Putting costly and fragile electronic devices in your back pocket and bloody well sitting on them, and shifting your weight on them, is NOT the way to take care of your device.
Not Apple's fault.
Don't sit on your devices, folks. This should be obvious, but a good chunk of the under-30 population of today is practically brain-dead.
Whether people should put their phones in their back pocket or not is irrelevant. The fact is that people WILL put their phones in their back pocket. It's not at all uncommon. So you have to design for that. Which is not to say they have to make the phone indestructible. Of course that would come with far too many trade-offs. But they should at least do whatever they can such that a common method of carrying the phone doesn't cause it to burst into flames. Could just be a manufacturing default though.
This sucks. I'm glad she wasn't more seriously injured. Damned lio batteries carry so much energy in them. At least they're normally safe for the vast majority.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lukevaxhacker
My daughters' middle school solves this problem simply: All students turn their mobile phones into the office for the day.
That's one way to handle it. On the other hand, my son's middle school encourages them to bring their phones/iPod Touch devices to school, and to class, and participate in class with them. They all get school-hosted wifi access too.
I believe the girl sat on the phone, it broke and internals electrified parts came in contact and get on fire. For this, the iPhones should be made more flexible.
Smartphones don’t have to be flat. They don’t have to be rigid either. LG and Samsung are offering 2 phones that goes in this direction.
Reports says Apple is copying Samsung Galaxy Note 3 phablette, it could also copy LG G Flex flexible smartphone.
Doing so, Apple would make an "evolution" of the flexible phone.
It could save butt.
You can't stupid-proof everything. Flexible or not, hours of sitting on the phone and the force of sitting down will cause damage.
Putting costly and fragile electronic devices in your back pocket and bloody well sitting on them, and shifting your weight on them, is NOT the way to take care of your device.
Not Apple's fault.
Don't sit on your devices, folks. This should be obvious, but a good chunk of the under-30 population of today is practically brain-dead.
It's true. And they always try to defend this stupid, stupid practice. These devices are thin, narrow, and long, and they are not compatible with tight clothes and the stresses induced by the body as you move about, sit, etc. I tried my 5th gen Touch in the front pocket of some pants that are tighter than I normally wear, and it was immediately obvious that the Touch was being stressed. So what did I do? I stopped carrying it that way under those conditions. Looser pants with deeper pockets are fine, but I'm still careful to ensure the long side of the Touch is oriented parallel to my leg when I sit down. I would never consider carrying it a back pocket and sitting down on it. That's just completely stupid. That said, I certainly hope that the phone bursting into flame when bent in half is an anomaly.
Does a popping sound and smoke constitute a "fire"? I know many people believe "where there's smoke there's fire", however, in the absence of flames or ignition of available fuels, I don't think "fire" is an appropriate description. But I wasn't there.
Sitting on one's smartphone is monumentally stupid--imagine shards of glass slicing through your pocket and into your flesh! Yet many people do put their phones in the back pocket.
This does not bode well for "wearable technology", IMO.
I don't think it matters if she kept it in a dumb place or not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Are you serious? A lit match shouldn’t ignite gas when thrown on it?
You're supporting my point, which was that if it truly did ignite merely by sitting with it in her back pocket, the "Oh, she sat on it, then there's nothing to see here, move along" response is far from what we *may* be looking at. It doesn't matter if she kept it in safely away in her purse if a heavy object falls on it and this is what happens .03% of the time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by starbird73es.
Well, you aren't supposed to put batteries in the trash in the past few states I have lived in. They are supposed to be "recycled" and "disposed of properly" - But the real issue is that they are hazardous waste, with the ability to ignite. These are energy sources, and that energy must go somewhere if it isn't properly contained/restrained. Hence all the warning labels.
Sure, but it's not even about disposing of them properly, though I used the example of the danger of someone tossing one in a dumpster. It's about anything with equal force of the downward sit of a 13 year old girl on the phone and it catching fire instead of just breaking.
You're supporting my point, which was that if it truly did ignite merely by sitting with it in her back pocket, the "Oh, she sat on it, then there's nothing to see here, move along" response is far from what we *may* be looking at.
She quite plainly sat on it. I’m nowhere near supporting your point.
Sure, but it's not even about disposing of them properly, though I used the example of the danger of someone tossing one in a dumpster. It's about anything with equal force of the downward sit of a 13 year old girl on the phone and it catching fire instead of just breaking.
It isn't a case of it instantly catching fire. It is the break that causes the fire. That is trade off of our current battery technology. Aside from making every battery literally indestructible (not saying we shouldn't, just not sure the technology/trade offs are there yet), the end user has to take some responsibility and care of it.
She quite plainly sat on it. I’m nowhere near supporting your point.
And it isn't even the sitting on it that causes the issue. It is the damage done when sitting. Every battery has a DO NOT PUNCTURE warning on it, for this very reason.
