The problem with Google Wallet is it does not have TouchID. Having to enter a passcode for Google wallet to open your phone and to pay is more work than swiping a credit card.
You can enter a passcode instead of TouchID with ?Pay as well. Some people prefer this. Some people actually have trouble with TouchID reading their fingerprints consistently. It's not a major issue, compared to digging around one's purse, pulling out a wallet and finding the right card, not to mention producing ID. And if you think next years Google phone's won't have Touch ID, then I've got some swampland to sell you in Florida.
You can enter a passcode instead of TouchID with ?Pay as well. Some people prefer this. Some people actually have trouble with TouchID reading their fingerprints consistently. It's not a major issue, compared to digging around one's purse, pulling out a wallet and finding the right card, not to mention producing ID. And if you think next years Google phone's won't have Touch ID, then I've got some swampland to sell you in Florida.
If their fingerprint sensor is as 'good' as the Samsung ones, I'm not worried. Apple buying Authentec really hurt everyone else's chances.
4-PIN in public is the worst implementation for "secured" method. What's the point of using PIN that everyone can see lol. Also, cellular signal needed for authentication from the cloud and always-on NFC suck. Google wallet is still half baked product unless it has biometric verification.
My wife and I have both had our pin number details stolen from using a card to pay at petrol pumps.
With our backs to a car park someone was sitting watching with a telephoto lens recording the button presses.
It is very awkward to cover a numberpad at both sides and press the keys at the same time.
It's absolutely for that reason. Most users of any platform see a list of features, tally it up in their head, and make a decision to buy. A lot of the features sit there in the "I'll have to remember to try that" category. Then they maybe remember one day, and they're not at a store that supports it, and they just drop it until Apple gets NFC in the news.
I think the vast majority of Android device buyers didn't even look at the feature list, they just looked at the price. And yes, I've seen this conversation happen a number of times at those mobile phone kiosks in malls:
Clerk: "We have the new iPhone available"
Customer: "Is it free?"
Clerk: "No, it's $199 when you buy it on a 2-year contract"
Customer: "If it's not free, I'm not interested"
Obviously the features make no difference. They'll probably just be using it for voice calls and text messaging. Which explains why so few have used Google Wallet, and why web traffic from Android devices is much lower on average than it is for iPhones.
Apple could license their secure tokenization and "secure element", but they have no reason to do so.
in fact, it's the reason Apple is winning (e.g. holding huge market share in a field of hundreds of device manufacturers). Apple's implementation is what Computer/Network Security geeks have been pining for for years. End to end trust built in, not added on.
I remember sitting through days of DoD Orange book training, and in the end, the instructor said, "Unless you can establish trust from the fingertip to the Ferrite (disk drive), all attempts to introduce transactional security is at best detective." And went on talking about welding keyboard cables to PCs in Faraday cages and vampire proof network cabling to a mainframe that virtualized every connection.
1986, people. 28 years ago, we were clamoring for an end to end solution.
Only today, with Apple controlling a huge part of the equation (the hardware construction, the OS integration, the Application deployment process, the PKI for device, OS, App, human, and the bank identity management, 2 factor 'welded' into the credential gathering process (as opposed to bolted on) are we at a point where transactional security can have a reasonable (>99.999%) chance of being trusted (yes, that 10,000 untrusted (not compromised, just untrusted) transactions per billion, but that's probably way down from what the current system [think about it, checks and swipe card plastic... If the current system is charging 2-3 % in 'management fees,' AND, the primary control point (merchant) is still on the hook for card fraud loss, one can assume that the 'trust' is on the order of 99.0% or less])
Apple has a golden goose here. Google. Not so much. They aren't welding stuff together at the factory.
And the follow-on to this is the 'welded' SIMcard. If you can get to a universal SIM, then you've eliminated pretty much the last point of manual interception. and you add at least one more 9 to that trust score.
Just read the latest report about CNN election coverage presenter using Microsoft Surface as iPad stands, it's hilarious. No doubt, we should see AI reporting soon.
