Now that is a reasonable response to not liking a band or genre, but claiming it's not real because you don't like it is absurdity.
I never said RAM wasn't music, it was just something that I am not gravitated towards. And?
I didn't claim rap wasn't music because I didn't like it. I claim it's not real music because there are no melody lines. If you look up the term MUSIC, melody is a VERY important factor in what MUSIC is. to me, on a personal level, music is played by musicians that learn how to play a musical instrument. If you study music and ask some world class musicians like I have, they will explain that there are good forms of music and bad forms of music. We have to decide what's good and what's bad and remove the bad influences form our lives and try to listen to good music.
There are studies that have been done as to the effects of music on people from a psychological perspective and ability to learn math and other things with greater ease. Classical and jazz (more importantly improvisational jazz) are VERY good from a psychological perspective. The other aspect of rap music is the entire culture that goes along with it. How many articulate, well spoken people are there in the rap community that speak fluent english, that have a firm grasp of how to play musical instruments and can actually play other forms of music? Not many. Look at the types of people that end up not finishing high school, go in/out of jail, end up in some gang related issue. Are they prominently jazz or classical musicians? Hardly. I think Rap kind of takes the prize in this category hands down. k It's not just that I don't like rap music, I just don't consider it a REAL form of music that should be put on a pedestal, considered REAL music, and should be paid any attention. Look at Queen Latifah. When I first saw her, I thought she was a joke. But, as she grew up and matured, she got away from rap, changed her appearance to be more respectable and got rid of that ghetto mentality and become a decent jazz singer and she speaks like you would never have thought she was ever involved with rap music. Well, guess what, she's not a rapper anymore and I'm sure deep down she wishes she made it as a jazz singer first instead of rap. But she didn't. She was young, naive and immature during her early years, but I respect the fact that she got out of that industry and can carry herself similar to how respected jazz musicians and singers behave. With some freaking dignity. Rap to me is for the unintelligent, illiterate, lazy, and mindless crap that somehow got some credibility from the music industry primarily because of how much money they were making. There originally weren't taken seriously and it was only due to the money. NOTHING ELSE.
I don't particularly care for lots of bands, etc. But that's a personal preference. Rap is not just a personal preference that I'm against. I'm against the entire culture and I can tell you there are a LOT of educated blacks that hate rap culture just as much as I do. Only they aren't as vocal about it for fear of getting whacked.
I never said RAM wasn't music, it was just something that I am not gravitated towards. And?
I didn't claim rap wasn't music because I didn't like it. I claim it's not real music because there are no melody lines. If you look up the term MUSIC, melody is a VERY important factor in what MUSIC is. to me, on a personal level, music is played by musicians that learn how to play a musical instrument. If you study music and ask some world class musicians like I have, they will explain that there are good forms of music and bad forms of music. We have to decide what's good and what's bad and remove the bad influences form our lives and try to listen to good music.
There are studies that have been done as to the effects of music on people from a psychological perspective and ability to learn math and other things with greater ease. Classical and jazz (more importantly improvisational jazz) are VERY good from a psychological perspective. The other aspect of rap music is the entire culture that goes along with it. How many articulate, well spoken people are there in the rap community that speak fluent english, that have a firm grasp of how to play musical instruments and can actually play other forms of music? Not many. Look at the types of people that end up not finishing high school, go in/out of jail, end up in some gang related issue. Are they prominently jazz or classical musicians? Hardly. I think Rap kind of takes the prize in this category hands down. k It's not just that I don't like rap music, I just don't consider it a REAL form of music that should be put on a pedestal, considered REAL music, and should be paid any attention. Look at Queen Latifah. When I first saw her, I thought she was a joke. But, as she grew up and matured, she got away from rap, changed her appearance to be more respectable and got rid of that ghetto mentality and become a decent jazz singer and she speaks like you would never have thought she was ever involved with rap music. Well, guess what, she's not a rapper anymore and I'm sure deep down she wishes she made it as a jazz singer first instead of rap. But she didn't. She was young, naive and immature during her early years, but I respect the fact that she got out of that industry and can carry herself similar to how respected jazz musicians and singers behave. With some freaking dignity. Rap to me is for the unintelligent, illiterate, lazy, and mindless crap that somehow got some credibility from the music industry primarily because of how much money they were making. There originally weren't taken seriously and it was only due to the money. NOTHING ELSE.
I don't particularly care for lots of bands, etc. But that's a personal preference. Rap is not just a personal preference that I'm against. I'm against the entire culture and I can tell you there are a LOT of educated blacks that hate rap culture just as much as I do. Only they aren't as vocal about it for fear of getting whacked.
Really? Then my mistaken because I thought you had been shown rap music with "a sequence of single notes that is musically satisfying" and still say it's not music because you don't like it.
If you think that's some form of music to be taken seriously on any level, then you must have a catalog of nothing but crap in your music collection. I didn't even bother watching the video because like most of your other postings, it's kind of a waste of my time.
If that's music to you, then you must think the Monkees was a real group of talented musicians and that Justin Bieber can actually sing well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
Really? Then my mistaken because I thought you had been shown rap music with "a sequence of single notes that is musically satisfying" and still say it's not music because you don't like it.
No you really don't read very well do you? I haven't been shown that rap music has a sequence of single notes that is musically satisfying. There aren't much in the way of a melody line. I think it's not really music. it's generally not performed by musicians, therefor how can it be music? rapping is talking, it's not singing words with a melody line.
The jazz guy wasn't rapping, he was singing a jazz influenced melody line with vulgar lyrics to mock the rap industry and it wasn't anything that should be take as serious music. The others, same thing. nothing but amateur musicians that aren't anything to take SERIOUSLY.
