I think you might have missed the Gaza thread. Like Woodstock, you had to be there. The mods had to delete possibly half the thread and I would guess he might have come extremely close to getting banned. It's either a new mental illness - a sort of Tourette's syndrome - or just old fashioned Trolling
Thanks, I did see that thread and referred to it above. I forgot it was all deleted.
I like the Tourette's theory. Better than the trolling theory, but i'm not throwing that out.
In reference to another forum member you've just posted a picture of Nazis!
And there are at least four or five individual moderators for the forum.
How could they ALL have missed these claims you make?
I don't think they're missing anything. More likely they don't consider him to be violating the rules.
The reason I use the picture of the Brownshirts is to illustrate the ordinaryness and clownishness of authority worshippers, which is the essence of the popular support for fascism. The simple, rumpled characters remind me of Apple ][ in his pothead/Archie Bunker persona. I saw these guys go crazy after 9/11 because their manhood had been challenged. Two years later the invasion of Iraq happened. If I want to know what these people are thinking right now, which I don't, I'd visit a Fox News site, not AI..
I don't think they're missing anything. More likely they don't consider him to be violating the rules.
The reason I use the picture of the Brownshirts is to illustrate the ordinaryness and clownishness of authority worshippers, which is the essence of the popular support for fascism. The simple, rumpled characters remind me of Apple ][ in his pothead/Archie Bunker persona. I saw these guys go crazy after 9/11 because their manhood had been challenged. Two years later the invasion of Iraq happened. If I want to know what these people are thinking right now, which I don't, I'd visit a Fox News site, not AI..
Well, I'll tell you what.
If this one guy on the internet expressing his opinion starts to get out of control and become a force for evil in the universe I will be the first to assist you in demolishing his evil, government regime by holding the stake myself as you drive it through his still-beating heart.
But, in the meantime, if you really want to prevent fascism, how about we extend him a basic human courtesy, give him the right to express his views, and not turn into an electronic lynch mob just because he may have a different favourite colour from us.
how about we extend him a basic human courtesy, give him the right to express his views, and not turn into an electronic lynch mob just because he may have a different favourite colour from us.
I'm not disagreeing with your objective, but I admit I kinda get my back up when you refer to his "opinions" and reduce his vitriol to a comparison of favourite colours.
Making derogatory generalizations about entire races, social classes, and political ideologies is not expressing an "opinion." Divisive and demeaning comments are not expressions of benign preference.
It would be easier for me to get on board if you were calling for tolerance of bad behaviour. Your presenting this individual as a poor, persecuted innocent makes me feel compelled to respond because apparently you just don't understand...
I'm not disagreeing with your objective, but I admit I kinda get my back up when you refer to his "opinions" and reduce his vitriol to a comparison of favourite colours.
Making derogatory generalizations about entire races, social classes, and political ideologies is not expressing an "opinion." Divisive and demeaning comments are not expressions of benign preference.
It would be easier for me to get on board if you were calling for tolerance of bad behaviour. Your presenting this individual as a poor, persecuted innocent makes me feel compelled to respond because apparently you just don't understand...
So you believe that attacking those who are believed to have attacked others is the only option?
So you believe that attacking those who are believed to have attacked others is the only option?
I'm beginning to suspect that either world peace is not really your objective here, or you're not making reading comprehension a priority. Either way, it's obvious that you're not really interested in any kind of meaningful dialog and just wanna paint people as either victims or meanies.
<span style="line-height:1.4em;">I'm beginning to suspect that either world peace is not really your objective here, or you're not making reading comprehension a priority. Either way, it's obvious that you're not really interested in any kind of meaningful dialog and just wanna paint people as either victims or meanies.</span>
<span style="line-height:1.4em;">Have at it. I'll not bother you any further.</span>
You don't have an answer to that question before you go, do you?
If this one guy on the internet expressing his opinion starts to get out of control and become a force for evil in the universe I will be the first to assist you in demolishing his evil, government regime by holding the stake myself as you drive it through his still-beating heart.