I kinda wish Apple had invented a proprietary standard for use of ?Pay besides NFC.
That way it'll lock out piggybackers and shut fandroids up who think Giggle Pay and ?Pay are the same thing.
I believe that's what iBeacon was supposed to be. Whatever happened to iBeacon anyways? Is it still being worked on or has it been scrapped?
“GUYS GUYS OUR MORTAL ENEMIES ARE SUCCEEDING. QUICK, USE A FEATURE ON OUR PHONES WE’VE NEVER USED BEFORE”
“Why are they our mortal enemies, again?”
“BECAUSE THEY NO LIKE US NO MORE”
Honestly, I bet it’s increasing in use due to the media spreading knowledge of its existence wider thanks to the NFC ban at some stores. Thanks again, Apple, for making Android users aware that their phones can actually do something!
Thanks Apple for there even being an Android phone ..err . well thanks Eric for stealing it anyway.
I think the vast majority of Android device buyers didn't even look at the feature list, they just looked at the price. And yes, I've seen this conversation happen a number of times at those mobile phone kiosks in malls:
Clerk: "We have the new iPhone available"
Customer: "Is it free?"
Clerk: "No, it's $199 when you buy it on a 2-year contract"
Customer: "If it's not free, I'm not interested"
Obviously the features make no difference. They'll probably just be using it for voice calls and text messaging. Which explains why so few have used Google Wallet, and why web traffic from Android devices is much lower on average than it is for iPhones.
That's very true too. Of course, the "free" contract phones don't generally have NFC anyway.
My wife and I have both had our pin number details stolen from using a card to pay at petrol pumps.
With our backs to a car park someone was sitting watching with a telephoto lens recording the button presses.
It is very awkward to cover a numberpad at both sides and press the keys at the same time.
ApplePay for all petrol stations please.
I've never had my PIN swiped, but so far this year I had someone get ahold of my account to buy stuff at a resort, and then I'd shopped at Home Depot so my CU replaced my card as a precaution...I'm so ready to get ApplePay.
Quote:
Originally Posted by auxio
I think the vast majority of Android device buyers didn't even look at the feature list, they just looked at the price. And yes, I've seen this conversation happen a number of times at those mobile phone kiosks in malls:
Clerk: "We have the new iPhone available"
Customer: "Is it free?"
Clerk: "No, it's $199 when you buy it on a 2-year contract"
Customer: "If it's not free, I'm not interested"
Obviously the features make no difference. They'll probably just be using it for voice calls and text messaging. Which explains why so few have used Google Wallet, and why web traffic from Android devices is much lower on average than it is for iPhones.
Pretty much. I think if there were a larger number of dumbphones available for sale, rather than just a slightly enhanced version of the same four phones the carriers sold the year before, Android sales would be lower.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DroidFTW
I believe that's what iBeacon was supposed to be. Whatever happened to iBeacon anyways? Is it still being worked on or has it been scrapped?
iBeacon is still around, that's more of a retailer thing though.
One thing I realize: no complaints or issues with Apple Pay so far. Otherwise fandroids would've jumped all over these instead of only said " we've been using "IT" for 3 years" but not realized their "IT" was not the same.
Apple uses the new industry-standard tokenization, which is why it works at standard NFC terminals. The "secure element" is in the standards-compliant NFC chip that Apple gets from NXP.
And this is why it's a shame that Apple did not offer a "dongle" for the iPhone 4-5S to allow ?Pay to be used on older devices. Basically Apple is sacrificing over two years and billions of transactions waiting for older iPhone users to upgrade to a compatible phone. Meanwhile, they are leaving the door open for Samsung and other's to include more convenient TouchID-type systems in their phones, and a much larger installed user-base to embrace Google Wallet, due to Apple's success and marketing (as usual), not to mention Google to make sure their solution is hack-proof -- because we all know one big hack and it will set back mobile payments years (including Apple's).
