1) Don't count TB out just yet. There are currently plenty of higher-end uses that will likely be around for years to come.
Oh, I'm sure that, like FireWire, it'll hang around for a while. However, this is the beginning of the end. If TB couldn't attract more than a tiny number of manufacturers to make peripherals when it was standard equipment on the entire Mac lineup, it's certainly not going to do any better now that it's destined to be found exclusively on high-end machines that hardly anyone has. Thunderbolt was never able to achieve a level of success even comparable to what FireWire had, and that's sad.
2) A month ago there was no Mac that was shipping with USB-C.
That's true. However, the writing's been on the wall for years for those who have been paying attention.
3) Actually, a lot longer than a month ago and multiple times, I presented a scenario where Apple could eschew TB in their entry-level models in favour of either USB 3.0, or USB 3.0 + DP. I also suggested that USB-C could replace Lightning and even presented multiple examples of Apple renouncing their homegrown technology in favour of a standard one when the standard exceeded their own attempts. I don't recall being called a troll, but I also make an attempt not to state my hypothesis as facts.
There used to be an army of Thunderbolt crusaders on this site. They'd have an answer for everything. TB devices are obscenely expensive? That's just because it's new (except that USB stuff pretty quickly became cheaper than what it replaced, and providing documentation to prove that is of course ignored). USB is extremely entrenched and hard to move public support away from? So was ADB (except that it wasn't, it was a relatively obscure Mac-only bus that hardly anyone in 1998 cared about). USB is good enough for most application? No, the average Joe consumer is certain to care about how many Gb/s a computer interface is capable of pushing out (which, ). Thunderbolt requires your display to be on the end of the chain, and way too many of the TB devices out there don't have a passthrough port, ending the chain and preventing you from attaching a monitor at all since you only have one port and the interface doesn't support hubs? Boy, did I get slammed for that one. Someone trotted out a huge, bulky CalDigit Thunderbolt dock that weighed like a pound and a half, cost 200 freaking dollars, and had about a billion features that were completely unnecessary if all you needed was to hook up a freaking monitor, but it had an HDMI port so they went "problem solved!" Any objections to the massive price, the bulk, or the general impractical nature of the thing just resulted in "You're moving the goal posts!" Ugh.
Now granted, the new MacBook kind of still has that last problem, but 1) $70 is still a lot better than $200, and 2) since this is USB, there's almost assuredly going to be third-party alternatives from places like Monoprice before too long that will charge far less. I'm hoping that someone releases one with a DisplayPort on it instead of HDMI since that's what USB 3.1 is using under the hood anyway and since it's just overall better, but that's for another day.
2nd USB-C port should be exactly opposite side of first one so, users can connect their power supply cord to either side USB-C connector and also, when one usb-c port is in use for power, other can be used for external connectivity. Small USB connector hardware is cheap. This is no brainer. Not sure Apple being so good why miss this.
Sounds fine and dandy, but running something like power from both sides of the computer is not trivial, so no, not a no-brainer. These are really sophisticated machines, it's not just the price of a connector.
Sure, I'd love to have power available on both sides, and it would also give the ability to use a thumb drive or external HD without unplugging the damn computer from its power source. But I could get the latter needs met with 2 USB-C ports on the same side, and that, from a hardware design view, is a MUCH easier ask.
I do think that when the next-gen pro models come out we'll see multiple USB-C ports. This is not a pro-class machine, and therefore not for me, but it will serve the needs of some portion of the population. If there are enough complaints from "typical" users, I'm sure things will change.
But similarly to the situation with the crappy glossy screens Apple uses now, if enough people don't care, then that's the way it will be. Less SKUs are easier to manage. Sadly, I'm not expecting that to change in the near future. The displays are slowly getting better year by year, and my only hope is that they get "better enough" that I don't need to build some crappy frankenstein hackintosh when my current laptop finally dies. As of today, Apple doesn't make a laptop that I can use on an everyday basis. I can complain all I want, but if a majority of the market doesn't care and/or tolerates what's there now, that's what it'll be. In the meantime I'm milking this machine as long as humanly possible. Hopefully the next-gen pro laptops will have more USB ports available and we won't have a similar situation.
