I've been saying for some time that the iPhone should come in escalating and shrinking sizes starting with an introductory 3.0 inch model and stepping up every half inch or so to a 5.5 inch model. That would be 3.0, 3.5, 4.0, 4.5, 5.0 and 5.5 inch. If Apple wanted to reduce number of models, they could do 3.25, 4.0, 4.75 and 5.5 or whatever numbers give them the proper scaling to reduce work for developers. That would be small, medium, large and XL without being grossly large or much too tiny.
I doubt he is correct. Mixpanel has iPhone 5s going from 14.1% to 21.56% of iPhone's in use during 1st quarter, iPhone 5c going from 4.93% to 6.71%. That works out to a ratio of 4.2 new iPhone 5s to every iPhone 5c. His ratio is 17.75. I think I believe Mixpanel. His problem is looking at the average starting price of the various models versus the most likely selling price of each model and retail markup. There is a wider range of prices for the iPhone 5s than the 5c of 4s. Retailers make a profit (when Apple does not sell it themselves).
Hey it's the "let's make the 5C sales look as bad as possible" reports. I doubt the 4S is outselling the 5C.
Agreed. How was the 5c the 2nd and 3rd best seller on all US carriers, but way behind 4s sales? I know, developing markets may opt for the 4s, but to be the #2 phone on the US would be hard to overpass
Agreed. How was the 5c the 2nd and 3rd best seller on all US carriers, but way behind 4s sales? I know, developing markets may opt for the 4s, but to be the #2 phone on the US would be hard to overpass
The 5C doesn't even show as one of the top 3 smartphones during January through March 2014.
Way too many misinterpretations of the article in one page of comments.
No where did the article state the 4S is doing better than the 5c. The article merely points out that despite the 5c being newly introduced at the same ON CONTRACT price point (not off contract), the 4S still sells. Not better, not well, not any specific measure...just that it continues to sell.
There may come a time in Apple's future when it is possible for them to offer all of their hardware at far slimmer margins if the manufacturing process is improved to the point where an iPhone/"iDevice" is molded and assembled with no human hands in the process. It would flip the traditional model of Apple making their profits on hardware and incremental sales on software, but as high quality manufacturing improves, and device capability improves to the point where an iPhone is as important as owning a credit card, most of the profits may come from software and services going forward...it could be that post-artificial intelligence, services will be everything!
I love my 4S but those prices feel too high given what you can buy for the same money on the Android side. Just saying.
I wish Apple would introduce new phones and drop the price of the 4S by half.
What you can buy on the Android side for that money is junk when you consider that they likely will never get an update, and that the quality is low, along with user satisfaction. Just saying.
It's interesting just how naive people are about manufacturing. Do you really think that Apple can simply drop the price of a product by half, that's already had its price cut by 31%? Apple is making somewhat lower margins with this now than when it was the top model. Those margins were about 47% then. Likely the margins now are closer to the 35-40% range. That's gross margin, not profit. If they cut the price by half, they would have a negative margin of around 29%. Is that good business? Well, for some companies it is, because they expect to lose money on products. We can look to the XBox, the PSx series and the WiiU. They have all lost money.
Way too many misinterpretations of the article in one page of comments.
No where did the article state the 4S is doing better than the 5c. The article merely points out that despite the 5c being newly introduced at the same ON CONTRACT price point (not off contract), the 4S still sells. Not better, not well, not any specific measure...just that it continues to sell.
Really? I'll need you to interpret this for me then:
"Wolf estimates that the iPhone 5s accounted for 71 percent of March quarter sales, while the iPhone 5c took just 4 percent. That means the iPhone 4S would have taken the remaining 25 percent of sales for the three-month span."
Hey it's the "let's make the 5C sales look as bad as possible" reports. I doubt the 4S is outselling the 5C.
Don't be so sure. The look of the 4S is so much better than that of the 5C, that it just looks and feels like a better phone, despite the older electronics.
There may come a time in Apple's future when it is possible for them to offer all of their hardware at far slimmer margins if the manufacturing process is improved to the point where an iPhone/"iDevice" is molded and assembled with no human hands in the process. It would flip the traditional model of Apple making their profits on hardware and incremental sales on software, but as high quality manufacturing improves, and device capability improves to the point where an iPhone is as important as owning a credit card, most of the profits may come from software and services going forward...it could be that post-artificial intelligence, services will be everything!
Can someone explain how this guy would know the breakdown of iPhone sales by model? Apple doesn't release that information so where is he getting it from?
They get data from retailers worldwide, and also talk to suppliers and look at their sales of products.
Agreed. How was the 5c the 2nd and 3rd best seller on all US carriers, but way behind 4s sales? I know, developing markets may opt for the 4s, but to be the #2 phone on the US would be hard to overpass
These days, sales in the USA are just over 20% of worldwide sales of most any major product. So what is happening here has just a relatively minor effect overall.
