I don't believe the GB versus GiB issue is at all relevant to this discussion. Apple advertises a 16 GB device but only 12-13 GB is available for end-user storage. That's the complaint.
To clarify, Apple advertise 16 GB on the packaging.
iOS reports 12.6 or 12.2 GB free (using the figures from the Which? image), but is actually using the GiB (1024^3 bytes) unit.
12.6 * 1024^3 = 13.53 GB (in proper GB, meaning 10^9 bytes)
12.2 * 1024^3 = 13.10 GB
So, in comparison with advertised capacity, the two iPhones from the Which article are presenting between 2.37 and 2.90 GB (or 2.2 and 2.7 GiB) less user-accessible storage.
So it's a little bit better than your figures say, but not a great deal. Hopefully that helps get past the BASE2 BASE10 tangent.
As a separate comment, I think blaming the complaint for not including this detail is a bit spurious. Apple use GB on both, and if that lack of precision is contributing to a lack of understanding then that should be criticised too.
And also, just because Apple are not alone in doing this doesn't mean they shouldn't be in the firing line. If the case is won, the precedent is set, and other companies fall in line. In contrast, it's very hard to bring consumer action against an entire industry.
Well, I have to admit that they (APPLE) aren't the same company they were 5 years ago - it seems that all they try to do now is FORCE YOU TO USE iCLOUD by any means necessary (they are removing iPhoto and Aperture and said the cloud version will be better!!?? Shouldn't we have a choice stay on your hard drive or risk your data to come "CLOUDY WEATHER"???) as I fell victim to this trap on the opening sale date of the iPhone 6+ (which I hated so much I returned it back to Apple - I felt like I was using a shoebox talking to people and it was just too big) but I have an iphone 4 yes an iphone 4 for the past 3 years I think and guess what I'm still using iOS version 6.1 and it works for me my iphone 6 is on order but my point is I only have 350 MB's left (megabytes) and yes my phone still works fine - but while I was at the apple store on iPhone 6 launch I just wanted to see if I get my iphone 6+ at the store and cancel my online preorder and this cashier chick just grabs my 32GB iphone with memory maxed out and starts doing an iCloud backup and I was like what are you doing??? And she tells me oh you said the reason you can't trade in the phone to get a discount was because you haven't backed up your data so it will all be on iCloud and I was LIVID!!! I told that stupid bitch I never use iCLOUD and I never want to use it - and how the hell are you "backing up my data if iCloud is only 5GB and my iphone is 32GB????? And her answer was oh it will back up the important data we could delete all the apps and you can just re download from the App Store when u get the new iphone - the backup never completed and she tells me oh just reconnect to your wifi network when you get home and guess what when I got home I had to upgrade my free iCloud to the 20GB version and pull out my credit card --- and on top of that I lost like 3,000 contacts because of what she did - thank god I use MYBACKUPPRO CONTACTS and had like at least the majority of them except for the last year!!!!!! I am starting to dislike apple and not trust them any longer!!! I'm done ranting!!! HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYBODY!!!!!
Where are they getting their figures from? Why would iOS take up more space on an iPod than an iPhone? And are these people going to sue every other manufacturer since they're even worse than Apple in this regard?
Its a good point that actually came up on this site around a year ago. Odd that all the people that were saying Samsung should be sued over it are now taking the opposite side.
I think Samsung got out of it because the device was still highly operational and much more storage was available via the SD cards.
I would guess if the shaking the Apple tree bears fruit they may go after Samsung next unless the key distinguisher is that the device becomes near unusable and it looks like they are claiming it is designed to force iCloud usage. With Apple you don't have the SD card way out. The 8gb iPhone they offered I believe can't even do an OS upgrade unless you remove just about everything on it.
Apple advertises a 16 GB device... because it has 16GB of storage in the device. That's why they say it.
Now... should Apple start advertising how much end-user storage it has? Maybe... but then everyone else should too.
We're talking about an entire industry that has this "problem"... not just Apple.
If I bought a 128GB Surface Pro 3... can I store 128GB of my own files? Of course not. So... Microsoft should be sued too, right?
And EVERY other manufacturer.
Look... I understand the complaint... but it's not the first time we've heard this. And it's certainly not an Apple problem.
Companies advertise the total amount of storage in the device. If it has 16GB of storage... that's what they say.
They never say how much storage is available to the end-user. Ever.
And I just checked the box (iPhone 6 Plus) and the label even includes the caution "1 GB = 1 billion bytes,actual formatted capacity less." (my emphasis).
128g 6+ is losing almost 3% time to get paid ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
There sure are a lot of knee-jerk, nitpicky responses to Malax's very reasonable, and considered comments on this. He did not say (at least in the first few that I read) that the lawsuit has a lot of merit, but rather, that companies should do a better job of being more transparent about the way they represent this.
