USB 3.1 will definitely spread (based on how quickly the PC world has adopted new USB versions in the past), but whether the USB-C connector will is more up in the air. We could end up in a world where 95% of the PC world sticks with type A connectors.
Not too OT derail the thread but that lightning connector has cost me, in replacement cables.
My kids can break em quicker than you can say, " gimme back the 30 pin cable, pulleaze !"
6 and counting so far. It's just too flimsy
Never had to replace a 30 pin ever.
My 15" MBPR was quite expensive. It's not unreasonable to expect a bit of quality when you pay so much. I am now on my second power adapter where the insulation on the crappy low quality power cable has broken and failed near the MagSafe connector. Apple tried to stiff me on replacement of the first one under warranty and I had to quote EU consumer legislation at them before they reluctantly agreed to replace the adapter. When this one goes I suspect I will have to foot the bill. The power cord on my Powerbook Ti lasted 9 years of similar use without failing.
I had to chuckle when I read "the infamous non-reversible Type-A connector". It's a conundrum so trivial I'm not sure it even qualifies as a First World problem.
That said, I like USB-C and think it offers some real benefits. However, I also think Apple tossed the baby out with the bath water when they decided to ditch the Magsafe power connector. Magsafe has prevented falls for my Mac laptops on more than one occasion and I'm sorry Apple couldn't find it in their hearts to keep it in the new MacBook, even if that meant it would be ever so slightly less minimalist.
USB 2.0 also employs an infamous non-reversible Type-A connector. Many people complain that it's rare to properly plug in the connector on the first try.
After reading this thread I really have to wonder if anybody here is actually a capable tech oriented person. You should be able to identify which side is up with 100% reliability on a USB connector. The standard specifies where the USB icon is to be stamped on the connector housing. Even if that isn't there you can identify by looking at the metal housing.
Honestly I'm only half way through this thread and frankly it is the biggest bunch of bull crap I've read in a long time on AppleInsider. There is something inherently wrong with people that need to expend all this effort to plug in a USB connector.
not sure its a lot of effort, per se, but its a pain.
I design electronic instruments for a living, when I'm in the lab I am frequently plugging unplugging usb - not all nice cables either, mostly cheap versions. I have emulators, programmers, debuggers, rs232 dongles, all kinds of stuff. Its not a first world problem, but it's a pain in the ass.
Considering when USB was invented, engineers actually knew about human user interfaces, ergonomics etc, AND we had all this legacy connectors such as D types, (rs232, parallel, SCSI) Connectors like these were clearly shaped so you got them the right way round. USB was intended to be the sort of connector that IS frequently plugged / unplugged (even mice keyboards etc..) so for the USB committee to approve a connector that essentially looks the same from both ways, and yet not be reversible was poor engineering.
Actually no. Two would have been ideal as one could charge the device and have another device connected. You could be charging and hook up a display. Having no available putts whole charging is what bothers me
Looks like Thunderbolt is not supported in either of the multiport adapters. That is disappointing. Perhaps Intel licensing fees were too high or something. I can't think of why they would eliminate it.
Also neither of the adapters offer a second USB-C port.
Looks like Thunderbolt is not supported in either of the multiport adapters. That is disappointing. Perhaps Intel licensing fees were too high or something. I can't think of why they would eliminate it.
Also neither of the adapters offer a second USB-C port.
not just thunderbolt, not even displayport, preventing using this new macbook with usb-c from being used with apples own 30 inch external monitor. I expect either Apple or a third party will soon make such an adapter
Looks like Thunderbolt is not supported in either of the multiport adapters. That is disappointing. Perhaps Intel licensing fees were too high or something. I can't think of why they would eliminate it.
Also neither of the adapters offer a second USB-C port.
I am sure it won't be long before all sorts of third-party choices are available. Apple itself could expand choices by actual pre-order, for all we know.
And 4 would have been even "better". I'm sure Apple considered the option, but this what the product they wanted to make. I respect them for it, because it takes guts to do that. Including more "stuff" in any product in order to appease more people is always the safer, easier way, but it also compromises the products primary vision. This is basically an iPad with a real keyboard and OSX, a product many have longed for. For those that don't want that, Apple sells many other laptops.