Again, I will ask you the same question for which I have not seen an answer. Are you a musician? If not, then you have really very little knowledge of the subject and you really have very little to draw from in order to make a conclusion. I don't like it, not because it isn't music, i see nothing positive about the music and the culture it breeds. PERIOD. END OF STORY and move on. Please. i don't like your manipulation tactics trying to put words in my mouth. You seem to do that often. Sorry, but so far, you haven't proven your side of the argument.
There are singers that might rap during a portion of a regular pop song, but that's not generally considered RAP MUSIC. That's considered rapping in a pop song. Rapping can be done a little more positive but generally has to be done with REAL musicians in a song where there is some form of melody lines. But I see those as more gimmicky and something that goes in/out of style pretty quickly. I think the Black Crowes has a song where the singer was kind of rapping for one of their hit songs, but it wasn't considered a RAP song or a RAP music hit song. But rap music in general doesn't have much in the way of musicians playing or with any melody lines. If you want to ac t immature about it, go right ahead. I don't get much music in my personal catalog that has much immature mentality associated with it. I get rid of it the second I feel it's not something to take seriously.
The other thing you fail to realize is that during the last 40 years or so playing music, I've played with people performing a WIDE variety of music. I've hung around a LOT of different people from different cultures, different parts of the world and different styles music to not only get educated as to the different forms of music and to be able to play with as much proficiency as someone that grew up around that style of music. I've played with a LOT of musicians that played in the old school funk, R&B, reggae, south african afropop, country, jazz, rock, latin, blues, the list goes on. In all of my travels the musicians that are in THESE types of genres do NOT like that rap culture that Dr. Dre and his equals do. I've hung around a rapper that did a Jamaican form of rapping, but it was TOTALLY different. He actually did it with some melody which was REALLY unique and he was really good at it and it worked for what he did. But he didtn't swear, he didn't go down to the level that these other rappers do and his was done with music played by musicians,not some stupid sequenced beat that is annoying to listen to. NONE of the people I ever socialized with playing music would have this attitude where they call each other niggas, bitches, ho's, etc. NONE of them. Some of these musicians were very articulate, some weren't because they just didn't grow up being able to continue their education, but at least they tried as best as they could to talk with some degree of intelligence. I would say that most of them HATE the rap culture. I mean HATE It. It's not just the music, it the whole culture behind it. So I can't see why ANYONE with any level of intelligence would promote it or even THINK it was positive for society. I know one musician/producer that produced some rap artists, but he was trying to do it with a more R&B approach rather than the typical RAP approach. And this producer has played and produced some pretty famous people through the years, so i know there might have been other connections made. I was asked to do some session work for his R&B rap artiss, but I declined because i just couldn't be part of any music where I just didn't agree with the lyrics and the culture behind it. It was a shame because I played old school R&B/Funk with this person and he wanted to do his own projects doing that instead of going down the rap direction, but we needed funding to pursue that and he didn't have that together, so he went and produced R&B rap artists instead.
[quote name="drblank" url="/t/179472/rumor-beats-jimmy-iovine-dr-dre-could-take-the-stage-at-apples-wwdc/120#post_2532831"]No you really don't read very well do you? I haven't been shown that rap music has a sequence of single notes that is musically satisfying.There aren't much in the way of a melody line. I think it's not really music. it's generally not performed by musicians, therefor how can it be music? rapping is talking, it's not singing words with a melody line. [/QUOTE]
You have been shown but you're either being purposely obtuse or you really don't know shit about music which is why you are, as I correctly stated, don't think that composed vocals and/or instrumental sounds combined in such a way as to produce beauty of form, harmony, and expression of emotion is music.
Does Dr. Dre know how to read music as a producer? He should. Most of the REAL legendary producers like George Martin, Quincy Jones, and others that have produced legendary classic albums in pop music DEFINITELY know how to read music and those guys CAN play instruments and they know many different styles of music. I look up to them, but Dr. Dre I dismiss as some scam artist that just happened to market his crap to ignorant children.
It really just sounds like you don't like hip hop or rap and just dismiss the entire thing with a lot of musical snobbery. Music is more than your rigid guidelines and rules. It's an expression, sometimes a story. Many of the rap music people dismiss are full of emotion, meaning and poetry, with core elements of rhythm, melody and timing. Much more so than some other drivel that people normally associate as popular music.
And frankly, it doesn't even sound like you know much about Dr. Dre at all but dismiss him as a scam artist.
Think about it, to gain ground and take success in the music area to a higher level who would you need? A successful artist and and successful music executive on the team.
You have been shown but you're either being purposely obtuse or you really don't know shit about music which is why you are, as I correctly stated, don't think that composed vocals and/or instrumental sounds combined in such a way as to produce beauty of form, harmony, and expression of emotion is music.
Get off your ego trip. I know a LOT more about music than you can possibly fathom. You aren't a musician that has played a variety of style of music on any professional level. Music doesn't always have to have vocals to be music. Most classical music doesn't have vocals. music can produce different types of moods, there is experimental forms of music, but it's all performed by musicians. Rap is predominately not performed by musicians.
"Don't think that composed vocals and/or instrumental sounds combined in such a way as to produce beauty of form, harmony and expression of emotion is music"? What are you talking about. Then since you aren't a musician, what do you THINK music is? Define music, or define a form of music that's legitimate and to be taken seriously?