Apple needed to roll out ?Pay as widely as they possibly could, and who knows maybe they still will. ?Pay can be used with a PIN instead of TouchID, so perhaps they will offer, or license, a simple solution like the Incipio iPhone NFC CashWrap case offered for the Isis/SoftCard payment system, at a fraction of the ?Watch. Anyone who says Apple doesn't want to take over mobile payments is fooling themselves. That's like saying Apple doesn't want to take over the digital music business, or the mobile phone market. There's no reason for a company like Apple to go into business if they don't expect to dominate a market. Whether they do or not is another matter, but there's a lot of money on the table in mobile payments, and if Apple doesn't want it, you can bet their shareholders do! Leaving out the majority of their installed user baser base to launch a new business when their competition is already poised to take advantage of that same system is a miscalculation in my opinion.
I kinda wish Apple had invented a proprietary standard for use of ?Pay besides NFC.
That way it'll lock out piggybackers and shut fandroids up who think Giggle Pay and ?Pay are the same thing.
If Apple did that, it would not have worked as you have to go with a open standard that was already in place (NFC). Otherwise, you'd be asking every retailer to pay for a separate POS attachment for every POS they have. The cost would be way too big and retailers would not support it.
This is why I'm so happy Apple finally got on board with NFC and did it right. The adoption of NFC payments are the future. I love using NFC payments at every chance I get.
License it? Apple has no exclusive on a 'secure element". Heck when Google Wallet first rolled out it used the same type of "secure element" on the phone itself as Apple currently has, a separate discrete chip.
As you are no doubt already aware, Apple does have a patent that protects their entire Apple Pay system.
That's exactly what I don't want to see. If everyone is selfish and creates their own proprietary closed system, we're going to have a confusing mess of fragmented retailers. Some will have ApplePay terminals, some will have Google, some Paypass, some CurrentC, etc. And it will never take off to the point where you can use your device in most places. Standards are what help solve the chicken-and-egg problem of store terminals and payment devices.
You are exactly correct. Standards, like paying with Visa/MasterCard, is what it needs to be for fast adoption and success.
Pretty much. I think if there were a larger number of dumbphones available for sale, rather than just a slightly enhanced version of the same four phones the carriers sold the year before, Android sales would be lower.
That would be an interesting thing to test: get ahold of all those old candybar & flip phones which are destined for a landfill anyways, partner with a carrier, and actually offer them at a rebate when you buy them on contract. Would be interesting to see how much of a dent that would make in Android marketshare...
I think the vast majority of Android device buyers didn't even look at the feature list, they just looked at the price. And yes, I've seen this conversation happen a number of times those mobile phone kiosks in malls:
Clerk: "We have the new iPhone available"
Customer: "Is it free?"
Clerk: "No, it's $199 when you buy it on a 2-year contract"
Customer: "If it's not free, I'm not interested"
Obviously the features make no difference. They'll probably just be using it for voice calls and text messaging. Which explains why so few have used Google Wallet, and why web traffic from Android devices is much lower on average than it is for iPhones.
App usage is important, but it's the big 5 (photo/instagram/pinterest, Facebook, email, eBay, amazon, twitter), that drive smartphone usage.
hehe, you pulled that post in time. I was just about to reply with: now divide the overall per-OS web traffic by the number of phones out there running Android vs iOS and my point is still valid.
Comments
You can enter a passcode instead of TouchID with ?Pay as well. Some people prefer this. Some people actually have trouble with TouchID reading their fingerprints consistently. It's not a major issue, compared to digging around one's purse, pulling out a wallet and finding the right card, not to mention producing ID. And if you think next years Google phone's won't have Touch ID, then I've got some swampland to sell you in Florida.
If their fingerprint sensor is as 'good' as the Samsung ones, I'm not worried. Apple buying Authentec really hurt everyone else's chances.
My wife and I have both had our pin number details stolen from using a card to pay at petrol pumps.
With our backs to a car park someone was sitting watching with a telephoto lens recording the button presses.
