Yes, as I said in one of my sentences, they already do something like this, but it is very very crappy. They should do a better job.
And this doesn't have anything to do with the SMS system and telcos... the failure happens when they are checking for delivery of the iMessage over data channels. They should be able to do this far more reliably and quickly than they are doing it now.
Thompson
If it is slow, it's likely they run on different networks or even operated by different parties.
I wonder if the recent Apple CDN rumor will help address it. They may need to "own" and upgrade more of the infrastructure to improve the QoS. That and the SMS/MMS side fixes (for non-iOS users) seem unavoidable.
Let's see. I lost my iPhone and replaced it with an android. Not having my original phone, I had absolutely no way to disable it on my end so I:
1) Went to an apple store and they didn't know what to do except call apple support
2) Called apple support, after jumping through hoops as my phone was no longer within warranty meaning apple support was no longer covered. They blamed it on the carrier.
3) Went to the carrier (even though I knew it made no sense that they could be responsible) and THEY OFFERERED TO LET ME BORROW AN IPHONE SO I COULD STICK MY SIM IN, login to iCloud and disable iMessage (point being so far the evil carrier employees have been more helpful than apple). Unfortunately that didn't work for some reason I'm not remembering.
4) Called back apple support and got someone who could apparently disable it on their end. He needed me the verify over SMS I had the same number on my new phone but I never got the text so he couldn't do anything. He suggested I wait 2 weeks as the certificate was going to expire soon anyway.
5) Wait 2 week (ontop of the month and a half I've already spent of messages being lost to the ether) and the problem resolves itself.
All this hassle over a problem they've known has existed for 3 years and affects EVERY SINGLE person who switches from an iPhone to anything else. WTF.
I would personally hate that as it would cost me a lot of money to be on a flight and get dozens of messages sent to SMS as well as iMessage once my phone reconnects.
Even if they removed the iMessage messages from the server I would still be annoyed because 1) I now have disjointed conversations that are spread across multiple threads, and 2) have to pay 30¢(?) per each SMS/MMS on AT&T since they only have a per message or $20(?) per month unlimited service which I think is ridiculous.
In the past I have had AT&T disable SMS/MMS but I have one person who still needs to send me an occasional SMS so it's now enabled. If I turned it off again under your system all those would get forwarded to my telcp's SMS server and then vanish as the SMS server doesn't inform the sending server of this setting as it's not designed for that, just as iMessae severs arenlt designed to send to telco SMS servers — and I doubt they ever will. SMS messages are sent directly to the telco from the device over the carrier signal, not as standard IP data.
Well Apple better figure something out, because between you and I, we cover both ends of the "can't afford it" spectrum: I can't afford to miss too many regular text messages and you can't afford to receive too many. :-)
But all joking aside, Apple really needs to solve this. I am not one of these Android switchers, and I have known about this problem for quite some time. I just deal with it because Android sucks worse in total than this little issue does. People who have switched away from Apple are likely to be much more incensed about it.
I'm still trying to figure out how that woman who filed the lawsuit was 'penalized and injured'. Did she text 911 saying she was having a heart attack and the whambulance never arrived? Or did her girlfriend not receive the "OMG, it is raining again today" message?
So you're saying it wouldn't bother you if Apple misdirected your incoming text messages so you never see them? I don't believe you.
Correct. I spend about a quarter of my life traveling. My wife also has an iPhone, and does not want to constantly change her settings between iMessage (for her friends and family in the UK) and SMS (to reach me). Not to mention people that do not know that I am traveling. Very very annoying. And very expensive because I end up just having data roaming ON all the time.....
So buy a PAYG SIM with enough data to suit your needs, it's cheaper than roaming AND iMessages will come to your normal phone number.
Sure. But then my phone number doesn't work... There are many workarounds. I think Apple should just fix the problem. And network providers should stop robbing us. I am not even complaining, I was just pointing out that this problem doesn't come up only when you change phones. It also comes up when you travel internationally.
Sorry, I didn't realize this problem has been impacting people for three years. Seems out of character for Apple to let this fester for that long. Why no outcry sooner? Have people really been textless for 3 years? I would have changed my number. C'mon Apple, step to it!
d
Sorry, I didn't realize this problem has been impacting people for three years. Seems out of character for Apple to let this fester for that long. Why no outcry sooner? Have people really been textless for 3 years? I would have changed my number. C'mon Apple, step to it!
