 2nd Generation Sonnet Echo Express IIID Thunderbolt PCIe Expansion Chassis is significantly quieter than the 1st Gen–quiet enough to be used in a recording studio according to an editor who uses one.
Ahead of this month's debut of the revamped Mac Pro desktop, which can drive up to three 4K displays, Apple is selling a new 4K "Ultra HD" 32-inch LED IGZO monitor from manufacturer Sharp in its online store.
The Sharp PN-K321 4K monitor is currently available in various Apple online stores across Europe for 3,999 euros. It's also found in the U.K. store, but is not yet available in the U.S.
Can we get an update of this? I checked your link and the Sharp isn't on the Norway Apple Store. I also check the German and UK stores and it isn't there either. I can see your screen shot but unless it's the item that has the constant spinning whatever you call it, it isn't there.
Yes. These numbers should be going up and they aren't. CRT contrast ratio kills LCD. But CRT is blurry, irregular around the entire surface area, and a massive waste in desktop space (I'm still using a 21" CRT). Still, when will LCD displays actually start to improve their color and contrary ratio? Must I spend $6000 on a medical display?? I can't spend twice as much on a display as on a computer.
I'll probably be using my CRT on a damn Mac Pro at this rate...
How is that thing still running? Do keep in mind medical displays aren't always appropriate for general use.
CRT contrast ratio kills LCD. But CRT is blurry, irregular around the entire surface area, and a massive waste in desktop space (I'm still using a 21" CRT). Still, when will LCD displays actually start to improve their color and contrary ratio? Must I spend $6000 on a medical display?? I can't spend twice as much on a display as on a computer.
I'll probably be using my CRT on a damn Mac Pro at this rate...
CRTs generate black by turning off the electron gun so they'll always have higher ratios than LCDs illuminated by a backlight. OLED on the other hand turns pixels off so that'll give you CRT-like quality:
"LCD can only get down to 0.1 candelas of brightness, and CRT technology can only get down to 0.01, OLED can get right down to 0.0001 - which is basically as black as black can get in display terms.
Sony's OLED screens should be able to significantly outperform their CRT and LCD rivals in terms of dynamic range. For while typical LCD and CRT monitors enjoy native contrast ratios of around 1000:1 and 40,000:1 respectively, Sony's OLED screens deliver a claimed 1,000,000:1."
They are currently expensive - Sony had a $9k 56" 4K OLED TV on show and a 30" at one point:
I'm not sure what happened to those. The 30" one might make a nice computer monitor. I don't think it's all that big of a deal. The black-levels on modern displays are pretty good. Put a Dell Ultrasharp next to the CRT instead of obsessing over the spec and you won't look back.
It's possible that the Mac Pro with the Sharp will support 4K at 60Hz using dual-link HDMI, each link providing 1920x2160 at 60Hz, but we won't know until we see a Mac Pro. Yes, there is noticable motion blur at 30 Hz.
Maybe it'll be possible to put out half via Thunderbolt to HDMI, the other half via HDMI and then merge them. There was a test here where they came across the 30Hz problem:
What if they start making monitors with a wider width? Are you going to call 6K pixel monitor with 2K lines of resolution a 2K monitor?
They won’t; problem solved. " src="http://forums-files.appleinsider.com/images/smilies//lol.gif" />
Rather the same thing will happen as has always happened: they’ll delineate displays of those categories. It’ll say “2.39:1 2K display” or “16:9 2K display” and then list the actual #x# resolution.
This Sharp monitor supports 60Hz refresh, so it's somewhat future-proof, but the latest MBP Retina supports 4K only up to 30Hz. The Mac Pro Tech Specs say HDMI 1.4, which is capable of 4K also only up to 30 Hz. (To get 60 Hz refresh at 4K over a single HDMI port, you would need HDMI 2.0 compliance, which neither the Mac Pro nor the Sharp monitor support.) It's possible that the Mac Pro with the Sharp will support 4K at 60Hz using dual-link HDMI, each link providing 1920x2160 at 60Hz, but we won't know until we see a Mac Pro. Yes, there is noticable motion blur at 30 Hz.
The 2nd Generation Sonnet Echo Express IIID Thunderbolt PCIe Expansion Chassis is significantly quieter than the 1st Gen–quiet enough to be used in a recording studio according to an editor who uses one.
