Individual discrimination, while often deplorable, is your business and your right. You're being a jackass, but you have an inalienable God-given right to be a jackass some of the time. The good news is that form of being a jackass is dying as older generations go away and more enlightened kids take its place. Fear not, other forms of being a jackass will take its place.
But when you open your store for business, saying "Come one, come all, come buy my products or hire me to provide my service!", using the secular economic to engage in your transactions and the secular legal system to ensure that you get paid and no one can break in and steal your products, you cannot say "but wait, I'm going to be religious with this one group and refuse them service". You get the advantages of the secular system, you treat all customers who are not a physical or economic threat to you equally. You hire employees based on their ability to do the job reliably and effectively, not attributes of who they are that do not interfere with their ability to do the job. In business, jackasses get sued and have their businesses shut down.
Well said. This form of being a jackass is also on the wrong side of evolution.
Tim IS being hypocritical, but it doesn't mean he's a horrible person for it. It's fallacy to imply that his hypocrisy only hinges on the hypocrisy of others. Could others also be engaging in hypocrisy? Yes, but that doesn't somehow mean that Tim isn't because they "are too." If what you say is true then everybody has their own moments, which I believe to be true myself. That's why i'm more in the the camp of just calling it for what it is, because everybody has moments when they shrink back from their true feelings out of fear of losing something. No condemnation from me, just calling it what it is.
If the law was saying "everyone must engage in the gay sex orgy after a wedding", you might have a point. But I don't think there's anything in the bible about "Thou shalt not take wheat and yeast and make confections for men who lie with each other". (There are parts that suggest what you should do is murder them, but I presume you're neither suggesting that is what the proverbial Christian Baker should do when a gay couple asks for a wedding cake nor that the baker escape any penalty if he were to do that.) (At least I really, really, really hope you're not suggesting that.) If you believe that gay sex is immoral, imperils your soul, or merely really really icky to think about, you should not engage in it. That does not justify discriminating against those who do not believe is is immoral nor imperils their soul nor find it at all icky to think about.
First, please read the comment that this was in response to. It was a direct response at a quoted scripture, I wasn't at all even referring to anything that you're talking about. It was strictly to prove a point about the previous comment to myself.
As far as what you're talking, I don't have it in me to take it that far with you honestly. It will definitely be tl;dr, so I'll do us solid and spare us both. Have a good day sir.
Legal system isn't secular, neither is the economic one for that matter. Been in court lately? You still swear on a Bible last I checked. And despite the efforts to remove the displays, the Ten Commandments largely form the basis of our laws.
Businesses have the right to turn away customers. Heck, Tim does this all the time. He told people who wanted ROI to get out of the stock. Wasn't very tolerant of him, was it?
The Ten Commandments largely form the basis of our laws? So not honoring your parents is a crime? It's illegal not to worship the Judeochristian God and hold any other Gods before Him? And while the Bible is still used as a holdover from older days, it is not required.
Tim Cook did not say "We're going to examine the donations of our customers and remotely disable any who deny the truth of Global Warming". He just said "If you're not willing to accept that we will run the business along these lines, you should sell your stock".
The fact is that Tim has used his position to do what a smart businessman would not do. That is put your needs in front of the companies. He can be waterer he wants to be but when he took the job he took the money. He only pics the small battles, unlike steve jobs.
The fact is that Tim has used his position to do what a smart businessman would not do. That is put your needs in front of the companies. He can be waterer he wants to be but when he took the job he took the money. He only pics the small battles, unlike steve jobs.
Given the number of companies whose leadership has made similar statements - odd how our biggest companies are lead by businessmen who are not smart.
That so called "ancient script" is what guides morality for all humanity. For example, you wouldn't even know that murder was wrong if it were not stated in the Bible. So yes, Cook's statement was hypocritical because he is scared to say the samething in China and the Middle East.
From James Mellaart, The Earliest Civilizations of the Near East, about the excavations at the town of Çatal Hüyük, Anatolia, dating from about 4000 years before Moses:
"There was no war for a thousand years."
Compare to your Bible, written in the era of nomadic goatherd petty warlords, wherein there is constant war.
Gay rights is the most pressing issue in America? Well, I didn't realize that the country was no longer in a depression, with a failing infrastructure, massive unemployment, a gargantuan national debt, failing entitlement programs, a defunct education system, a huge illegal immigration problem, and a largely ignorant populace. Clearly, 'gay rights' trumps all those. :roll eyes:
Exacly!!! Really, why should your rights trump my rights! Why not just legalize Polygamy!!! Why not, they have just as much rights!!! While we're at it, what'as wrong with a 50 year old and a 16 year old? They have just as much rights as everyone else!!! Where does it end?
