Did you see the bit about Samsung and HTC amounting to 40%?
They're desperate and they're trying to unload their phones.
What that has to do with Apple, I have no idea.
Apple is not desperate. Apple makes quality products and prices them accordingly. If anybody feels that Apple's products are too expensive, then buy something else.
They are the same type of devices and are taxed the same.
Where is your proof of this? As previously noted there are ways a vendor can have taxes reduced. How can you be so sure that Samsung or HTC don't have ways to reduce costs in certain countries that Apple doesn't and vice versa?
But honestly that's all beside the point. Products aren't priced based on what other countries charge they based on a given market. If you don't like a product and its price then don't buy it. It's really that fucking simple. If it's priced too high for a market it won't sell, if it's too low then they wills ell out too quickly. Supply and demand. The free market at work. It's not like Apple has some illegal monopoly it's abusing in The Czech Republic so if a vendor based in the EU wants to undercut a US company to increase sales and profits why would you be against this? Now if you have numbers for each market's tariffs and fees that you can present in an objective way I'd love to see them.
Just put that Android hatred bullcrap aside for a moment and look at the numbers. The competition is marked up 40%. Apple is marked up 80%. They are the same type of devices and are taxed the same.
Android hatred is not bullcrap, it's common sense. Everybody else is in the race to the bottom business. Apple doesn't participate in that losers game.
And if you believe that they are the same type of devices, then just go and buy an Android phone, problem solved.
What kind of a 'bottom option' starts at 800 dollars??
Really, just let that number sink in - it is INSANE.
I see your point. Apple can't do much about the European VAT which ranges from around 20% to even 25% depending on the country. We in the U.S.A. often forget the actual price of the phones we buy because of subsidies. Most people pay around $200 for a new phone but would balk at paying the true price of $650. Granted we actually do pay the real price of the phone with our monthly phone bills but that seems to lessen the shock. The price of smartphones today really aren't that different from around 7 or 8 years ago though. I remember my old HTC Touch Pro actually was $299 with a subsidy price and around $700 without a subsidy back in 2008. I think in the future we will begin to see a lot more carriers simply offer zero interest payment plans on phones and then once it is paid off your bill is reduced. T-Mobile and Sprint are doing this now and perhaps others. That might not be a good thing for Apple though since that might encourage people to upgrade far less often. They want people to upgrade every year or 2 not every 3 or 4 years.
Android hatred is not bullcrap, it's common sense. Everybody else is in the race to the bottom business. Apple doesn't participate in that losers game.
And if you believe that they are the same type of devices, then just go and buy an Android phone, problem solved.
Where is your proof of this? As previously noted there are ways a vendor can have taxes reduced. How can you be so sure that Samsung or HTC don't have ways to reduce costs in certain countries that Apple doesn't and vice versa?
But honestly that's all beside the point. Products aren't priced based on what other countries charge they based on a given market. If you don't like a product and its price then don't buy it. It's really that fucking simple. If it's priced too high for a market it won't sell, if it's too low then they wills ell out too quickly. Supply and demand. The free market at work. It's not like Apple has some illegal monopoly it's abusing in The Czech Republic so if a vendor based in the EU wants to undercut a US company to increase sales and profits why would you be against this? Now if you have numbers for each market's tariffs and fees that you can present in an objective way I'd love to see them.
Should I bother, really? You still came to that argument that I just shouldn't buy the phone anyway.
Should I bother, really? You still came to that argument that I just shouldn't buy the phone anyway.
I don't care what you buy, but you're the one who thinks it's too little capacity and too much money, so why would you even consider it?
All I want is for you to create a viable argument that includes the various costs that Apple's particular setup requires compared to a sale in the US. Until you've done that you can't even be reasonably sure of any of your claims. You can't even make a reasonable comment like, "Based on my findings there is a [v]% discrepancy between Apple's US and CZ price after accounting for a [w] month average exchange rate, [x] amount in import tariffs, [y] for additional regulation and testing certifications, and [z] 3rd-party vendor product markup fees."
That seems like a fair price for euro people, after you subtract the 22% VAT, other various fees and the conversion rate.
Most in Europe are 20 or 21%. It would work out to $463 without VAT. I personally wouldn't value an 8GB iPhone 5c at that price when you can get a 5s which is a far better phone with double the memory for $494 off contract here or even a iPhone 5c 16GB (also double the memory) off contract for $359 in the U.S.
Most in Europe are 20 or 21%. It would work out to $463 without VAT. I personally wouldn't value an 8GB iPhone 5c at that price when you can get a 5s which is a far better phone with double the memory for $494 off contract here or even a iPhone 5c 16GB (also double the memory) off contract for $359 in the U.S.
The price mentioned was Italian I believe, and I checked quick and it seems that VAT is 22% in Italy.