If the previous AI thread on the subject is anything to go by there are a lot of reasons this didn't come to Apple's attention sooner as a "problem" even though it seems impossible no one would have discussed this scenario when they were designing the system.
The problem is that it happens after you're on another phone by a different vendor. It's also not guaranteed to happen and you'll still get SMS/MSM from those with non-iPhones as well as those with iPhones that aren't using iMessage at all for some some odd reason, like a data connection issue. There would also need to be a certain level of iPhone to other phone switchers that have noticed the issue and reported it, which isn't likely to happen unless they get plenty of messages from one or more iPhone users.
But it's the first thing that has made many on this site think it's an Android issue or NOT an Apple issue even after the details of the issue had been derailed across many pages.
While we're on the subject of Messages, does anyone else jump back and forth between iOS and OSX? If so, are you still finding, as I am, that the OSX window often displays new messages out of sequence? In my case it seems to happen when the other party was the last to write something and the app is closed on both my iPhone and the Mac. If I open the app on the Mac, the last message from the other party will often be somewhere up the history rather than at the end where it belongs.
It's done that since Day One so it makes me wonder if there's something *I* can be doing or if it's just a bug and hasn't been a priority for Apple.
Simple things. 1. If you simply want to use SMS as regular SMS, then do not sign in to IMessage on your IPhone. This will cause your phone number to be used as normal SMS.
BUT, you will not be able to access your messages on any other devices, such as your IPad, IMac, etc.
Also, you will not get notice when the message is delivered or that the other person has read it.
Also, whenever you trade in a device, you need to RESTORE THE DEVICE THROUGH ITUNES AND SETUP AS A NEW PHONE!
You then also need to sign out of IMessage on any device that uses your same Apple ID.
So, simply put, if you do not want to have yoir number tied to IMessage, then skip that part during Setup.
Also, regarding the Messages "bug", with the memory. When you "restore" the phone, you have to restore it as new through ITunes, and NOT restore a backup on to the phone. If you restore a backup on to the phone, you are simply going to be putting the same info that you are trying to erase back on to the phone.
While we're on the subject of Messages, does anyone else jump back and forth between iOS and OSX? If so, are you still finding, as I am, that the OSX window often displays new messages out of sequence? In my case it seems to happen when the other party was the last to write something and the app is closed on both my iPhone and the Mac. If I open the app on the Mac, the last message from the other party will often be somewhere up the history rather than at the end where it belongs.
It's done that since Day One so it makes me wonder if there's something *I* can be doing or if it's just a bug and hasn't been a priority for Apple.
I haven't had that issue for a long time. Since before Mavericks.
then you can write an iMessage and it will be sent as a sms.
You mean i twill be sent as an SMS.
iMessages are not converted to SMS
Quote:
Originally Posted by waterrockets
Yeah, the iMessage app on the phone
Messages is the app. It send iMessages or SMS/MMS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflagel
The only way to get iMessages on your iPhone as sms
You cannot get iMessages as SMS.
The sender will send either iMessage or SMS. If the receiver has iMessages set to Off, then the sender can only send SMS (except for this issue this article is talking about).
Quote:
Originally Posted by wubbus
The biggest bug in iMessage is still the "Messages (saved)" bug that takes up 4GB of space on my iPhone and cannot be deleted.
If they are "Saved" then you have not deleted them on the iPhone. Delete them, backup and restore your iPhone to recover that space.
You mean i twill be sent as an SMS.
iMessages are not converted to SMS
Messages is the app. It send iMessages or SMS/MMS.
You cannot get iMessages as SMS.
The sender will send either iMessage or SMS. If the receiver has iMessages set to Off, then the sender can only send SMS (except for this issue this article is talking about).
All this needs to be repeated despite my previous assumption that this was understood by anyone that owned an iPhone that read this forum.
If they are "Saved" then you have not deleted them on the iPhone. Delete them, backup and restore your iPhone to recover that space.
I don't find this to be an ideal solution. I don't want all my history deleted as I routinely check for fairly recent items. I wish Apple had a solution that would allow you to purge files that are older than certain time frame or messages that are older than a certain time frame. Examples: Deleting all iMessages attachment files that are older than 1 years or deleting all messages older than 90 days.