Hmm. Looking at the damage in the picture, are they sure it wasn't held in a flame, lighter, matches, bunsen burner, previous to being placed in the pocket? It's just that to me it looks like the scorching, smoke / soot marks on the screen, & buttons damaged just like the case, look like they could have been caused by an external source.
Not saying that something didn't happen in her pocket, but if it was previously damaged by her, or bullies, it's not the phone to blame exactly.
It isn't a case of it instantly catching fire. It is the break that causes the fire. That is trade off of our current battery technology. Aside from making every battery literally indestructible (not saying we shouldn't, just not sure the technology/trade offs are there yet), the end user has to take some responsibility and care of it.
Where did it break? It looks intact, other than the scorch marks.
She quite plainly sat on it. I’m nowhere near supporting your point.
No one's saying she didn't sit on it, of course she did. Again, if all it takes to ignite it is the weight of a 13 year old girl then the back pocket is not the problem and saying just keep it out of your back pocket is not the answer. The issue isn't about pockets and sitting. Besides, you're assuming that she broke the phone by sitting on it, which the story does not say. Just because she heard a pop when she sat doesn't mean she traumatized the battery with the force, and in fact that is never even implied. Looking at the picture the phone doesn't look like a phone that was crunched at all, just burned. If she didn't crunch it, her sitting with it did nothing wrong regardless of the fact that the battery popped when she did.
Quote:
Originally Posted by starbird73
It isn't a case of it instantly catching fire. It is the break that causes the fire. That is trade off of our current battery technology. Aside from making every battery literally indestructible (not saying we shouldn't, just not sure the technology/trade offs are there yet), the end user has to take some responsibility and care of it.
Yes, absolutely true. But we can't talk about 13 year olds as if they're 21, and we're really talking about 10 year olds. If they're responsible enough to use a phone but not enough to understand what we're talking about here, what do we do? The phones aren't being sold on the basis of children's ability to follow that and really most adults don't follow it either (but that's another thing altogether).
Quote:
Originally Posted by starbird73
And it isn't even the sitting on it that causes the issue. It is the damage done when sitting. Every battery has a DO NOT PUNCTURE warning on it, for this very reason.
Yes, but what 10 year old will tell you they've ever read a battery label? Especially one inside a phone that they never see?
To be sure, these kinds of accidents happen often enough with cell phones in general, and it's not an Apple issue, just a lithium-ion battery one, and none if that hinges on sitting with one in your back pocket. I'm just saying that the answer really has nothing to do with how she handled it if that's all it took, and I have no doubt it was going to happen with her particular phone eventually no matter what she did, and in the case of a 2 month old phone with all original parts and no modifications we need to stop pointing at her as the cause. When phone battery fires are reported (Google shows plenty of stories) they're generally never attributed to misuse. Why are people holding this girl responsible for it, as if she's the problem?
No one's saying she didn't sit on it, of course she did. Again, if all it takes to ignite it is the weight of a 13 year old girl then the back pocket is not the problem and saying just keep it out of your back pocket is not the answer. The issue isn't about pockets and sitting. Besides, you're assuming that she broke the phone by sitting on it, which the story does not say. Just because she heard a pop when she sat doesn't mean she traumatized the battery with the force, and in fact that is never even implied. Looking at the picture the phone doesn't look like a phone that was crunched at all, just burned. If she didn't crunch it, her sitting with it did nothing wrong regardless of the fact that the battery popped when she did.
Yes, absolutely true. But we can't talk about 13 year olds as if they're 21, and we're really talking about 10 year olds. If they're responsible enough to use a phone but not enough to understand what we're talking about here, what do we do? The phones aren't being sold on the basis of children's ability to follow that and really most adults don't follow it either (but that's another thing altogether).
Yes, but what 10 year old will tell you they've ever read a battery label? Especially one inside a phone that they never see?
To be sure, these kinds of accidents happen often enough with cell phones in general, and it's not an Apple issue, just a lithium-ion battery one, and none if that hinges on sitting with one in your back pocket. I'm just saying that the answer really has nothing to do with how she handled it if that's all it took, and I have no doubt it was going to happen with her particular phone eventually no matter what she did, and in the case of a 2 month old phone with all original parts and no modifications we need to stop pointing at her as the cause. When phone battery fires are reported (Google shows plenty of stories) they're generally never attributed to misuse. Why are people holding this girl responsible for it, as if she's the problem?
No, not blaming the 10/13 year old directly. She is the responsibility of her parents. Improper use (conditions that cause failure) is the cause, not "the battery wasn't built correctly"
If I hand a 13 year old a BB gun and they shoot their 10 year old brother's eye out by standing three feet away from something, it ricochets off something, is it the gun manufacturers fault? How about the bullet manufacturer? The DPW who made the stop sign that was shot? But we are all jumping to conclusions that this family will sue Apple.
