Apple's Schiller 'unfollows' Tony Fadell and Nest after Google acquisition

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  • Reply 121 of 162
    Tony Fadell is a traitor. And Google just got ripped off.....AGAIN!!! 3 BILLION?! For Nest...Really? I could understand buying Samesong or Pokia for 3 billion, but NEST? Wow. How's that Motocrapa aquisition going for ya, anyhow?
  • Reply 122 of 162
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    jungmark wrote: »
    "Poor track record"? That's a funny way of saying Apple doesn't overspend on acquisitions.

    1) I thought it was nicer way of saying "There is zero history..."

    2) Overspending can't be assessed without a huge grain of salt. That's like when people Apple's products are overpriced.
  • Reply 123 of 162
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    jungmark wrote: »
    Doubtful. If Apple wanted Nest, Nest would be part of Apple.
    what if Tony Fadell didn't want to go back to Apple? It's obvious if Apple had bought Nest they wouldn't have kept it as a stand alone product/division so where would Fadell go?
  • Reply 124 of 162
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member

    That's actually an impossible statement to make. Some components of most Apple products have been designed by a 3rd party. Please don't make absolute statements when you don't know the facts.
    Care to list the Apple products from 1998-now that were designed by a 3rd party? And to be clear when I'm talking design, I'm talking design of the end product, not an internal component.
  • Reply 125 of 162
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    Just reading the history of the iPod itself would change someone's mind about how much Apple relies on 3rd parties.
    Apple acquires technology but the end solution is in-house. Like AuthenTec. Apple isn't selling fingerprint scanners; they used the technology to create Touch ID. Perhaps you can give us a list of Apple hardware products that are designed by a 3rd party. My understanding is Tony Fadell, Jeff Robbin, etc. were all Apple employees by the time the iPod was released. Certainly the aesthetic design was in-house.
  • Reply 126 of 162
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,146member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Deewin View Post

     

    I have a feeling that Tim is upset after secretly not being able to buy Nest over Google. Tony has already worked for Apple and from one of his recent interviews (too lazy to find it) it seems like he doesn't want to go back there. 


    Fadell had issues with Ive and Forstall.   He wasn't coming back to Cupertino anytime soon. 

  • Reply 127 of 162
    So what? Talk about dregs. It's really pathetic that this is being treated like major news. It's not
  • Reply 128 of 162
    Is Nest really that valuable a company? There is unlikely any IP value there. There are competitors that make similar devices that get no press. In the fall of 2011 I had to install a new furnace. Bought Lennox furnace/air conditioner which gave me the option of including smart features. The furnace itself monitors the furnace internals and components, feeds the information to a thermostat controller. Emergency conditions are sent via wifi to the local installer, I get additional messages on my iPad and iPhone. And, of course, I can program and control the system using the app.

    There is little value in the remote monitors like Nest thermostats unless there are deep integrations with the appliances.
  • Reply 129 of 162
    *unlikely any IP*
  • Reply 130 of 162
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post





    Apple acquires technology but the end solution is in-house. Like AuthenTec. Apple isn't selling fingerprint scanners; they used the technology to create Touch ID. Perhaps you can give us a list of Apple hardware products that are designed by a 3rd party. My understanding is Tony Fadell, Jeff Robbin, etc. were all Apple employees by the time the iPod was released. Certainly the aesthetic design was in-house.

     

    Steve Jobs: "Design is not just what it looks like and feels like. Design is how it works."

     

    ... and to get it to work properly, the way that Apple wanted it to work, was not all in-house... until Apple bought the rights. The original software for iTunes, a lot of the technology for the  iPod... and Tony Fadell... who, in the beginning, was a consultant.

     

    - Tony Fadell was hired as an engineering consultant to help create the iPod

     

    - Sound Jam under newly hired Jeff Robbin became iTunes

     

    - Apple bought Portal Player for the iPod design framework

     

    - the basic software for the iPod came from Pixo

     

    - the name, iPod, came from Vinnie Chieco, a freelance copywriter

     

    So, as much as the shell came from Ive, in-house, the birth of the iPod came from many sources... including NeXt itself... and, according to Steve, design isn't just about the shell.

     

    So, to compare it to Nest... Fadell might have had someone else design the shell but the engineering, the part that makes it work, came from in-house... because Nest isn't selling shells... it's selling thermostats.

  • Reply 131 of 162
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

     

    Fadell had issues with Ive and Forstall.   He wasn't coming back to Cupertino anytime soon. 