Again, I must reiterate, you aren't a musician, so what ever you THINK doesn't really hold much validity unless you can get a lot of musicians to agree with you. Again, i have stated there are good and bad forms of music or what people THINK is music. Who decides that? We as individuals ultimately decide. You can think rap music is music all day long, but i will never agree with that nor will i agree that it's a good form of music that should be promoted, bought, sold, and performed without the use of trained (self taught or formally trained) musicians. You can't have music without musicians. That's who performs music. Non-musicians can't perform music very well, which is why they aren't considered musicians. to my knowledge rapping isn't taught in music conservatories that I know. Professional vocal instructors don't normally teach people how to rap. Rapping is more of street music. There isn't much, if any musical theory ?behind rap music. There's no chord progressions that are in rap music, there are no scales in rap music that are used, so there really isn't much musicianship other than understanding rhythm and talking in a rhymic fashion, but without those melody lines, there isn't much for the listener to hang on to from a melodic standpoint. And the culture that it breeds is pretty much dumbed to the point where it breeds stupidity. Again, you listen to a lot of rap music and have Dr. Dre's CDs in your collection and hang around that crowd of people that listen to rap music?
There have been producers like Quincy Jones that experimented with jazz and putting rap to it and it failed. It didn't catch on at all. That's why it's rarely done by anyone of significance in the jazz world. It was more of a gimmick. They do it sometimes in rock like what Run DMC did with that Aerosmith song, it was catchy and sold, but it was done once and it was more of a gimmick. I don't see Steven Tyler calling Run DMC or any of those other idiots doing entire records with rap artists and taking them on the road, do you? NO, it was more of a gimmick. It worked for a little while, but it's not seen as anything that serious other than it made some money and was famous for a little while, but it pretty much died shortly thereafter and I don't think that many people actually pull that out and replay it anywhere. It's been a while since i've heard it, but it got old REAL fast. But it wasn't really a rap song, it was rappers rapping to a rock song. Even Tyler doesn't sing like that on most of his material.
I know a LOT more about music than you can possibly fathom.
You're clearly not demonstrating that here. All you're doing is saying how you much more you know whilst showing your ignorance.
You aren't a musician that has played a variety of style of music on any professional level.
Sure, you can think that.
Music doesn't always have to have vocals to be music.
And you have claims that the music Dre has produced isn't real music if there is rapping on it as if that nullifies that the rest of the song's legitimacy. Oh wait, you claims that if there is minimal rapping on a pop song it can still be considered music. How fucking gracious of you. :rolleyes:
Most classical music doesn't have vocals.
No shit yet you're the one that has said rap music isn't music.
music can produce different types of moods
The depth of your knowledge is truly awe-inspiring¡
Rap is predominately not performed by musicians.
More BS.
"Don't think that composed vocals and/or instrumental sounds combined in such a way as to produce beauty of form, harmony and expression of emotion is music"? What are you talking about. Then since you aren't a musician, what do you THINK music is? Define music, or define a form of music that's legitimate and to be taken seriously?
You can't be fucking serious?! You don't even know the definition of music when it's in front of you.
music |?myo?ozik| noun
1 vocal or instrumental sounds (or both) combined in such a way as to produce beauty of form, harmony, and expression of emotion.
That's the New Oxford American Dictionary, 3rd Edition
Again, I must reiterate, you aren't a musician, so what ever you THINK doesn't really hold much validity unless you can get a lot of musicians to agree with you.
1) You keep saying this. Has wishful thinking ever really worked out for you in the past?
2) I suppose anyone who hasn't written a novel can't determine what a novel is either.
Again, i have stated there are good and bad forms of music or what people THINK is music. Who decides that? We as individuals ultimately decide. You can think rap music is music all day long, but i will never agree with that nor will i agree that it's a good form of music that should be promoted, bought, sold, and performed without the use of trained (self taught or formally trained) musicians. You can't have music without musicians. That's who performs music. Non-musicians can't perform music very well, which is why they aren't considered musicians. to my knowledge rapping isn't taught in music conservatories that I know. Professional vocal instructors don't normally teach people how to rap. Rapping is more of street music. There isn't much, if any musical theory ?<span style="line-height:22px;">behind rap music. There's no chord </span>
progressions<span style="line-height:22px;"> that are in rap music, there are no scales in rap music that are used, so there really isn't </span>
much musicianship other than understanding rhythm and talking in a rhymic fashion, but without those melody lines, there isn't much for the listener to hang on to from a melodic standpoint. And the culture that it breeds is pretty much dumbed to the point where it breeds stupidity. Again, you listen to a lot of rap music and have Dr. Dre's CDs in your collection and hang around that crowd of people that listen to rap music?
It's fine that you don't like it (no one claims that is wrong) but your comment just sounds condescending and douchie when you claim that rap music isn't music then recite specious and supercilious ideologies that are only appear to be propping up your insecurities about music and have mostly died out a long time ago. You're just as bad as the people that say street art isn't art of that Picasco wasn't a good painter.
Which is it? Is it a huge factor or not a huge factor? Or did you just change your mind very quickly, so your opinion is that it is indeed now a huge factor, although previously you thought that it wasn't a huge factor?
I actually understand exactly what he's saying. And it isn't any of what you supposed he might mean. The point is, it's both. It SHOUDN'T be a huge factor, it might not seem to some as a huge factor, I mean, they've still got great products and people love them. But at the same time, it really is a huge factor, because Steve's role in selling the company and its products cannot be underestimated.
Personally, while I think it is obvious that Cook isn't a natural like Steve was, he is very competent (which Balmer wasn't) and he relies on others to capture the cool that Steve had himself. Craig Federigi (sp?) is loaded with personality. So is eddy cue. Schiller is a loveable teddy bear. Ive is pure cool, but sits behind the camera only. Which is too bad.
Greg.
So it is a huge factor, not both. Thanks for clarifying.
So now you want rapping with a serious message and has members playing traditional instruments? Here ya go.
[music video]
If he want's a serious message I have a shitload of Tupac videos to post, but he's now been given rap with a serious message, rap with no swearing, and rap with amazing harmonies but it's still not music to him. It's clear he's a rappist.