He didn't say 4, he said 2. 4 would be a completely different stance. Don't put words in people's mouths to make tangential, self serving points.
USB-C might not be able to replace Lightning, because the connector is probabably already pushing it as far as size and fitting in Apple's super-slim devices....which, knowing Apple, are only going to get slimmer. I'd expect Apple to upgrade Lightning to support faster speeds and then sell an optional cable with a USB-C connector at the other end. This would also allow Apple to maintain its proprietary control over accessories.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy
And 4 would have been even "better". I'm sure Apple considered the option, but this what the product they wanted to make. I respect them for it, because it takes guts to do that. Including more "stuff" in any product in order to appease more people is always the safer, easier way, but it also compromises the products primary vision.
I understand your point, but keep in mind that this is the same company and hardware team that applied the less-is-more concept and come out with the buttonless iPod shuffle. They do sometimes take minimalist design too far.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain J
Actually no. Two would have been ideal as one could charge the device and have another device connected. You could be charging and hook up a display. Having no available putts whole charging is what bothers me
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWhiteFalcon
You can charge and have it outputting to an external display at the same time.
If you remember to first plug in the appropriate adaptor/hub ahead of time. The MB has a long battery life, but there are going to be times when you plug in an external drive (which may be bus powered and draining the battery even faster) and start a large file copy, a clone of your internal drive, stream a video, or be in the middle of projecting a presentation to a client. What are you going to do if halfway through your realize your battery is about to die and your drive/projector is plugged directly into the only port you have? If future devices are going to be like today's USB and not be daisy-chainable (and not able to pass through power), you'll have no choice but to stop your data transfer/video/presentation to swap in the appropriate adaptor/hub dongle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by smiffy31
These are not simple USB ports, if they added 2 they would not be the same, having full USB C to both sides of the machine would be very difficult 100w power in out and video is not likely, but Apple would neve have two identical ports on different sides with different functions. As others have done.
I certainly hope the USB-C spec is more robust than that! Does it only allow a single port to have video and/or power capabilities? Does it require that all ports on a computer be colocated to single small space on the case?
As far as the headphone jack being in the way, without having seen a teardown yet to see how much space the connectors take up inside the case, I'd think the headphone jack could have been moved to a narrower part of the case and made room for a 2nd port if Apple had wanted to.
I understand the compromise Apple made. It's not a bad design, but there is a very good argument to be made for having a 2nd port. What I would have really liked to have seen if the thickness of the case allowed it (probably not) would be a USB-C on one side and USB-2 on the other so I could connect all of today's devices without a dongle. Apple rarely does these kind of "transitional" designs, but it's not unprecidented. At one time Apple laptops had both FW400 and FW800 ports as they transitioned to MBPs with only a FW800 port.
Looks like Thunderbolt is not supported in either of the multiport adapters. That is disappointing. Perhaps Intel licensing fees were too high or something. I can't think of why they would eliminate it.
Also neither of the adapters offer a second USB-C port.
I don't see how TB could be supported if there is no TB chip on the board.
Thunderbolt is really awesome, with an impressive roadmap ahead. I think USB-C is cool, and it's probably here to stay, but it's nothing like Thunderbolt. Although to a lot of end users it might appear so.
Ultimately I see adding another USB 3 C as slightly problematic unless only the first one can be used for power because some idiot will try to charge faster by plugging in two chargers and ruin something. Then it just becomes confusing as someone will think they are charging when actually they are plugged into the wrong port. All that could have been remedied with a Thunderbolt port.
As I stated above, I certainly hope the USB-C spec is more robust than that. If a computer has multiple identical looking ports but only one of them allows for charging I'd consider that a serious failure of the specification.
