Funny how a month ago, predicting Thunderbolt's obviously inevitable demise in favor of USB on this site would get you slammed, called a "troll", and subjected to a massive pile-on from people claiming that USB in fact needed to be killed off and that we would all be using Thunderbolt for mice in the future — and now this is right on the front page.
When I suggested minimum two usb-c ports one on each side of macbook/laptop because the single port is use for power and usb connectivity so will break faster. Some commenters pointed their laptop usb port connector had not seen broken. That is because it is used only for connectivity and not including power. Moreover, many laptops have their power connector get broke faster than other ports/connector, parts of laptop. Some raised issue saying some idiot will plug two power supply thinking to charge faster and damage laptop. Well, currently several usb ports available on laptop. Hardware designer can take care of sensing power on one usb-c than only allow non-power usb connectivity on other or may be two power supply can help provide bit extra current to charge it faster. I am sure laptop designer can easily figure out. Just like current laptop comes with multiple USB-2 ports, future laptops will come with multiple USB-C.
Well for me, as in many things such as typing and driving my car, i've developed 'body' memory. I don't look at polarized plugs first. I don't look at USB plugs first. I grab the end and try it. It seems like 90% of the time, I select the wrong orientation.
If you have to look at the plug, it's time to redesign the plug.
I can't believe how smug some people are about their success rate with USB-A. Jeeezus.
By the way, you can have the silly audio plug as well. It's a circle, so at least they got that right. But over time, the jack gets loose and feels terrible. Just like the first iPods where Steve said, 'get back in the lab immediately and redesign this damn plug.'
Apple's audio jack was the best, IMO. I'll give them that.
I started out loving the lightning connector but as someone already said, the neck tends to kink, even with the sleeve. The sleeve merely moves the kink point downward.
So we're still waiting for the perfect cable, IMO. I like the size, friction and reversibility of the Lightning cable. Had they turned that into a usb 3 port, that would have been pretty sweet. I don't think Apple can use the fatter specification in their ever shrinking iOS devices.
"Rare"? I think not. In a worst-case scenario, you have a 50% chance of getting it right. I wouldn't call a 50% chance "rare".
That's like saying I drive my car half of the time and my wife drives my car the other half of the time and claiming that I rarely drive my car.
It's actually worse than that because half the time when you do have it correctly oriented it's not aligned perfectly and because you don't want to push it in the wrong way and break something you end up trying the other side anyway. Then you have to work out which side felt the "least wrong" before jamming it in firmly.
USB is flawed by design from the start, there will always be an alternative on pro gear. Thunderbolt is here to stay, but like FireWire, it'll be the pro connector, whereas USB will be used in email-readers like the MacBook.
Don't believe the above? Look at the USB ports on the computer you're using right now. I'll bet you the vast majority are installed as described. Plugging in a USB device is far from rocket science - all it takes is basic observation and memory.
Do you realize that you are describing all the reasons that make something obsolete at the end (people chose the easier more convenient route).
"Its so easy to shift that gear into place and you can even chose yourself how much pressure you want on the engine and how quickly you want to accelerate, why would _anyone_ chose an automatic gearbox in their car!"
Yeah, Thunderbolt's biggest problem has been that it provides solutions for needs very few people have. Live video streaming, low latency audio, very high bandwidth data, multiple protocols like 10 gigabit ethernet or fiber channel, running PCIe devices.
There's been mention of USB's alt-mode potentially being able to support PCIe. Thunderbolt doesn't have a bandwidth advantage either because they both use multiple lanes but for some reason the USB 3 protocol can't use it all. Displayport can and 5K video at 60Hz can go over a single USB 3 cable, which uses 21Gbps.
The USB C connector might even be able to support optical right in the port in future:
This outcome would supersede Thunderbolt and that would be fine. USB and Thunderbolt are not competing standards. The same people help develop both. Advancements like the above to USB C would just turn it into Thunderbolt.