It is very awkward to cover a numberpad at both sides and press the keys at the same time.
ApplePay for all petrol stations please.
It's absolutely for that reason. Most users of any platform see a list of features, tally it up in their head, and make a decision to buy. A lot of the features sit there in the "I'll have to remember to try that" category. Then they maybe remember one day, and they're not at a store that supports it, and they just drop it until Apple gets NFC in the news.
I think the vast majority of Android device buyers didn't even look at the feature list, they just looked at the price. And yes, I've seen this conversation happen a number of times at those mobile phone kiosks in malls:
Clerk: "We have the new iPhone available"
Customer: "Is it free?"
Clerk: "No, it's $199 when you buy it on a 2-year contract"
Customer: "If it's not free, I'm not interested"
Obviously the features make no difference. They'll probably just be using it for voice calls and text messaging. Which explains why so few have used Google Wallet, and why web traffic from Android devices is much lower on average than it is for iPhones.
Apple could license their secure tokenization and "secure element", but they have no reason to do so.
in fact, it's the reason Apple is winning (e.g. holding huge market share in a field of hundreds of device manufacturers). Apple's implementation is what Computer/Network Security geeks have been pining for for years. End to end trust built in, not added on.
I remember sitting through days of DoD Orange book training, and in the end, the instructor said, "Unless you can establish trust from the fingertip to the Ferrite (disk drive), all attempts to introduce transactional security is at best detective." And went on talking about welding keyboard cables to PCs in Faraday cages and vampire proof network cabling to a mainframe that virtualized every connection.
1986, people. 28 years ago, we were clamoring for an end to end solution.
Only today, with Apple controlling a huge part of the equation (the hardware construction, the OS integration, the Application deployment process, the PKI for device, OS, App, human, and the bank identity management, 2 factor 'welded' into the credential gathering process (as opposed to bolted on) are we at a point where transactional security can have a reasonable (>99.999%) chance of being trusted (yes, that 10,000 untrusted (not compromised, just untrusted) transactions per billion, but that's probably way down from what the current system [think about it, checks and swipe card plastic... If the current system is charging 2-3 % in 'management fees,' AND, the primary control point (merchant) is still on the hook for card fraud loss, one can assume that the 'trust' is on the order of 99.0% or less])
Apple has a golden goose here. Google. Not so much. They aren't welding stuff together at the factory.
And the follow-on to this is the 'welded' SIMcard. If you can get to a universal SIM, then you've eliminated pretty much the last point of manual interception. and you add at least one more 9 to that trust score.
Just read the latest report about CNN election coverage presenter using Microsoft Surface as iPad stands, it's hilarious. No doubt, we should see AI reporting soon.
Thanks Apple for there even being an Android phone ..err . well thanks Eric for stealing it anyway.
I think the vast majority of Android device buyers didn't even look at the feature list, they just looked at the price. And yes, I've seen this conversation happen a number of times at those mobile phone kiosks in malls:
Clerk: "We have the new iPhone available"
Customer: "Is it free?"
Clerk: "No, it's $199 when you buy it on a 2-year contract"
Customer: "If it's not free, I'm not interested"
Obviously the features make no difference. They'll probably just be using it for voice calls and text messaging. Which explains why so few have used Google Wallet, and why web traffic from Android devices is much lower on average than it is for iPhones.
That's very true too. Of course, the "free" contract phones don't generally have NFC anyway.
My wife and I have both had our pin number details stolen from using a card to pay at petrol pumps.
With our backs to a car park someone was sitting watching with a telephoto lens recording the button presses.
It is very awkward to cover a numberpad at both sides and press the keys at the same time.
ApplePay for all petrol stations please.
I've never had my PIN swiped, but so far this year I had someone get ahold of my account to buy stuff at a resort, and then I'd shopped at Home Depot so my CU replaced my card as a precaution...I'm so ready to get ApplePay.
I think the vast majority of Android device buyers didn't even look at the feature list, they just looked at the price. And yes, I've seen this conversation happen a number of times at those mobile phone kiosks in malls:
Clerk: "We have the new iPhone available"
Customer: "Is it free?"
