1/3 of that number was sold to old Chinese people lol. When I looked at 19-min video, those Chinese people was sleeping in the trash bags just to make a $100 at most...It broke my heart. Fck the Chinese black market.
$100? Prices on TaoBao (China's ebay) are showing a markup of at least 300%. I bet it's much more than $100.
It would've been 10 Million and 1 if they had more inventory I'm trying to get an unlocked 128 Gb 6, and it's sold out everywhere!
So is anything the 'Chinese Scalpers' did was illegal?
No.
Is it the Chinese community's fault they are well organized and get their sheet together?
No.
So whats the big deal? Why even bring this up?
In Austin the line was 90% White. Do I come here and say those damn White French were scalping because 90% of the line was White and they could not speak a lick of English?
The Chinese black market is well known and discussed in the news. The evidence given by the poster here supports the notion. White French scalping is not a big deal (in terms of volume) so is not important to mention. IF the phone was not launching in Germany, and Germany had a big hankering for iPhones, and lines full of German speaking white people were forming at Apple Stores on launch day, it WOULD be appropriate to bring up and discuss.
Let me put it this way. The fact that they are Chinese as a race is not important. The fact that they are Chinese as in China is a large black market for iPhones, and that being Chinese is a differentiator in being able to target someone as part of that black market, makes the fact that they are Chinese important. It is not a racial thing, but an identifying thing.
Let me give another example that is not racist, but relies on race.
A white guy attacks someone on the street. The police take victim and witness statements. All identify the perpetrator as a white guy. So the news and WANTED alerts all mention the guy is a white guy.
A black guy attacks someone on the street. The police take victim and witness statements. All identify the perpetrator as a black guy. So the news and WANTED alerts all mention the guy is a black guy.
Both of these use race as an important identifying trait, but not because they are racist or trying to make a racial statement. They are factual and factually important to the story so that the police on the street are not arresting the wrong people. In the first case, they would not go around arresting potential suspects who were black, because they know they the perpetrator was not black. In the second case it would be reversed.
This story is the same. The fact that the people in the line were Chinese, and did not speak English for the most part, and they are not in China, but in a country where English is the main language most of the places, and Americans with Chinese ancestors would most likely be speaking English, helps us identify these people as a potential supply side for the Chinese black market. Facts that include race, but are not racial, that lead to reasonable conclusions.
Facts are facts. You're racist...racist against people who couldn't speak English, against those Old Chinese people. What if those are white old americans or young people speaking English well? Would you even mention of "speaking English" in your context? The reporter already targeted those old Chinese people because they think there's no way in hell that those people would be interested in iPhone so much instead some kind of profit.
You're racist...racist against people who couldn't speak English, against those Old Chinese people. What if those are white old americans or young people speaking English well? Would you even mention of "speaking English" in your context? The reporter already targeted those old Chinese people because they think there's no way in hell that those people would be interested in iPhone so much instead some kind of profit.
When you are in an English speaking country, speaking English is not a differentiator that helps you get more information about a situation. No need to mention it. When it is not normal for the area, it is what we call a "clue" and provides more information. Nothing "racist" about it.
ETA: If I were in a line in China, and a bunch of white people speaking English were in line, I would make other conclusions, similar to the ones drawn here about Chinese (depending upon other information, like known existence of an American/UK/Australian black market)
I don't even know what "You're racist...racist against people who couldn't speak English" even means. "Racist" has lost all practical meaning since it is way over used -- usually to shut down conversation or discussion or to try and hammer someone on the head with whom you disagree, even when it has nothing to do with the subject.
Like adding China.. Speeding out checkout wouldn't have made and difference. They would have just sold out on Saturday night instead of Sunday night. They still would have sold everything they could make... 10m.
Having China might have made some difference because presumably some inventory is caught up in shipping which is avoided for China sales.
Apple was smart not to bring a new entry level iPhone out this year. Right now apple will be able to capitalize on their most expensive highest margin new phones.