Actually if you want to use external displays I dont think Apple wants to go that route. And i think this is something Apple might not have considered enough or it might have thought that it would not be a dealbreaker on the new macbook. The problem is HDCP encrypted content. This is a real dealbreaker for me getting a laptop of this kind. Not being able to watch encrypted content on an external display eg. itunes rentals is just bad choice I think. I would NOT have left that thunderbolt port out...
If you look at usb->hdmi adapters like the apple one I have not found one adapter that says HDCP is supported.
How can someone power the computer and plug an external hard drive at the same time via one single USB-C port? Or add an external monitor, all at the same time?
How can someone power the computer and plug an external hard drive at the same time via one single USB-C port? Or add an external monitor, all at the same time?
You chain them together. For example this adaptor gives you a USB 3.1 port, and HDMI port, and *another* USB-C port (which you could plug your power adaptor in to).
But it's going to look super messy if people start chaining these things together. A better solution is some kind of hub. I suspect the next Cinema Display will plug in to your USB-C port and have all sorts of ports on the back such as e.g. Ethernet and 3 USB ports and will charge the computer at the same time, similar to what they did with the Thunderbolt Display.
Apple will not replace the Lightning port with USB-C. Given that Apple is constantly going smaller/thinner, why would they switch to a port that's larger? Furthermore, Lightning is still much more versatile than USB-C as it can be dynamically configured based on the type of device that connects to it.
Apple might be forced to do in the EU. There is a directive by the European Commission that by 2017 every smartphone must use a single, universal connector for charging the device and for data connection (avoiding waste when changing smartphone supplier). Although the European Commission gave the freedom to the smartphone suppliers to choose the universal connector, it is written in the stars it will be the USB C connector. Lightning does not have a chance because it is protected by too many patents.
By the way your argument Lightning being much more versatile than USB -C is more than slightly exaggerated.
Apple might be forced to do in the EU. There is a directive by the European Commission that by 2017 every smartphone must use a single, universal connector for charging the device and for data connection (avoiding waste when changing smartphone supplier). Although the European Commission gave the freedom to the smartphone suppliers to choose the universal connector, it is written in the stars it will be the USB C connector. Lightning does not have a chance because it is protected by too many patents.
By the way your argument Lightning being much more versatile than USB -C is more than slightly exaggerated.
They changed it? The previous mandate allowed a vendor to use whatever port interface on their device that they see fit, but the power supply had to use a detachable cable with USB-A (perhaps other port interfaces) so that charging from PSUs was universal. Only if you used a PSU with an attached cable did the cable have to be micro-USB.
I also think Apple tossed the baby out with the bath water when they decided to ditch the Magsafe power connector. Magsafe has prevented falls for my Mac laptops on more than one occasion and I'm sorry Apple couldn't find it in their hearts to keep it in the new MacBook, even if that meant it would be ever so slightly less minimalist.
There's a possibility they might go one better though. Skylake is being marketed as having wireless technology that allows wireless charging. The following video shows it working with a mat:
[VIDEO]
If Apple could build a charger that can induce charging at a distance similar to a laptop cable like 1-2m away then they can get rid of cabling altogether for charging. Ideally, there would be a charging brick like Airport Express and you just sit devices near to it. If it had to be closer, another thing they could have is something like the ?Watch where there's a flat clip that just sticks to the laptop somewhere (it could stick to the Apple logo).
Skylake is due later this year and that kind of tech would make the first revision of the Macbook a bad purchase but it also would explain why it didn't make sense to design Magsafe on to the laptop if they were planning to ditch it for Skylake's wireless charging and that kind of charging would be much better.
I would NOT have left that thunderbolt port out...
If you look at usb->hdmi adapters like the apple one I have not found one adapter that says HDCP is supported.
I don't know why they haven't made a USB C to displayport cable. Google has made a bunch of USB C cables for the Chromebook so maybe they'll support HDCP. Airplay might be an option for HDCP purposes.
I don't know why they haven't made a USB C to displayport cable. Google has made a bunch of USB C cables for the Chromebook so maybe they'll support HDCP. Airplay might be an option for HDCP purposes.
I'm not sure if you mean Apple or any vendor with your use of 'they', but Google has a USB-C-to-DP cable for their Chromebook Pixel.
