Could’ve sworn he didn’t disclose anything to them… He didn’t give them the data the NSA had been collecting, after all.
I’m almost 100% sure that’s not how public domain works. Otherwise there are a fair few people who were arrested or fined for copyright “infringement” (really: infringement) who require apologies.
Sorry like to discuss this further but iPad dictation sucks so bad that I can't
In terms of terrorism, the U.S. Government can't point to a single case where terrorism was stopped due to NSA surveillance. In fact, the opposite is true: even when the NSA or FBI knew about a potential terrorist and was monitoring them to some extent, they failed to stop them from taking action. This was true with the Boston bombers as well as many other recent events. How is it that some of the 9/11 terrorists were permitted to go to flight school in the U.S.? Monitoring their phone calls wouldn't have helped anything.
You speak as if you are serving or had served in the U.S. intelligence community. Were you at Langley? Fort Meade? Somewhere in DC? Would really like to know how you know that NSA surveillance has not stopped a single case of terrorism. Please advise from what compartmented program you learned this startling disclosure, because, to make such a bold statement, you surely are or were a holder of a TS/SCI clearance.
Sarcasm aside, I implore you to consider that it might just be the case that NSA is not going to issued a press release when they are successful. To suggest otherwise betrays a complete lack of familiarity with the business.
As Rand Paul said, he probably should see some jail time (to be determined), however he should share a cell with James Clapper, head of the FBI, for blatantly lying to Congress. Clapper committed perjury with his testimony, while Snowden exposed unconstitutional spying and data collection by the NSA.
Jim Clapper is Director of National Intelligence, not head of the FBI. I think a strong argument can be made that General Clapper did his job by not disclosing a critical classified program in an open committee run by self-aggrandizing politicians.
Well, the thieving white techie boy messiah speaks from his Russian lair to the delight of his acolytes! He was unelected and un-chosen to steal over a million documents and release them by fiat to much cheering, now he's offering his critic's pix for mobile operating systems. Great for iOS techie boyz he has formally blessed it, otherwise you'd be despondent about what to do.
He didn't have to disclose data to commit his treason against the US. The existence of the programs, processes, targets, equipment, etc., were and mostly still are classified. I haven't even read any of the direct reports on them, as I don't have a need to know.
Let's pretend the American government is illegally and covertly killing Americans on American soil because of political reasons. If a Navy Seal that is privy to these operations whistleblows on this illegal activity, is he a traitor because SCOTUS hadn't decided if this killing was constitutional or not? Now replace illegally covert killing American citizens with illegally covert spying on American citizens. Or put any other illegal activity in there for that matter. When is it ok for a government worker to whistleblow on illegal government activity?
edward snowden said pioneers like apple so his attention is not just to apple. also people thinking that this allows criminals to organize crime then start a waver to allow the government to open your mail and install cameras in your house
He didn't have to disclose data to commit his treason against the US. The existence of the programs, processes, targets, equipment, etc., were and mostly still are classified. I haven't even read any of the direct reports on them, as I don't have a need to know.
Let's pretend the American government is illegally and covertly killing Americans on American soil because of political reasons. If a Navy Seal that is privy to these operations whistleblows on this illegal activity, is he a traitor because SCOTUS hadn't decided if this killing was constitutional or not? Now replace illegally covert killing American citizens with illegally covert spying on American citizens. Or put any other illegal activity in there for that matter. When is it ok for a government worker to whistleblow on illegal government activity?
Leaving aside, for a moment, the question of whether that is a reasonable parallel, and even accepting that the surveillance activities may not have been properly authorized under U.S. law, the problem is that he chose not to take the whistleblower route (which would have been completely within his right and the law), but instead to embark on deliberate, widespread acquisition and disclosure of enormous quantities of classified information. That is illegal, does constitute espionage, and leaves him open to charges of treason.
He didn't have to disclose data to commit his treason against the US. The existence of the programs, processes, targets, equipment, etc., were and mostly still are classified. I haven't even read any of the direct reports on them, as I don't have a need to know.
