Apple Pay's success has rivals scrambling to catch up, could make PayPal an acquisition target

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  • Reply 41 of 146
    cnocbuicnocbui Posts: 3,613member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mpantone View Post

     

    That is a meaningless statistic.

     

    Not everyone buys stuff from a bricks-and-mortar retailer on Black Friday. Not every retailer accepts Apple Pay.




    That statistic is for physically present transactions where the retailer accepted ?Pay and the customer had a phone capable of making such a payment - which is why I specified "technically could have." http://blog.infoscout.co/apple-pays-black-friday-by-the-numbers/

  • Reply 42 of 146
    Apple should gobble up Paypal. Also ApplePay is retail and online...some of you are indicating it is just for retail...you are wrong.
  • Reply 43 of 146
    cnocbui wrote: »
    How are Apple Pay and Paypal competitors?  One is geared towards online transactions via websites like eBay while the other is chiefly for making contactless in-person payments where there is a capacity to do so.

    You can make on-line purchases via Apple Pay. For example:
    • in app purchases - including Target who doesn't, yet, support in-store Apple Pay
    • iTunes Store
    • Prepay takeout orders made on-line, e.g. Panera Bread
    • StubHub for event tickets ...

    The point is, that Apple Pay payments are secure -- PayPal are not!
  • Reply 44 of 146
    mpantonempantone Posts: 2,104member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mnbob1 View Post

     



    Google Wallet wasn't secure enough for financial companies to jump on board. Implementation across multiple phone vendors and mostly the carriers created a huge problem for how it was activated. Users had to go through multiple steps to use it and many retailers didn't accept it. A large percentage of Android users are not high credit card users like Apple iPhone users.




    I don't really understand the point of Google Wallet, and yes, I have a Google Wallet account as well as one of their physical prepaid cards.

     

    To load up money into your Google Wallet, you either need to transfer directly from a checking account (no transfer fee) or transfer from a credit card (2.9% transfer fee paid to Google). Either way, when you use Google Wallet, it's a prepaid debit card.

     

    When you buy something with Google Wallet, you don't build credit nor to you enjoy the better services and benefits of a high-quality credit card (better security, extended warranty, merchant dispute, travel insurance, new purchase protection, antifraud surveillance, etc.). I suppose there are some targeted promos and tie-ins with loyalty programs, but an standard transaction gives zero benefits.

     

    The physical card is just a prepaid MasterCard debit card.

     

    The people who would benefit the most from Google Wallet are those with just a checking account and want a free debit card (no activation fee, no monthly/annual fee, no ATM balance inquiry fees, no ATM withdrawal fees).

  • Reply 45 of 146
    dcgoodcgoo Posts: 281member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post

     

    How are Apple Pay and Paypal competitors?  One is geared towards online transactions via websites like eBay while the other is chiefly for making contactless in-person payments where there is a capacity to do so.




    Apple Pay has a very nice on-line payment utility, but unless you are shopping with your phone to pay with touch-ID, it is never presented. 

  • Reply 46 of 146
    cnocbuicnocbui Posts: 3,613member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post





    You can make on-line purchases via Apple Pay. For example:

    • in app purchases - including Target who doesn't, yet, support in-store Apple Pay

    • iTunes Store

    • Prepay takeout orders made on-line, e.g. Panera Bread

    • StubHub for event tickets ...


    The point is, that Apple Pay payments are secure -- PayPal are not!



    I have quite some personal experience in making many hundreds of payments via Paypal over some years and I am failing to see in what way they are insecure.  Could you expound on this point please.

  • Reply 47 of 146
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,686member
    cnocbui wrote: »

    I have quite some personal experience in making many hundreds of payments via Paypal over some years and I am failing to see in what way they are insecure.  Could you expound on this point please.

    It's not trustworthy in the non tech sense of the word.
  • Reply 48 of 146
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,686member
    dcgoo wrote: »

    Apple Pay has a very nice on-line payment utility, but unless you are shopping with your phone to pay with touch-ID, it is never presented. 

    The uptake of that API has been surprisingly low.

    And why aren't more people using touch id to log into their app?
  • Reply 49 of 146
    cnocbuicnocbui Posts: 3,613member

    Having used Paypal to retrieve payments from dodgy vendors on several occasions, I would disagree.

  • Reply 50 of 146
    cali wrote: »
    Are you serious?!!

    NO SECURITY BENEFITS?