Back to the parents. As a parent of kids 9, 12, and 19, I make sure they know how to take care of things. The younger two have iPod touches. They know the rules. In a case. Not in pant pockets. You don't throw them, put stuff on them, etc. and they look as good as the day they bought them.
As a parent of kids 9, 12, and 19, I make sure they know how to take care of things. The younger two have iPod touches. They know the rules. In a case. Not in pant pockets. You don't throw them, put stuff on them, etc. and they look as good as the day they bought them.
I love you.
Brings a tear to my eye, parents doing their jobs.
To be sure, these kinds of accidents happen often enough with cell phones in general, and it's not an Apple issue, just a lithium-ion battery one, and none if that hinges on sitting with one in your back pocket. I'm just saying that the answer really has nothing to do with how she handled it if that's all it took, and I have no doubt it was going to happen with her particular phone eventually no matter what she did, and in the case of a 2 month old phone with all original parts and no modifications we need to stop pointing at her as the cause. When phone battery fires are reported (Google shows plenty of stories) they're generally never attributed to misuse. Why are people holding this girl responsible for it, as if she's the problem?
All of the iPhone fires/injuries/deaths have been because of misuse or faulty accessories. Cite one instance otherwise.
This girl broke her phone by sitting on it. That's a FACT. And NO, it's not reasonable to expect a phone to stand up to anything and everything you do to it.
Comments
Well just as I thought.
Putting costly and fragile electronic devices in your back pocket and bloody well sitting on them, and shifting your weight on them, is NOT the way to take care of your device.
Not Apple's fault.
Don't sit on your devices, folks. This should be obvious, but a good chunk of the under-30 population of today is practically brain-dead.
Whether people should put their phones in their back pocket or not is irrelevant. The fact is that people WILL put their phones in their back pocket. It's not at all uncommon. So you have to design for that. Which is not to say they have to make the phone indestructible. Of course that would come with far too many trade-offs. But they should at least do whatever they can such that a common method of carrying the phone doesn't cause it to burst into flames. Could just be a manufacturing default though.
This sucks. I'm glad she wasn't more seriously injured. Damned lio batteries carry so much energy in them. At least they're normally safe for the vast majority.
Quote:
My daughters' middle school solves this problem simply: All students turn their mobile phones into the office for the day.
That's one way to handle it. On the other hand, my son's middle school encourages them to bring their phones/iPod Touch devices to school, and to class, and participate in class with them. They all get school-hosted wifi access too.
You can't stupid-proof everything. Flexible or not, hours of sitting on the phone and the force of sitting down will cause damage.
Well just as I thought.
Putting costly and fragile electronic devices in your back pocket and bloody well sitting on them, and shifting your weight on them, is NOT the way to take care of your device.
Not Apple's fault.
Don't sit on your devices, folks. This should be obvious, but a good chunk of the under-30 population of today is practically brain-dead.
It's true. And they always try to defend this stupid, stupid practice. These devices are thin, narrow, and long, and they are not compatible with tight clothes and the stresses induced by the body as you move about, sit, etc. I tried my 5th gen Touch in the front pocket of some pants that are tighter than I normally wear, and it was immediately obvious that the Touch was being stressed. So what did I do? I stopped carrying it that way under those conditions. Looser pants with deeper pockets are fine, but I'm still careful to ensure the long side of the Touch is oriented parallel to my leg when I sit down. I would never consider carrying it a back pocket and sitting down on it. That's just completely stupid. That said, I certainly hope that the phone bursting into flame when bent in half is an anomaly.
Fire doesn't necessarily need a flame.
I don't think it matters if she kept it in a dumb place or not.
Are you serious? A lit match shouldn’t ignite gas when thrown on it?
You're supporting my point, which was that if it truly did ignite merely by sitting with it in her back pocket, the "Oh, she sat on it, then there's nothing to see here, move along" response is far from what we *may* be looking at. It doesn't matter if she kept it in safely away in her purse if a heavy object falls on it and this is what happens .03% of the time.
Well, you aren't supposed to put batteries in the trash in the past few states I have lived in. They are supposed to be "recycled" and "disposed of properly" - But the real issue is that they are hazardous waste, with the ability to ignite. These are energy sources, and that energy must go somewhere if it isn't properly contained/restrained. Hence all the warning labels.
Sure, but it's not even about disposing of them properly, though I used the example of the danger of someone tossing one in a dumpster. It's about anything with equal force of the downward sit of a 13 year old girl on the phone and it catching fire instead of just breaking.
If you damage a Li-on battery, it's dangerous. It's not just Apple products.
It's quite simple, don't damage/bend/puncture your iPhone.
I think this is known as "Khardasianing a phone"
You're supporting my point, which was that if it truly did ignite merely by sitting with it in her back pocket, the "Oh, she sat on it, then there's nothing to see here, move along" response is far from what we *may* be looking at.