I don't give a crap what you do in your bedroom. I really don't care if you want to marry. Good for you. As long as you don't try forcing some church to do it or a business to cater to their believes. It's not Raciest, it's not Sexists. Find someone who will. To me it seems dumb to turn away any business these days. Because the money is still green.
Quite frankly I think the Government shouldn't even be in the marriage business!!! Anything can already be done with the lawyer.
Tim Cook as are many others are Hypocrites. Not once said a thing about gay rights anywhere else in the world. Places where being gay gets you killed. I'm all for Gay people having guns for protection. 100% of Apple devices are made in CHINA with terrible human rights. Sold around the world where people are getting murdered by the thousands and yet NOTHING!!! How about stopping iphone sales in Indiana and other states with these laws if you're so offended. That's here right in the U.S. after all. You can't say it's in some other country. Oh wait, the all mighty dollar trumps everything else.
To me I don't really give a crap. I'm a atheist. This is just something else to keep people looking the other way and ignoring the real problems of this country which you listed!!! I have my iPhone 6, iPad 3 and 3 AppleTV 3's. My Dad who lost his house and moved into mine has his Mac Mini, iPad 2 and iPhone 6 also. Lots of Apple products in my house.
Tim IS being hypocritical, but it doesn't mean he's a horrible person for it. It's fallacy to imply that his hypocrisy only hinges on the hypocrisy of others. Could others also be engaging in hypocrisy? Yes, but that doesn't somehow mean that Tim isn't because they "are too." If what you say is true then everybody has their own moments, which I believe to be true myself. That's why i'm more in the the camp of just calling it for what it is, because everybody has moments when they shrink back from their true feelings out of fear of losing something. No condemnation from me, just calling it what it is.
Wanna see someone call Tim Cook a hypocrite, imagine him lecturing the Chinese and them saying, "Hey, look what's going on in your stupid country, you're going backwards in Indiana, Arkansas and twenty other states." Tim: "Well, I tried to tell them . . ."
Chinese official: "Apple has a lot of glass houses here."
What is so hard about this chain of reasoning for you? Convicting him of hypocrisy without an argument based on whether he has a moral high ground over another sovereign country is plainly simplistic.
That same scripture instructs us to love our neighbor as we love ourselves. That's plenty compassion, and humanity beyond measure.
The same places that Go out and help and feed the poor around the world!!! When was the last time anyone around here volunteered to do anything to help the poor? The Government has had a war on Poverty for the last 50 years and it's no better now then it was 50 years ago. Giving people free stuff, just creates more people wanting free stuff.
This. There's too much binary thinking going on. I can criticize one decision he's made, it doesn't mean I hate the man. But I don't think he's doing Apple a favor here, and the action is hypocritical.
Exactly. I've said numerous times in the past that I would prefer that Apple were not political at all, but that hasn't been the case. They have chosen to speak out on a number of issues, and that is of course their choice, but it also opens them up to criticism or to accusations of hypocrisy, as we see in this case.
This is not about GAY or not gay, but about a country which should not vote to be going back to medieval times. If you want to see this globally, and in perspective, Germany before the second world war did not have laws to segregate Jews, theyr lawmakers installed laws that made jews outlaws overnight. And now comes the awful truth, it were not the Germans that condemned 3 m Jews. It were the neighbors of these Jews who gave their whereabouts to the SS, and they picked them up (see the story of Ann Frank). If you are not gay in one of those states where do you go, if your neighbor thinks you are?
Martinus
Christian, Brazilian and not Gay, but feel no hate or whatsoever agains gay people.
Do you really think Cook speaking against things happening in SA will do anything? Really?
Who the hell says it has to do something? He can still speak out anywhere at any time on anything. He's well known and talks to many high up people around the world. Doesn't those country will do anything to change, but SO WHAT!!!!!
Exacly!!! Really, why should your rights trump my rights! Why not just legalize Polygamy!!! Why not, they have just as much rights!!! While we're at it, what'as wrong with a 50 year old and a 16 year old? They have just as much rights as everyone else!!! Where does it end?
I don't give a crap what you do in your bedroom. I really don't care if you want to marry. Good for you. As long as you don't try forcing some church to do it or a business to cater to their believes. It's not Raciest, it's not Sexists. Find someone who will. To me it seems dumb to turn away any business these days. Because the money is still green.