A guy on this thread claims to have got an MBP Retina 2013 producing 4K@60Hz out the Thunderbolt 2 port, by installing Windows 8.1
This Sharp monitor supports 60Hz refresh, so it's somewhat future-proof, but the latest MBP Retina supports 4K only up to 30Hz. The Mac Pro Tech Specs say HDMI 1.4, which is capable of 4K also only up to 30 Hz. (To get 60 Hz refresh at 4K over a single HDMI port, you would need HDMI 2.0 compliance, which neither the Mac Pro nor the Sharp monitor support.) It's possible that the Mac Pro with the Sharp will support 4K at 60Hz using dual-link HDMI, each link providing 1920x2160 at 60Hz, but we won't know until we see a Mac Pro. Yes, there is noticable motion blur at 30 Hz.
The 2nd Generation Sonnet Echo Express IIID Thunderbolt PCIe Expansion Chassis is significantly quieter than the 1st Gen–quiet enough to be used in a recording studio according to an editor who uses one.
That wouldn't make very much sense. The rmbp was supposed to support thunderbolt 2. Thunderbolt 2 is supposed to support displayport 1.2 protocols. The displayport 1.2 specification supports 4K @ 60hz. If the rmbp doesn't support that, then it doesn't fully support displayport 1.2, which was touted as a feature of thunderbolt 2.
I checked your link and the Sharp isn't on the Norway Apple Store. I also check the German and UK stores and it isn't there either.
Indeed; completely vanished from all Apple sites in Europe. For the ATI Radeon HD 5870 they at least display 'no longer being made' (in my Dutch Store). Let's hope the Sharp was simply a placeholder for their own 4k screen. It's weekend and I can dream, no?
@socalart Great info, thanks! And welcome to the forum.
That wouldn't make very much sense. The rmbp was supposed to support thunderbolt 2. Thunderbolt 2 is supposed to support displayport 1.2 protocols. The displayport 1.2 specification supports 4K @ 60hz. If the rmbp doesn't support that, then it doesn't fully support displayport 1.2, which was touted as a feature of thunderbolt 2.
The new MBPs do include TB2 but do not, at least officially, support 4K video out. Note that Apple does not say anywhere in their documentation that the new MBPs support 4K displays, unlike with the Mac Pro where they do state it many times. I assume this is a driver issue that will resolved shortly. Hopefully by the time the Mac Pro ships.
The new MBPs do include TB2 but do not, at least officially, support 4K video out. Note that Apple does not say anywhere in their documentation that the new MBPs support 4K displays, unlike with the Mac Pro where they do state it many times. I assume this is a driver issue that will resolved shortly. Hopefully by the time the Mac Pro ships.
They do officially say the new MBP supports 4K but only over HDMI @ 30Hz: http://support.apple.com/kb/HT6008
I also hope there will be a driver update, maybe 10.9.1? One of the test areas on 10.9.1 is video drivers.
I should have specified I was referring to TB2/DP.
The new MBPs do include TB2 but do not, at least officially, support 4K video out. Note that Apple does not say anywhere in their documentation that the new MBPs support 4K displays, unlike with the Mac Pro where they do state it many times. I assume this is a driver issue that will resolved shortly. Hopefully by the time the Mac Pro ships.
I would guess the same, although I'm not 100% sure. The 680 mac edition doesn't support 4K, and the 750m in the top rmbp is a lower clocked "notebook" chip based on the same architecture. I suspect there is some need for NVidia to do the near metal driver work, but if the chip has the capability, I would expect to see a driver update. Judder at 30hz isn't something I would want to view.
EIZO Releases 31.1" Super High Resolution 8 Megapixel Monitor for Multi-Modality Environments
Hakusan, Japan,November 27, 2013 – EIZO Corporation (TSE: 6737) announced the release of the RadiForce RX850, a 31.1-inch color LCD monitor capable of displaying 8 megapixels for multi-modality applications. The RadiForce RX850 is the successor of the RadiForce RX840-MG released last year, which was the first 8 megapixel monitor for multi-modality use.
EIZO’s 8 megapixel monitors act as effective replacements for multi-monitor setups for a smoother, more user-friendly environment when viewing numerous medical applications at once on a single screen. This allows medical professionals to conveniently view images side-by-side without the obtrusive bezels typically found in a multi-monitor environment.
What resolution is that?
Are we looking at 300 dpi (at last?) on a desktop? Looking at print resolution images 1:1 basis?
4k monitors are good news. But they'll be expensive. Though the Dell didn't seem too bad to me for the price. (I'll go to hell for saying that...)
Comments
Apple is not really supporting the professional user base anymore. They just spent a fortune basically in marketing, which is the greatest value Apple gets from supporting pros. They are a consumer company now. So why on earth would they sink more money in R&D building a display that only a fraction of their loss-leading pro user base is going to buy anyway?
When all of their products support 4K then Apple will deliver a branded 4K display.
As opposed to…when? Apple has always been a consumer company. iPod. Pippin. QuickTake. Newton. Flower Power iMac.
If you're going to set the bar for "professional" at 4K, then by that definition, Apple has never been a professional company until now.