     

    ... and Ive had issues with Forstall as well [.... and Jon Rubinstein].

  • Reply 132 of 162

    Nest has been around for quite a while now. We hardly ever heard anything about Nest on AppleInsider, except when they announce a new product. There was never any talk about Apple buying Nest. 

     

    Why is it that all of a sudden, after Google pays a princely sum for Nest, people say that Apple should have bought Nest? What changed? How did Nest magically become the must-have company for Apple? Better yet, how does Google buying Nest magically turn it into the company that Apple should have bought instead?

  • Reply 133 of 162
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post





    what if Tony Fadell didn't want to go back to Apple? It's obvious if Apple had bought Nest they wouldn't have kept it as a stand alone product/division so where would Fadell go?

     

    Tony Fadell was none too bright while at Apple. The moment the guy proposed Apple use mklinux for the kernel on the iPhone I knew this guy did not realize we NeXT engineers took over the company and its future.

     

    You were never going to see Linux at Apple, period. The guy is a great bullshiter. There is no way he should have climbed the ranks within Apple like he did, but some folks managed [at the time] to garner steve's ear and if he liked you you got launched up quickly. If he didn't like you he'd bury you.

     

    I give Fadell an A+ for creative branding of one subject: Tony Fadell.

  • Reply 134 of 162
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    Steve Jobs: "Design is not just what it looks like and feels like. Design is how it works."

    ... and to get it to work properly, the way that Apple wanted it to work, was not all in-house... until Apple bought the rights. The original software for iTunes, a lot of the technology for the  iPod... and Tony Fadell... who, in the beginning, was a consultant.

    - Tony Fadell was hired as an engineering consultant to help create the iPod

    - Sound Jam under newly hired Jeff Robbin became iTunes

    - Apple bought Portal Player for the iPod design framework

    - the basic software for the iPod came from Pixo

    - the name, iPod, came from Vinnie Chieco, a freelance copywriter

    So, as much as the shell came from Ive, in-house, the birth of the iPod came from many sources... including NeXt itself... and, according to Steve, design isn't just about the shell.

    So, to compare it to Nest... Fadell might have had someone else design the shell but the engineering, the part that makes it work, came from in-house... because Nest isn't selling shells... it's selling thermostats.
    I've said multiple times that Apple acquires technology they think they need and then uses that technology in development of an end product/solution. And I've never said that design is only the shell. But a lot of the reporting of the Nest acquisition was that Google was infusing itself with good design by hiring Fadell. I'm just pointing out that the design most of the mediais referring to was done by someone else (Fred Bould of Bould design). Would Nest have sold as well as it did or have been featured in Apple stores if it didn't have sleek design? Because I keep hearing that there are cheaper solutions that work just as well (in some cases better) than Nest products do. But they probably don't look as nice on your wall/ceiling.
  • Reply 135 of 162
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    ... and Ive had issues with Forstall as well [.... and Jon Rubinstein].
    And Mansfield, Cue and Schiller all allegedly had issues with Forstall. According to John Gruber, Fadell left Apple because once the iPhone happened the iPod team was no longer the "A" team at Apple and Fadell wasn't a "B" team player.

    http://daringfireball.net/2008/11/executive_scuttlebutt

    I tend to believe Fadell and Forestall had issues because back in 2012 when he was asked about Apple firing Forstall, Fadell said "he got what he deserved".

    http://appleinsider.com/articles/12/11/29/tony-fadell-recently-ousted-forstall-got-what-he-deserved

    Of course it's all silly gossip and none of us what really happened.
  • Reply 136 of 162
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    I give Fadell an A+ for creative branding of one subject: Tony Fadell.
    Like this?
    http://www.fastcodesign.com/3016339/an-oral-history-of-apple-design-2013#2
    At Apple, we were always asking, What else can we revolutionize? We looked at video cameras and remote controls. The craziest thing we talked about was something like Google Glass. We said, "What if we make visors, so it's like you're sitting in a theater?" I built a bunch of those prototypes. But we had such success with the things we were already doing that we didn't have time.

    Notice how Fadell switches from "we" to "I" in that quote. One thing about current Apple executives is you never hear them say "I". It's always "we". With Fadell I hear lots of "I". I don't think that would fit in to Cook's current culture of collaboration and no politics.
  • Reply 137 of 162
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post





    I've said multiple times that Apple acquires technology they think they need and then uses that technology in development of an end product/solution. And I've never said that design is only the shell. But a lot of the reporting of the Nest acquisition was that Google was infusing itself with good design by hiring Fadell. 