And would plugging in multiple chargers really be all that different than using an 85W MagSafe adaptor in place of a 45W adaptor to charge a MBA or using an iPad adaptor to charge an iPod touch? It's not like the adaptors are focing current into the device. The device just take what it needs. Yes, there are design considerations you'd have to take into account to deal with that. But hopefully the USB-C spec has already set the standard to how to handle those situations.
Edit: Also, keep in mind that your laptop already had two power sources (battery and AC when plugged in). Sometimes the battery is providing power, sometimes it's accepting it. I can plug in and unplug the AC source all day long with no ill effect to my computer. I'm not an electical engineer (clearly), but wouldn't similar technology allow you to deal with multiple USB-C ports which may or may not be providing or asking for power?
That's like saying it's rare to toss heads when you flip a coin.
Good morning Australia, read a few of the earlier posts, see why 50% is not 50% for inserting USB, including cartoons..... get your coffee first,
goodnight.
OK fair enough. I do understand the try it, flip it, then realise you had it right the first time scenario. I also agree that the design is annoying but no more annoying than firewire 400 and 800. But seeing as usb 2 was so ubiquitous, and if it really is so annoying, then it's just a super simple matter of getting some nail polish and putting a tiny red drop on the side of the connector that is 'up', or if the slot is at the back and vertical then the dot becomes 'right' or 'left' depending. Then you don't even need to look at it because you can feel it. Get a grip people, it's not rocket science.
People who are totally blind seem to manage quite well in life, and people who are 100% sighted need their parents to help them with a frikken plug. Give me a break.
Nevertheless, a reversible plug is definitely an improvement, on a borked design.
Actually no. Two would have been ideal as one could charge the device and have another device connected. You could be charging and hook up a display. Having no available putts whole charging is what bothers me
Well, no they don't. : ) They WILL have them at some point, but given how long Apple takes getting dongles like this to market I wouldn't buy a new MB and count on the necessary function of one if you need to count on having it within this quarter. The ideal niche user for this MB won't need a multiport dongle. I'm convinced the port adapters will arrive the same time the next higher up generation of these does, with more horsepower and, ironically, a second USB C port.
Comments
USB 3.1 will definitely spread (based on how quickly the PC world has adopted new USB versions in the past), but whether the USB-C connector will is more up in the air. We could end up in a world where 95% of the PC world sticks with type A connectors.
Not too OT derail the thread but that lightning connector has cost me, in replacement cables.
My kids can break em quicker than you can say, " gimme back the 30 pin cable, pulleaze !"
6 and counting so far. It's just too flimsy
Never had to replace a 30 pin ever.
My 15" MBPR was quite expensive. It's not unreasonable to expect a bit of quality when you pay so much. I am now on my second power adapter where the insulation on the crappy low quality power cable has broken and failed near the MagSafe connector. Apple tried to stiff me on replacement of the first one under warranty and I had to quote EU consumer legislation at them before they reluctantly agreed to replace the adapter. When this one goes I suspect I will have to foot the bill. The power cord on my Powerbook Ti lasted 9 years of similar use without failing.
That said, I like USB-C and think it offers some real benefits. However, I also think Apple tossed the baby out with the bath water when they decided to ditch the Magsafe power connector. Magsafe has prevented falls for my Mac laptops on more than one occasion and I'm sorry Apple couldn't find it in their hearts to keep it in the new MacBook, even if that meant it would be ever so slightly less minimalist.
USB 2.0 also employs an infamous non-reversible Type-A connector. Many people complain that it's rare to properly plug in the connector on the first try.
Rare? Like a 50/50 chance.
Rare? Like a 50/50 chance.
oh boy, please read a few more posts first to see the 50:50 argument...., grab some popcorn first
After reading this thread I really have to wonder if anybody here is actually a capable tech oriented person. You should be able to identify which side is up with 100% reliability on a USB connector. The standard specifies where the USB icon is to be stamped on the connector housing. Even if that isn't there you can identify by looking at the metal housing.
Honestly I'm only half way through this thread and frankly it is the biggest bunch of bull crap I've read in a long time on AppleInsider. There is something inherently wrong with people that need to expend all this effort to plug in a USB connector.
not sure its a lot of effort, per se, but its a pain.