Also, the only way I know to do it is to remove every single conversation I have on iMessages, which affects my conversations. This is not a very Apple-like solution and with the several hundreds of conversations I have this takes some time to complete. If you remove them manually from iMessage then restart your phone the messages that hadn't yet been deleted reappear. Since NAND is still slow it takes time for them to actually delete so you'll have to go into Usage and see how much the Messages app is using before you start so you can gauge before and after. I'd say my 2.6 GiB probably took about 15-20 minutes to completely erase. Note, I only did it because I ran out of room on my 16 GB / 12.82 GiB iPhone. I guess I need a larger capacity iPhone next time.
PS: You only need to do the delete the conversations. No need to do a Backup unless you want that as your newest default build, and there is no need to Restore the device.
Correct. I spend about a quarter of my life traveling. My wife also has an iPhone, and does not want to constantly change her settings between iMessage (for her friends and family in the UK) and SMS (to reach me). Not to mention people that do not know that I am traveling. Very very annoying. And very expensive because I end up just having data roaming ON all the time.....
The only solution for both of you (and your wife) is not to use message app when you travelling. I find that WhatsAPP, LINE Chat, WeCHAT are excellent options. When you return home, you may resume using Messages. BTW, LINE Chat is my fav.
Wait, I thought this was just something that had to be turned off in settings. So there actually is a problem that Apple needs to fix?
You can't turn it off in settings if you've already downgraded to a different phone OS and no longer have your old iPhone active or in your possession. I think of it as Karma for dumb people.
You can't turn it off in settings if you've already downgraded to a different phone OS and no longer have your old iPhone active or in your possession. I think of it as Karma for dumb people.
Hence the stupidity remarks, perhaps the person selling the new phone should give some advice or perhaps they are too preoccupied with commissions or spending the points they just earned in kickbacks from the new phone manufacturer.
I hope Apple see this as an opportunity. Seamless data roaming + "any" device messaging sounds like a good package if they can enhance iMessage to handle all these edge cases and extended use cases.
Apple does not control the phone's roaming capabilities. The service that you are able to access when outside of the country that your phone was designed to work in, is determined by the data and voice capabilities of the available networks overseas. Some iOS features, such as FaceTime and iCloud are not even available in some countries, due to local communications laws. Apple puts in the antennas that are agreed upon by the carrier that is claiming primary responsibility for the cellular service of that particular IPhone.
Hence the stupidity remarks, perhaps the person selling the new phone should give some advice or perhaps they are too preoccupied with commissions or spending the points they just earned in kickbacks from the new phone manufacturer.
What does a sales rep selling an Android phone (or any phone) know about the iMessage back end server configuration and shortcomings?
This is an issue with Apple's system. This is not an issue with Android. This is not an issue with Samsung. This is not an issue the customer. This is not an issue with the carrier's retail employee. Only Apple can resolve this issue!
What does a sales rep selling an Android phone (or any phone) know about the iMessage back end server configuration and shortcomings?
This is an issue with Apple's system. This is not an issue with Android. This is not an issue with Samsung. This is not an issue the customer. This is not an issue with the carrier's retail employee. Only Apple can resolve this issue!
If they are selling phones they should know their products.
When wiping a phone iMessage is turned off, iCloud unlinked, find my iPhone disabled and the iPhone wiped or the person who buys it will not be able to activate it.
Comments
If it is slow, it's likely they run on different networks or even operated by different parties.
I wonder if the recent Apple CDN rumor will help address it. They may need to "own" and upgrade more of the infrastructure to improve the QoS. That and the SMS/MMS side fixes (for non-iOS users) seem unavoidable.
Let's see. I lost my iPhone and replaced it with an android. Not having my original phone, I had absolutely no way to disable it on my end so I:
1) Went to an apple store and they didn't know what to do except call apple support
2) Called apple support, after jumping through hoops as my phone was no longer within warranty meaning apple support was no longer covered. They blamed it on the carrier.
3) Went to the carrier (even though I knew it made no sense that they could be responsible) and THEY OFFERERED TO LET ME BORROW AN IPHONE SO I COULD STICK MY SIM IN, login to iCloud and disable iMessage (point being so far the evil carrier employees have been more helpful than apple). Unfortunately that didn't work for some reason I'm not remembering.