But, in the meantime, if you really want to prevent fascism, how about we extend him a basic human courtesy, give him the right to express his views, and not turn into an electronic lynch mob just because he may have a different favourite colour from us.
Like I said, we don't come to AI expecting to have to deal with white American-supremacist rants that spring from the diseased lower layers of one member's brain. When he acts up, as he often does, several object and speak up against him, directed at him. They are doing the right thing speaking up, in this case so the Swiss readership knows that this clown is the exception around here.
"Prevent fascism"—we're already there is my point. Just ask the Iraqis or Afghans. We're trying to dismantle it. I don't have any use for violence, since that's the origin of the problem, but I am in favor of somehow waking up the Apple ][s of the world to the joys of global conviviality without hostility.
Like I said, we don't come to AI expecting to have to deal with white American-supremacist rants that spring from the diseased lower layers of one member's brain. When he acts up, as he often does, several object and speak up against him, directed at him. They are doing the right thing speaking up, in this case so the Swiss readership knows that this clown is the exception around here.
"Prevent fascism"—we're already there is my point. Just ask the Iraqis or Afghans. We're trying to dismantle it. I don't have any use for violence, since that's the origin of the problem, but I am in favor of somehow waking up the Apple ][s of the world to the joys of global conviviality without hostility. It may take something like a trip to the Amazon and a few doses of ayahuasca to do it right, but I think it can be done. Worked once in the 60s with LSD, but it was poorly managed in the end. Long story.
I'm sure the moderators of the site will be able to address many of those concerns for you.
I believe some of the reactions that I observed were a little stronger than just 'speaking up' but I understand how you feel. However, try to keep in mind that it does appear to be a minority that share that view.
You could always try engaging in some constructive criticism if you disagree. It's considerably harder to do but may yield more rewarding, or at least different, results.
I don't think he's as bad as you may think he is. Some of his posts I agree with. Some I do not. Some of his posts are in jest. Some are not. But, like all of us, he's a product of different experiences. I have a pretty wacky concept about 'all of us' which some of you would find interesting. However, some of you would most definitely would not.
Because we're all different.
And we're all here together.
And as we move into this time of high tech and low life, I think we need to refocus our priority on getting to understand one another better.
I heard a phrase quite a few years back which impressed the hell out of me.
It was:
"First become a master of yourself before attempting to become a master of others."
I thought that was pretty cool when I first heard it.
When some revels in posting deliberately the most vile small minded bigoted views and then complains when people object, you know that even constructive criticism's will never have a hope of having a positive affect.
There are hundreds of regular posters on this site, and thousands of readers-only.
However, I don't see thousands or hundreds of people condemning him for the views that he expresses. I don't even see a large percentage of a hundred.
That makes you a minority.
I can understand your difference of opinion. However, it is staggeringly arrogant to automatically assume that yours is right and another is wrong when that conclusion is drawn by only considering data from that amazingly limited perspective known as 'your experience'.
Failing constructive criticism, setting an positive example, or ignoring any perceived 'incorrect information', you may wish to consider tolerance as a more effective response rather than the tit-for-tat bullshit that we've already implemented to such incredible success in various regions around the world.
I think most – like myself most of the time – gloss over his posts with an eye roll when he starts the generalizations. You don't feel like saying anything. It's not like it's going to change. But sometimes it's so awful that some do feel like speaking up.
But now look how a thread about Jony Ive's supposed comments about the state of the watch industry in Switzerland has diverted into 50+ post about whether someone posts troll like comments in multiple threads and gets away with it. Most still posting don't even know what the thread is about anymore.
Number of watches sold annually worldwide - 1,200,000,000 Number of Swiss Watches sold annually - 29,200,000 Number of watches produced by China annually - 663,000,000 Number of watches produced by Hong Kong annually - 354,000.000 Average cost of a Swiss watch - $739 Average cost of a China watch - $3 Switzerland watch market share in terms of value - 54 % Mechanical Watch market share - 77 % Electronic Watch market share - 23 % Swatch / Omega annual sales - $8,880,000,000 Rolex annual sales - $4,500,000,000
Swiss watches make 54% of the revenue (Switzerland = ~$23b) with under 3% of the marketshare.
