We are at war, and I don't have any have issues with the govt spying on certain people within our borders, be they citizens, foreign nationals or illegals. They are all fair game in my opinion.
The funny part is that all of the liberals who hated Bush, thought that things would change when Obama got elected.
At what point has the USA NOT been at war in the last thirty years?? Proclaiming special war powers leads to needing constant war, and sure enough, that's what we have.
You are exactly what the fear mongers dream of. You blindly abandon due process and justify it with "war time". You justify and blindly follow the very same things that are killing your so-called freedom.
The patriot act is unconstitutional garbage to justify government overreach and enable new forms of authoritarian (and corporate) power above and beyond what the average citizen has access to. It is exactly what those who claim to love freedom and democracy should be fighting against. The fact that Obama didn't repeal the damn thing, and STRENGTHENED it, shows who's side he is on (the side of entrenched power, not people).
At this point I'm bailing out of this thread again because of how utterly repellently ignorant and nationalistically blind you are. Don't bother with another one of your verbal assaults on me because I won't be here to read it. I hope everyone else does the same. Arguing with you is just rage inducing and pointless. You're so assured of your own righteousness that there's zero way into that brick wall head. But you've demonstrated your gobsmacking arrogance here for years; I guess you're a loved feature of the AI forums and it wouldn't be the same bizarre place without you.
Yes, the US govt or the CIA or whoever should send out a hit squad and either assasinate him or bring him back to face justice, whichever is most convenient. That's what I believe. It doesn't matter which country the rat is currently hiding in.
Is there something wrong with you? You don't mind the government spying on everything we say and do, and it's ok to just go kill a guy that exposed that fact? Do you work in the NSA or something? How do these ideas not eat you up?
Perhaps if Snowden had sued the NSA instead of stolen classified documents from them, the situation and his legal status would be different.
True but would it or he have made it to trial?
Sure. It would have been the mother of all class action suits since it basically would have included everyone in the US as well as many US allies. With a high profile law team and the right media coverage Snowden could have walked away with millions plus a book and movie deal in addition to exposing the NSA wrongdoings and putting an end to their illegal activities. Whistleblowing is good. He just went about it the completely wrong way.
Sure. It would have been the mother of all class action suits since it basically would have included everyone in the US as well as many US allies. With a high profile law team and the right media coverage Snowden could have walked away with millions plus a book and movie deal in addition to exposing the NSA wrongdoings and putting an end to their illegal activities. Whistleblowing is good. He just went about it the completely wrong way.
Excellent point. He could have and maybe should have. I'm sure there could have been a way to accomplish that and ensure his safety all the while getting his message accross. Again another disclaimer, I didn't fare so well last time I mentioned that, is there whistleblower protection for issues such as this?
Perhaps you could relax and read for understanding what I'm saying instead of getting all emotional and irrational. He brings up interesting points that should be investigated. Your ability to read between the lines to paint me a certain way is off putting and shows your ignorance with lack of understanding. Shall I go on
Because this "sentence", capped with "shall I go on" (seriously!), is a sign of vulcan detachment...
Calling my neutral and reasoned arguments irrational doesn't make them so by the way.
Arguing the points is how rationality is normally determined, not by simple declaration...
Anyway, life is short. I'll just ignore you. Have a good day.
If I were him, I wouldn't be touching any phones at all.
I believe that somebody needs to bust a cap in his ass. He's a traitor, a rat, and he'll eventually get what's coming to him, when tried and convicted.
Indeed. He must be a traitor and a rat because he revealed that our government was spying on all of us, subverting the constitution, and lying about it. You are too kind calling him a traitor and rat. I contend he is a "dangerous element." We will not be safe until we have greater national security and can ensure the government has the unfettered capability of covertly monitoring every one of us, as in the way China or Russia aspires. Thank God for the NSA's good spirited, benevolent, and and essential secret eavesdropping on all of us. They care about us. God bless America!
Oh, one other thing. Surprises me he's using any cellular device, but he might know what he's doing.
Because this "sentence", capped with "shall I go on" (seriously!), is a sign of vulcan detachment...
Calling my neutral and reasoned arguments irrational doesn't make them so by the way.
Arguing the points is how rationality is normally determined, not by simple declaration...
Anyway, life is short. I'll just ignore you. Have a good day.