I couldn't agree more.
Many people aspire to own Apple products, but not all can afford it. For many not so well-off people, getting the basic model -- so that they can experience an Apple product -- is fairly common. They've saved up for it, or are given it as a gift.
OS bloat has been a serious issue in the past, as we well know. Remember the 'Wintel conpsiracy' theories and the way we all used to criticize Microsoft for stuff like this? Taking up roughly one-fifth of the capacity is, indeed, a problem. But it needn't be, if it's simply represented as such. Don't advertise them as 16, 32, 64 etc, but rather, 12, 28, 60 (or whatever), so that people end up getting more than they actually paid for (and an amount that is not too far off from the truth).
That's really not too much to ask. Change the game, Apple.
(As an aside, this is a non-issue personally, since I usually buy the max capacity on most Apple products).
Honestly at this stage in the game, Apple shouldn't even be offering 8GB as the "Free" base model, 16GB should be the "Free" base model. The Apps have grown in size to accommodate so many different resolutions, and iOS is becoming a pig for storage space.
I will say though, when you are buying any smartphone or tablet with NO external storage options, then you have to ask "Is this storage capacity going to meet my needs"? Simply put, if you carry music, take a lot of photo's or video then a 8/16GB is NOT FOR YOU. Get the 32/64/128GB option and move on.
That said I do feel Apple tries to obfuscate the actual storage capacity and that has been point of contention used by MANY Apple users against Android phones. Its also one of the reasons I would never buy the minimum storage, and would never get a 16/32GB phone unless it offered external storage (when I used Android phones).
The Apps have grown in size to accommodate so many different resolutions, and iOS is becoming a pig for storage space.
To what end? I just checked the first few paid App Store apps. They are all Universal and take up very little space compared to the OS and default apps. Sure, there are large apps, but I don't think the extra resolutions support are breaking any walls in storage capabilities that for App Store apps that 8GB can't handle. IOW, you don't have any space on your device because of large apps it's from apps that would be large regardless of the number of the resolutions they support.
question; the iPhone, iPods (i would assume iPads) can be used simply as an external mobile hard drive. Do you have the option of completely removing the IOS that why the capacity for use is the full 16 GB?
To what end? I just checked the first few paid App Store apps. They are all Universal and take up very little space compared to the OS and default apps. Sure, there are large apps, but I don't think the extra resolutions support are breaking any walls in storage capabilities that for App Store apps that 8GB can't handle. IOW, you don't have any space on your device because of large apps it's from apps that would be large regardless of the number of the resolutions they support.
OK I have a dice game on my iPhone (it's called Dice Free). App size is 46.9MB but 'Documents & Data' is 160MB. What the heck is that and how do I get rid of it without deleting and reinstalling the app? The Twitter app I use - Hootiesuite - has an app size of 35.4MB but 'Documents & Data' is 379MB. I have no idea what that is (I'm assuming it's some kind of cached data) and there's no way to get rid of it without deleting and reinstalling the app. It's this 'Documents & Data' stuff that ends up taking up a lot of space with no easy way to reclaim it.
OK I have a dice game on my iPhone (it's called Dice Free). App size is 46.9MB but 'Documents & Data' is 160MB. What the heck is that and how do I get rid of it without deleting and reinstalling the app? The Twitter app I use - Hootiesuite - has an app size of 35.4MB but 'Documents & Data' is 379MB. I have no idea what that is (I'm assuming it's some kind of cached data) and there's no way to get rid of it without deleting and reinstalling the app. It's this 'Documents & Data' stuff that ends up taking up a lot of space with no easy way to reclaim it.
Most of the time it's just sloppy developers if there is an excessive amount of useless data saved without any method for deletion.
This is a little nutty. No phone or computer maker lists the amount of free space at purchase. They list the total space. It has been like this since the beginning of PCs.
Apple is not, and has never been, any computer maker. It has been a game-changer in so many ways in the last 3+ decades, in everything from the product, to services supporting the product, to how it's sold, to how it's produced, to its suppliers, to its advertising, and just about everything else. Much of the industry have copied or followed (or have disappeared trying).
There's no reason Apple can't lead on something as trivial as this.
OK I have a dice game on my iPhone (it's called Dice Free). App size is 46.9MB but 'Documents & Data' is 160MB. What the heck is that and how do I get rid of it without deleting and reinstalling the app? The Twitter app I use - Hootiesuite - has an app size of 35.4MB but 'Documents & Data' is 379MB. I have no idea what that is (I'm assuming it's some kind of cached data) and there's no way to get rid of it without deleting and reinstalling the app. It's this 'Documents & Data' stuff that ends up taking up a lot of space with no easy way to reclaim it.