The programs exposed were also blatantly unconstitutional. Snowden did the right thing, at great personal risk and cost to himself.
Let's pretend the American government is illegally and covertly killing Americans on American soil because of political reasons. If a Navy Seal that is privy to these operations whistleblows on this illegal activity, is he a traitor because SCOTUS hadn't decided if this killing was constitutional or not? Now replace illegally covert killing American citizens with illegally covert spying on American citizens. Or put any other illegal activity in there for that matter. When is it ok for a government worker to whistleblow on illegal government activity?
It's not just a matter of legality. Laws may still be unconstitutional. The Constitution is the supreme law of the U.S.
Let's pretend the American government is illegally and covertly killing Americans on American soil because of political reasons. If a Navy Seal that is privy to these operations whistleblows on this illegal activity, is he a traitor because SCOTUS hadn't decided if this killing was constitutional or not? Now replace illegally covert killing American citizens with illegally covert spying on American citizens. Or put any other illegal activity in there for that matter. When is it ok for a government worker to whistleblow on illegal government activity?
This is a weak argument. Murder is illegal. Murder for political reasons is a terrorist activity and is also illegal.
There are laws on the books.
Stealing classified information is illegal.
Let's say Snowden stole the nuclear launch codes and the location of the nuclear warheads and release it to the public. Is that not a traitorous act?
The programs exposed were also blatantly unconstitutional. Snowden did the right thing, at great personal risk and cost to himself.
That's fine. Let's say we just go ahead and dismiss that portion of the charges. I'm 100% fine with that. Bringing that stuff out into the open is very heroic in many ways.
He would still easily be convicted as a traitor for the global surveillance secrets he's exposed. This has clearly harmed the United States and our allies. He continues to attempt to leverage our nation's secrets in hopes of reducing his charges, which is more asshole than hero.
since im guessing none of us know each other IRL, it can be impossible to detect sarcasm from a random guy on the interwebs. /s tag exists for a reason.
What about /s/s ?
It means "the opposite of the opposite of what I wrote."
By extension, /s/s/s is "the opposite of the opposite of the opposite".
He didn't have to disclose data to commit his treason against the US.
If he disclosed nothing, he definitionally didn’t commit treason, as there was therefore no “aid.”
The existence of the programs, processes, targets, equipment, etc., were and mostly still are classified.
They’re also illegal, so it doesn’t matter how classified they were.
Originally Posted by waterrockets
This has clearly harmed the United States and our allies.
Uncovering illegal government activity has HARMED the US? Hardly. Truth is never wrong.
He continues to attempt to leverage our nation’s secrets…
Again, what secrets–other than the existence of illegal programs–has he spread? I’m all for what he does as long as he doesn’t resort to actually revealing information (troop positions, plans, movements, construction, etc. and other information that would subvert free of military, economic, or political execution).
To the U.S. alphabet agencies that spy on its citizens, this country has over 300 million potential terrorists in it and they believe that none of us deserve what the U.S. Constitution guarantees us. Included in their definition of terrorist is anyone not a member of the upper 1%, and may want to change an economic system that fails to work for us.
They’re also illegal, so it doesn’t matter how classified they were.
Snowden's disclosures, include non-domestic CIA and NSA classified information, about programs that have nothing to do with US citizens other than to protect them. The disclosures also include constitutionally illegal domestic programs.
Heroism in disclosing the domestic transgressions against US citizens does not excuse disclosing true national defense interests.
Comments
Sorry like to discuss this further but iPad dictation sucks so bad that I can't
You speak as if you are serving or had served in the U.S. intelligence community. Were you at Langley? Fort Meade? Somewhere in DC? Would really like to know how you know that NSA surveillance has not stopped a single case of terrorism. Please advise from what compartmented program you learned this startling disclosure, because, to make such a bold statement, you surely are or were a holder of a TS/SCI clearance.
Sarcasm aside, I implore you to consider that it might just be the case that NSA is not going to issued a press release when they are successful. To suggest otherwise betrays a complete lack of familiarity with the business.