Because this "sentence", capped with "shall I go on" (seriously!), is a sign of vulcan detachment...
Calling my neutral and reasoned arguments irrational doesn't make them so by the way.
Arguing the points is how rationality is normally determined, not by simple declaration...
Anyway, life is short. I'll just ignore you. Have a good day.
It wasn't your argument rather than your framing of me a certain way because I asked why you are willing to look past the 90%.
The definition of unemployed is someone who is ready to work and has actively sought work within the last 4 weeks.
People who are neither employed nor unemployed are not part of the workforce.
There are a substantial number of people who are under employed and are not part of the 6% figure. There is no question that part time and freelance positions are increasing in the US as they provide economic advantages for corporations. The State Department only has figures based on unemployment filings for benefits or employment counseling. 6% is accurate as long as you understand the definitions of the terms.
I see what you are saying, but the way the Labor Board gets their statistics is really flawed. You have to count the millions of workers who lost their jobs and are ready to work. Just because they haven't looked within the last 4 weeks doesn't change the fact they are part of the huge work force unemployed who are ready to work. Just about every economist doesn't look at the "U6" figure.
The definition of unemployed is someone who is ready to work and has actively sought work within the last 4 weeks.
People who are neither employed nor unemployed are not part of the workforce.
There are a substantial number of people who are under employed and are not part of the 6% figure. There is no question that part time and freelance positions are increasing in the US as they provide economic advantages for corporations. The Labor Department only has figures based on unemployment filings for benefits or employment counseling. 6% is accurate as long as you understand the definitions of the terms.
The unemployment rate also does not factor in either employed or unemployed illegal aliens or other people who work only for undeclared cash.
They play with that number so much. Sometimes it includes those in the military, and other times it excludes them
You have to count the millions of workers who lost their jobs and are ready to work.
As Steve Jobs said…"Those jobs aren't coming back."
Waiting for some corporation to move to town and offer easy hiring is like waiting to win the lottery. If you are not looking for work, you are not part of the workforce. It is sad that someone who used to have a good paying factory job now can't even get a minimum wage job. But, it not so much that they can't get a job, as it is that they don't want a minimum wage or part time job. There are thousands of both illegal and legal minorities who are willing to work part time for minimum wage. It may not technically be a living wage but they make it work, living 5 people in a 1 bedroom apartment, use only public transportation, and eat a lot of rice and beans.
Who to point the finger at for the loss of the good paying US blue collar jobs is an ongoing debate.
It's because of his concern for his country that he did what he did. What he exposed to the world has already had a massive effect. We should hope the next president adheres to the Constitution better than the previous several have.
You really need to be able to make a distinction between "whistleblower" (revealing the NSA might be spying on American citizens, which is against the law) and traitor (everything else Snowden released). As I said earlier, ignoring the fact that he even violated the law in his whistleblower role(not using established avenues of disclosure), even if we pardon that act, the rest of his disclosures are clearly illegal and in the category of traitor.
It wasn't your argument rather than your framing of me a certain way because I asked why you are willing to look past the 90%.
Being a whistleblower on the unconstutional bits, I'm all for it. 100%.
He'd have to do jail time probably, but there's even a good chance he'd get out before he's old.
But, for the rest of what was released, people, could have already known if they actually cared to inform themselves on their own government.
The 90% that was constitional (the provisions for them were mostly already in the patriot act) (and still are) should be handled the usual way, through people actually caring what their government is doing and voting in large numbers to change things.
The fact people are not doing that, not voting against it, must mean they tacitly agree with the patriot acts and all what it means. They want absolute security but close their eyes to what it entails.. Willful denial.
People cannot stand and be shocked about what the NSA is legally doing when a lot of what they're doing could be easily surmised. There's a whole show based on pervasive surveillance (Person of Interest), which was devellopped and launched even before Snowden's releases.
People like to rail against the government when they get exactly the government they voted for (or didn't vote for).
Either they put up (Vote) or shut up. They can't have it both ways. Considering the low voter turnout, most people like to whine about the big bad government than do anything about it; the worse option possible.
PS: I'm not even talking about the whole slew of things he revealed that relates to normal legal CIA and NSA operations. In this case, he deserves a whole heep of prison time.
They play with that number so much. Sometimes it includes those in the military, and other times it excludes them
I wasn't aware of that but then I'm not an economist however it would probably depend on whether or not you have an agenda for arguing that the real rate of unemployment is either higher or lower than the stated rate.