    I'm not even gonna waste my time there.

    Google fans think Apple Pay is the same thing as Google Wallet.
  • Reply 51 of 146
    Tokenization prevents hackers from obtaining useful information that could be used to impersonate you in other financial transactions, including but not limited to, making purchases and accessing your accounts.
  • Reply 52 of 146
    zoetmbzoetmb Posts: 2,655member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dachar View Post

     

    In the UK it has just been reported that for the first time cashless payments have exceeded traditional methods with notes and coins. Most of the cashless payments will  be with chip and pin credit and debit cards that we have had for years. I have yet to see anyone use contactless payments in the UK but many terminals now offer this if you want. It will be interesting to compare the growth of Apple Pay when it comes to the UK against what has happened in the USA where it seems chip and pin is not so popular. 




    Chip and PIN has not been popular in the U.S., the former because the retailers didn't want to spend the money on new terminals and the latter because it's an extra step in the process (although debit card users have to enter a PIN today), but that's all changing because after the security breaches at Target, Home Depot and other retailers, the credit card companies have told the retailers they have to change their terminals by some upcoming date (I think it's this year) or face higher transaction fees.    One credit card company has already sent me a new card with a chip embedded.   The upside of the retailers having to install new terminals is that they'll also accept contactless payment.   

     

    From my own perspective, Apple Pay is a "nice to have", but there really isn't all that much difference between taking out my phone to pay and taking out a credit or debit card to pay.   It would be one thing if Apple Pay was so ubiquitous that a credit and/or debit card wasn't necessary to carry at all, but I don't see that being the case for years, if ever.   And even if it was, I might be worried that if my phone battery died, I wouldn't be able to get cash or charge anything.   What it might do is enable me to reduce the number of cards I carry from four to two. 

  • Reply 53 of 146
    mnbob1mnbob1 Posts: 269member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TechProd1gy View Post



    Apple should gobble up Paypal. Also ApplePay is retail and online...some of you are indicating it is just for retail...you are wrong.



    Apple would have no interest in buying PayPal. Apple Pay most likely is going to target the areas that PayPal covers without the burden of integrating two different systems. Also can you say "antitrust".

  • Reply 54 of 146
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mnbob1 View Post

     



    Apple would have no interest in buying PayPal. Apple Pay most likely is going to target the areas that PayPal covers without the burden of integrating two different systems. Also can you say "antitrust".




    Yeah good point.

  • Reply 55 of 146
    jbdragonjbdragon Posts: 2,311member
    mpantone wrote: »
    That is a meaningless statistic.

    Not everyone buys stuff from a bricks-and-mortar retailer on Black Friday. Not every retailer accepts Apple Pay.

    Not only that, the number of iPhone's at that point inn time was tiny!!! The iPhone 6 came out in October right? So around 20-25 million iPhones with touchid at that point out of how many millions of smart phones in the world?. Even now, there's only around 70 million. Apple sold 74.5 million, how many of those were inner iPhone's without TouchID. It's going to take a couple years for any really numbers as older iPhone's are replaced with new ones with TouchID. Minding at how much it was used after one month of release is completely silly.
  • Reply 56 of 146
    evilutionevilution Posts: 1,399member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post

     



    ?Pay has no security benefits over the existing payment methods so I suspect only the ostentatious will bother.


    Wrong

     

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post

     

    Yes, I am serious.  What security benefit does touch ID have over entering a PIN for a transaction?


    What!

     

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post

     

    I presume encryption is used.  Without the PIN, the card is unusable.

     

    Tokeneisation would seem to provide a benefit in terms of not divulging marketing and identification information to the retailer, but I am not sure that occurs at present over here as I have never received anything unsolicited in the mail, for example, that might indicate my details were passed on to a retailer in a chip and PIN transaction.


    You can't see an issue with the security of a PIN? A 4 digit number that, not only can people visually watch you input if they so wish, there are thousands of hacked card readers that copy the card number and log your PIN. The card number can then be cloned to a blank card, the stolen PIN used and stuff either bought or money taken from the account from an ATM.

     

    Yes, the transactions are encrypted but only after leaving the terminal which is why they are attacking the terminals directly.

     

    Tokenization uses a different number every time, like a rolling code. There is no actual user data sent. Even if the scammer got this data, once it has been used, it's useless to them. There is no useable log in codes like the PIN as the data means nothing until it is sent to Apple for verification. The data that confirms the fingerprint is encrypted into the token before it leaves the phone.