Apple will not replace the Lightning port with USB-C. Given that Apple is constantly going smaller/thinner, why would they switch to a port that's larger? Furthermore, Lightning is still much more versatile than USB-C as it can be dynamically configured based on the type of device that connects to it.
Because the EU is about to require that all personal electronic devices use a USB connector for charging.
I've found that all decent usb cables indicate which way is up using the usb symbol on the top side. Devices with usb also have that side up when the connector is horizontal.
It's quite a bit less than 50%. it's about a 50% chance that you'll have it facing the correct way the first time, but due to the design it's often that people try it, find that it doesn't work so they flip it 180° thinking that it might work then. If that doesn't work they may blindly flip it again or look to see how the "duck fack" is oriented and then plug it in, with or with having to flip it 180°.
After reading this thread I really have to wonder if anybody here is actually a capable tech oriented person. You should be able to identify which side is up with 100% reliability on a USB connector. The standard specifies where the USB icon is to be stamped on the connector housing. Even if that isn't there you can identify by looking at the metal housing.
Honestly I'm only half way through this thread and frankly it is the biggest bunch of bull crap I've read in a long time on AppleInsider. There is something inherently wrong with people that need to expend all this effort to plug in a USB connector.
People like you are why automobiles now have an arrow near the fuel gauge indicating which side the fuel filler door is on.
Fine, you can ignore all the evidence that others have given, and you can ignore my quick check of a computer here that proves your easy-to-remember theory wrong. Not sure what else to say. Your life is simple, you don't deal with lots of computers and/or devices.
If you own 1 or 2 cars, it should easy to remember which side the tank is on. If you travel a lot and have to deal with rentals cars all the time, I think having an arrow near the fuel gauge sounds like a pretty good idea, and you would too as you pulled up to the gas station in an unfamiliar city.
Funny how a month ago, predicting Thunderbolt's obviously inevitable demise in favor of USB on this site would get you slammed, called a "troll", and subjected to a massive pile-on from people claiming that USB in fact needed to be killed off and that we would all be using Thunderbolt for mice in the future — and now this is right on the front page.
After reading this thread I really have to wonder if anybody here is actually a capable tech oriented person. You should be able to identify which side is up with 100% reliability on a USB connector. The standard specifies where the USB icon is to be stamped on the connector housing. Even if that isn't there you can identify by looking at the metal housing.
Honestly I'm only half way through this thread and frankly it is the biggest bunch of bull crap I've read in a long time on AppleInsider. There is something inherently wrong with people that need to expend all this effort to plug in a USB connector.
You're making erroneous assumption that people doing the same action for the millionth time are going to look at the cable first, much less analyzing the side that a logo is either printed or modeled (the latter being much harder to discern as it's usually the black colour of the plastic, isn't raised far enough to feel, especially when the other side isn't smooth.
Why assume every single insertion is done by someone 1) in a well lit room, and 2) with sufficent eyesight to see a difference is shadowing in the plastic mold of a small connector.
After reading this thread I really have to wonder if anybody here is actually a capable tech oriented person. You should be able to identify which side is up with 100% reliability on a USB connector. The standard specifies where the USB icon is to be stamped on the connector housing. Even if that isn't there you can identify by looking at the metal housing.
Honestly I'm only half way through this thread and frankly it is the biggest bunch of bull crap I've read in a long time on AppleInsider. There is something inherently wrong with people that need to expend all this effort to plug in a USB connector.
Let's see... picture Steve Wozniak in a hurry at his desk plugging in a USB at the back of his iMac to upload some image from his camera.
I think most people here are perfectly capable of plugging in a USB but not all of us roll our sleeves up, correct our glasses, and pull up our slacks before we carefully kneel down on one knee so we get a clear view, before inserting the USB firmly gripped between thumb and index at the optimal angle. Like normal people tech oriented people are different and being so is not evidence of there being something inherently 'wrong' with them.
After reading this thread I really have to wonder if anybody here is actually a capable tech oriented person. You should be able to identify which side is up with 100% reliability on a USB connector. The standard specifies where the USB icon is to be stamped on the connector housing. Even if that isn't there you can identify by looking at the metal housing.