But just like there are two sides to every argument, there are two sides to the equation that determines the basic unemployment rate.
unemployed = registered for unemployment
total workforce = taxpayers + unemployed
Percent unemployed = (unemployed ÷ total workforce) * 100
Sure there is going to be a fairly large margin of error because there are so many different individual situations in the grey area.
I think members of the military are filing earnings, so it seems to me they should be counted as employed.
Comments
At what point has the USA NOT been at war in the last thirty years?? Proclaiming special war powers leads to needing constant war, and sure enough, that's what we have.
You are exactly what the fear mongers dream of. You blindly abandon due process and justify it with "war time". You justify and blindly follow the very same things that are killing your so-called freedom.
The patriot act is unconstitutional garbage to justify government overreach and enable new forms of authoritarian (and corporate) power above and beyond what the average citizen has access to. It is exactly what those who claim to love freedom and democracy should be fighting against. The fact that Obama didn't repeal the damn thing, and STRENGTHENED it, shows who's side he is on (the side of entrenched power, not people).
At this point I'm bailing out of this thread again because of how utterly repellently ignorant and nationalistically blind you are. Don't bother with another one of your verbal assaults on me because I won't be here to read it. I hope everyone else does the same. Arguing with you is just rage inducing and pointless. You're so assured of your own righteousness that there's zero way into that brick wall head. But you've demonstrated your gobsmacking arrogance here for years; I guess you're a loved feature of the AI forums and it wouldn't be the same bizarre place without you.
Originally Posted by Apple ][
Every free thinking, intelligent person can decide for themselves what is ultimately right and what is wrong.
....
Even if true, it doesn't make his actions right, in my opinion. It's not for him to decide.
Priceless!
Yes, the US govt or the CIA or whoever should send out a hit squad and either assasinate him or bring him back to face justice, whichever is most convenient. That's what I believe. It doesn't matter which country the rat is currently hiding in.
Is there something wrong with you? You don't mind the government spying on everything we say and do, and it's ok to just go kill a guy that exposed that fact? Do you work in the NSA or something? How do these ideas not eat you up?
Perhaps if Snowden had sued the NSA instead of stolen classified documents from them, the situation and his legal status would be different.
True but would it or he have made it to trial?
Sure. It would have been the mother of all class action suits since it basically would have included everyone in the US as well as many US allies. With a high profile law team and the right media coverage Snowden could have walked away with millions plus a book and movie deal in addition to exposing the NSA wrongdoings and putting an end to their illegal activities. Whistleblowing is good. He just went about it the completely wrong way.
Excellent point. He could have and maybe should have. I'm sure there could have been a way to accomplish that and ensure his safety all the while getting his message accross. Again another disclaimer, I didn't fare so well last time I mentioned that, is there whistleblower protection for issues such as this?
Priceless!
He has no convictions. If he did, he wouldn't have fled the country like a fugitive. If he believed in what he was doing, he shouldn't have run.
Perhaps you could relax and read for understanding what I'm saying instead of getting all emotional and irrational. He brings up interesting points that should be investigated. Your ability to read between the lines to paint me a certain way is off putting and shows your ignorance with lack of understanding. Shall I go on
Because this "sentence", capped with "shall I go on" (seriously!), is a sign of vulcan detachment...
Calling my neutral and reasoned arguments irrational doesn't make them so by the way.
Arguing the points is how rationality is normally determined, not by simple declaration...
Anyway, life is short. I'll just ignore you. Have a good day.
If I were him, I wouldn't be touching any phones at all.
I believe that somebody needs to bust a cap in his ass. He's a traitor, a rat, and he'll eventually get what's coming to him, when tried and convicted.
Indeed. He must be a traitor and a rat because he revealed that our government was spying on all of us, subverting the constitution, and lying about it. You are too kind calling him a traitor and rat. I contend he is a "dangerous element." We will not be safe until we have greater national security and can ensure the government has the unfettered capability of covertly monitoring every one of us, as in the way China or Russia aspires. Thank God for the NSA's good spirited, benevolent, and and essential secret eavesdropping on all of us. They care about us. God bless America!
Oh, one other thing. Surprises me he's using any cellular device, but he might know what he's doing.