They changed it? The previous mandate allowed a vendor to use whatever port interface on their device that they see fit, but the power supply had to use a detachable cable with USB-A (perhaps other port interfaces) so that charging from PSUs was universal. Only if you used a PSU with an attached cable did the cable have to be micro-USB.
Indeed the European Parliament voted in March 2014 with 550 votes against 12 for a universal charger. In the mean time the European Commission clarified that the universal charger will include the cable with a USB-C connector.
It is for the moment not clear if a supplier has to provide a USB port on the device or if he can use a small adapter cable (e.g. lightning to female USB-C). But anyhow if a manufacturer would stick in the EU to his own port port + adapter cable for charging, this will be messy and not so customer friendly
But taken into account that Apple goes all the way USB-C for the new Macbook, it might move to the USB-C for iPad and iPhone as well.
Indeed the European Parliament voted in March 2014 with 550 votes against 12 for a universal charger. In the mean time the European Commission clarified that the universal charger will include the cable with a USB-C connector.
It is for the moment not clear if a supplier has to provide a USB port on the device or if he can use a small adapter cable (e.g. lightning to female USB-C). But anyhow if a manufacturer would stick in the EU to his own port port + adapter cable for charging, this will be messy and not so customer friendly
But taken into account that Apple goes all the way USB-C for the new Macbook, it might move to the USB-C for iPad and iPhone as well.
I think that's the wrong way to go. Wouldn't it make more sense to just require that all PSUs to include a USB-C port. This means that a vendor could use other plugs on the PSU or an attached cable (if they saw such a need), but every PSU would have USB-C so that every device would be able to plug into any PSU with their supplied USB-C cable. This would also leave the device to have whatever port interface they wish (although I can't see why they wouldn't want to use USB-C).
Note: I'm not against Apple moving to USB-C. In fact, I've argued that there are inherent benefits to it over Lightning that could push Apple to do so and have noted examples where Apple willingly drop homegrown solutions standards when they bested their efforts (and that was obviously before reading your post).
Many people complain that it's rare to properly plug in the connector on the first try.
"Rare" as in 50%? Or "many" as in 5? Come on, man. Plugging in a USB cable isn't like looking for the Amur leopard (or whatever rare animal you google up). Or, "Ha ha ha, we've all had difficulty with USB! M I RITE!?!!?"? Hilarious.
But if you consider about 50% of the time for those who don't bother to check which side has the printed USB symbol on it (or don't have wires with it) rare, fine. Knock yourself out.
I love me some reversible Lightning connectors, but I miss well-written newspapers.
Comments
oh boy, please read a few more posts first to see the 50:50 argument...., grab some popcorn first
I can't believe I am not the only one to think of this.
Citation needed.
Well, no they don't. : ) They WILL have them at some point...
The same applies to the new Macbook. It's not out yet. So, relax.
When I suggested minimum two usb-c ports one on each side of macbook/laptop because the single port is use for power and usb connectivity so will break faster. Some commenters pointed their laptop usb port connector had not seen broken. That is because it is used only for connectivity and not including power. Moreover, many laptops have their power connector get broke faster than other ports/connector, parts of laptop. Some raised issue saying some idiot will plug two power supply thinking to charge faster and damage laptop. Well, currently several usb ports available on laptop. Hardware designer can take care of sensing power on one usb-c than only allow non-power usb connectivity on other or may be two power supply can help provide bit extra current to charge it faster. I am sure laptop designer can easily figure out. Just like current laptop comes with multiple USB-2 ports, future laptops will come with multiple USB-C.
Well for me, as in many things such as typing and driving my car, i've developed 'body' memory. I don't look at polarized plugs first. I don't look at USB plugs first. I grab the end and try it. It seems like 90% of the time, I select the wrong orientation.
If you have to look at the plug, it's time to redesign the plug.
I can't believe how smug some people are about their success rate with USB-A. Jeeezus.
By the way, you can have the silly audio plug as well. It's a circle, so at least they got that right. But over time, the jack gets loose and feels terrible. Just like the first iPods where Steve said, 'get back in the lab immediately and redesign this damn plug.'