You're clearly not demonstrating that here. All you're doing is saying how you much more you know whilst showing your ignorance.
Sure, you can think that.
And you have claims that the music Dre has produced isn't real music if there is rapping on it as if that nullifies that the rest of the song's legitimacy. Oh wait, you claims that if there is minimal rapping on a pop song it can still be considered music. How fucking gracious of you.
No shit yet you're the one that has said rap music isn't music.
The depth of your knowledge is truly awe-inspiring¡
More BS.
You can't be fucking serious?! You don't even know the definition of music when it's in front of you.
music |?myo?ozik|
noun
1 vocal or instrumental sounds (or both) combined in such a way as to produce beauty of form, harmony, and expression of emotion.
That's the New Oxford American Dictionary, 3rd Edition
1) You keep saying this. Has wishful thinking ever really worked out for you in the past?
2) I suppose anyone who hasn't written a novel can't determine what a novel is either.
It's fine that you don't like it (no one claims that is wrong) but your comment just sounds condescending and douchie when you claim that rap music isn't music then recite specious and supercilious ideologies that are only appear to be propping up your insecurities about music and have mostly died out a long time ago. You're just as bad as the people that say street art isn't art of that Picasco wasn't a good painter.
Rap music doesn't have harmony. It's definitely not a form of beauty either. but you are telling me NOT to think that.
No, I don't consider it music because it doesn't have harmony and no real melody.
Well, to the parents of a child that does some finger painting, they think its the most beautiful thing in the world and consider it art, but I don't see many children's paintings making it to the Museum of Modern Art and well respected people in the art community thinking that a little kids fingerprinting is a work of art unless that person turns out to eventually be a huge artist later in life and they drag those finger paintings as historical art during their children's years. I happen to have some drawings in my possession that were created by a now famous artist. The drawings were done very early in their career and were never shown publicly and are not considered major works of art, but still retain value in terms of historical value because the painter is VERY famous and his REAL paintings go for millions of dollars, so they do have some inherent value, but they aren't that great in terms of works of art. Yeah, what experts think is art can be debatable. I grew up around a pretty famous and reputable art gallery owner that was responsible for bringing some very prolific artists to a high level of stature and they are considered a big deal in the art world, and they would show my parents some up and coming artist some paintings that I had a difficult time thinking it was art. The paintings I'm referring to were two identical sized canvases each painted a solid color. One was red and other was green and there were no brush strokes and it looked like someone just chose some rather ugly colors, took out a roller and within 2 minutes painted each canvas a solid color. I was a kid at the time and I thought anyone could do that and if my parents wanted them, then I could do it a LOT cheaper and instead of charing thousands of dollars, I do it for half the cost. Obviously, they didn't take me up on the offer, but I think they retuned them back to the gallery. But, MOST artists that are considered of some significance TYPICALLY have some degree of training. Yeah, I know there are street artists, but they generally don't hold that much value in the art world. It may be street art, but when was the last time Christies sold some street art? It generally doesn't hold much value or go up in value unless the artist becomes really famous somehow and even then, its debatable on the value of it from the art world perspective. VERY few POP artists actually really make it in the art world with much credibility. Andy Warhol is generally the most famous, but a lot of pop artists generally don't do as well unless they have some serious art training. The street guys don't typically end up becoming famous and valuable.
How many street artists actually get to become famous and their art shown at major museums around the world? Not many if any.
Picasso had certain periods where I liked his work and some of his periods I didn't. he did go through a lot of phases like a lot of artists go through. That's why some works are more valuable than others. Some artists paint in the style of certain periods of some of the famous artists, but they generally aren't considered as major works. The artist has to basically develop a stye that is considered unique and different than anyone else that's catches the attention of the major art critics from different parts of the world. That's why these street artists generally aren't taken as seriously. is it art? Yeah, anything of that nature can be seen as art, but it's not something that serious and of value to anyone that has a serious background in that industry. Do I always agree with the top art critics? No. What they think is worthy and valuable, I could give a rip. I find the Mona Lisa something I wouldn't want in my house as I find it rather not pleasant to look at. I don't like that style of art, but plant of people do. But coming from a standpoint that I've studied music and have played professionally at some level, I think I can easily say that rap music isn't really anything serious that I really don't consider as a REAL form of music. It's more gimmicks being marketed as music, when it really isn't. The pop world calls a LOT of things music that I really don't take seriously at all. Speed metal is another messed up form of so-called music. It lacks any form of blues influences which is where rock music came from, but there isn't anything oriented to blues in speed metal. Pop music has had it's share of BS over the years. What they call R&B has very little resemblance to the original forms of R&B. It's kind of stupid and maybe that's why the music industry is hurting. Kids growing up aren't studying real forms of music, they just study their favorite pop artist and basically try to mimic them, but they have no clue on music theory. Kind of like Justin Bieber. He was great at mimicking a singer, but he really doesn't have the training and background that is required to be a legitimate singer. Why do you think they have use AutoTune and Melodyne pitch correction on every one of his recordings? Because he can't freaking sing on pitch. He made a big deal about Stevie Wonder wanting to work with him, so where is that song anyway? I think Stevie Wonder realized that the kid really can't sing without pitch correction and Stevie Wonder doesn't use pitch correction because he knows how to sing. The pop music industry is great at marketing BS. Remember the Monkees? They weren't really a REAL group of musicians, heck I think only one of them KIND of sang and another kind of played musical instrument, but their albums for most part were written by professional songwriters and the music was played by session players, but kids were led to believe it was a REAL group. Ah, the BS the pop music industry plays to make a buck. It's kind of disgusting what they sometimes promote and call music. How about Devo? Remember them? I thought they were more comical than anything. Was it music? Well, kinda sorta. You can think rap music is music, but you probably wouldn't be seen as someone to take seriously, at least not in my book and that of other musicians.