Absolutely.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whistleblower_Protection_Act
How up to date is Snowden's information?
Things have changed a lot, since he last had access to this type of stuff.
Cool thanks.
It wasn't your argument rather than your framing of me a certain way because I asked why you are willing to look past the 90%.
The definition of unemployed is someone who is ready to work and has actively sought work within the last 4 weeks.
People who are neither employed nor unemployed are not part of the workforce.
There are a substantial number of people who are under employed and are not part of the 6% figure. There is no question that part time and freelance positions are increasing in the US as they provide economic advantages for corporations. The State Department only has figures based on unemployment filings for benefits or employment counseling. 6% is accurate as long as you understand the definitions of the terms.
I see what you are saying, but the way the Labor Board gets their statistics is really flawed. You have to count the millions of workers who lost their jobs and are ready to work. Just because they haven't looked within the last 4 weeks doesn't change the fact they are part of the huge work force unemployed who are ready to work. Just about every economist doesn't look at the "U6" figure.
They play with that number so much. Sometimes it includes those in the military, and other times it excludes them
As Steve Jobs said…"Those jobs aren't coming back."
Waiting for some corporation to move to town and offer easy hiring is like waiting to win the lottery. If you are not looking for work, you are not part of the workforce. It is sad that someone who used to have a good paying factory job now can't even get a minimum wage job. But, it not so much that they can't get a job, as it is that they don't want a minimum wage or part time job. There are thousands of both illegal and legal minorities who are willing to work part time for minimum wage. It may not technically be a living wage but they make it work, living 5 people in a 1 bedroom apartment, use only public transportation, and eat a lot of rice and beans.
Who to point the finger at for the loss of the good paying US blue collar jobs is an ongoing debate.
What I meant was, collecting data on all people, which is what Snowden is accusing the NSA of doing.
Even if true, it doesn't make his actions right, in my opinion. It's not for him to decide.
That was not my question. I see you avoided directly answering a simple question on where the line should be drawn for NSA's actions.
I think I know what your honest answer is, however.
It's because of his concern for his country that he did what he did. What he exposed to the world has already had a massive effect. We should hope the next president adheres to the Constitution better than the previous several have.
You really need to be able to make a distinction between "whistleblower" (revealing the NSA might be spying on American citizens, which is against the law) and traitor (everything else Snowden released). As I said earlier, ignoring the fact that he even violated the law in his whistleblower role(not using established avenues of disclosure), even if we pardon that act, the rest of his disclosures are clearly illegal and in the category of traitor.
It wasn't your argument rather than your framing of me a certain way because I asked why you are willing to look past the 90%.
Being a whistleblower on the unconstutional bits, I'm all for it. 100%.
He'd have to do jail time probably, but there's even a good chance he'd get out before he's old.
But, for the rest of what was released, people, could have already known if they actually cared to inform themselves on their own government.
The 90% that was constitional (the provisions for them were mostly already in the patriot act) (and still are) should be handled the usual way, through people actually caring what their government is doing and voting in large numbers to change things.
The fact people are not doing that, not voting against it, must mean they tacitly agree with the patriot acts and all what it means. They want absolute security but close their eyes to what it entails.. Willful denial.
People cannot stand and be shocked about what the NSA is legally doing when a lot of what they're doing could be easily surmised. There's a whole show based on pervasive surveillance (Person of Interest), which was devellopped and launched even before Snowden's releases.
People like to rail against the government when they get exactly the government they voted for (or didn't vote for).
Either they put up (Vote) or shut up. They can't have it both ways. Considering the low voter turnout, most people like to whine about the big bad government than do anything about it; the worse option possible.
PS: I'm not even talking about the whole slew of things he revealed that relates to normal legal CIA and NSA operations. In this case, he deserves a whole heep of prison time.
I wasn't aware of that but then I'm not an economist however it would probably depend on whether or not you have an agenda for arguing that the real rate of unemployment is either higher or lower than the stated rate.
But just like there are two sides to every argument, there are two sides to the equation that determines the basic unemployment rate.
unemployed = registered for unemployment
total workforce = taxpayers + unemployed
Percent unemployed = (unemployed ÷ total workforce) * 100
Sure there is going to be a fairly large margin of error because there are so many different individual situations in the grey area.
I think members of the military are filing earnings, so it seems to me they should be counted as employed.
It is called a newspaper.