Most of the time it's just sloppy developers if there is an excessive amount of useless data saved without any method for deletion.
Yet, Apple prides itself on -- and is anal about, as I know from first-hand experience -- curation. If developers are sloppy, then get them to behave or throw them out.
App management on iOS devices (and between the device and the Mac) has become something of a pain, and Apple has to take an axe to it -- but that's another topic.
To clarify, Apple advertise 16 GB on the packaging.
iOS reports 12.6 or 12.2 GB free (using the figures from the Which? image), but is actually using the GiB (1024^3 bytes) unit.
12.6 * 1024^3 = 13.53 GB (in proper GB, meaning 10^9 bytes)
12.2 * 1024^3 = 13.10 GB
So, in comparison with advertised capacity, the two iPhones from the Which article are presenting between 2.37 and 2.90 GB (or 2.2 and 2.7 GiB) less user-accessible storage.
So it's a little bit better than your figures say, but not a great deal. Hopefully that helps get past the BASE2 BASE10 tangent.
As a separate comment, I think blaming the complaint for not including this detail is a bit spurious. Apple use GB on both, and if that lack of precision is contributing to a lack of understanding then that should be criticised too.
And also, just because Apple are not alone in doing this doesn't mean they shouldn't be in the firing line. If the case is won, the precedent is set, and other companies fall in line. In contrast, it's very hard to bring consumer action against an entire industry.
Jesus H. Look at what the company is advertising. Then what the average person thinks. They are running numbers. Keep this argument simple!!!
Yet, Apple prides itself on -- and is anal about, as I know from first-hand experience -- curation. If developers are sloppy, then get them to behave or throw them out.
App management on iOS devices (and between the device and the Mac) has become something of a pain, and Apple has to take an axe to it -- but that's another topic.
There is iCloud which makes dumping Documents and Data files easy, but I would like this to be an even better user experience for customers.
Comments
So how would you state it?
I don't believe the GB versus GiB issue is at all relevant to this discussion. Apple advertises a 16 GB device but only 12-13 GB is available for end-user storage. That's the complaint.
To clarify, Apple advertise 16 GB on the packaging.
iOS reports 12.6 or 12.2 GB free (using the figures from the Which? image), but is actually using the GiB (1024^3 bytes) unit.
12.6 * 1024^3 = 13.53 GB (in proper GB, meaning 10^9 bytes)
12.2 * 1024^3 = 13.10 GB
So, in comparison with advertised capacity, the two iPhones from the Which article are presenting between 2.37 and 2.90 GB (or 2.2 and 2.7 GiB) less user-accessible storage.
So it's a little bit better than your figures say, but not a great deal. Hopefully that helps get past the BASE2 BASE10 tangent.
As a separate comment, I think blaming the complaint for not including this detail is a bit spurious. Apple use GB on both, and if that lack of precision is contributing to a lack of understanding then that should be criticised too.
And also, just because Apple are not alone in doing this doesn't mean they shouldn't be in the firing line. If the case is won, the precedent is set, and other companies fall in line. In contrast, it's very hard to bring consumer action against an entire industry.
I'm done ranting!!! HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYBODY!!!!!
Where are they getting their figures from? Why would iOS take up more space on an iPod than an iPhone? And are these people going to sue every other manufacturer since they're even worse than Apple in this regard?
Its a good point that actually came up on this site around a year ago. Odd that all the people that were saying Samsung should be sued over it are now taking the opposite side.
I think Samsung got out of it because the device was still highly operational and much more storage was available via the SD cards.
I would guess if the shaking the Apple tree bears fruit they may go after Samsung next unless the key distinguisher is that the device becomes near unusable and it looks like they are claiming it is designed to force iCloud usage. With Apple you don't have the SD card way out. The 8gb iPhone they offered I believe can't even do an OS upgrade unless you remove just about everything on it.
Are they? Who are all the people? I'd like to compare their statements between a year ago and today.
It's because they didn't lie about their HW capacity. It has nothing to do with an SD card slot being present or not.
And I just checked the box (iPhone 6 Plus) and the label even includes the caution "1 GB = 1 billion bytes,actual formatted capacity less." (my emphasis).
Ignoring the easy path of simply connecting the phone to a host computer? In which case nothing has to be removed to do an iOS upgrade.
Unless you forgot your iTunes encryption backup code
I couldn't agree more.
Many people aspire to own Apple products, but not all can afford it. For many not so well-off people, getting the basic model -- so that they can experience an Apple product -- is fairly common. They've saved up for it, or are given it as a gift.