4) Called back apple support and got someone who could apparently disable it on their end. He needed me the verify over SMS I had the same number on my new phone but I never got the text so he couldn't do anything. He suggested I wait 2 weeks as the certificate was going to expire soon anyway.
5) Wait 2 week (ontop of the month and a half I've already spent of messages being lost to the ether) and the problem resolves itself.
All this hassle over a problem they've known has existed for 3 years and affects EVERY SINGLE person who switches from an iPhone to anything else. WTF.
I would personally hate that as it would cost me a lot of money to be on a flight and get dozens of messages sent to SMS as well as iMessage once my phone reconnects.
Even if they removed the iMessage messages from the server I would still be annoyed because 1) I now have disjointed conversations that are spread across multiple threads, and 2) have to pay 30¢(?) per each SMS/MMS on AT&T since they only have a per message or $20(?) per month unlimited service which I think is ridiculous.
In the past I have had AT&T disable SMS/MMS but I have one person who still needs to send me an occasional SMS so it's now enabled. If I turned it off again under your system all those would get forwarded to my telcp's SMS server and then vanish as the SMS server doesn't inform the sending server of this setting as it's not designed for that, just as iMessae severs arenlt designed to send to telco SMS servers — and I doubt they ever will. SMS messages are sent directly to the telco from the device over the carrier signal, not as standard IP data.
Well Apple better figure something out, because between you and I, we cover both ends of the "can't afford it" spectrum: I can't afford to miss too many regular text messages and you can't afford to receive too many. :-)
But all joking aside, Apple really needs to solve this. I am not one of these Android switchers, and I have known about this problem for quite some time. I just deal with it because Android sucks worse in total than this little issue does. People who have switched away from Apple are likely to be much more incensed about it.
Thompson
So you're saying it wouldn't bother you if Apple misdirected your incoming text messages so you never see them? I don't believe you.
Correct. I spend about a quarter of my life traveling. My wife also has an iPhone, and does not want to constantly change her settings between iMessage (for her friends and family in the UK) and SMS (to reach me). Not to mention people that do not know that I am traveling. Very very annoying. And very expensive because I end up just having data roaming ON all the time.....
So buy a PAYG SIM with enough data to suit your needs, it's cheaper than roaming AND iMessages will come to your normal phone number.
Sorry, I didn't realize this problem has been impacting people for three years. Seems out of character for Apple to let this fester for that long. Why no outcry sooner? Have people really been textless for 3 years? I would have changed my number. C'mon Apple, step to it!
If the previous AI thread on the subject is anything to go by there are a lot of reasons this didn't come to Apple's attention sooner as a "problem" even though it seems impossible no one would have discussed this scenario when they were designing the system.
The problem is that it happens after you're on another phone by a different vendor. It's also not guaranteed to happen and you'll still get SMS/MSM from those with non-iPhones as well as those with iPhones that aren't using iMessage at all for some some odd reason, like a data connection issue. There would also need to be a certain level of iPhone to other phone switchers that have noticed the issue and reported it, which isn't likely to happen unless they get plenty of messages from one or more iPhone users.
But it's the first thing that has made many on this site think it's an Android issue or NOT an Apple issue even after the details of the issue had been derailed across many pages.
While we're on the subject of Messages, does anyone else jump back and forth between iOS and OSX? If so, are you still finding, as I am, that the OSX window often displays new messages out of sequence? In my case it seems to happen when the other party was the last to write something and the app is closed on both my iPhone and the Mac. If I open the app on the Mac, the last message from the other party will often be somewhere up the history rather than at the end where it belongs.
It's done that since Day One so it makes me wonder if there's something *I* can be doing or if it's just a bug and hasn't been a priority for Apple.
1. If you simply want to use SMS as regular SMS, then do not sign in to IMessage on your IPhone. This will cause your phone number to be used as normal SMS.
BUT, you will not be able to access your messages on any other devices, such as your IPad, IMac, etc.
Also, you will not get notice when the message is delivered or that the other person has read it.
Also, whenever you trade in a device, you need to RESTORE THE DEVICE THROUGH ITUNES AND SETUP AS A NEW PHONE!
You then also need to sign out of IMessage on any device that uses your same Apple ID.
So, simply put, if you do not want to have yoir number tied to IMessage, then skip that part during Setup.