But what isn't being taken into account here is the fact that Apple had brought the 4 back from retirement for third world countries, and it was responsible for a doubling of sales in India and a number of other places. That phone was just again removed a few weeks ago. So it's possible that some of those 10 million in sales should be attributed to the older 4.
I love my 4S but those prices feel too high given what you can buy for the same money on the Android side. Just saying.
I wish Apple would introduce new phones and drop the price of the 4S by half.
Wish all you want. It’s not going to happen. If you don’t know Apple’s business model by now you never will. They are NOT interested in the low margin race to the bottom. It takes a lot of time and money to provide the superior customer service Apple offers with its products. It takes a lot of time and money to develop the hardware and software Apple is famous for. To support both and make a profit it takes healthy margins. Ask yourself this. If you could get a really cheap, bottom of the barrel iPhone would you be willing to give up the customer service, the iOS development to pay for the low price and low profit margin?
I want both and I’m willing to pay for it. So were over 200 million others.
When iphone 4 came out, it was all around good sized iPhone including balanced ratio of length-width screen size. When apple came out with iphone 5, it was freaking screwed up screen size. Apple extended length(tall) of screen size but width was same as iphone 4s. Many users like iphone 4/4s balance screen size so much that many never migrated to iphone 5/5s and still buying 4x iphone. Hope, when iphone 6 comes out, apple just take iphone 4/4s screen and proportionally extend length and width where it doesn't just get tall screen but also provides good width. Look at ipad and ipad mini proportional(length to width) screen size and compare with iphone 5/5s. No wonder iphone 4/4s still loved by many in world.
I bought my first iPhone which happens to be a 4S the day it was available in my country. Two years later, it still feels like new. In my humble opinion, it may be the best iPhone/phone every built.
The touch ID in iPhone 5s is absolutely nice though. However it feels less robust than my iPhone 4S.
Very first comment after reading you guys all these years.
The reasoning for its popularity has two undeniable driving factors: Price & Size.
For me it is all about size though I know many consider price to be a factor. My frustration with Apple is that they don't update this form factor anymore. I really don't want a phone that I have to carry in a holster because my pockets aren't big enough.
While Price is going to be a driving factor, I'm sure there are people out there that simply want a smaller device.
Yep. I'm waving my hands in the air right now in the hopes that Apple is reading this. I have not upgraded my 4 yet because I don't want a jumbo phone. I'm waiting for Apple to give me a real upgrade to the 4 form factor
While I don't expect Apple to continue to offer 3.5" screens forever, its worth noting that the 4" display size is going to remain important for years to come, even if the flagship device is only available as 4.7".
My concern with Apple is that they are chasing fads and not watching out for the bulk of the market. My iPhone isn't expected to do the things my iPad does. In fact I don't want to give up the ultra portability that the iPhone represents.
I still think Apple should be redesigning and producing a new 4" model to accompany this year's 4.7" model.
I for one have no desire to lug around a huge cell phone in my pocket. I really hope that Apple is paying attention to what customers want here and not what a few analyst insist that they build. Apple needs a range of cell phones and needs to give up on the one pony show.
As for this report, the numbers are probably bogus, from what I understand the 5C is selling a lot better than this report implies.
There may come a time in Apple's future when it is possible for them to offer all of their hardware at far slimmer margins if the manufacturing process is improved to the point where an iPhone/"iDevice" is molded and assembled with no human hands in the process. It would flip the traditional model of Apple making their profits on hardware and incremental sales on software, but as high quality manufacturing improves, and device capability improves to the point where an iPhone is as important as owning a credit card, most of the profits may come from software and services going forward...it could be that post-artificial intelligence, services will be everything!
What do toy mean by "far slimmer margins"? Slimmer margins mean less profit. I don't see Apple doing that. They would need to sell far more software to make up for those lower margins, and the trend with Apple over the years has been to lower software prices, and to give otherwise paid software away for free. Software has always been, and will likely continue to be the way Apple pulls customers into their system.
So while software maintains ultra high margins for software makers such as Adobe and Microsoft, Apple just uses it as a come on, as they have now done with iWork.
Services such as payments will give them very small margins because they will be competing with the major traditional payment services. There is no way the can work around that. Merchants won't use a system that charges more, which is why Amex isn't accepted everywhere.
People in world still like excellent proportional(length to width) screen size of iphone 4/4s. Such proportionality is found in ipad mini and ipad. When apple came out with iphone 5/5s; apple really scred up screen size making it taller in length but width kept same as iphone 4/4s. This was one reason I stayed with iphone 4s. Hope, when iphone 6 comes out, apple keep good proportionality of screen size like iphone 4/4s. If apple upgrade processor to A7 and add LTE to iphone 4s, sapphire screen and price bit cheaper than not only I will upgrade/buy but apple can continue selling iphone 4x at 25% iphone shipment per quarter.
Comments
Agreed. How was the 5c the 2nd and 3rd best seller on all US carriers, but way behind 4s sales? I know, developing markets may opt for the 4s, but to be the #2 phone on the US would be hard to overpass
The 5C doesn't even show as one of the top 3 smartphones during January through March 2014.