Now that is a reasonable response to not liking a band or genre, but claiming it's not real because you don't like it is absurdity.
I never said RAM wasn't music, it was just something that I am not gravitated towards. And?
I didn't claim rap wasn't music because I didn't like it. I claim it's not real music because there are no melody lines. If you look up the term MUSIC, melody is a VERY important factor in what MUSIC is. to me, on a personal level, music is played by musicians that learn how to play a musical instrument. If you study music and ask some world class musicians like I have, they will explain that there are good forms of music and bad forms of music. We have to decide what's good and what's bad and remove the bad influences form our lives and try to listen to good music.
There are studies that have been done as to the effects of music on people from a psychological perspective and ability to learn math and other things with greater ease. Classical and jazz (more importantly improvisational jazz) are VERY good from a psychological perspective. The other aspect of rap music is the entire culture that goes along with it. How many articulate, well spoken people are there in the rap community that speak fluent english, that have a firm grasp of how to play musical instruments and can actually play other forms of music? Not many. Look at the types of people that end up not finishing high school, go in/out of jail, end up in some gang related issue. Are they prominently jazz or classical musicians? Hardly. I think Rap kind of takes the prize in this category hands down. k It's not just that I don't like rap music, I just don't consider it a REAL form of music that should be put on a pedestal, considered REAL music, and should be paid any attention. Look at Queen Latifah. When I first saw her, I thought she was a joke. But, as she grew up and matured, she got away from rap, changed her appearance to be more respectable and got rid of that ghetto mentality and become a decent jazz singer and she speaks like you would never have thought she was ever involved with rap music. Well, guess what, she's not a rapper anymore and I'm sure deep down she wishes she made it as a jazz singer first instead of rap. But she didn't. She was young, naive and immature during her early years, but I respect the fact that she got out of that industry and can carry herself similar to how respected jazz musicians and singers behave. With some freaking dignity. Rap to me is for the unintelligent, illiterate, lazy, and mindless crap that somehow got some credibility from the music industry primarily because of how much money they were making. There originally weren't taken seriously and it was only due to the money. NOTHING ELSE.
I don't particularly care for lots of bands, etc. But that's a personal preference. Rap is not just a personal preference that I'm against. I'm against the entire culture and I can tell you there are a LOT of educated blacks that hate rap culture just as much as I do. Only they aren't as vocal about it for fear of getting whacked.
The biggest problem I see is with Apple bringing in Dr. Dre and his group of idiots that post vulgar obscenities calling each other niggers, etc. while they are ripping drunk. I can see this sort of behavior backfiring on Apple in a major way if Dr. Dre is to be part of Apple. I can see all kinds of people from the educational market and other advocacy groups raising a big stink which could turn into a lot of negative publicity for Apple if Dr. Dre and his buddies continue that behavior. That won't fly with a lot of people. It certainly is going to fuel a hell of a lot of bad publicity that's for sure.
What do you think Apple would do if an employee of Apple posted some videos of themselves getting ripping drunk yelling obscenities such as they are and this was someone in upper management that's known that they are an employee of Apple? Apple would get that content pulled as fast as possible and that person would be fired as quickly as possible. So THINK a?bout the potential nightmare Apple PR has with Dr. Dre and he loser drunk friends? Rap or no rap. Dr. Dre's buddies are bad for business. Apple would loss a LOT of credibility within certain circles, so I see Dr. Dre a HUGE liability if he is to work for Apple on ANY level.
When these famous celebrities screw up in public, they lose their endorsements.
The biggest problem I see is with Apple bringing in Dr. Dre and his group of idiots that post vulgar obscenities calling each other niggers, etc. while they are ripping drunk.
Ah, your true motivations are finally coming out. Of course, you'll then say, "But I hate wigger rappers, too, so I can't be racist." Good luck with that¡
Comments
Now that is a reasonable response to not liking a band or genre, but claiming it's not real because you don't like it is absurdity.
I never said RAM wasn't music, it was just something that I am not gravitated towards. And?
I didn't claim rap wasn't music because I didn't like it. I claim it's not real music because there are no melody lines. If you look up the term MUSIC, melody is a VERY important factor in what MUSIC is. to me, on a personal level, music is played by musicians that learn how to play a musical instrument. If you study music and ask some world class musicians like I have, they will explain that there are good forms of music and bad forms of music. We have to decide what's good and what's bad and remove the bad influences form our lives and try to listen to good music.
There are studies that have been done as to the effects of music on people from a psychological perspective and ability to learn math and other things with greater ease. Classical and jazz (more importantly improvisational jazz) are VERY good from a psychological perspective. The other aspect of rap music is the entire culture that goes along with it. How many articulate, well spoken people are there in the rap community that speak fluent english, that have a firm grasp of how to play musical instruments and can actually play other forms of music? Not many. Look at the types of people that end up not finishing high school, go in/out of jail, end up in some gang related issue. Are they prominently jazz or classical musicians? Hardly. I think Rap kind of takes the prize in this category hands down. k It's not just that I don't like rap music, I just don't consider it a REAL form of music that should be put on a pedestal, considered REAL music, and should be paid any attention. Look at Queen Latifah. When I first saw her, I thought she was a joke. But, as she grew up and matured, she got away from rap, changed her appearance to be more respectable and got rid of that ghetto mentality and become a decent jazz singer and she speaks like you would never have thought she was ever involved with rap music. Well, guess what, she's not a rapper anymore and I'm sure deep down she wishes she made it as a jazz singer first instead of rap. But she didn't. She was young, naive and immature during her early years, but I respect the fact that she got out of that industry and can carry herself similar to how respected jazz musicians and singers behave. With some freaking dignity. Rap to me is for the unintelligent, illiterate, lazy, and mindless crap that somehow got some credibility from the music industry primarily because of how much money they were making. There originally weren't taken seriously and it was only due to the money. NOTHING ELSE.