Also, regarding the Messages "bug", with the memory. When you "restore" the phone, you have to restore it as new through ITunes, and NOT restore a backup on to the phone. If you restore a backup on to the phone, you are simply going to be putting the same info that you are trying to erase back on to the phone.
I haven't had that issue for a long time. Since before Mavericks.
then you can write an iMessage and it will be sent as a sms.
You mean i twill be sent as an SMS.
iMessages are not converted to SMS
Yeah, the iMessage app on the phone
Messages is the app. It send iMessages or SMS/MMS.
The only way to get iMessages on your iPhone as sms
You cannot get iMessages as SMS.
The sender will send either iMessage or SMS. If the receiver has iMessages set to Off, then the sender can only send SMS (except for this issue this article is talking about).
The biggest bug in iMessage is still the "Messages (saved)" bug that takes up 4GB of space on my iPhone and cannot be deleted.
If they are "Saved" then you have not deleted them on the iPhone. Delete them, backup and restore your iPhone to recover that space.
All this needs to be repeated despite my previous assumption that this was understood by anyone that owned an iPhone that read this forum.
I don't find this to be an ideal solution. I don't want all my history deleted as I routinely check for fairly recent items. I wish Apple had a solution that would allow you to purge files that are older than certain time frame or messages that are older than a certain time frame. Examples: Deleting all iMessages attachment files that are older than 1 years or deleting all messages older than 90 days.
Also, the only way I know to do it is to remove every single conversation I have on iMessages, which affects my conversations. This is not a very Apple-like solution and with the several hundreds of conversations I have this takes some time to complete. If you remove them manually from iMessage then restart your phone the messages that hadn't yet been deleted reappear. Since NAND is still slow it takes time for them to actually delete so you'll have to go into Usage and see how much the Messages app is using before you start so you can gauge before and after. I'd say my 2.6 GiB probably took about 15-20 minutes to completely erase. Note, I only did it because I ran out of room on my 16 GB / 12.82 GiB iPhone. I guess I need a larger capacity iPhone next time.
PS: You only need to do the delete the conversations. No need to do a Backup unless you want that as your newest default build, and there is no need to Restore the device.
Correct. I spend about a quarter of my life traveling. My wife also has an iPhone, and does not want to constantly change her settings between iMessage (for her friends and family in the UK) and SMS (to reach me). Not to mention people that do not know that I am traveling. Very very annoying. And very expensive because I end up just having data roaming ON all the time.....
The only solution for both of you (and your wife) is not to use message app when you travelling. I find that WhatsAPP, LINE Chat, WeCHAT are excellent options. When you return home, you may resume using Messages. BTW, LINE Chat is my fav.
You can't turn it off in settings if you've already downgraded to a different phone OS and no longer have your old iPhone active or in your possession. I think of it as Karma for dumb people.
You can't turn it off in settings if you've already downgraded to a different phone OS and no longer have your old iPhone active or in your possession. I think of it as Karma for dumb people.
Hence the stupidity remarks, perhaps the person selling the new phone should give some advice or perhaps they are too preoccupied with commissions or spending the points they just earned in kickbacks from the new phone manufacturer.
Apple does not control the phone's roaming capabilities. The service that you are able to access when outside of the country that your phone was designed to work in, is determined by the data and voice capabilities of the available networks overseas. Some iOS features, such as FaceTime and iCloud are not even available in some countries, due to local communications laws. Apple puts in the antennas that are agreed upon by the carrier that is claiming primary responsibility for the cellular service of that particular IPhone.
What does a sales rep selling an Android phone (or any phone) know about the iMessage back end server configuration and shortcomings?
This is an issue with Apple's system. This is not an issue with Android. This is not an issue with Samsung. This is not an issue the customer. This is not an issue with the carrier's retail employee. Only Apple can resolve this issue!
What does a sales rep selling an Android phone (or any phone) know about the iMessage back end server configuration and shortcomings?
This is an issue with Apple's system. This is not an issue with Android. This is not an issue with Samsung. This is not an issue the customer. This is not an issue with the carrier's retail employee. Only Apple can resolve this issue!
If they are selling phones they should know their products.
When wiping a phone iMessage is turned off, iCloud unlinked, find my iPhone disabled and the iPhone wiped or the person who buys it will not be able to activate it.
Then everything will work properly.
Someone did a half-assed job.