    I would have thought that Google was more interested in Nest's experience with applied machine learning. Google usually emphasizes how smart and technologically advanced their products are, not how sleek they look.

  • Reply 138 of 162
    kibitzerkibitzer Posts: 1,113member
    The Nest is cool, but the Webee is what I'll be investing in. Not as invasive, and definitely better A.I. http://igg.me/at/webee-smart-home-automation/x/5944165

    Intriguing. Conceptually, it addresses the thought that's been nagging me, that Nest by comparison is a one-trick pony in the home automation universe. Webee is a pretty ambitious effort for a startup, though the people no doubt are top-notch. I won't be a first adopter, but certainly will think about it should they be able to make it work in the real world. The first generation is pretty kludgy with all the plug-ins to run non-smart devices, so the next obvious step would be to incorporate the technology into, for instance, 110V or 220V outlets that can fit the dimensions of regular wall receptacles.

    I'll differ with you on invasiveness, though. If the software and data are in the cloud and doing controlling and making suggestions and reminders to your home environment, then you're permitting it to be invasive. The real issue is - by whom?
  • Reply 139 of 162
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,200moderator
    This purchase is an easy way round any anti-poaching agreements. You can see some of the ex-Apple people in the bio:

    https://nest.com/about/

    [IMG ALT=""]http://forums.appleinsider.com/content/type/61/id/37508/width/500/height/1000[/IMG]

    Loads of Mac users in there. Fadell showed Brin the Nest prototype years ago and Google was one of the early funders. All they needed to do was convince Apple guys to go work at a startup and then get bought by Google. They have one of the lead engineers for the iPhone, maybe he can finally sort out that lagging in Android. They also have one of the guys that secured Apple's patents.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/google/10570051/Google-buys-Wi-Fi-thermostat-company-Nest-Labs-for-3.2bn.html

    "The deal values Nest at more than $2m for every day it has been in business, but Mr Fadell said it had not sold the business to the web search giant “on a whim”. “Google has been in the mix in some way or another for about three years of our almost four-year history,” he said.

    It marks a blockbuster return for the venture capital firms – including Google’s own investment fund, Google Ventures – who backed Nest Labs. Kleiner Perkins Caulfield and Buyers, Shasta Ventures and Lightspeed Venture partners all have undisclosed stakes in the business.

    Mr Fadell is also set for a major windfall, although the engineer has joked in the past that he is already so rich he “never needs to work again”."

    http://blogs.wsj.com/venturecapital/2014/01/13/google-to-buy-nest-labs-for-3-2-billion-fantastic-return-for-investors/

    "Kleiner Perkins will make a 20-fold return, a person familiar with the matter told The Wall Street Journal.

    Mr. Nieh declined on Monday to speak to Nest’s financial performance in detail, saying only, “It’s grown rapidly.”"

    http://www.theverge.com/2013/1/30/3933412/nest-shipping-over-40000-thermostats-every-month

    If the growth continues, they say 1 million units per year. That's significantly lower than any products Apple sells. Even the Apple TV is about 8 million per year now and typically Apple doesn't do hobbies.

    The revenue isn't bad at $250 per unit but $250m per year is still a fair bit below the $3.2b purchase, especially as that's revenue and not profit. They only have 300 staff too so it's a lot to pay.

    Yeah I'm going to unfollow Fadell too and Google. Oh wait, I wasn't following them anyway. Job done. I don't get how twitter can play such a meaningful part of people's lives. A 140 character limit pretty much requires you to discard most of the meaning in what you're saying. Maybe it'll change one day and actually be worth using:

    http://www.thedrum.com/news/2013/10/04/twitter-tipped-increase-140-character-limit-accommodate-adverts-after-stock

    I kind of wish twitter replaced SMS. Instead of using phone numbers, you'd just use the twitter id but the conversations would need to be private by default and not go on a public feed. That would be a neat way to get Apple support. Just send a short tweet about symptoms, tweet a picture with it. iMessage is sort of like this but there's no public counterpart so you can't find businesses or high profile people. Naturally individuals want some privacy but that can be an option. They can choose to only read tweets from trusted users and everything else can go into an unread stream.
  • Reply 140 of 162
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    d4njvrzf wrote: »
    I would have thought that Google was more interested in Nest's experience with applied machine learning. Google usually emphasizes how smart and technologically advanced their products are, not how sleek they look.
    You're probably right. I'm going strictly by the media reporting.
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