Way too many misinterpretations of the article in one page of comments.
No where did the article state the 4S is doing better than the 5c. The article merely points out that despite the 5c being newly introduced at the same ON CONTRACT price point (not off contract), the 4S still sells. Not better, not well, not any specific measure...just that it continues to sell.
Why would you say that, ever, when every point of data we have says otherwise?
What you can buy on the Android side for that money is junk when you consider that they likely will never get an update, and that the quality is low, along with user satisfaction. Just saying.
It's interesting just how naive people are about manufacturing. Do you really think that Apple can simply drop the price of a product by half, that's already had its price cut by 31%? Apple is making somewhat lower margins with this now than when it was the top model. Those margins were about 47% then. Likely the margins now are closer to the 35-40% range. That's gross margin, not profit. If they cut the price by half, they would have a negative margin of around 29%. Is that good business? Well, for some companies it is, because they expect to lose money on products. We can look to the XBox, the PSx series and the WiiU. They have all lost money.
Way too many misinterpretations of the article in one page of comments.
No where did the article state the 4S is doing better than the 5c. The article merely points out that despite the 5c being newly introduced at the same ON CONTRACT price point (not off contract), the 4S still sells. Not better, not well, not any specific measure...just that it continues to sell.
Really? I'll need you to interpret this for me then:
"Wolf estimates that the iPhone 5s accounted for 71 percent of March quarter sales, while the iPhone 5c took just 4 percent. That means the iPhone 4S would have taken the remaining 25 percent of sales for the three-month span."
Don't be so sure. The look of the 4S is so much better than that of the 5C, that it just looks and feels like a better phone, despite the older electronics.
There may come a time in Apple's future when it is possible for them to offer all of their hardware at far slimmer margins if the manufacturing process is improved to the point where an iPhone/"iDevice" is molded and assembled with no human hands in the process. It would flip the traditional model of Apple making their profits on hardware and incremental sales on software, but as high quality manufacturing improves, and device capability improves to the point where an iPhone is as important as owning a credit card, most of the profits may come from software and services going forward...it could be that post-artificial intelligence, services will be everything!
Nonsensical gobbledy goop. IMHO
They get data from retailers worldwide, and also talk to suppliers and look at their sales of products.
These days, sales in the USA are just over 20% of worldwide sales of most any major product. So what is happening here has just a relatively minor effect overall.
But what isn't being taken into account here is the fact that Apple had brought the 4 back from retirement for third world countries, and it was responsible for a doubling of sales in India and a number of other places. That phone was just again removed a few weeks ago. So it's possible that some of those 10 million in sales should be attributed to the older 4.
I love my 4S but those prices feel too high given what you can buy for the same money on the Android side. Just saying.
I wish Apple would introduce new phones and drop the price of the 4S by half.
Wish all you want. It’s not going to happen. If you don’t know Apple’s business model by now you never will. They are NOT interested in the low margin race to the bottom. It takes a lot of time and money to provide the superior customer service Apple offers with its products. It takes a lot of time and money to develop the hardware and software Apple is famous for. To support both and make a profit it takes healthy margins. Ask yourself this. If you could get a really cheap, bottom of the barrel iPhone would you be willing to give up the customer service, the iOS development to pay for the low price and low profit margin?
I want both and I’m willing to pay for it. So were over 200 million others.
The touch ID in iPhone 5s is absolutely nice though. However it feels less robust than my iPhone 4S.
Very first comment after reading you guys all these years.
I for one have no desire to lug around a huge cell phone in my pocket. I really hope that Apple is paying attention to what customers want here and not what a few analyst insist that they build. Apple needs a range of cell phones and needs to give up on the one pony show.
As for this report, the numbers are probably bogus, from what I understand the 5C is selling a lot better than this report implies.
What do toy mean by "far slimmer margins"? Slimmer margins mean less profit. I don't see Apple doing that. They would need to sell far more software to make up for those lower margins, and the trend with Apple over the years has been to lower software prices, and to give otherwise paid software away for free. Software has always been, and will likely continue to be the way Apple pulls customers into their system.
So while software maintains ultra high margins for software makers such as Adobe and Microsoft, Apple just uses it as a come on, as they have now done with iWork.
Services such as payments will give them very small margins because they will be competing with the major traditional payment services. There is no way the can work around that. Merchants won't use a system that charges more, which is why Amex isn't accepted everywhere.
People in world still like excellent proportional(length to width) screen size of iphone 4/4s. Such proportionality is found in ipad mini and ipad. When apple came out with iphone 5/5s; apple really scred up screen size making it taller in length but width kept same as iphone 4/4s. This was one reason I stayed with iphone 4s. Hope, when iphone 6 comes out, apple keep good proportionality of screen size like iphone 4/4s. If apple upgrade processor to A7 and add LTE to iphone 4s, sapphire screen and price bit cheaper than not only I will upgrade/buy but apple can continue selling iphone 4x at 25% iphone shipment per quarter.