I don't particularly care for lots of bands, etc. But that's a personal preference. Rap is not just a personal preference that I'm against. I'm against the entire culture and I can tell you there are a LOT of educated blacks that hate rap culture just as much as I do. Only they aren't as vocal about it for fear of getting whacked.
Really? Then my mistaken because I thought you had been shown rap music with "a sequence of single notes that is musically satisfying" and still say it's not music because you don't like it.
If you think that's some form of music to be taken seriously on any level, then you must have a catalog of nothing but crap in your music collection. I didn't even bother watching the video because like most of your other postings, it's kind of a waste of my time.
If that's music to you, then you must think the Monkees was a real group of talented musicians and that Justin Bieber can actually sing well.
Really? Then my mistaken because I thought you had been shown rap music with "a sequence of single notes that is musically satisfying" and still say it's not music because you don't like it.
No you really don't read very well do you? I haven't been shown that rap music has a sequence of single notes that is musically satisfying. There aren't much in the way of a melody line. I think it's not really music. it's generally not performed by musicians, therefor how can it be music? rapping is talking, it's not singing words with a melody line.
The jazz guy wasn't rapping, he was singing a jazz influenced melody line with vulgar lyrics to mock the rap industry and it wasn't anything that should be take as serious music. The others, same thing. nothing but amateur musicians that aren't anything to take SERIOUSLY.
Again, I will ask you the same question for which I have not seen an answer. Are you a musician? If not, then you have really very little knowledge of the subject and you really have very little to draw from in order to make a conclusion. I don't like it, not because it isn't music, i see nothing positive about the music and the culture it breeds. PERIOD. END OF STORY and move on. Please. i don't like your manipulation tactics trying to put words in my mouth. You seem to do that often. Sorry, but so far, you haven't proven your side of the argument.
There are singers that might rap during a portion of a regular pop song, but that's not generally considered RAP MUSIC. That's considered rapping in a pop song. Rapping can be done a little more positive but generally has to be done with REAL musicians in a song where there is some form of melody lines. But I see those as more gimmicky and something that goes in/out of style pretty quickly. I think the Black Crowes has a song where the singer was kind of rapping for one of their hit songs, but it wasn't considered a RAP song or a RAP music hit song. But rap music in general doesn't have much in the way of musicians playing or with any melody lines. If you want to ac t immature about it, go right ahead. I don't get much music in my personal catalog that has much immature mentality associated with it. I get rid of it the second I feel it's not something to take seriously.
The other thing you fail to realize is that during the last 40 years or so playing music, I've played with people performing a WIDE variety of music. I've hung around a LOT of different people from different cultures, different parts of the world and different styles music to not only get educated as to the different forms of music and to be able to play with as much proficiency as someone that grew up around that style of music. I've played with a LOT of musicians that played in the old school funk, R&B, reggae, south african afropop, country, jazz, rock, latin, blues, the list goes on. In all of my travels the musicians that are in THESE types of genres do NOT like that rap culture that Dr. Dre and his equals do. I've hung around a rapper that did a Jamaican form of rapping, but it was TOTALLY different. He actually did it with some melody which was REALLY unique and he was really good at it and it worked for what he did. But he didtn't swear, he didn't go down to the level that these other rappers do and his was done with music played by musicians,not some stupid sequenced beat that is annoying to listen to. NONE of the people I ever socialized with playing music would have this attitude where they call each other niggas, bitches, ho's, etc. NONE of them. Some of these musicians were very articulate, some weren't because they just didn't grow up being able to continue their education, but at least they tried as best as they could to talk with some degree of intelligence. I would say that most of them HATE the rap culture. I mean HATE It. It's not just the music, it the whole culture behind it. So I can't see why ANYONE with any level of intelligence would promote it or even THINK it was positive for society. I know one musician/producer that produced some rap artists, but he was trying to do it with a more R&B approach rather than the typical RAP approach. And this producer has played and produced some pretty famous people through the years, so i know there might have been other connections made. I was asked to do some session work for his R&B rap artiss, but I declined because i just couldn't be part of any music where I just didn't agree with the lyrics and the culture behind it. It was a shame because I played old school R&B/Funk with this person and he wanted to do his own projects doing that instead of going down the rap direction, but we needed funding to pursue that and he didn't have that together, so he went and produced R&B rap artists instead.
You have been shown but you're either being purposely obtuse or you really don't know shit about music which is why you are, as I correctly stated, don't think that composed vocals and/or instrumental sounds combined in such a way as to produce beauty of form, harmony, and expression of emotion is music.
oops too late!!
Does Dr. Dre know how to read music as a producer? He should. Most of the REAL legendary producers like George Martin, Quincy Jones, and others that have produced legendary classic albums in pop music DEFINITELY know how to read music and those guys CAN play instruments and they know many different styles of music. I look up to them, but Dr. Dre I dismiss as some scam artist that just happened to market his crap to ignorant children.
It really just sounds like you don't like hip hop or rap and just dismiss the entire thing with a lot of musical snobbery. Music is more than your rigid guidelines and rules. It's an expression, sometimes a story. Many of the rap music people dismiss are full of emotion, meaning and poetry, with core elements of rhythm, melody and timing. Much more so than some other drivel that people normally associate as popular music.
And frankly, it doesn't even sound like you know much about Dr. Dre at all but dismiss him as a scam artist.