Apple's audio jack was the best, IMO. I'll give them that.
I started out loving the lightning connector but as someone already said, the neck tends to kink, even with the sleeve. The sleeve merely moves the kink point downward.
So we're still waiting for the perfect cable, IMO. I like the size, friction and reversibility of the Lightning cable. Had they turned that into a usb 3 port, that would have been pretty sweet. I don't think Apple can use the fatter specification in their ever shrinking iOS devices.
"Rare"? I think not. In a worst-case scenario, you have a 50% chance of getting it right. I wouldn't call a 50% chance "rare".
That's like saying I drive my car half of the time and my wife drives my car the other half of the time and claiming that I rarely drive my car.
It's actually worse than that because half the time when you do have it correctly oriented it's not aligned perfectly and because you don't want to push it in the wrong way and break something you end up trying the other side anyway. Then you have to work out which side felt the "least wrong" before jamming it in firmly.
The official Apple adaptor is very expensive.
Wonder how long it will take to see third party stuff?
Don't believe the above? Look at the USB ports on the computer you're using right now. I'll bet you the vast majority are installed as described. Plugging in a USB device is far from rocket science - all it takes is basic observation and memory.
Do you realize that you are describing all the reasons that make something obsolete at the end (people chose the easier more convenient route).
"Its so easy to shift that gear into place and you can even chose yourself how much pressure you want on the engine and how quickly you want to accelerate, why would _anyone_ chose an automatic gearbox in their car!"
Yeah, Thunderbolt's biggest problem has been that it provides solutions for needs very few people have. Live video streaming, low latency audio, very high bandwidth data, multiple protocols like 10 gigabit ethernet or fiber channel, running PCIe devices.
There's been mention of USB's alt-mode potentially being able to support PCIe. Thunderbolt doesn't have a bandwidth advantage either because they both use multiple lanes but for some reason the USB 3 protocol can't use it all. Displayport can and 5K video at 60Hz can go over a single USB 3 cable, which uses 21Gbps.
The USB C connector might even be able to support optical right in the port in future:
http://www.corning.com/opcomm/OpticalCablesbyCorning/products/USB-3.Optical.aspx
This outcome would supersede Thunderbolt and that would be fine. USB and Thunderbolt are not competing standards. The same people help develop both. Advancements like the above to USB C would just turn it into Thunderbolt.
Actually if you want to use external displays I dont think Apple wants to go that route. And i think this is something Apple might not have considered enough or it might have thought that it would not be a dealbreaker on the new macbook. The problem is HDCP encrypted content. This is a real dealbreaker for me getting a laptop of this kind. Not being able to watch encrypted content on an external display eg. itunes rentals is just bad choice I think. I would NOT have left that thunderbolt port out...
If you look at usb->hdmi adapters like the apple one I have not found one adapter that says HDCP is supported.
eg.
http://plugable.com/products/usb3-hdmi-dvi->The adapter supports HDMI through the 1.3 standard (BUT: HDCP protected content not supported).
How can someone power the computer and plug an external hard drive at the same time via one single USB-C port? Or add an external monitor, all at the same time?
You chain them together. For example this adaptor gives you a USB 3.1 port, and HDMI port, and *another* USB-C port (which you could plug your power adaptor in to).
http://store.apple.com/us/product/MJ1K2AM/A/usb-c-digital-av-multiport-adapter
But it's going to look super messy if people start chaining these things together. A better solution is some kind of hub. I suspect the next Cinema Display will plug in to your USB-C port and have all sorts of ports on the back such as e.g. Ethernet and 3 USB ports and will charge the computer at the same time, similar to what they did with the Thunderbolt Display.
I think this is the dumbest idea apple has ever done, now these cables/port will break every time you trip over them.
the magport was the best invention ever made, it elimated broken power ports and laptops flying off the table.
What apple needs to do is create a mag port version of the USB-C
I will NOT buy another apple laptop with this dumb cable/port. I'll stick with my old Macbook or get the new models with magport.