Honestly I'm only half way through this thread and frankly it is the biggest bunch of bull crap I've read in a long time on AppleInsider. There is something inherently wrong with people that need to expend all this effort to plug in a USB connector.
It's not that they really have that much difficulty with USB; saying they have gives the necessary cred to high five Apple and denigrate the non-Apple. The same song and dance was used to sing the praises of the money-grab lightning port vs the 30 pin connector.
USB-C will probably be added to other MacBooks in the near future replacing one usb or the MagSafe adapter. Thunderbolt is still going strong and will remain in the MacBook Pro's because USB-C is not powerful enough to replace it
Because the EU is about to require that all personal electronic devices use a USB connector for charging.
Seriously.
That law has nothing to do with what type of port the device has built-in... The requirement will be that all devices must have the ability to use a standard charging cable - this is easily accomplished with the inclusion of a free adaptor.
There is no way the EU is going to hurt consumers by fragmenting the iOS market from the rest of the world. That is to say, all EU versions of iOS devices would be incompatible with every 3rd party iOS peripheral and accessory. Not gonna happen.
It's not that they really have that much difficulty with USB; saying they have gives the necessary cred to high five Apple and denigrate the non-Apple. The same song and dance was used to sing the praises of the money-grab lightning port vs the 30 pin connector.
Not too OT derail the thread but that lightning connector has cost me, in replacement cables.
My kids can break em quicker than you can say, " gimme back the 30 pin cable, pulleaze !"
6 and counting so far. It's just too flimsy
Never had to replace a 30 pin ever.
Not too OT derail the thread but that lightning connector has cost me, in replacement cables.
My kids can break em quicker than you can say, " gimme back the 30 pin cable, pulleaze !"
6 and counting so far. It's just too flimsy
Never had to replace a 30 pin ever.
Comments
If you follow the cues it's straightforward.
wont' run my firewire camera
That's true. However, the writing's been on the wall for years for those who have been paying attention.
There used to be an army of Thunderbolt crusaders on this site. They'd have an answer for everything. TB devices are obscenely expensive? That's just because it's new (except that USB stuff pretty quickly became cheaper than what it replaced, and providing documentation to prove that is of course ignored). USB is extremely entrenched and hard to move public support away from? So was ADB (except that it wasn't, it was a relatively obscure Mac-only bus that hardly anyone in 1998 cared about). USB is good enough for most application? No, the average Joe consumer is certain to care about how many Gb/s a computer interface is capable of pushing out (which,
Now granted, the new MacBook kind of still has that last problem, but 1) $70 is still a lot better than $200, and 2) since this is USB, there's almost assuredly going to be third-party alternatives from places like Monoprice before too long that will charge far less. I'm hoping that someone releases one with a DisplayPort on it instead of HDMI since that's what USB 3.1 is using under the hood anyway and since it's just overall better, but that's for another day.
Sounds fine and dandy, but running something like power from both sides of the computer is not trivial, so no, not a no-brainer. These are really sophisticated machines, it's not just the price of a connector.
Sure, I'd love to have power available on both sides, and it would also give the ability to use a thumb drive or external HD without unplugging the damn computer from its power source. But I could get the latter needs met with 2 USB-C ports on the same side, and that, from a hardware design view, is a MUCH easier ask.
I do think that when the next-gen pro models come out we'll see multiple USB-C ports. This is not a pro-class machine, and therefore not for me, but it will serve the needs of some portion of the population. If there are enough complaints from "typical" users, I'm sure things will change.
But similarly to the situation with the crappy glossy screens Apple uses now, if enough people don't care, then that's the way it will be. Less SKUs are easier to manage. Sadly, I'm not expecting that to change in the near future. The displays are slowly getting better year by year, and my only hope is that they get "better enough" that I don't need to build some crappy frankenstein hackintosh when my current laptop finally dies. As of today, Apple doesn't make a laptop that I can use on an everyday basis. I can complain all I want, but if a majority of the market doesn't care and/or tolerates what's there now, that's what it'll be. In the meantime I'm milking this machine as long as humanly possible. Hopefully the next-gen pro laptops will have more USB ports available and we won't have a similar situation.