Next year I think we'll see 4 new phones introduced:
iPhone 6C Mini - 4 inch colorful plastic smartphone with NFC and an A8 for $449
iPhone 6C - 4.7 inch colorful plastic smartphone with NFC and an A8 for $549
iPhone 6S - 4.7 inch metal smartphone with all the latest tech and features $649
iPhone 6S Plus - 5.5 inch metal smartphone with all the latest tech and features$749
Not sure whether Apple will ever go back on screen size to a 4" or less models. It will definitely be a very small niche market to support. I was one of the lucky one to walk into AT&T store after work on the launch day and was able to walk away with a iphone 6 64G. The wait line was not long, but there was at least 3 to 7 wait list for the new iphone for about an hour I spent in the store. The store manager was surprised how many people were asking for the 6 plus models and they had sold out within 15 min in the morning with only about 10 units received. The manager also said that ~50% of the new iphone buyers were asking for the plus models. Surprisingly, there was one lady buying the iphone 5S and that was only person who had bought 5S model on that day, according to the store manager.
It's always good for the consumers to have more options purchasing a product, but normally the companies are hesitant in supporting a niche market in general.
"While our team managed the manufacturing ramp better than ever before, we could have sold many more iPhones with greater supply and we are working hard to fill orders as quickly as possible.”"
So clearly according to him there are supply constraints. And if that's the case how would China have helped? When you only have so many phones available for sale it doesn't matter how many countries are included in the launch. Perhaps it's a good thing China didn't launch right away.
China would have helped because given the exact same amount of supply, it would be sold out 100% with China in the mix. Right now you can still find some 6plus for immediate store pickup. Iphone 6 is available in a lot of stores so it's not fully sold out. My point is that it's not as constraint this year as last year. Last year, if you were not in front of the line, you weren't getting a 5S. This year pretty much everybody got a 6.
Significantly more sell-through, according to Tim Cook. That's because these phones are selling out, whereas last year, the 5C did not.
Gene Munster was qualitatively correct that last year's 9 million did not represent sell-through to the customer... although I wouldn't trust any number he pulls out for it.
I would not be surprised if Apple and China had an agreement that China would use its authority to prevent Apple from offering the 6s in China while allowing Apple to claim China as a preferred country knowing full well that supply would be constrained. If demand had been weaker, then China would have opened the channel to Apple sooner. This way everybody wins.
This comment is dumb. Why wouldn't Apple sell the iPhone in China if it could? China is a big market for Apple.
Significantly more sell-through, according to Tim Cook. That's because these phones are selling out, whereas last year, the 5C did not.
Gene Munster was qualitatively correct that last year's 9 million did not represent sell-through to the customer... although I wouldn't trust any number he pulls out for it.
Gene Munster also claimed an Apple TV set is imminent. Gene can't be correct in any fashion without facts.
I noticed in the press release Cook used the words "sell through". Any significance to this? I don't remember Apple using that phrase before in press releases.
Isn't it obvious? Tim knows that some onlookers may look at 10 million as a slight disappointment, given that it is only 10% higher than last year. Last year's launch was different than any other launch in that the 5C did not sell out, and units sent to third party resellers are always included in the announced total. (If there is broad sell-out, then there is no difference between shipped and sell-through. Which is typical of iPhone launches.) The actual sell through was significantly lower than 9 million, else this year's "sell through" would not have beat last year's "sell through" by a large margin. Tim is making sure that people understand that this year's launch did indeed blow away last year's, in spite of the apparent 10% difference.
As much as you hate Munster for pulling numbers out of the wazoo, you must now admit that he was notionally correct.
This comment is dumb. Why wouldn't Apple sell the iPhone in China if it could? China is a big market for Apple.
Gene Munster also claimed an Apple TV set is imminent. Gene can't be correct in any fashion without facts.
Anybody that checked stock of 5C's at numerous online resellers last year (as did I) knew everything they needed to know to infer that the actual sell-through was much lower than the 9 million figure. I don't care much for Munster's attempts at quantifying it, but he was right in principle. And now you have a quote here from Tim basically saying the same thing. This is what I was trying to say the other day on the other thread, and I even predicted that some analysts would opine that the difference between last year's total and this year's is not large enough. Tim gave this quote to make the comparison apples to apples.
China would have helped because given the exact same amount of supply, it would be sold out 100% with China in the mix. Right now you can still find some 6plus for immediate store pickup. Iphone 6 is available in a lot of stores so it's not fully sold out. My point is that it's not as constraint this year as last year. Last year, if you were not in front of the line, you weren't getting a 5S. This year pretty much everybody got a 6.
Actually, Tim Cook answered that question as well by saying at the beginning of this year that Apple didn't get the 5S/5C mix right.