Quite frankly I think the Government shouldn't even be in the marriage business!!! Anything can already be done with the lawyer.
Tim Cook as are many others are Hypocrites. Not once said a thing about gay rights anywhere else in the world. Places where being gay gets you killed. I'm all for Gay people having guns for protection. 100% of Apple devices are made in CHINA with terrible human rights. Sold around the world where people are getting murdered by the thousands and yet NOTHING!!! How about stopping iphone sales in Indiana and other states with these laws if you're so offended. That's here right in the U.S. after all. You can't say it's in some other country. Oh wait, the all mighty dollar trumps everything else.
To me I don't really give a crap. I'm a atheist. This is just something else to keep people looking the other way and ignoring the real problems of this country which you listed!!! I have my iPhone 6, iPad 3 and 3 AppleTV 3's. My Dad who lost his house and moved into mine has his Mac Mini, iPad 2 and iPhone 6 also. Lots of Apple products in my house.
That's the whole point though my man. Only speaking when the terms are favorable for you but choosing not when they aren't is hypocritical any way you slice it. If your cause is THAT important to you, then you will stay true to it and stand up for it across the board; regardless of the circumstances you will stand up for your perception of "justice." He would do that even at a loss to himself, like potentially being ousted at Apple if he were to bring backlash and loss on the company and shareholders. The fact that he won't, shows just how deep his cause is to him. He'll only do stand up when the terms are favorable, i.e., when the majority powers that be agree with the cause. That's hypocritical.
You are an idiot. People fight battles they can win.
Comments
Well said. This form of being a jackass is also on the wrong side of evolution.
Tim IS being hypocritical, but it doesn't mean he's a horrible person for it. It's fallacy to imply that his hypocrisy only hinges on the hypocrisy of others. Could others also be engaging in hypocrisy? Yes, but that doesn't somehow mean that Tim isn't because they "are too." If what you say is true then everybody has their own moments, which I believe to be true myself. That's why i'm more in the the camp of just calling it for what it is, because everybody has moments when they shrink back from their true feelings out of fear of losing something. No condemnation from me, just calling it what it is.
That word doesn't mean what you think it means.
If the law was saying "everyone must engage in the gay sex orgy after a wedding", you might have a point. But I don't think there's anything in the bible about "Thou shalt not take wheat and yeast and make confections for men who lie with each other". (There are parts that suggest what you should do is murder them, but I presume you're neither suggesting that is what the proverbial Christian Baker should do when a gay couple asks for a wedding cake nor that the baker escape any penalty if he were to do that.) (At least I really, really, really hope you're not suggesting that.) If you believe that gay sex is immoral, imperils your soul, or merely really really icky to think about, you should not engage in it. That does not justify discriminating against those who do not believe is is immoral nor imperils their soul nor find it at all icky to think about.
First, please read the comment that this was in response to. It was a direct response at a quoted scripture, I wasn't at all even referring to anything that you're talking about. It was strictly to prove a point about the previous comment to myself.
As far as what you're talking, I don't have it in me to take it that far with you honestly. It will definitely be tl;dr, so I'll do us solid and spare us both. Have a good day sir.
Legal system isn't secular, neither is the economic one for that matter. Been in court lately? You still swear on a Bible last I checked. And despite the efforts to remove the displays, the Ten Commandments largely form the basis of our laws.
Businesses have the right to turn away customers. Heck, Tim does this all the time. He told people who wanted ROI to get out of the stock. Wasn't very tolerant of him, was it?
The Ten Commandments largely form the basis of our laws? So not honoring your parents is a crime? It's illegal not to worship the Judeochristian God and hold any other Gods before Him? And while the Bible is still used as a holdover from older days, it is not required.
Tim Cook did not say "We're going to examine the donations of our customers and remotely disable any who deny the truth of Global Warming". He just said "If you're not willing to accept that we will run the business along these lines, you should sell your stock".
The fact is that Tim has used his position to do what a smart businessman would not do. That is put your needs in front of the companies. He can be waterer he wants to be but when he took the job he took the money. He only pics the small battles, unlike steve jobs.
The fact is that Tim has used his position to do what a smart businessman would not do. That is put your needs in front of the companies. He can be waterer he wants to be but when he took the job he took the money. He only pics the small battles, unlike steve jobs.