You have been shown but you're either being purposely obtuse or you really don't know shit about music which is why you are, as I correctly stated, don't think that composed vocals and/or instrumental sounds combined in such a way as to produce beauty of form, harmony, and expression of emotion is music.
Get off your ego trip. I know a LOT more about music than you can possibly fathom. You aren't a musician that has played a variety of style of music on any professional level. Music doesn't always have to have vocals to be music. Most classical music doesn't have vocals. music can produce different types of moods, there is experimental forms of music, but it's all performed by musicians. Rap is predominately not performed by musicians.
"Don't think that composed vocals and/or instrumental sounds combined in such a way as to produce beauty of form, harmony and expression of emotion is music"? What are you talking about. Then since you aren't a musician, what do you THINK music is? Define music, or define a form of music that's legitimate and to be taken seriously?
Again, I must reiterate, you aren't a musician, so what ever you THINK doesn't really hold much validity unless you can get a lot of musicians to agree with you. Again, i have stated there are good and bad forms of music or what people THINK is music. Who decides that? We as individuals ultimately decide. You can think rap music is music all day long, but i will never agree with that nor will i agree that it's a good form of music that should be promoted, bought, sold, and performed without the use of trained (self taught or formally trained) musicians. You can't have music without musicians. That's who performs music. Non-musicians can't perform music very well, which is why they aren't considered musicians. to my knowledge rapping isn't taught in music conservatories that I know. Professional vocal instructors don't normally teach people how to rap. Rapping is more of street music. There isn't much, if any musical theory ?behind rap music. There's no chord progressions that are in rap music, there are no scales in rap music that are used, so there really isn't much musicianship other than understanding rhythm and talking in a rhymic fashion, but without those melody lines, there isn't much for the listener to hang on to from a melodic standpoint. And the culture that it breeds is pretty much dumbed to the point where it breeds stupidity. Again, you listen to a lot of rap music and have Dr. Dre's CDs in your collection and hang around that crowd of people that listen to rap music?
There have been producers like Quincy Jones that experimented with jazz and putting rap to it and it failed. It didn't catch on at all. That's why it's rarely done by anyone of significance in the jazz world. It was more of a gimmick. They do it sometimes in rock like what Run DMC did with that Aerosmith song, it was catchy and sold, but it was done once and it was more of a gimmick. I don't see Steven Tyler calling Run DMC or any of those other idiots doing entire records with rap artists and taking them on the road, do you? NO, it was more of a gimmick. It worked for a little while, but it's not seen as anything that serious other than it made some money and was famous for a little while, but it pretty much died shortly thereafter and I don't think that many people actually pull that out and replay it anywhere. It's been a while since i've heard it, but it got old REAL fast. But it wasn't really a rap song, it was rappers rapping to a rock song. Even Tyler doesn't sing like that on most of his material.
Says the guy that says rap music isn't music.
You're clearly not demonstrating that here. All you're doing is saying how you much more you know whilst showing your ignorance.
Sure, you can think that.
And you have claims that the music Dre has produced isn't real music if there is rapping on it as if that nullifies that the rest of the song's legitimacy. Oh wait, you claims that if there is minimal rapping on a pop song it can still be considered music. How fucking gracious of you. :rolleyes:
No shit yet you're the one that has said rap music isn't music.
The depth of your knowledge is truly awe-inspiring¡
More BS.
You can't be fucking serious?! You don't even know the definition of music when it's in front of you.
noun
1 vocal or instrumental sounds (or both) combined in such a way as to produce beauty of form, harmony, and expression of emotion.
That's the New Oxford American Dictionary, 3rd Edition
1) You keep saying this. Has wishful thinking ever really worked out for you in the past?
2) I suppose anyone who hasn't written a novel can't determine what a novel is either.
It's fine that you don't like it (no one claims that is wrong) but your comment just sounds condescending and douchie when you claim that rap music isn't music then recite specious and supercilious ideologies that are only appear to be propping up your insecurities about music and have mostly died out a long time ago. You're just as bad as the people that say street art isn't art of that Picasco wasn't a good painter.
So it is a huge factor, not both. Thanks for clarifying.
Here's something else, although unrelated…
[VIDEO]
I guess Jay-Z now has a 100 problems.
Better that than a musicist.
Says the guy that says rap music isn't music.
You're clearly not demonstrating that here. All you're doing is saying how you much more you know whilst showing your ignorance.
Sure, you can think that.
And you have claims that the music Dre has produced isn't real music if there is rapping on it as if that nullifies that the rest of the song's legitimacy. Oh wait, you claims that if there is minimal rapping on a pop song it can still be considered music. How fucking gracious of you.
No shit yet you're the one that has said rap music isn't music.
The depth of your knowledge is truly awe-inspiring¡
More BS.
You can't be fucking serious?! You don't even know the definition of music when it's in front of you.
noun
1 vocal or instrumental sounds (or both) combined in such a way as to produce beauty of form, harmony, and expression of emotion.
That's the New Oxford American Dictionary, 3rd Edition
1) You keep saying this. Has wishful thinking ever really worked out for you in the past?
2) I suppose anyone who hasn't written a novel can't determine what a novel is either.
It's fine that you don't like it (no one claims that is wrong) but your comment just sounds condescending and douchie when you claim that rap music isn't music then recite specious and supercilious ideologies that are only appear to be propping up your insecurities about music and have mostly died out a long time ago. You're just as bad as the people that say street art isn't art of that Picasco wasn't a good painter.
Rap music doesn't have harmony. It's definitely not a form of beauty either. but you are telling me NOT to think that.
No, I don't consider it music because it doesn't have harmony and no real melody.