Had Apple anticipated the demand of the 5S then it would have made more 5S models and less 5C models.
The number given by Apple always includes some channel fill. Last year it was much more (ie. 5C) and this year, much much much less.
[ In other words... Apple sold every iPhone that was available to them at launch. China would not have made a difference. ]
Andre is so right about what he says. I'm always keep an eye on developments and information like what's posted above in the article. Not that it has anything to do with it but Tim Cook looks like a Gremlin.. At any rate I always write about topics like this on my blog at www.zombietechs.com. I think this is going to be another great year for Apple.
Nope, it's organized because they are handing their phones off to a few people, who collects them and stuffs them in bags. They don't even try to hide their organized scalping, as they do it in broad daylight, for all to see.
So you are telling me the news media does not show racial bias? LOL.
And why is it called THE BLACK MARKET? Nothing these Chinese people are doing is ILLEGAL!!!! Anyone can buy and resale a phone. It is not illegal. It is NOT a black market. A black market is selling illegal merchandise or STOLEN merchandise. So again the media is painting the Chinese people in a bad light even though everything they are doing is LEGAL!
And how do you know most of the Chinese people could not speak English? Did someone poll all 2,000 people in line? Or again are they PRE-JUDGING!!! You really think some asked every single Chinese person in line if they could speak English? Probably not. They just heard a bunch of them SPEAKING Mandarin and assumed they only could speak Chinese. Again, PRE JUDGING!!! Literally millions of Chinese Americans can speak Mandarin AND English.
Again its being LAZY and PREJUDICE to assume that 90% of the line were Chinese nationals who buy the phones for immediate resale.
I'm not calling ANYONE here a RACIST. All i said is those comments could be taken as racially charged. All I'm asking is for people to be more aware of the generalizations they are making.
Actually, what they are doing is NOT legal. They are illegally importing the phones into China (read the news articles). The phones have not received Chinese authority approval and the import taxes (since they are coming from outside the country) are not being paid. It is a BLACK MARKET.
There us nothing lazy and prejudicial.
The only people who would take these statements here as being "racially charged" are the people who go out of their way to look for such statements and allow themselves to be offended. I hope you are not one of these people.
Comments
I guess 1 million more is pretty good...
Their record numbers are not increasing at a fast enough record pace. Apple is doomed.
1/3 of that number was sold to old Chinese people lol. When I looked at 19-min video, those Chinese people was sleeping in the trash bags just to make a $100 at most...It broke my heart. Fck the Chinese black market.
$100? Prices on TaoBao (China's ebay) are showing a markup of at least 300%. I bet it's much more than $100.
It would've been 10 Million and 1 if they had more inventory
I'm trying to get an unlocked 128 Gb 6, and it's sold out everywhere!
‘Importance on the world stage’, maybe.
They’d’ve made more.
He speicificly mention Chinese SPEAKING people who could not understand a lick of English. What am I suppose to conclude?
That they’re more likely to be Chinese nationals than Americans.
Some of those details was not neccessary and just paints a picuture that is slightly racist.
This just in: facts are racist.
So is anything the 'Chinese Scalpers' did was illegal?
No.
Is it the Chinese community's fault they are well organized and get their sheet together?
No.
So whats the big deal? Why even bring this up?
In Austin the line was 90% White. Do I come here and say those damn White French were scalping because 90% of the line was White and they could not speak a lick of English?
The Chinese black market is well known and discussed in the news. The evidence given by the poster here supports the notion. White French scalping is not a big deal (in terms of volume) so is not important to mention. IF the phone was not launching in Germany, and Germany had a big hankering for iPhones, and lines full of German speaking white people were forming at Apple Stores on launch day, it WOULD be appropriate to bring up and discuss.
Let me put it this way. The fact that they are Chinese as a race is not important. The fact that they are Chinese as in China is a large black market for iPhones, and that being Chinese is a differentiator in being able to target someone as part of that black market, makes the fact that they are Chinese important. It is not a racial thing, but an identifying thing.
Let me give another example that is not racist, but relies on race.
A white guy attacks someone on the street. The police take victim and witness statements. All identify the perpetrator as a white guy. So the news and WANTED alerts all mention the guy is a white guy.
A black guy attacks someone on the street. The police take victim and witness statements. All identify the perpetrator as a black guy. So the news and WANTED alerts all mention the guy is a black guy.