Given the number of companies whose leadership has made similar statements - odd how our biggest companies are lead by businessmen who are not smart.
From James Mellaart, The Earliest Civilizations of the Near East, about the excavations at the town of Çatal Hüyük, Anatolia, dating from about 4000 years before Moses:
"There was no war for a thousand years."
Compare to your Bible, written in the era of nomadic goatherd petty warlords, wherein there is constant war.
Given the number of companies whose leadership has made similar statements - odd how our biggest companies are lead by businessmen who are not smart.
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/04/over-40-us-tech-leaders-urge-legislators-to-forbid-lgbt-discrimination/
Sincerely,
Max Levchin, CEO, Affirm
Mark Pincus, Chairman, Zynga
Jeremy Stoppelman, CEO, Yelp
Marc Benioff, CEO, Salesforce
Jack Dorsey, CEO, Square
Dick Costolo, CEO, Twitter
Logan Green, CEO, Lyft
Brian Chesky, CEO, Airbnb
Joe Gebbia, CPO, Airbnb
Nathan Blecharczyk, CTO, Airbnb
Ron Conway, Founder, SV Angel
John Donahoe, CEO, Ebay
Paul Graham, CoFounder, YCombinator
Rich Barton, Chairman, Zillow Group
Chad Hurley, CEO, Mixbit
Adora Cheung, CEO, Homejoy
Phil Libin, CEO, Evernote
Trevor Traina, CEO, IfOnly
Nirav Tolia, CEO, Nextdoor
Dion Lim, CEO, NextLesson
Bret Taylor, CEO, Quip
Joe Lonsdale, Managing Partner, Formation 8
Thomas Layton, Chairman, Elance-odesk
Fabio Rosati, CEO, Elance-odesk
Dave Morin, CEO, Path
Mark Goldstein, Chairman, BackOps
Kevin Rose, CEO, North Technologies
Yves Behar, CCO, Jawbone
Padmasree Warrior, CTSO, Cisco Systems
Tony Conrad, CEO, about.me
Sunil Paul, CEO, Sidecar
Michael Moritz, Chairman, Sequoia Capital
Dan Schulman, President, PayPal
Devin Wenig, President, eBay Marketplaces
Robert Hohman, CEO, Glassdoor
Laurene Powell Jobs, Founder and Chair, Emerson Collective
Mohan Warrior, CEO, Alphalight
David Spector, CEO, ThirdLove
--
Post Release:
Shervin Pishevar, CoFounder, Sherpa Ventures
David Karp, CEO, Tumblr
Reid Hoffman, Chairman, Linkedin
Kevin Ryan, Chairman, Gilt
Michael Birch, CoFounder, Bebo
Hosain Rahman, CEO, Jawbone
John Zimmer, President, Lyft
Bill Ready, CEO, Braintree
Jon Oringer, CEO, Shutterstock Images
Drew Houston, CEO, Dropbox
Bijan Sabet, General Partner, Spark Capital
Douglas Merrill, CEO, ZestFinance
Tom Sheahan, CEO, RedOxygen
Brian Samelson, CEO, eMaint.com
Jeff Weiner, CEO, LinkedIn
Daniel Lurie, CEO, Tipping Point Community
Aaron Levie, CEO, Box
Jeff Weiner, CEO, Linkedin
Gary Moore, President & COO, Cisco
Travis Katz, CEO, Gogobot
Joe Davis, CEO, Webtrends
Satya Nadella, CEO, Microsoft
Brad Smith, Executive Vice President and General Counsel, Microsoft
Josh Kopelman, Partner, First Round Capital
Rob Glaser, CEO, Realnetworks
Brian Krzanich, CEO, Intel
He can vote in the U.S. and he can chose not to make or sell in china.
Gay rights is the most pressing issue in America? Well, I didn't realize that the country was no longer in a depression, with a failing infrastructure, massive unemployment, a gargantuan national debt, failing entitlement programs, a defunct education system, a huge illegal immigration problem, and a largely ignorant populace. Clearly, 'gay rights' trumps all those. :roll eyes:
Exacly!!! Really, why should your rights trump my rights! Why not just legalize Polygamy!!! Why not, they have just as much rights!!! While we're at it, what'as wrong with a 50 year old and a 16 year old? They have just as much rights as everyone else!!! Where does it end?
I don't give a crap what you do in your bedroom. I really don't care if you want to marry. Good for you. As long as you don't try forcing some church to do it or a business to cater to their believes. It's not Raciest, it's not Sexists. Find someone who will. To me it seems dumb to turn away any business these days. Because the money is still green.