OS bloat has been a serious issue in the past, as we well know. Remember the 'Wintel conpsiracy' theories and the way we all used to criticize Microsoft for stuff like this? Taking up roughly one-fifth of the capacity is, indeed, a problem. But it needn't be, if it's simply represented as such. Don't advertise them as 16, 32, 64 etc, but rather, 12, 28, 60 (or whatever), so that people end up getting more than they actually paid for (and an amount that is not too far off from the truth).
That's really not too much to ask. Change the game, Apple.
(As an aside, this is a non-issue personally, since I usually buy the max capacity on most Apple products).
I will say though, when you are buying any smartphone or tablet with NO external storage options, then you have to ask "Is this storage capacity going to meet my needs"? Simply put, if you carry music, take a lot of photo's or video then a 8/16GB is NOT FOR YOU. Get the 32/64/128GB option and move on.
That said I do feel Apple tries to obfuscate the actual storage capacity and that has been point of contention used by MANY Apple users against Android phones. Its also one of the reasons I would never buy the minimum storage, and would never get a 16/32GB phone unless it offered external storage (when I used Android phones).
To what end? I just checked the first few paid App Store apps. They are all Universal and take up very little space compared to the OS and default apps. Sure, there are large apps, but I don't think the extra resolutions support are breaking any walls in storage capabilities that for App Store apps that 8GB can't handle. IOW, you don't have any space on your device because of large apps it's from apps that would be large regardless of the number of the resolutions they support.
question; the iPhone, iPods (i would assume iPads) can be used simply as an external mobile hard drive. Do you have the option of completely removing the IOS that why the capacity for use is the full 16 GB?
OK I have a dice game on my iPhone (it's called Dice Free). App size is 46.9MB but 'Documents & Data' is 160MB. What the heck is that and how do I get rid of it without deleting and reinstalling the app? The Twitter app I use - Hootiesuite - has an app size of 35.4MB but 'Documents & Data' is 379MB. I have no idea what that is (I'm assuming it's some kind of cached data) and there's no way to get rid of it without deleting and reinstalling the app. It's this 'Documents & Data' stuff that ends up taking up a lot of space with no easy way to reclaim it.
Most of the time it's just sloppy developers if there is an excessive amount of useless data saved without any method for deletion.
Here are some options for you…
Apple is not, and has never been, any computer maker. It has been a game-changer in so many ways in the last 3+ decades, in everything from the product, to services supporting the product, to how it's sold, to how it's produced, to its suppliers, to its advertising, and just about everything else. Much of the industry have copied or followed (or have disappeared trying).
There's no reason Apple can't lead on something as trivial as this.
OK I have a dice game on my iPhone (it's called Dice Free). App size is 46.9MB but 'Documents & Data' is 160MB. What the heck is that and how do I get rid of it without deleting and reinstalling the app? The Twitter app I use - Hootiesuite - has an app size of 35.4MB but 'Documents & Data' is 379MB. I have no idea what that is (I'm assuming it's some kind of cached data) and there's no way to get rid of it without deleting and reinstalling the app. It's this 'Documents & Data' stuff that ends up taking up a lot of space with no easy way to reclaim it.
Most of the time it's just sloppy developers if there is an excessive amount of useless data saved without any method for deletion.
Here are some options for you…
Yet, Apple prides itself on -- and is anal about, as I know from first-hand experience -- curation. If developers are sloppy, then get them to behave or throw them out.
App management on iOS devices (and between the device and the Mac) has become something of a pain, and Apple has to take an axe to it -- but that's another topic.
To clarify, Apple advertise 16 GB on the packaging.
iOS reports 12.6 or 12.2 GB free (using the figures from the Which? image), but is actually using the GiB (1024^3 bytes) unit.
12.6 * 1024^3 = 13.53 GB (in proper GB, meaning 10^9 bytes)
12.2 * 1024^3 = 13.10 GB
So, in comparison with advertised capacity, the two iPhones from the Which article are presenting between 2.37 and 2.90 GB (or 2.2 and 2.7 GiB) less user-accessible storage.
So it's a little bit better than your figures say, but not a great deal. Hopefully that helps get past the BASE2 BASE10 tangent.
As a separate comment, I think blaming the complaint for not including this detail is a bit spurious. Apple use GB on both, and if that lack of precision is contributing to a lack of understanding then that should be criticised too.
And also, just because Apple are not alone in doing this doesn't mean they shouldn't be in the firing line. If the case is won, the precedent is set, and other companies fall in line. In contrast, it's very hard to bring consumer action against an entire industry.
Jesus H. Look at what the company is advertising. Then what the average person thinks. They are running numbers. Keep this argument simple!!!
There is iCloud which makes dumping Documents and Data files easy, but I would like this to be an even better user experience for customers.