Great, thanks for sharing this. Does it run at 60Hz on the rMBP and is it smooth enough at scrolling, UI animations etc?
On the subject of the Echo Express, a lot of the PCIe boxes are reviewed as having noisy fans and they are all expensive. Have you considered perhaps using larger, slower fans, maybe mounted between cards rotating length-wise like a water-mill or liquid-cooling that is sealed away from the cards? Also, is the price of those just down to the small demand or does it cost a lot to manufacturer these? When whole PCs with PCIe cards cost $500, $800 for just the slots seems excessive.
I'll probably be using my CRT on a damn Mac Pro at this rate...
This Sharp monitor supports 60Hz refresh, so it's somewhat future-proof, but the latest MBP Retina supports 4K only up to 30Hz. The Mac Pro Tech Specs say HDMI 1.4, which is capable of 4K also only up to 30 Hz. (To get 60 Hz refresh at 4K over a single HDMI port, you would need HDMI 2.0 compliance, which neither the Mac Pro nor the Sharp monitor support.) It's possible that the Mac Pro with the Sharp will support 4K at 60Hz using dual-link HDMI, each link providing 1920x2160 at 60Hz, but we won't know until we see a Mac Pro. Yes, there is noticable motion blur at 30 Hz.
The 2nd Generation Sonnet Echo Express IIID Thunderbolt PCIe Expansion Chassis is significantly quieter than the 1st Gen–quiet enough to be used in a recording studio according to an editor who uses one.
Ahead of this month's debut of the revamped Mac Pro desktop, which can drive up to three 4K displays, Apple is selling a new 4K "Ultra HD" 32-inch LED IGZO monitor from manufacturer Sharp in its online store.
The Sharp PN-K321 4K monitor is currently available in various Apple online stores across Europe for 3,999 euros. It's also found in the U.K. store, but is not yet available in the U.S.
Can we get an update of this? I checked your link and the Sharp isn't on the Norway Apple Store. I also check the German and UK stores and it isn't there either. I can see your screen shot but unless it's the item that has the constant spinning whatever you call it, it isn't there.
Yes. These numbers should be going up and they aren't. CRT contrast ratio kills LCD. But CRT is blurry, irregular around the entire surface area, and a massive waste in desktop space (I'm still using a 21" CRT). Still, when will LCD displays actually start to improve their color and contrary ratio? Must I spend $6000 on a medical display?? I can't spend twice as much on a display as on a computer.
I'll probably be using my CRT on a damn Mac Pro at this rate...
How is that thing still running? Do keep in mind medical displays aren't always appropriate for general use.
CRTs generate black by turning off the electron gun so they'll always have higher ratios than LCDs illuminated by a backlight. OLED on the other hand turns pixels off so that'll give you CRT-like quality:
http://www.trustedreviews.com/opinions/trusted-reviews-visits-sony-in-japan_Page-2
"LCD can only get down to 0.1 candelas of brightness, and CRT technology can only get down to 0.01, OLED can get right down to 0.0001 - which is basically as black as black can get in display terms.
Sony's OLED screens should be able to significantly outperform their CRT and LCD rivals in terms of dynamic range. For while typical LCD and CRT monitors enjoy native contrast ratios of around 1000:1 and 40,000:1 respectively, Sony's OLED screens deliver a claimed 1,000,000:1."
They are currently expensive - Sony had a $9k 56" 4K OLED TV on show and a 30" at one point:
I'm not sure what happened to those. The 30" one might make a nice computer monitor. I don't think it's all that big of a deal. The black-levels on modern displays are pretty good. Put a Dell Ultrasharp next to the CRT instead of obsessing over the spec and you won't look back.
Maybe it'll be possible to put out half via Thunderbolt to HDMI, the other half via HDMI and then merge them. There was a test here where they came across the 30Hz problem:
http://blogs.windows.com/windows/b/extremewindows/archive/2013/07/25/pushing-the-12k-pc-gaming-boundary-at-1-5-billion-pixels-per-second.aspx
They said they managed it over displayport though with the right driver support.
They won’t; problem solved.
" src="http://forums-files.appleinsider.com/images/smilies//lol.gif" />
Rather the same thing will happen as has always happened: they’ll delineate displays of those categories. It’ll say “2.39:1 2K display” or “16:9 2K display” and then list the actual #x# resolution.
This Sharp monitor supports 60Hz refresh, so it's somewhat future-proof, but the latest MBP Retina supports 4K only up to 30Hz. The Mac Pro Tech Specs say HDMI 1.4, which is capable of 4K also only up to 30 Hz. (To get 60 Hz refresh at 4K over a single HDMI port, you would need HDMI 2.0 compliance, which neither the Mac Pro nor the Sharp monitor support.) It's possible that the Mac Pro with the Sharp will support 4K at 60Hz using dual-link HDMI, each link providing 1920x2160 at 60Hz, but we won't know until we see a Mac Pro. Yes, there is noticable motion blur at 30 Hz.