Jim Clapper is Director of National Intelligence, not head of the FBI. I think a strong argument can be made that General Clapper did his job by not disclosing a critical classified program in an open committee run by self-aggrandizing politicians.
Well, the thieving white techie boy messiah speaks from his Russian lair to the delight of his acolytes! He was unelected and un-chosen to steal over a million documents and release them by fiat to much cheering, now he's offering his critic's pix for mobile operating systems. Great for iOS techie boyz he has formally blessed it, otherwise you'd be despondent about what to do.
He didn't have to disclose data to commit his treason against the US. The existence of the programs, processes, targets, equipment, etc., were and mostly still are classified. I haven't even read any of the direct reports on them, as I don't have a need to know.
Let's pretend the American government is illegally and covertly killing Americans on American soil because of political reasons. If a Navy Seal that is privy to these operations whistleblows on this illegal activity, is he a traitor because SCOTUS hadn't decided if this killing was constitutional or not? Now replace illegally covert killing American citizens with illegally covert spying on American citizens. Or put any other illegal activity in there for that matter. When is it ok for a government worker to whistleblow on illegal government activity?
I was merely pointing out that the FBI does indeed stop attacks, and probably do it the old fashioned way with good police work.
Leaving aside, for a moment, the question of whether that is a reasonable parallel, and even accepting that the surveillance activities may not have been properly authorized under U.S. law, the problem is that he chose not to take the whistleblower route (which would have been completely within his right and the law), but instead to embark on deliberate, widespread acquisition and disclosure of enormous quantities of classified information. That is illegal, does constitute espionage, and leaves him open to charges of treason.
The programs exposed were also blatantly unconstitutional. Snowden did the right thing, at great personal risk and cost to himself.
It's not just a matter of legality. Laws may still be unconstitutional. The Constitution is the supreme law of the U.S.
This is a weak argument. Murder is illegal. Murder for political reasons is a terrorist activity and is also illegal.
There are laws on the books.
Stealing classified information is illegal.
Let's say Snowden stole the nuclear launch codes and the location of the nuclear warheads and release it to the public. Is that not a traitorous act?
But Snowden didn't release nuclear launch codes, he exposed "legal", but unconstitutional activities. What he did can only be described as heroic.
The programs exposed were also blatantly unconstitutional. Snowden did the right thing, at great personal risk and cost to himself.
That's fine. Let's say we just go ahead and dismiss that portion of the charges. I'm 100% fine with that. Bringing that stuff out into the open is very heroic in many ways.
He would still easily be convicted as a traitor for the global surveillance secrets he's exposed. This has clearly harmed the United States and our allies. He continues to attempt to leverage our nation's secrets in hopes of reducing his charges, which is more asshole than hero.
since im guessing none of us know each other IRL, it can be impossible to detect sarcasm from a random guy on the interwebs. /s tag exists for a reason.
What about /s/s ?
It means "the opposite of the opposite of what I wrote."
By extension, /s/s/s is "the opposite of the opposite of the opposite".
He didn't have to disclose data to commit his treason against the US.
If he disclosed nothing, he definitionally didn’t commit treason, as there was therefore no “aid.”
They’re also illegal, so it doesn’t matter how classified they were.
This has clearly harmed the United States and our allies.
Uncovering illegal government activity has HARMED the US? Hardly. Truth is never wrong.
Again, what secrets–other than the existence of illegal programs–has he spread? I’m all for what he does as long as he doesn’t resort to actually revealing information (troop positions, plans, movements, construction, etc. and other information that would subvert free of military, economic, or political execution).
...comfortable in your padded cell?...
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.” -Ben Franklin
http://www.lawfareblog.com/2011/07/what-ben-franklin-really-said/
They’re also illegal, so it doesn’t matter how classified they were.
Snowden's disclosures, include non-domestic CIA and NSA classified information, about programs that have nothing to do with US citizens other than to protect them. The disclosures also include constitutionally illegal domestic programs.
Heroism in disclosing the domestic transgressions against US citizens does not excuse disclosing true national defense interests.