I personally wouldn't buy a 5c either, but that's besides the point I think.
An 8 GB (an 8 GB phone in 2014!) iPhone 5c costs 579 euros, which converts to 800 dollars.
A 16 GB iPhone 5s costs $649. Of course, you need to add sales tax to that. Let's make that 25% - surely enough to cover whatever taxes it gets and the added shipping costs from China to Europe. You get 811 dollars.
So yeah. It is an insane price, even for an Apple product.
Of course someone in the US isn't going to want to pay $800 USD for an iPhone 5C with 8GB.
Take a look at Norway. They also just got the iPhone 5C 8GB. The price is 4.490,00 Kroner. In that price is 899,00 MVA (TAX). So pre-tax it is $601.12 USD at the current rates. "If" they even sold that phone in the US, Apple would probably put it at $499 given the 4S sitting at $450. So there is likely about a $100 USD difference value in the actual price of the phone. Considering Apple's need to have the higher price to cover currency fluctuations and operational costs for that country and it isn't marked up all that much .
If you really want to freak out, go live in Norway for a while and you will soon realize that the iPhone markup is a bargain. Many things there cost over 2X what they cost in the US. A Big Mac value meal costs about $20.
On the bright side you could pay 400 kr ($66.92) more for the 16GB iPhone 5c.
When Norwegians visit the US, they have been known to leave with suitcases full of iDevices.
If you really want to freak out, go live in Norway for a while and you will soon realize that the iPhone markup is a bargain. Many things there cost over 2X what they cost in the US. A Big Mac value meal costs about $20.
I've been there before on vacation, and also to Sweden and to Denmark etc.
Yep, it's a pretty expensive place. I also noticed that Apple products are very popular there. I saw iPhones everywhere and plenty of iPads too, even though there's no official Apple store in that country.
I was staying in a cabin for a week there, and some guests came, and I had just gotten a new WIFI hotspot, and out of the approximately 10 people that were in the cabin, there were about 2 Android Phones, 5 iPhones, 5 iPads and 0 Android tablets. Luckily for the Android people, I allowed them to connect to my new hotspot. I must've been in a good mood that day. Or it more likely was just the alcohol affecting my judgement, as everybody drinks there. That's the national pastime.
Apple should really build a store in Norway, as it's a rich country, the people have money, and there are plenty of Apple customers there.
I see your point. Apple can't do much about the European VAT which ranges from around 20% to even 25% depending on the country. We in the U.S.A. often forget the actual price of the phones we buy because of subsidies. Most people pay around $200 for a new phone but would balk at paying the true price of $650. Granted we actually do pay the real price of the phone with our monthly phone bills but that seems to lessen the shock. The price of smartphones today really aren't that different from around 7 or 8 years ago though. I remember my old HTC Touch Pro actually was $299 with a subsidy price and around $700 without a subsidy back in 2008. I think in the future we will begin to see a lot more carriers simply offer zero interest payment plans on phones and then once it is paid off your bill is reduced. T-Mobile and Sprint are doing this now and perhaps others. That might not be a good thing for Apple though since that might encourage people to upgrade far less often. They want people to upgrade every year or 2 not every 3 or 4 years.
...yes, it's all about the TRUE cost of ownership no matter what country and no matter if it's with subsidy or not.
So to complete this discussion, anyone who is trying to compare prices should also compare resale value as well.
I want to laugh when I hear AT&T salespeople say that the Samsung and Apple are the same. Not withstanding the features/platform, salespeople should at least come clean about resale value.
I want to laugh when I hear AT&T salespeople say that the Samsung and Apple are the same. Not withstanding the features/platform, salespeople should at least come clean about resale value.
If we can't even get people to consider user experience differences I don't think we'll get people to consider resale value. Especially here in the US where people believe the cost of the handset is cheap because of the subsidization.
If we can't even get people to consider user experience differences I don't think we'll get people to consider resale value. Especially here in the US where people believe the cost of the handset is cheap because of the subsidization.
I don't think that iPhones are too expensive, but I do think that cell plans are a rip off.
Your error is thinking that the storage capacity is the only worthwhile factor in determining the value of smartphone. But to answer your question, no, I wouldn't pay $800 for an 8GB iPhone… because I'd spend $100 more for the 16GB model.
The 16GB 5c is a mere €50 more over here in The Netherlands. And yes, that includes tax. If the point he was trying to make is that the conversion rate is ridiculous that take a peek at the nMP: that costs €3049 over here which translates to $4049 (or something like that). Still, people, not him, forget the State Tax US prices are subject to.
Personally, if I were in market for that 5c I'd get the 16GB model for €599. Or better yet, wait 6 more months for a new iPhone. But that's just me.
Comments
Did you see the bit about Samsung and HTC amounting to 40%?
They're desperate and they're trying to unload their phones.