The 2nd Generation Sonnet Echo Express IIID Thunderbolt PCIe Expansion Chassis is significantly quieter than the 1st Gen–quiet enough to be used in a recording studio according to an editor who uses one.
A guy on this thread claims to have got an MBP Retina 2013 producing 4K@60Hz out the Thunderbolt 2 port, by installing Windows 8.1
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/5475430
This Sharp monitor supports 60Hz refresh, so it's somewhat future-proof, but the latest MBP Retina supports 4K only up to 30Hz. The Mac Pro Tech Specs say HDMI 1.4, which is capable of 4K also only up to 30 Hz. (To get 60 Hz refresh at 4K over a single HDMI port, you would need HDMI 2.0 compliance, which neither the Mac Pro nor the Sharp monitor support.) It's possible that the Mac Pro with the Sharp will support 4K at 60Hz using dual-link HDMI, each link providing 1920x2160 at 60Hz, but we won't know until we see a Mac Pro. Yes, there is noticable motion blur at 30 Hz.
The 2nd Generation Sonnet Echo Express IIID Thunderbolt PCIe Expansion Chassis is significantly quieter than the 1st Gen–quiet enough to be used in a recording studio according to an editor who uses one.
That wouldn't make very much sense. The rmbp was supposed to support thunderbolt 2. Thunderbolt 2 is supposed to support displayport 1.2 protocols. The displayport 1.2 specification supports 4K @ 60hz. If the rmbp doesn't support that, then it doesn't fully support displayport 1.2, which was touted as a feature of thunderbolt 2.
Indeed; completely vanished from all Apple sites in Europe. For the ATI Radeon HD 5870 they at least display 'no longer being made' (in my Dutch Store). Let's hope the Sharp was simply a placeholder for their own 4k screen. It's weekend and I can dream, no?
@socalart Great info, thanks! And welcome to the forum.
Unfortunately, this will be a $8,000 display monitor excluding the high performance graphics processing unit required.
The new MBPs do include TB2 but do not, at least officially, support 4K video out. Note that Apple does not say anywhere in their documentation that the new MBPs support 4K displays, unlike with the Mac Pro where they do state it many times. I assume this is a driver issue that will resolved shortly. Hopefully by the time the Mac Pro ships.
The new MBPs do include TB2 but do not, at least officially, support 4K video out. Note that Apple does not say anywhere in their documentation that the new MBPs support 4K displays, unlike with the Mac Pro where they do state it many times. I assume this is a driver issue that will resolved shortly. Hopefully by the time the Mac Pro ships.
They do officially say the new MBP supports 4K but only over HDMI @ 30Hz: http://support.apple.com/kb/HT6008
I also hope there will be a driver update, maybe 10.9.1? One of the test areas on 10.9.1 is video drivers.
I should have specified I was referring to TB2/DP.
The new MBPs do include TB2 but do not, at least officially, support 4K video out. Note that Apple does not say anywhere in their documentation that the new MBPs support 4K displays, unlike with the Mac Pro where they do state it many times. I assume this is a driver issue that will resolved shortly. Hopefully by the time the Mac Pro ships.
I would guess the same, although I'm not 100% sure. The 680 mac edition doesn't support 4K, and the 750m in the top rmbp is a lower clocked "notebook" chip based on the same architecture. I suspect there is some need for NVidia to do the near metal driver work, but if the chip has the capability, I would expect to see a driver update. Judder at 30hz isn't something I would want to view.
And the '8k' link?
Press Releases
EIZO Releases 31.1" Super High Resolution 8 Megapixel Monitor for Multi-Modality Environments
EIZO’s 8 megapixel monitors act as effective replacements for multi-monitor setups for a smoother, more user-friendly environment when viewing numerous medical applications at once on a single screen. This allows medical professionals to conveniently view images side-by-side without the obtrusive bezels typically found in a multi-monitor environment.
What resolution is that?
Are we looking at 300 dpi (at last?) on a desktop? Looking at print resolution images 1:1 basis?
4k monitors are good news. But they'll be expensive. Though the Dell didn't seem too bad to me for the price. (I'll go to hell for saying that...)
Lemon Bon Bon.
The 27 inch iMac screen res is good. But it's no retina screen. I can tell the difference between the Macbook Pro/iPad/iPhone vs it.
It's just not as sharp. Pun not intended.
It stretched my eyeballs a little.
Lemon Bon Bon.