This is the route Apple typically goes with low marketshare, high revenue. Jony Ive wears a Swiss watch himself:
You can see how low volume the Swiss market is relative to the entire watch market. The question is could Apple persuade people to avoid buying a Swiss watch and their model instead? I think it would be like them trying to sell coffee to compete with Columbia. They are going up against an identity and brand, not just their manufacturing.
Switzerland is vulnerable though. Apple sells more iPhones per quarter than all of Switzerland sells watches in a year. People like the variety in design with jewellery, Apple would just be one of those designs. It could be argued that a minimalist design may appeal to more people but that could also put people off.
Suffice to say, any high value smart watch sold is a potential lost sale of a Swiss watch. If that number creeps into the tens of million per year, it would be a significant blow to Switzerland's watch market. They have about $700b of other exports though. They can increase their cheese output to go with their increase in whine at the losses in their watch exports.
Apple pulled this off with the phone market by simply doing a better job and they became the luxury brand. It would be impressive if they pulled that off in the watch market with such highly priced watches but I doubt it. Someone turning up at a party wearing a $400 Apple watch isn't going to out-luxury a $5k Omega watch - part of the luxury is the exclusivity of ownership due to the high purchase price.
Apple pulled this off with the phone market by simply doing a better job and they became the luxury brand. It would be impressive if they pulled that off in the watch market with such highly priced watches but I doubt it. Someone turning up at a party wearing a $400 Apple watch isn't going to out-luxury a $5k Omega watch - part of the luxury is the exclusivity of ownership due to the high purchase price.
It isn't meaningful to compare the smartphone market to the high-end watch market.
Before the iPhone, the smartphone market was characterised by mediocrity, and was also an immature market ripe for the picking. The high-end watch market, by contrast, is a mature market characterised by the very highest quality skills, design and materials you could possibly imagine. Whereas a luxury watch is designed to last a lifetime or longer, a smart watch has a lifespan of a few short years.
It isn't meaningful to compare the smartphone market to the high-end watch market.
Before the iPhone, the smartphone market was characterised by mediocrity, and was also an immature market ripe for the picking. The high-end watch market, by contrast, is a mature market characterised by the very highest quality skills, design and materials you could possibly imagine. Whereas a luxury watch is designed to last a lifetime or longer, a smart watch has a lifespan of a few short years.
Interesting point. What if the majority of the iWatch is mechanical, using the latest in MEMS for sensors, power and timekeeping, thus enhancing it's jewelry/style/collectability value? That could open the door to high end versions selling in the $1,000-$3,000 range. Remember, this new designer just hired hasn't designed any "smartwatches" just amazing timepieces.
[...] this new designer just hired hasn't designed any "smartwatches" just amazing timepieces.
Have any of his watch designs even been manufactured? A cursory web search turned up only 3D renderings. I didn't see anything actually available for purchase in just a quick look at the first dozen or so results.
There's a world of difference between coming up with a "look" that's appealing and creating a workable design that can be made into an actual functional product. The former doesn't have to accommodate real-world material, space, construction, and cost considerations. Jony knows all about the latter. Does Marc?
Have any of his watch designs even been manufactured? A cursory web search turned up only 3D renderings. I didn't see anything actually available for purchase in just a quick look at the first dozen or so results.
There's a world of difference between coming up with a "look" that's appealing and creating a workable design that can be made into an actual functional product. The former doesn't have to accommodate real-world material, space, construction, and cost considerations. Jony knows all about the latter. Does Marc?
Comments
"2. Attacks against anyone NOT a member of AI, including AI itself, are allowed."
Thanks, I did see that thread and referred to it above. I forgot it was all deleted.
I like the Tourette's theory. Better than the trolling theory, but i'm not throwing that out.
I don't think they're missing anything. More likely they don't consider him to be violating the rules.