Clerk: "No, it's $199 when you buy it on a 2-year contract"
Customer: "If it's not free, I'm not interested"
Obviously the features make no difference. They'll probably just be using it for voice calls and text messaging. Which explains why so few have used Google Wallet, and why web traffic from Android devices is much lower on average than it is for iPhones.
Pretty much. I think if there were a larger number of dumbphones available for sale, rather than just a slightly enhanced version of the same four phones the carriers sold the year before, Android sales would be lower.
I believe that's what iBeacon was supposed to be. Whatever happened to iBeacon anyways? Is it still being worked on or has it been scrapped?
iBeacon is still around, that's more of a retailer thing though.
Apple needed to roll out ?Pay as widely as they possibly could, and who knows maybe they still will. ?Pay can be used with a PIN instead of TouchID, so perhaps they will offer, or license, a simple solution like the Incipio iPhone NFC CashWrap case offered for the Isis/SoftCard payment system, at a fraction of the ?Watch. Anyone who says Apple doesn't want to take over mobile payments is fooling themselves. That's like saying Apple doesn't want to take over the digital music business, or the mobile phone market. There's no reason for a company like Apple to go into business if they don't expect to dominate a market. Whether they do or not is another matter, but there's a lot of money on the table in mobile payments, and if Apple doesn't want it, you can bet their shareholders do! Leaving out the majority of their installed user baser base to launch a new business when their competition is already poised to take advantage of that same system is a miscalculation in my opinion.
I kinda wish Apple had invented a proprietary standard for use of ?Pay besides NFC.
That way it'll lock out piggybackers and shut fandroids up who think Giggle Pay and ?Pay are the same thing.
If Apple did that, it would not have worked as you have to go with a open standard that was already in place (NFC). Otherwise, you'd be asking every retailer to pay for a separate POS attachment for every POS they have. The cost would be way too big and retailers would not support it.
This is why I'm so happy Apple finally got on board with NFC and did it right. The adoption of NFC payments are the future. I love using NFC payments at every chance I get.
As you are no doubt already aware, Apple does have a patent that protects their entire Apple Pay system.
That's exactly what I don't want to see. If everyone is selfish and creates their own proprietary closed system, we're going to have a confusing mess of fragmented retailers. Some will have ApplePay terminals, some will have Google, some Paypass, some CurrentC, etc. And it will never take off to the point where you can use your device in most places. Standards are what help solve the chicken-and-egg problem of store terminals and payment devices.
You are exactly correct. Standards, like paying with Visa/MasterCard, is what it needs to be for fast adoption and success.
Pretty much. I think if there were a larger number of dumbphones available for sale, rather than just a slightly enhanced version of the same four phones the carriers sold the year before, Android sales would be lower.
That would be an interesting thing to test: get ahold of all those old candybar & flip phones which are destined for a landfill anyways, partner with a carrier, and actually offer them at a rebate when you buy them on contract. Would be interesting to see how much of a dent that would make in Android marketshare...
I think the vast majority of Android device buyers didn't even look at the feature list, they just looked at the price. And yes, I've seen this conversation happen a number of times those mobile phone kiosks in malls:
Clerk: "We have the new iPhone available"
Customer: "Is it free?"
Clerk: "No, it's $199 when you buy it on a 2-year contract"
Customer: "If it's not free, I'm not interested"
Obviously the features make no difference. They'll probably just be using it for voice calls and text messaging. Which explains why so few have used Google Wallet, and why web traffic from Android devices is much lower on average than it is for iPhones.
App usage is important, but it's the big 5 (photo/instagram/pinterest, Facebook, email, eBay, amazon, twitter), that drive smartphone usage.
Otherwise your on point.
The tide raises all ships
edit
hehe, you pulled that post in time. I was just about to reply with: now divide the overall per-OS web traffic by the number of phones out there running Android vs iOS and my point is still valid.