Apple will not replace the Lightning port with USB-C. Given that Apple is constantly going smaller/thinner, why would they switch to a port that's larger? Furthermore, Lightning is still much more versatile than USB-C as it can be dynamically configured based on the type of device that connects to it.
Because the EU is about to require that all personal electronic devices use a USB connector for charging.
Seriously.
I've found that all decent usb cables indicate which way is up using the usb symbol on the top side. Devices with usb also have that side up when the connector is horizontal.
Works great in the dark.
1. Try to insert ... it does not slide in.
2. Turn it around ... it still does not slide in.
Repeat 1 and 2 above until successful.
Call me a klutz but it can take 4 or 5 tries to succeed.
It is one of those frustrations that I have come to accept. Looking forward to the solution
After reading this thread I really have to wonder if anybody here is actually a capable tech oriented person. You should be able to identify which side is up with 100% reliability on a USB connector. The standard specifies where the USB icon is to be stamped on the connector housing. Even if that isn't there you can identify by looking at the metal housing.
Honestly I'm only half way through this thread and frankly it is the biggest bunch of bull crap I've read in a long time on AppleInsider. There is something inherently wrong with people that need to expend all this effort to plug in a USB connector.
Fine, you can ignore all the evidence that others have given, and you can ignore my quick check of a computer here that proves your easy-to-remember theory wrong. Not sure what else to say. Your life is simple, you don't deal with lots of computers and/or devices.
If you own 1 or 2 cars, it should easy to remember which side the tank is on. If you travel a lot and have to deal with rentals cars all the time, I think having an arrow near the fuel gauge sounds like a pretty good idea, and you would too as you pulled up to the gas station in an unfamiliar city.
Because the EU is about to require that all personal electronic devices use a USB connector for charging.
Are they going to specify which type of USB? Is there even a reversible micro USB that might be suitable for iPhones?
Like this?
You're making erroneous assumption that people doing the same action for the millionth time are going to look at the cable first, much less analyzing the side that a logo is either printed or modeled (the latter being much harder to discern as it's usually the black colour of the plastic, isn't raised far enough to feel, especially when the other side isn't smooth.
Why assume every single insertion is done by someone 1) in a well lit room, and 2) with sufficent eyesight to see a difference is shadowing in the plastic mold of a small connector.
Let's see... picture Steve Wozniak in a hurry at his desk plugging in a USB at the back of his iMac to upload some image from his camera.
I think most people here are perfectly capable of plugging in a USB but not all of us roll our sleeves up, correct our glasses, and pull up our slacks before we carefully kneel down on one knee so we get a clear view, before inserting the USB firmly gripped between thumb and index at the optimal angle. Like normal people tech oriented people are different and being so is not evidence of there being something inherently 'wrong' with them.
After reading this thread I really have to wonder if anybody here is actually a capable tech oriented person. You should be able to identify which side is up with 100% reliability on a USB connector. The standard specifies where the USB icon is to be stamped on the connector housing. Even if that isn't there you can identify by looking at the metal housing.
Honestly I'm only half way through this thread and frankly it is the biggest bunch of bull crap I've read in a long time on AppleInsider. There is something inherently wrong with people that need to expend all this effort to plug in a USB connector.
It's not that they really have that much difficulty with USB; saying they have gives the necessary cred to high five Apple and denigrate the non-Apple. The same song and dance was used to sing the praises of the money-grab lightning port vs the 30 pin connector.
Because the EU is about to require that all personal electronic devices use a USB connector for charging.
Seriously.
That law has nothing to do with what type of port the device has built-in... The requirement will be that all devices must have the ability to use a standard charging cable - this is easily accomplished with the inclusion of a free adaptor.
There is no way the EU is going to hurt consumers by fragmenting the iOS market from the rest of the world. That is to say, all EU versions of iOS devices would be incompatible with every 3rd party iOS peripheral and accessory. Not gonna happen.
Not too OT derail the thread but that lightning connector has cost me, in replacement cables.
My kids can break em quicker than you can say, " gimme back the 30 pin cable, pulleaze !"
6 and counting so far. It's just too flimsy
Never had to replace a 30 pin ever.
I have a solution: get rid of your kids.
On eBay right now.
Have at em