What that has to do with Apple, I have no idea.
Apple is not desperate. Apple makes quality products and prices them accordingly. If anybody feels that Apple's products are too expensive, then buy something else.
Where is your proof of this? As previously noted there are ways a vendor can have taxes reduced. How can you be so sure that Samsung or HTC don't have ways to reduce costs in certain countries that Apple doesn't and vice versa?
But honestly that's all beside the point. Products aren't priced based on what other countries charge they based on a given market. If you don't like a product and its price then don't buy it. It's really that fucking simple. If it's priced too high for a market it won't sell, if it's too low then they wills ell out too quickly. Supply and demand. The free market at work. It's not like Apple has some illegal monopoly it's abusing in The Czech Republic so if a vendor based in the EU wants to undercut a US company to increase sales and profits why would you be against this? Now if you have numbers for each market's tariffs and fees that you can present in an objective way I'd love to see them.
Just put that Android hatred bullcrap aside for a moment and look at the numbers. The competition is marked up 40%. Apple is marked up 80%. They are the same type of devices and are taxed the same.
Android hatred is not bullcrap, it's common sense. Everybody else is in the race to the bottom business. Apple doesn't participate in that losers game.
And if you believe that they are the same type of devices, then just go and buy an Android phone, problem solved.
Maybe just don’t be completely and utterly incorrect, then? I guess that’s your next step.
What kind of a 'bottom option' starts at 800 dollars??
Really, just let that number sink in - it is INSANE.
I see your point. Apple can't do much about the European VAT which ranges from around 20% to even 25% depending on the country. We in the U.S.A. often forget the actual price of the phones we buy because of subsidies. Most people pay around $200 for a new phone but would balk at paying the true price of $650. Granted we actually do pay the real price of the phone with our monthly phone bills but that seems to lessen the shock. The price of smartphones today really aren't that different from around 7 or 8 years ago though. I remember my old HTC Touch Pro actually was $299 with a subsidy price and around $700 without a subsidy back in 2008. I think in the future we will begin to see a lot more carriers simply offer zero interest payment plans on phones and then once it is paid off your bill is reduced. T-Mobile and Sprint are doing this now and perhaps others. That might not be a good thing for Apple though since that might encourage people to upgrade far less often. They want people to upgrade every year or 2 not every 3 or 4 years.
Maybe just don’t be completely and utterly incorrect, then? I guess that’s your next step.
Of course. Would the step after that be buying 47 $800 iPhones?
Android hatred is not bullcrap, it's common sense. Everybody else is in the race to the bottom business. Apple doesn't participate in that losers game.
And if you believe that they are the same type of devices, then just go and buy an Android phone, problem solved.
shhh
shhh
listen
listen to me
they are the same
as far as tax law is concerned
they are smartphones
they are taxed the same way
this is not about your android opinions
it's about tax
Where is your proof of this? As previously noted there are ways a vendor can have taxes reduced. How can you be so sure that Samsung or HTC don't have ways to reduce costs in certain countries that Apple doesn't and vice versa?
But honestly that's all beside the point. Products aren't priced based on what other countries charge they based on a given market. If you don't like a product and its price then don't buy it. It's really that fucking simple. If it's priced too high for a market it won't sell, if it's too low then they wills ell out too quickly. Supply and demand. The free market at work. It's not like Apple has some illegal monopoly it's abusing in The Czech Republic so if a vendor based in the EU wants to undercut a US company to increase sales and profits why would you be against this? Now if you have numbers for each market's tariffs and fees that you can present in an objective way I'd love to see them.
Should I bother, really? You still came to that argument that I just shouldn't buy the phone anyway.
So your claiming that all countries have a single tax with no complex structure? That's the first time I've ever heard of such a thing.
Of course. Would the step after that be buying 47 $800 iPhones?
That seems like a fair price for euro people, after you subtract the 22% VAT, other various fees and the conversion rate.
I don't care what you buy, but you're the one who thinks it's too little capacity and too much money, so why would you even consider it?
All I want is for you to create a viable argument that includes the various costs that Apple's particular setup requires compared to a sale in the US. Until you've done that you can't even be reasonably sure of any of your claims. You can't even make a reasonable comment like, "Based on my findings there is a [v]% discrepancy between Apple's US and CZ price after accounting for a [w] month average exchange rate, [x] amount in import tariffs, [y] for additional regulation and testing certifications, and [z] 3rd-party vendor product markup fees."
That seems like a fair price for euro people, after you subtract the 22% VAT, other various fees and the conversion rate.
Most in Europe are 20 or 21%. It would work out to $463 without VAT. I personally wouldn't value an 8GB iPhone 5c at that price when you can get a 5s which is a far better phone with double the memory for $494 off contract here or even a iPhone 5c 16GB (also double the memory) off contract for $359 in the U.S.