I design electronic instruments for a living, when I'm in the lab I am frequently plugging unplugging usb - not all nice cables either, mostly cheap versions. I have emulators, programmers, debuggers, rs232 dongles, all kinds of stuff. Its not a first world problem, but it's a pain in the ass.
Considering when USB was invented, engineers actually knew about human user interfaces, ergonomics etc, AND we had all this legacy connectors such as D types, (rs232, parallel, SCSI) Connectors like these were clearly shaped so you got them the right way round. USB was intended to be the sort of connector that IS frequently plugged / unplugged (even mice keyboards etc..) so for the USB committee to approve a connector that essentially looks the same from both ways, and yet not be reversible was poor engineering.
Actually no. Two would have been ideal as one could charge the device and have another device connected. You could be charging and hook up a display. Having no available putts whole charging is what bothers me
Apple has a couple of different multi-port dongles that will allow you to do precisely that. http://store.apple.com/us/product/MJ1K2AM/A/usb-c-digital-av-multiport-adapter
Apple has a couple of different multi-port dongles that will allow you to do precisely that. http://store.apple.com/us/product/MJ1K2AM/A/usb-c-digital-av-multiport-adapter
Looks like Thunderbolt is not supported in either of the multiport adapters. That is disappointing. Perhaps Intel licensing fees were too high or something. I can't think of why they would eliminate it.
Also neither of the adapters offer a second USB-C port.
Looks like Thunderbolt is not supported in either of the multiport adapters. That is disappointing. Perhaps Intel licensing fees were too high or something. I can't think of why they would eliminate it.
Also neither of the adapters offer a second USB-C port.
not just thunderbolt, not even displayport, preventing using this new macbook with usb-c from being used with apples own 30 inch external monitor. I expect either Apple or a third party will soon make such an adapter
Looks like Thunderbolt is not supported in either of the multiport adapters. That is disappointing. Perhaps Intel licensing fees were too high or something. I can't think of why they would eliminate it.
Also neither of the adapters offer a second USB-C port.
I am sure it won't be long before all sorts of third-party choices are available. Apple itself could expand choices by actual pre-order, for all we know.
And 4 would have been even "better". I'm sure Apple considered the option, but this what the product they wanted to make. I respect them for it, because it takes guts to do that. Including more "stuff" in any product in order to appease more people is always the safer, easier way, but it also compromises the products primary vision. This is basically an iPad with a real keyboard and OSX, a product many have longed for. For those that don't want that, Apple sells many other laptops.
He didn't say 4, he said 2. 4 would be a completely different stance. Don't put words in people's mouths to make tangential, self serving points.
USB-C might not be able to replace Lightning, because the connector is probabably already pushing it as far as size and fitting in Apple's super-slim devices....which, knowing Apple, are only going to get slimmer. I'd expect Apple to upgrade Lightning to support faster speeds and then sell an optional cable with a USB-C connector at the other end. This would also allow Apple to maintain its proprietary control over accessories.
Quote:
And 4 would have been even "better". I'm sure Apple considered the option, but this what the product they wanted to make. I respect them for it, because it takes guts to do that. Including more "stuff" in any product in order to appease more people is always the safer, easier way, but it also compromises the products primary vision.
I understand your point, but keep in mind that this is the same company and hardware team that applied the less-is-more concept and come out with the buttonless iPod shuffle. They do sometimes take minimalist design too far.
Actually no. Two would have been ideal as one could charge the device and have another device connected. You could be charging and hook up a display. Having no available putts whole charging is what bothers me
You can charge and have it outputting to an external display at the same time.
If you remember to first plug in the appropriate adaptor/hub ahead of time. The MB has a long battery life, but there are going to be times when you plug in an external drive (which may be bus powered and draining the battery even faster) and start a large file copy, a clone of your internal drive, stream a video, or be in the middle of projecting a presentation to a client. What are you going to do if halfway through your realize your battery is about to die and your drive/projector is plugged directly into the only port you have? If future devices are going to be like today's USB and not be daisy-chainable (and not able to pass through power), you'll have no choice but to stop your data transfer/video/presentation to swap in the appropriate adaptor/hub dongle.