     

    The token number is 19 digits and used once. So you have a 9,999,999,999,999,999,999 chance of getting the right token code before it changes.

  • Reply 57 of 146
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,686member
    jbdragon wrote: »
    Not only that, the number of iPhone's at that point inn time was tiny!!! The iPhone 6 came out in October right? So around 20-25 million iPhones with touchid at that point out of how many millions of smart phones in the world?. Even now, there's only around 70 million. Apple sold 74.5 million, how many of those were inner iPhone's without TouchID. It's going to take a couple years for any really numbers as older iPhone's are replaced with new ones with TouchID. Minding at how much it was used after one month of release is completely silly.

    The 5s has touchID
  • Reply 58 of 146
    cnocbui wrote: »
    You can make on-line purchases via Apple Pay. For example:
    • in app purchases - including Target who doesn't, yet, support in-store Apple Pay
    • iTunes Store
    • Prepay takeout orders made on-line, e.g. Panera Bread
    • StubHub for event tickets ...


    The point is, that Apple Pay payments are secure -- PayPal are not!


    I have quite some personal experience in making many hundreds of payments via Paypal over some years and I am failing to see in what way they are insecure.  Could you expound on this point please.

    I seldom use PayPal -- only as a last resort! Maybe 1-2 times per year. Yet I have had mistaken transactions which took weeks to reverse.

    With Apple Pay the only people who have your credit card data are you and your bank. You purchase things with a perishable, one-time token which has no information about you, your bank account or your credit information ... it is useless to hackers.

    With PayPal, and online sites like Amazon, they save (or you repetitively, optionally enter) your credit card info, including security code ...

    Bam! each of these sites is potentially a trapdoor to hackers!

    Token != potential Credit Card data hack ... What could be more obvious.

    Because of 2% CashBack bonus and one month free float, I use DiscoverCard * wherever I can, including online. Last year, the card data was compromised 3 times -- resulting in card replacement. I had several recurring payments scheduled for DiscoverCard -- when the card was reissued (with a different number) -- some of the recurring payments bounced -- resulting in return charges, etc. I have cancelled all the recurring payments with DiscoverCard -- less costly and less convenient.

    * DiscoverCard is dragging their feet implementing Apple Pay. Our household is migrating our credit card usage to other, Apple Pay-enabled cards. These have less CashBack bonuses, but are much more convenient. There will [soon] come a tipping point where convenience, privacy and security outweigh the CashBack benefits.
  • Reply 59 of 146
    jbdragon wrote: »
    mpantone wrote: »
    That is a meaningless statistic.

    Not everyone buys stuff from a bricks-and-mortar retailer on Black Friday. Not every retailer accepts Apple Pay.

    Not only that, the number of iPhone's at that point inn time was tiny!!! The iPhone 6 came out in October right? So around 20-25 million iPhones with touchid at that point out of how many millions of smart phones in the world?. Even now, there's only around 70 million. Apple sold 74.5 million, how many of those were inner iPhone's without TouchID. It's going to take a couple years for any really numbers as older iPhone's are replaced with new ones with TouchID. Minding at how much it was used after one month of release is completely silly.

    The Apple Watch will enable Apple Pay on iPhone 5, 5C and 5S -- so that could greatly increase the Apple Pay-capable iPhone population.

    In our household, the adults have iPhone 6 and iPhone 6 Plus. The kids have iPhone 5 or better,

    I would like to see the Apple Pay-Bank arrangement expanded as follows:
    • the Adult card owner sets a sub-account limit (reserve) for each child 13-17
    • the children can use their iPhone or Apple Watch to purchase up to their individual limit
    • assumably the children will be rigorously caused settle their credit bill with allowance, chores or other earnings

    This would help educate the children on the benefits of credit and how to avoid the pitfalls of credit misuse!
  • Reply 60 of 146
    solipsismysolipsismy Posts: 5,099member
    The Apple Watch will enable Apple Pay on iPhone 5, 5C and 5S -- so that could greatly increase the Apple Pay-capable iPhone population.

    That's not accurate. There is no NFC on the iPhone 5, 5C or 5S so it will not ENABLE ?Pay on those devices.

    Those devices, however, can be used to setup ?Pay on ?Watch, which you will authenticate via a PIN every time you place it on your wrist.
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