Well, to the parents of a child that does some finger painting, they think its the most beautiful thing in the world and consider it art, but I don't see many children's paintings making it to the Museum of Modern Art and well respected people in the art community thinking that a little kids fingerprinting is a work of art unless that person turns out to eventually be a huge artist later in life and they drag those finger paintings as historical art during their children's years. I happen to have some drawings in my possession that were created by a now famous artist. The drawings were done very early in their career and were never shown publicly and are not considered major works of art, but still retain value in terms of historical value because the painter is VERY famous and his REAL paintings go for millions of dollars, so they do have some inherent value, but they aren't that great in terms of works of art. Yeah, what experts think is art can be debatable. I grew up around a pretty famous and reputable art gallery owner that was responsible for bringing some very prolific artists to a high level of stature and they are considered a big deal in the art world, and they would show my parents some up and coming artist some paintings that I had a difficult time thinking it was art. The paintings I'm referring to were two identical sized canvases each painted a solid color. One was red and other was green and there were no brush strokes and it looked like someone just chose some rather ugly colors, took out a roller and within 2 minutes painted each canvas a solid color. I was a kid at the time and I thought anyone could do that and if my parents wanted them, then I could do it a LOT cheaper and instead of charing thousands of dollars, I do it for half the cost. Obviously, they didn't take me up on the offer, but I think they retuned them back to the gallery. But, MOST artists that are considered of some significance TYPICALLY have some degree of training. Yeah, I know there are street artists, but they generally don't hold that much value in the art world. It may be street art, but when was the last time Christies sold some street art? It generally doesn't hold much value or go up in value unless the artist becomes really famous somehow and even then, its debatable on the value of it from the art world perspective. VERY few POP artists actually really make it in the art world with much credibility. Andy Warhol is generally the most famous, but a lot of pop artists generally don't do as well unless they have some serious art training. The street guys don't typically end up becoming famous and valuable.
How many street artists actually get to become famous and their art shown at major museums around the world? Not many if any.
Picasso had certain periods where I liked his work and some of his periods I didn't. he did go through a lot of phases like a lot of artists go through. That's why some works are more valuable than others. Some artists paint in the style of certain periods of some of the famous artists, but they generally aren't considered as major works. The artist has to basically develop a stye that is considered unique and different than anyone else that's catches the attention of the major art critics from different parts of the world. That's why these street artists generally aren't taken as seriously. is it art? Yeah, anything of that nature can be seen as art, but it's not something that serious and of value to anyone that has a serious background in that industry. Do I always agree with the top art critics? No. What they think is worthy and valuable, I could give a rip. I find the Mona Lisa something I wouldn't want in my house as I find it rather not pleasant to look at. I don't like that style of art, but plant of people do. But coming from a standpoint that I've studied music and have played professionally at some level, I think I can easily say that rap music isn't really anything serious that I really don't consider as a REAL form of music. It's more gimmicks being marketed as music, when it really isn't. The pop world calls a LOT of things music that I really don't take seriously at all. Speed metal is another messed up form of so-called music. It lacks any form of blues influences which is where rock music came from, but there isn't anything oriented to blues in speed metal. Pop music has had it's share of BS over the years. What they call R&B has very little resemblance to the original forms of R&B. It's kind of stupid and maybe that's why the music industry is hurting. Kids growing up aren't studying real forms of music, they just study their favorite pop artist and basically try to mimic them, but they have no clue on music theory. Kind of like Justin Bieber. He was great at mimicking a singer, but he really doesn't have the training and background that is required to be a legitimate singer. Why do you think they have use AutoTune and Melodyne pitch correction on every one of his recordings? Because he can't freaking sing on pitch. He made a big deal about Stevie Wonder wanting to work with him, so where is that song anyway? I think Stevie Wonder realized that the kid really can't sing without pitch correction and Stevie Wonder doesn't use pitch correction because he knows how to sing. The pop music industry is great at marketing BS. Remember the Monkees? They weren't really a REAL group of musicians, heck I think only one of them KIND of sang and another kind of played musical instrument, but their albums for most part were written by professional songwriters and the music was played by session players, but kids were led to believe it was a REAL group. Ah, the BS the pop music industry plays to make a buck. It's kind of disgusting what they sometimes promote and call music. How about Devo? Remember them? I thought they were more comical than anything. Was it music? Well, kinda sorta. You can think rap music is music, but you probably wouldn't be seen as someone to take seriously, at least not in my book and that of other musicians.
Very well said.
Rap rapes the ears and the mind.
The biggest problem I see is with Apple bringing in Dr. Dre and his group of idiots that post vulgar obscenities calling each other niggers, etc. while they are ripping drunk. I can see this sort of behavior backfiring on Apple in a major way if Dr. Dre is to be part of Apple. I can see all kinds of people from the educational market and other advocacy groups raising a big stink which could turn into a lot of negative publicity for Apple if Dr. Dre and his buddies continue that behavior. That won't fly with a lot of people. It certainly is going to fuel a hell of a lot of bad publicity that's for sure.
What do you think Apple would do if an employee of Apple posted some videos of themselves getting ripping drunk yelling obscenities such as they are and this was someone in upper management that's known that they are an employee of Apple? Apple would get that content pulled as fast as possible and that person would be fired as quickly as possible. So THINK a?bout the potential nightmare Apple PR has with Dr. Dre and he loser drunk friends? Rap or no rap. Dr. Dre's buddies are bad for business. Apple would loss a LOT of credibility within certain circles, so I see Dr. Dre a HUGE liability if he is to work for Apple on ANY level.
When these famous celebrities screw up in public, they lose their endorsements.
Ah, your true motivations are finally coming out. Of course, you'll then say, "But I hate wigger rappers, too, so I can't be racist." Good luck with that¡