These are not simple USB ports, if they added 2 they would not be the same, having full USB C to both sides of the machine would be very difficult 100w power in out and video is not likely, but Apple would neve have two identical ports on different sides with different functions. As others have done.
I certainly hope the USB-C spec is more robust than that! Does it only allow a single port to have video and/or power capabilities? Does it require that all ports on a computer be colocated to single small space on the case?
As far as the headphone jack being in the way, without having seen a teardown yet to see how much space the connectors take up inside the case, I'd think the headphone jack could have been moved to a narrower part of the case and made room for a 2nd port if Apple had wanted to.
I understand the compromise Apple made. It's not a bad design, but there is a very good argument to be made for having a 2nd port. What I would have really liked to have seen if the thickness of the case allowed it (probably not) would be a USB-C on one side and USB-2 on the other so I could connect all of today's devices without a dongle. Apple rarely does these kind of "transitional" designs, but it's not unprecidented. At one time Apple laptops had both FW400 and FW800 ports as they transitioned to MBPs with only a FW800 port.
That's like saying it's rare to toss heads when you flip a coin.
I don't see how TB could be supported if there is no TB chip on the board.
I don't see how TB could be supported if there is no TB chip on the board.
Good Point.
That's like saying it's rare to toss heads when you flip a coin.
Good morning Australia, read a few of the earlier posts, see why 50% is not 50% for inserting USB, including cartoons..... get your coffee first,
goodnight.
Ultimately I see adding another USB 3 C as slightly problematic unless only the first one can be used for power because some idiot will try to charge faster by plugging in two chargers and ruin something. Then it just becomes confusing as someone will think they are charging when actually they are plugged into the wrong port. All that could have been remedied with a Thunderbolt port.
As I stated above, I certainly hope the USB-C spec is more robust than that. If a computer has multiple identical looking ports but only one of them allows for charging I'd consider that a serious failure of the specification.
And would plugging in multiple chargers really be all that different than using an 85W MagSafe adaptor in place of a 45W adaptor to charge a MBA or using an iPad adaptor to charge an iPod touch? It's not like the adaptors are focing current into the device. The device just take what it needs. Yes, there are design considerations you'd have to take into account to deal with that. But hopefully the USB-C spec has already set the standard to how to handle those situations.
Edit: Also, keep in mind that your laptop already had two power sources (battery and AC when plugged in). Sometimes the battery is providing power, sometimes it's accepting it. I can plug in and unplug the AC source all day long with no ill effect to my computer. I'm not an electical engineer (clearly), but wouldn't similar technology allow you to deal with multiple USB-C ports which may or may not be providing or asking for power?
That's like saying it's rare to toss heads when you flip a coin.
Good morning Australia, read a few of the earlier posts, see why 50% is not 50% for inserting USB, including cartoons..... get your coffee first,
goodnight.
OK fair enough. I do understand the try it, flip it, then realise you had it right the first time scenario. I also agree that the design is annoying but no more annoying than firewire 400 and 800. But seeing as usb 2 was so ubiquitous, and if it really is so annoying, then it's just a super simple matter of getting some nail polish and putting a tiny red drop on the side of the connector that is 'up', or if the slot is at the back and vertical then the dot becomes 'right' or 'left' depending. Then you don't even need to look at it because you can feel it. Get a grip people, it's not rocket science.
People who are totally blind seem to manage quite well in life, and people who are 100% sighted need their parents to help them with a frikken plug. Give me a break.
Nevertheless, a reversible plug is definitely an improvement, on a borked design.
Well, no they don't. : ) They WILL have them at some point, but given how long Apple takes getting dongles like this to market I wouldn't buy a new MB and count on the necessary function of one if you need to count on having it within this quarter. The ideal niche user for this MB won't need a multiport dongle. I'm convinced the port adapters will arrive the same time the next higher up generation of these does, with more horsepower and, ironically, a second USB C port.