The reason I use the picture of the Brownshirts is to illustrate the ordinaryness and clownishness of authority worshippers, which is the essence of the popular support for fascism. The simple, rumpled characters remind me of Apple ][ in his pothead/Archie Bunker persona. I saw these guys go crazy after 9/11 because their manhood had been challenged. Two years later the invasion of Iraq happened. If I want to know what these people are thinking right now, which I don't, I'd visit a Fox News site, not AI..
Well, I'll tell you what.
If this one guy on the internet expressing his opinion starts to get out of control and become a force for evil in the universe I will be the first to assist you in demolishing his evil, government regime by holding the stake myself as you drive it through his still-beating heart.
But, in the meantime, if you really want to prevent fascism, how about we extend him a basic human courtesy, give him the right to express his views, and not turn into an electronic lynch mob just because he may have a different favourite colour from us.
how about we extend him a basic human courtesy, give him the right to express his views, and not turn into an electronic lynch mob just because he may have a different favourite colour from us.
I'm not disagreeing with your objective, but I admit I kinda get my back up when you refer to his "opinions" and reduce his vitriol to a comparison of favourite colours.
Making derogatory generalizations about entire races, social classes, and political ideologies is not expressing an "opinion." Divisive and demeaning comments are not expressions of benign preference.
It would be easier for me to get on board if you were calling for tolerance of bad behaviour. Your presenting this individual as a poor, persecuted innocent makes me feel compelled to respond because apparently you just don't understand...
I'm not disagreeing with your objective, but I admit I kinda get my back up when you refer to his "opinions" and reduce his vitriol to a comparison of favourite colours.
Making derogatory generalizations about entire races, social classes, and political ideologies is not expressing an "opinion." Divisive and demeaning comments are not expressions of benign preference.
It would be easier for me to get on board if you were calling for tolerance of bad behaviour. Your presenting this individual as a poor, persecuted innocent makes me feel compelled to respond because apparently you just don't understand...
So you believe that attacking those who are believed to have attacked others is the only option?
So you believe that attacking those who are believed to have attacked others is the only option?
I'm beginning to suspect that either world peace is not really your objective here, or you're not making reading comprehension a priority. Either way, it's obvious that you're not really interested in any kind of meaningful dialog and just wanna paint people as either victims or meanies.
Have at it. I'll not bother you any further.
You don't have an answer to that question before you go, do you?
Like I said, we don't come to AI expecting to have to deal with white American-supremacist rants that spring from the diseased lower layers of one member's brain. When he acts up, as he often does, several object and speak up against him, directed at him. They are doing the right thing speaking up, in this case so the Swiss readership knows that this clown is the exception around here.
"Prevent fascism"—we're already there is my point. Just ask the Iraqis or Afghans. We're trying to dismantle it. I don't have any use for violence, since that's the origin of the problem, but I am in favor of somehow waking up the Apple ][s of the world to the joys of global conviviality without hostility.
I'm sure the moderators of the site will be able to address many of those concerns for you.
I believe some of the reactions that I observed were a little stronger than just 'speaking up' but I understand how you feel. However, try to keep in mind that it does appear to be a minority that share that view.
You could always try engaging in some constructive criticism if you disagree. It's considerably harder to do but may yield more rewarding, or at least different, results.
I don't think he's as bad as you may think he is. Some of his posts I agree with. Some I do not. Some of his posts are in jest. Some are not. But, like all of us, he's a product of different experiences. I have a pretty wacky concept about 'all of us' which some of you would find interesting. However, some of you would most definitely would not.
Because we're all different.
And we're all here together.
And as we move into this time of high tech and low life, I think we need to refocus our priority on getting to understand one another better.
I heard a phrase quite a few years back which impressed the hell out of me.
It was:
"First become a master of yourself before attempting to become a master of others."
I thought that was pretty cool when I first heard it.
Insanely hard to do, but still pretty cool.
I'm going to give it my best shot.
But now look how a thread about Jony Ive's supposed comments about the state of the watch industry in Switzerland has diverted into 50+ post about whether someone posts troll like comments in multiple threads and gets away with it. Most still posting don't even know what the thread is about anymore.