She quite plainly sat on it. I’m nowhere near supporting your point.
It isn't a case of it instantly catching fire. It is the break that causes the fire. That is trade off of our current battery technology. Aside from making every battery literally indestructible (not saying we shouldn't, just not sure the technology/trade offs are there yet), the end user has to take some responsibility and care of it.
And it isn't even the sitting on it that causes the issue. It is the damage done when sitting. Every battery has a DO NOT PUNCTURE warning on it, for this very reason.
She obviously put it there and forgot.
Hmm. Looking at the damage in the picture, are they sure it wasn't held in a flame, lighter, matches, bunsen burner, previous to being placed in the pocket? It's just that to me it looks like the scorching, smoke / soot marks on the screen, & buttons damaged just like the case, look like they could have been caused by an external source.
Not saying that something didn't happen in her pocket, but if it was previously damaged by her, or bullies, it's not the phone to blame exactly.
That Teslas are perfectly safe automobiles because lithium ion batteries will not catch fire.
Where did it break? It looks intact, other than the scorch marks.
She quite plainly sat on it. I’m nowhere near supporting your point.
No one's saying she didn't sit on it, of course she did. Again, if all it takes to ignite it is the weight of a 13 year old girl then the back pocket is not the problem and saying just keep it out of your back pocket is not the answer. The issue isn't about pockets and sitting. Besides, you're assuming that she broke the phone by sitting on it, which the story does not say. Just because she heard a pop when she sat doesn't mean she traumatized the battery with the force, and in fact that is never even implied. Looking at the picture the phone doesn't look like a phone that was crunched at all, just burned. If she didn't crunch it, her sitting with it did nothing wrong regardless of the fact that the battery popped when she did.
It isn't a case of it instantly catching fire. It is the break that causes the fire. That is trade off of our current battery technology. Aside from making every battery literally indestructible (not saying we shouldn't, just not sure the technology/trade offs are there yet), the end user has to take some responsibility and care of it.
Yes, absolutely true. But we can't talk about 13 year olds as if they're 21, and we're really talking about 10 year olds. If they're responsible enough to use a phone but not enough to understand what we're talking about here, what do we do? The phones aren't being sold on the basis of children's ability to follow that and really most adults don't follow it either (but that's another thing altogether).
And it isn't even the sitting on it that causes the issue. It is the damage done when sitting. Every battery has a DO NOT PUNCTURE warning on it, for this very reason.
Yes, but what 10 year old will tell you they've ever read a battery label? Especially one inside a phone that they never see?
To be sure, these kinds of accidents happen often enough with cell phones in general, and it's not an Apple issue, just a lithium-ion battery one, and none if that hinges on sitting with one in your back pocket. I'm just saying that the answer really has nothing to do with how she handled it if that's all it took, and I have no doubt it was going to happen with her particular phone eventually no matter what she did, and in the case of a 2 month old phone with all original parts and no modifications we need to stop pointing at her as the cause. When phone battery fires are reported (Google shows plenty of stories) they're generally never attributed to misuse. Why are people holding this girl responsible for it, as if she's the problem?
I don't know. Hearing a "POP" implies something broke. Repetitive stress fractures would not be easy to see.
No, not blaming the 10/13 year old directly. She is the responsibility of her parents. Improper use (conditions that cause failure) is the cause, not "the battery wasn't built correctly"
If I hand a 13 year old a BB gun and they shoot their 10 year old brother's eye out by standing three feet away from something, it ricochets off something, is it the gun manufacturers fault? How about the bullet manufacturer? The DPW who made the stop sign that was shot? But we are all jumping to conclusions that this family will sue Apple.
Back to the parents. As a parent of kids 9, 12, and 19, I make sure they know how to take care of things. The younger two have iPod touches. They know the rules. In a case. Not in pant pockets. You don't throw them, put stuff on them, etc. and they look as good as the day they bought them.
I love you.
Brings a tear to my eye, parents doing their jobs.
To be sure, these kinds of accidents happen often enough with cell phones in general, and it's not an Apple issue, just a lithium-ion battery one, and none if that hinges on sitting with one in your back pocket. I'm just saying that the answer really has nothing to do with how she handled it if that's all it took, and I have no doubt it was going to happen with her particular phone eventually no matter what she did, and in the case of a 2 month old phone with all original parts and no modifications we need to stop pointing at her as the cause. When phone battery fires are reported (Google shows plenty of stories) they're generally never attributed to misuse. Why are people holding this girl responsible for it, as if she's the problem?
All of the iPhone fires/injuries/deaths have been because of misuse or faulty accessories. Cite one instance otherwise.
This girl broke her phone by sitting on it. That's a FACT. And NO, it's not reasonable to expect a phone to stand up to anything and everything you do to it.