Most in Europe are 20 or 21%. It would work out to $463 without VAT. I personally wouldn't value an 8GB iPhone 5c at that price when you can get a 5s which is a far better phone with double the memory for $494 off contract here or even a iPhone 5c 16GB (also double the memory) off contract for $359 in the U.S.
The price mentioned was Italian I believe, and I checked quick and it seems that VAT is 22% in Italy.
I personally wouldn't buy a 5c either, but that's besides the point I think.
Unsubsidized prices and they include tax.
An 8 GB (an 8 GB phone in 2014!) iPhone 5c costs 579 euros, which converts to 800 dollars.
A 16 GB iPhone 5s costs $649. Of course, you need to add sales tax to that. Let's make that 25% - surely enough to cover whatever taxes it gets and the added shipping costs from China to Europe. You get 811 dollars.
So yeah. It is an insane price, even for an Apple product.
Of course someone in the US isn't going to want to pay $800 USD for an iPhone 5C with 8GB.
Take a look at Norway. They also just got the iPhone 5C 8GB. The price is 4.490,00 Kroner. In that price is 899,00 MVA (TAX). So pre-tax it is $601.12 USD at the current rates. "If" they even sold that phone in the US, Apple would probably put it at $499 given the 4S sitting at $450. So there is likely about a $100 USD difference value in the actual price of the phone. Considering Apple's need to have the higher price to cover currency fluctuations and operational costs for that country and it isn't marked up all that much .
If you really want to freak out, go live in Norway for a while and you will soon realize that the iPhone markup is a bargain. Many things there cost over 2X what they cost in the US. A Big Mac value meal costs about $20.
On the bright side you could pay 400 kr ($66.92) more for the 16GB iPhone 5c.
When Norwegians visit the US, they have been known to leave with suitcases full of iDevices.
The "average user" for an 8gb iphone is your average blue haired facebooker.
If you really want to freak out, go live in Norway for a while and you will soon realize that the iPhone markup is a bargain. Many things there cost over 2X what they cost in the US. A Big Mac value meal costs about $20.
I've been there before on vacation, and also to Sweden and to Denmark etc.
Yep, it's a pretty expensive place. I also noticed that Apple products are very popular there. I saw iPhones everywhere and plenty of iPads too, even though there's no official Apple store in that country.
I was staying in a cabin for a week there, and some guests came, and I had just gotten a new WIFI hotspot, and out of the approximately 10 people that were in the cabin, there were about 2 Android Phones, 5 iPhones, 5 iPads and 0 Android tablets. Luckily for the Android people, I allowed them to connect to my new hotspot. I must've been in a good mood that day. Or it more likely was just the alcohol affecting my judgement, as everybody drinks there. That's the national pastime.
Apple should really build a store in Norway, as it's a rich country, the people have money, and there are plenty of Apple customers there.
I see your point. Apple can't do much about the European VAT which ranges from around 20% to even 25% depending on the country. We in the U.S.A. often forget the actual price of the phones we buy because of subsidies. Most people pay around $200 for a new phone but would balk at paying the true price of $650. Granted we actually do pay the real price of the phone with our monthly phone bills but that seems to lessen the shock. The price of smartphones today really aren't that different from around 7 or 8 years ago though. I remember my old HTC Touch Pro actually was $299 with a subsidy price and around $700 without a subsidy back in 2008. I think in the future we will begin to see a lot more carriers simply offer zero interest payment plans on phones and then once it is paid off your bill is reduced. T-Mobile and Sprint are doing this now and perhaps others. That might not be a good thing for Apple though since that might encourage people to upgrade far less often. They want people to upgrade every year or 2 not every 3 or 4 years.
...yes, it's all about the TRUE cost of ownership no matter what country and no matter if it's with subsidy or not.
So to complete this discussion, anyone who is trying to compare prices should also compare resale value as well.
I want to laugh when I hear AT&T salespeople say that the Samsung and Apple are the same. Not withstanding the features/platform, salespeople should at least come clean about resale value.
If we can't even get people to consider user experience differences I don't think we'll get people to consider resale value. Especially here in the US where people believe the cost of the handset is cheap because of the subsidization.
If we can't even get people to consider user experience differences I don't think we'll get people to consider resale value. Especially here in the US where people believe the cost of the handset is cheap because of the subsidization.
I don't think that iPhones are too expensive, but I do think that cell plans are a rip off.
The 16GB 5c is a mere €50 more over here in The Netherlands. And yes, that includes tax. If the point he was trying to make is that the conversion rate is ridiculous that take a peek at the nMP: that costs €3049 over here which translates to $4049 (or something like that). Still, people, not him, forget the State Tax US prices are subject to.
Personally, if I were in market for that 5c I'd get the 16GB model for €599. Or better yet, wait 6 more months for a new iPhone. But that's just me.