Quite frankly I think the Government shouldn't even be in the marriage business!!! Anything can already be done with the lawyer.
Tim Cook as are many others are Hypocrites. Not once said a thing about gay rights anywhere else in the world. Places where being gay gets you killed. I'm all for Gay people having guns for protection. 100% of Apple devices are made in CHINA with terrible human rights. Sold around the world where people are getting murdered by the thousands and yet NOTHING!!! How about stopping iphone sales in Indiana and other states with these laws if you're so offended. That's here right in the U.S. after all. You can't say it's in some other country. Oh wait, the all mighty dollar trumps everything else.
To me I don't really give a crap. I'm a atheist. This is just something else to keep people looking the other way and ignoring the real problems of this country which you listed!!! I have my iPhone 6, iPad 3 and 3 AppleTV 3's. My Dad who lost his house and moved into mine has his Mac Mini, iPad 2 and iPhone 6 also. Lots of Apple products in my house.
Wanna see someone call Tim Cook a hypocrite, imagine him lecturing the Chinese and them saying, "Hey, look what's going on in your stupid country, you're going backwards in Indiana, Arkansas and twenty other states." Tim: "Well, I tried to tell them . . ."
Chinese official: "Apple has a lot of glass houses here."
What is so hard about this chain of reasoning for you? Convicting him of hypocrisy without an argument based on whether he has a moral high ground over another sovereign country is plainly simplistic.
That same scripture instructs us to love our neighbor as we love ourselves. That's plenty compassion, and humanity beyond measure.
The same places that Go out and help and feed the poor around the world!!! When was the last time anyone around here volunteered to do anything to help the poor? The Government has had a war on Poverty for the last 50 years and it's no better now then it was 50 years ago. Giving people free stuff, just creates more people wanting free stuff.
This. There's too much binary thinking going on. I can criticize one decision he's made, it doesn't mean I hate the man. But I don't think he's doing Apple a favor here, and the action is hypocritical.
I absolutely agree with you man! ;-)
Because Tim cook has clearly not figured out this 'long-term' thing.
Exactly. I've said numerous times in the past that I would prefer that Apple were not political at all, but that hasn't been the case. They have chosen to speak out on a number of issues, and that is of course their choice, but it also opens them up to criticism or to accusations of hypocrisy, as we see in this case.
Totally! You hit the nail on the head.
If you are not gay in one of those states where do you go, if your neighbor thinks you are?
Martinus
Christian, Brazilian and not Gay, but feel no hate or whatsoever agains gay people.
Worth quoting for Page 5 here. Thanks.
Gotta pick your battles.
Do you really think Cook speaking against things happening in SA will do anything? Really?
Who the hell says it has to do something? He can still speak out anywhere at any time on anything. He's well known and talks to many high up people around the world. Doesn't those country will do anything to change, but SO WHAT!!!!!
Exacly!!! Really, why should your rights trump my rights! Why not just legalize Polygamy!!! Why not, they have just as much rights!!! While we're at it, what'as wrong with a 50 year old and a 16 year old? They have just as much rights as everyone else!!! Where does it end?
I don't give a crap what you do in your bedroom. I really don't care if you want to marry. Good for you. As long as you don't try forcing some church to do it or a business to cater to their believes. It's not Raciest, it's not Sexists. Find someone who will. To me it seems dumb to turn away any business these days. Because the money is still green.
Quite frankly I think the Government shouldn't even be in the marriage business!!! Anything can already be done with the lawyer.
Tim Cook as are many others are Hypocrites. Not once said a thing about gay rights anywhere else in the world. Places where being gay gets you killed. I'm all for Gay people having guns for protection. 100% of Apple devices are made in CHINA with terrible human rights. Sold around the world where people are getting murdered by the thousands and yet NOTHING!!! How about stopping iphone sales in Indiana and other states with these laws if you're so offended. That's here right in the U.S. after all. You can't say it's in some other country. Oh wait, the all mighty dollar trumps everything else.
To me I don't really give a crap. I'm a atheist. This is just something else to keep people looking the other way and ignoring the real problems of this country which you listed!!! I have my iPhone 6, iPad 3 and 3 AppleTV 3's. My Dad who lost his house and moved into mine has his Mac Mini, iPad 2 and iPhone 6 also. Lots of Apple products in my house.
Wow. Just ... wow.
You are an idiot. People fight battles they can win.