Both of these use race as an important identifying trait, but not because they are racist or trying to make a racial statement. They are factual and factually important to the story so that the police on the street are not arresting the wrong people. In the first case, they would not go around arresting potential suspects who were black, because they know they the perpetrator was not black. In the second case it would be reversed.
This story is the same. The fact that the people in the line were Chinese, and did not speak English for the most part, and they are not in China, but in a country where English is the main language most of the places, and Americans with Chinese ancestors would most likely be speaking English, helps us identify these people as a potential supply side for the Chinese black market. Facts that include race, but are not racial, that lead to reasonable conclusions.
Hopefully that makes sense.
Facts are facts. You're racist...racist against people who couldn't speak English, against those Old Chinese people. What if those are white old americans or young people speaking English well? Would you even mention of "speaking English" in your context? The reporter already targeted those old Chinese people because they think there's no way in hell that those people would be interested in iPhone so much instead some kind of profit.
no. Has nothing to do with racism. Get a clue.
You're racist...racist against people who couldn't speak English, against those Old Chinese people. What if those are white old americans or young people speaking English well? Would you even mention of "speaking English" in your context? The reporter already targeted those old Chinese people because they think there's no way in hell that those people would be interested in iPhone so much instead some kind of profit.
When you are in an English speaking country, speaking English is not a differentiator that helps you get more information about a situation. No need to mention it. When it is not normal for the area, it is what we call a "clue" and provides more information. Nothing "racist" about it.
ETA: If I were in a line in China, and a bunch of white people speaking English were in line, I would make other conclusions, similar to the ones drawn here about Chinese (depending upon other information, like known existence of an American/UK/Australian black market)
I don't even know what "You're racist...racist against people who couldn't speak English" even means. "Racist" has lost all practical meaning since it is way over used -- usually to shut down conversation or discussion or to try and hammer someone on the head with whom you disagree, even when it has nothing to do with the subject.
You’re completely off your rocker. Completely and utterly bananas.
Having China might have made some difference because presumably some inventory is caught up in shipping which is avoided for China sales.
Apple was smart not to bring a new entry level iPhone out this year. Right now apple will be able to capitalize on their most expensive highest margin new phones.
Next year I think we'll see 4 new phones introduced:
iPhone 6C Mini - 4 inch colorful plastic smartphone with NFC and an A8 for $449
iPhone 6C - 4.7 inch colorful plastic smartphone with NFC and an A8 for $549
iPhone 6S - 4.7 inch metal smartphone with all the latest tech and features $649
iPhone 6S Plus - 5.5 inch metal smartphone with all the latest tech and features$749
Not sure whether Apple will ever go back on screen size to a 4" or less models. It will definitely be a very small niche market to support. I was one of the lucky one to walk into AT&T store after work on the launch day and was able to walk away with a iphone 6 64G. The wait line was not long, but there was at least 3 to 7 wait list for the new iphone for about an hour I spent in the store. The store manager was surprised how many people were asking for the 6 plus models and they had sold out within 15 min in the morning with only about 10 units received. The manager also said that ~50% of the new iphone buyers were asking for the plus models. Surprisingly, there was one lady buying the iphone 5S and that was only person who had bought 5S model on that day, according to the store manager.
It's always good for the consumers to have more options purchasing a product, but normally the companies are hesitant in supporting a niche market in general.
Here's what Tim Cook said in the press release:
"While our team managed the manufacturing ramp better than ever before, we could have sold many more iPhones with greater supply and we are working hard to fill orders as quickly as possible.”"
So clearly according to him there are supply constraints. And if that's the case how would China have helped? When you only have so many phones available for sale it doesn't matter how many countries are included in the launch. Perhaps it's a good thing China didn't launch right away.
China would have helped because given the exact same amount of supply, it would be sold out 100% with China in the mix. Right now you can still find some 6plus for immediate store pickup. Iphone 6 is available in a lot of stores so it's not fully sold out. My point is that it's not as constraint this year as last year. Last year, if you were not in front of the line, you weren't getting a 5S. This year pretty much everybody got a 6.Significantly more sell-through, according to Tim Cook. That's because these phones are selling out, whereas last year, the 5C did not.
Gene Munster was qualitatively correct that last year's 9 million did not represent sell-through to the customer... although I wouldn't trust any number he pulls out for it.
Good point although they overnight the shipments so they probably would have only added another 500k.