[IMG]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_RgJGYXaVoEM/SltpVXOe2vI/AAAAAAAABGY/7dkIhJPILAw/s320/Tangina+Barrons3.jpg[/IMG]
http://www.statisticbrain.com/wrist-watch-industry-statistics/
Number of watches sold annually worldwide - 1,200,000,000
Number of Swiss Watches sold annually - 29,200,000
Number of watches produced by China annually - 663,000,000
Number of watches produced by Hong Kong annually - 354,000.000
Average cost of a Swiss watch - $739
Average cost of a China watch - $3
Switzerland watch market share in terms of value - 54 %
Mechanical Watch market share - 77 %
Electronic Watch market share - 23 %
Swatch / Omega annual sales - $8,880,000,000
Rolex annual sales - $4,500,000,000
Swiss watches make 54% of the revenue (Switzerland = ~$23b) with under 3% of the marketshare.
This is the route Apple typically goes with low marketshare, high revenue. Jony Ive wears a Swiss watch himself:
http://www.jaeger-lecoultre.com/US/en/luxury-watches/home-page
You can see how low volume the Swiss market is relative to the entire watch market. The question is could Apple persuade people to avoid buying a Swiss watch and their model instead? I think it would be like them trying to sell coffee to compete with Columbia. They are going up against an identity and brand, not just their manufacturing.
Switzerland is vulnerable though. Apple sells more iPhones per quarter than all of Switzerland sells watches in a year. People like the variety in design with jewellery, Apple would just be one of those designs. It could be argued that a minimalist design may appeal to more people but that could also put people off.
Suffice to say, any high value smart watch sold is a potential lost sale of a Swiss watch. If that number creeps into the tens of million per year, it would be a significant blow to Switzerland's watch market. They have about $700b of other exports though. They can increase their cheese output to go with their increase in whine at the losses in their watch exports.
Apple pulled this off with the phone market by simply doing a better job and they became the luxury brand. It would be impressive if they pulled that off in the watch market with such highly priced watches but I doubt it. Someone turning up at a party wearing a $400 Apple watch isn't going to out-luxury a $5k Omega watch - part of the luxury is the exclusivity of ownership due to the high purchase price.
Apple pulled this off with the phone market by simply doing a better job and they became the luxury brand. It would be impressive if they pulled that off in the watch market with such highly priced watches but I doubt it. Someone turning up at a party wearing a $400 Apple watch isn't going to out-luxury a $5k Omega watch - part of the luxury is the exclusivity of ownership due to the high purchase price.
It isn't meaningful to compare the smartphone market to the high-end watch market.
Before the iPhone, the smartphone market was characterised by mediocrity, and was also an immature market ripe for the picking. The high-end watch market, by contrast, is a mature market characterised by the very highest quality skills, design and materials you could possibly imagine. Whereas a luxury watch is designed to last a lifetime or longer, a smart watch has a lifespan of a few short years.
Interesting point. What if the majority of the iWatch is mechanical, using the latest in MEMS for sensors, power and timekeeping, thus enhancing it's jewelry/style/collectability value? That could open the door to high end versions selling in the $1,000-$3,000 range. Remember, this new designer just hired hasn't designed any "smartwatches" just amazing timepieces.
Have any of his watch designs even been manufactured? A cursory web search turned up only 3D renderings. I didn't see anything actually available for purchase in just a quick look at the first dozen or so results.
There's a world of difference between coming up with a "look" that's appealing and creating a workable design that can be made into an actual functional product. The former doesn't have to accommodate real-world material, space, construction, and cost considerations. Jony knows all about the latter. Does Marc?
Perhaps the rumored iWatch will also have a controller for the rumored Apple Television.
According to his own web site he's one of the most accomplished designers of his generation. And if you can't believe your own web site, I mean, come on...: http://www.marc-newson.com/AboutBiography.aspx?GroupSelected=2&Category=Biography
Thats what I'm thinking too George, but I would add home devices, and computer mouses, to the list of things controlled.