Apple will not replace the Lightning port with USB-C. Given that Apple is constantly going smaller/thinner, why would they switch to a port that's larger? Furthermore, Lightning is still much more versatile than USB-C as it can be dynamically configured based on the type of device that connects to it.
Apple might be forced to do in the EU. There is a directive by the European Commission that by 2017 every smartphone must use a single, universal connector for charging the device and for data connection (avoiding waste when changing smartphone supplier). Although the European Commission gave the freedom to the smartphone suppliers to choose the universal connector, it is written in the stars it will be the USB C connector. Lightning does not have a chance because it is protected by too many patents.
By the way your argument Lightning being much more versatile than USB -C is more than slightly exaggerated.
They changed it? The previous mandate allowed a vendor to use whatever port interface on their device that they see fit, but the power supply had to use a detachable cable with USB-A (perhaps other port interfaces) so that charging from PSUs was universal. Only if you used a PSU with an attached cable did the cable have to be micro-USB.
There's a possibility they might go one better though. Skylake is being marketed as having wireless technology that allows wireless charging. The following video shows it working with a mat:
[VIDEO]
If Apple could build a charger that can induce charging at a distance similar to a laptop cable like 1-2m away then they can get rid of cabling altogether for charging. Ideally, there would be a charging brick like Airport Express and you just sit devices near to it. If it had to be closer, another thing they could have is something like the ?Watch where there's a flat clip that just sticks to the laptop somewhere (it could stick to the Apple logo).
Skylake is due later this year and that kind of tech would make the first revision of the Macbook a bad purchase but it also would explain why it didn't make sense to design Magsafe on to the laptop if they were planning to ditch it for Skylake's wireless charging and that kind of charging would be much better.
I don't know why they haven't made a USB C to displayport cable. Google has made a bunch of USB C cables for the Chromebook so maybe they'll support HDCP. Airplay might be an option for HDCP purposes.
I'm not sure if you mean Apple or any vendor with your use of 'they', but Google has a USB-C-to-DP cable for their Chromebook Pixel.
They changed it? The previous mandate allowed a vendor to use whatever port interface on their device that they see fit, but the power supply had to use a detachable cable with USB-A (perhaps other port interfaces) so that charging from PSUs was universal. Only if you used a PSU with an attached cable did the cable have to be micro-USB.
Indeed the European Parliament voted in March 2014 with 550 votes against 12 for a universal charger. In the mean time the European Commission clarified that the universal charger will include the cable with a USB-C connector.
It is for the moment not clear if a supplier has to provide a USB port on the device or if he can use a small adapter cable (e.g. lightning to female USB-C). But anyhow if a manufacturer would stick in the EU to his own port port + adapter cable for charging, this will be messy and not so customer friendly
But taken into account that Apple goes all the way USB-C for the new Macbook, it might move to the USB-C for iPad and iPhone as well.
I think that's the wrong way to go. Wouldn't it make more sense to just require that all PSUs to include a USB-C port. This means that a vendor could use other plugs on the PSU or an attached cable (if they saw such a need), but every PSU would have USB-C so that every device would be able to plug into any PSU with their supplied USB-C cable. This would also leave the device to have whatever port interface they wish (although I can't see why they wouldn't want to use USB-C).
Note: I'm not against Apple moving to USB-C. In fact, I've argued that there are inherent benefits to it over Lightning that could push Apple to do so and have noted examples where Apple willingly drop homegrown solutions standards when they bested their efforts (and that was obviously before reading your post).
Many people complain that it's rare to properly plug in the connector on the first try.
"Rare" as in 50%? Or "many" as in 5? Come on, man. Plugging in a USB cable isn't like looking for the Amur leopard (or whatever rare animal you google up). Or, "Ha ha ha, we've all had difficulty with USB! M I RITE!?!!?"? Hilarious.
But if you consider about 50% of the time for those who don't bother to check which side has the printed USB symbol on it (or don't have wires with it) rare, fine. Knock yourself out.
I love me some reversible Lightning connectors, but I miss well-written newspapers.