This comment is dumb. Why wouldn't Apple sell the iPhone in China if it could? China is a big market for Apple.
Gene Munster also claimed an Apple TV set is imminent. Gene can't be correct in any fashion without facts.
I noticed in the press release Cook used the words "sell through". Any significance to this? I don't remember Apple using that phrase before in press releases.
Isn't it obvious? Tim knows that some onlookers may look at 10 million as a slight disappointment, given that it is only 10% higher than last year. Last year's launch was different than any other launch in that the 5C did not sell out, and units sent to third party resellers are always included in the announced total. (If there is broad sell-out, then there is no difference between shipped and sell-through. Which is typical of iPhone launches.) The actual sell through was significantly lower than 9 million, else this year's "sell through" would not have beat last year's "sell through" by a large margin. Tim is making sure that people understand that this year's launch did indeed blow away last year's, in spite of the apparent 10% difference.
As much as you hate Munster for pulling numbers out of the wazoo, you must now admit that he was notionally correct.
This comment is dumb. Why wouldn't Apple sell the iPhone in China if it could? China is a big market for Apple.
Gene Munster also claimed an Apple TV set is imminent. Gene can't be correct in any fashion without facts.
Anybody that checked stock of 5C's at numerous online resellers last year (as did I) knew everything they needed to know to infer that the actual sell-through was much lower than the 9 million figure. I don't care much for Munster's attempts at quantifying it, but he was right in principle. And now you have a quote here from Tim basically saying the same thing. This is what I was trying to say the other day on the other thread, and I even predicted that some analysts would opine that the difference between last year's total and this year's is not large enough. Tim gave this quote to make the comparison apples to apples.
China would have helped because given the exact same amount of supply, it would be sold out 100% with China in the mix. Right now you can still find some 6plus for immediate store pickup. Iphone 6 is available in a lot of stores so it's not fully sold out. My point is that it's not as constraint this year as last year. Last year, if you were not in front of the line, you weren't getting a 5S. This year pretty much everybody got a 6.
Actually, Tim Cook answered that question as well by saying at the beginning of this year that Apple didn't get the 5S/5C mix right.
Had Apple anticipated the demand of the 5S then it would have made more 5S models and less 5C models.
The number given by Apple always includes some channel fill. Last year it was much more (ie. 5C) and this year, much much much less.
[ In other words... Apple sold every iPhone that was available to them at launch. China would not have made a difference. ]
Andre is so right about what he says. I'm always keep an eye on developments and information like what's posted above in the article. Not that it has anything to do with it but Tim Cook looks like a Gremlin.. At any rate I always write about topics like this on my blog at www.zombietechs.com. I think this is going to be another great year for Apple.
Nope, it's organized because they are handing their phones off to a few people, who collects them and stuffs them in bags. They don't even try to hide their organized scalping, as they do it in broad daylight, for all to see.
I remember how bad it was with the iPad 2.
So you are telling me the news media does not show racial bias? LOL.
And why is it called THE BLACK MARKET? Nothing these Chinese people are doing is ILLEGAL!!!! Anyone can buy and resale a phone. It is not illegal. It is NOT a black market. A black market is selling illegal merchandise or STOLEN merchandise. So again the media is painting the Chinese people in a bad light even though everything they are doing is LEGAL!
And how do you know most of the Chinese people could not speak English? Did someone poll all 2,000 people in line? Or again are they PRE-JUDGING!!! You really think some asked every single Chinese person in line if they could speak English? Probably not. They just heard a bunch of them SPEAKING Mandarin and assumed they only could speak Chinese. Again, PRE JUDGING!!! Literally millions of Chinese Americans can speak Mandarin AND English.
Again its being LAZY and PREJUDICE to assume that 90% of the line were Chinese nationals who buy the phones for immediate resale.
I'm not calling ANYONE here a RACIST. All i said is those comments could be taken as racially charged. All I'm asking is for people to be more aware of the generalizations they are making.
Actually, what they are doing is NOT legal. They are illegally importing the phones into China (read the news articles). The phones have not received Chinese authority approval and the import taxes (since they are coming from outside the country) are not being paid. It is a BLACK MARKET.
There us nothing lazy and prejudicial.
The only people who would take these statements here as being "racially charged" are the people who go out of their way to look for such statements and allow themselves to be offended. I hope you are not one of these people.