Apple Store employees complained directly to Tim Cook over bag search policy

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  • Reply 61 of 132
    SpamSandwichspamsandwich Posts: 33,407member
    blastdoor wrote: »
    If Apple has lost that spirit among its retail employees then I think it's a failure of management that needs to be corrected. I appreciate that it may be more difficult to maintain that spirit on a larger scale, but they MUST do it if they want to be true to themselves and maintain their success longer term. 

    Apple retail should not be judged by the typical standards of retail. It should be judged by the standards of Apple. 

    No retailer is immune to theft.
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  • Reply 62 of 132

    Apple requires employees to be physically present in the store.  This means Apple also requires them to travel to/from the store.  So if Apple should compensate workers for bag search time, shouldn't they also compensate workers for their travel time too?  Why should employees travel on their own time if its an Apple requirement to come to work?

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  • Reply 63 of 132
    SpamSandwichspamsandwich Posts: 33,407member
    apres587 wrote: »
    Apple requires employees to be physically present in the store.  This means Apple also requires them to travel to/from the store.  So if Apple should compensate workers for bag search time, shouldn't they also compensate workers for their travel time too?  Why should employees travel on their own time if its an Apple requirement to come to work?

    Forget something? Namely, the "/s"?
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  • Reply 64 of 132
    waterrocketswaterrockets Posts: 1,231member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post



    Sad, but Apple Stores seem to have a victim of its own success. I worked for one during the first two years of their existence. There was a genuine esprit de corps; we felt special. Loss prevention was aimed at shoppers, not us. Apple recruited genuine Apple fanboys and girls. We still had the spirit of the pirate flag among us. Now, the sales force need is so great they probably hire laid-off Microsoft store employees. I can't imagine any of the people I worked with stealing. Some of us were stockholders.



    Still, having said all this, I'd like to see the figures. How much loss is attributable to staff versus customers? Is it enough to justify body searches? What if they are "normal" for retail? Apple has "not being normal" DNA. Even companies like Nordstrom and In 'N' Out have fiercely loyal employees— there's no law that says employees have to be considered untrustworthy. Trust and respect work both ways. I hope Apple's penchant for bringing in retail chiefs from outside hasn't poisoned the well.

     

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  • Reply 65 of 132
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member

    If you don't want your bag searched, don't bring a bag to work.

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  • Reply 66 of 132
    bwikbwik Posts: 566member
    Apple should vary the search policy by store. They probably feel they can't because of potential "protected class" liability.

    Certain Apple Stores likely have 0 employee theft. Certain Apple Stores likely have $millions in employee theft. Apple knows exactly which stores have the problem.

    Likely, New York City stores have sophisticated theft gangs within the Apple employee base itself.
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  • Reply 67 of 132
    davidwdavidw Posts: 2,184member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post

     

     


     

    The thing the chart doesn't show is that employees theft is the result of a lot fewer thieves than shoplifting customers. I remember reading something like 1 dishonest employee can steal as much as 20 customers shoplifting. Plus employees have access to many of the high price items that customers don't.  

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  • Reply 68 of 132
    zoetmbzoetmb Posts: 2,657member

    I'm going to disagree with most of the posts here.   I think that you treat your employees with respect.  If you don't trust them, don't hire them in the first place or get rid of them if you've already hired them.

     

    There are also other ways around the security issue as others have suggested, such as having a separate locker area or RFI controls.   

     

    Obviously, no employee is walking out with a computer box - it's too large.   The issues are phones, iPads, watches, etc.   But if they're kept in a secure place with some methodology that only releases a unit when there's a sale, it seems to me that it would be (or should be) impossible for an employee to steal a unit.   Maybe they're stored in some kind of vending machine and the employee must scan a barcode from a sale in order for the machine to release the unit.  Or maybe, just maybe, it's as simple as using an employee to monitor the removal of all stocked items.   What will that cost Apple - $13 an hour per store?   Seems like a bargain if employees are really trying to pilfer stock. 

     

    Or you simply record all activity in the stock area and if an item goes missing, you go back and "review the tape" and see if each removal of stock was accompanied by a related sale.   

     

    Even without that, with a real-time inventory system, a store should know by 'the next morning' if anything had been stolen.

     

    Although it was decades ago, I worked in retail and there were no bag checks.   They did have a plainclothes security person working undercover in the department to see if anyone was stealing anything, but he never found any issues.     

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  • Reply 69 of 132
    paxmanpaxman Posts: 4,729member
    lkrupp wrote: »
    It’s too bad employers cannot trust their employees, and with good reason. American culture has degenerated into an entitlement hellhole. The culture teaches you that all employers are evil and exploit their workers and therefore you entitle yourself to steal what you think should be yours anyway. I mean just look at the culture that says it’s okay to steal music and software because the RIAA and MPAA are labeled as evil. We see that attitude in AI every time there’s an article about it. Add the fact that Apple products are premium products with premium prices and the temptation/entitlement factor goes way up. A retired friend of mine works for Walmart (because he wants out of the house, not because he needs to) Employee theft is rampant,even more than the shoplifters. Look at airline baggage handlers rifling through passenger possessions. 

    Bottom line, no employer can trust their employees these days. It’s a sad comment on American culture as it exists these days. 
    I don't necessarily disagree, but you have to look at it from the other point of view as well. It definitely is not a one way street. Employers do not trust their employees and go out of their way to pay them as little as possible which obviously fosters an 'us against them' relationship. If you step back for a minute and look at how much many companies make (absolutely Apple, too), perhaps the question should not be 'how little can we possibly get away with paying our workers?', but instead, 'how much?'. We live in an 'entitlement' culture' for sure, but that applies equally to employers, and citizens generally who so often will prioritize number one over the common good. It wasn't always thus and in the end it comes down to a bigger question about the kind of world we want to live in.

    Bottom line, few employees can trust their employer these days. etc....
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  • Reply 70 of 132
    waterrocketswaterrockets Posts: 1,231member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DavidW View Post

     

     

    The thing the chart doesn't show is that employees theft is the result of a lot fewer thieves than shoplifting customers. I remember reading something like 1 dishonest employee can steal as much as 20 customers shoplifting. Plus employees have access to many of the high price items that customers don't.  


     

    Yeah, if you compare the number of employees who work at the store vs. the number of customers who buy there, it's a huge difference. Then consider that those few people still truck out more merch than the shoplifters, it's substantial.

     

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by zoetmb View Post

     

     The issues are phones, iPads, watches, etc.  


     

    Do you have a citation for this? There are certainly considerable losses from cases, mice, cables, phone mounts, etc. And that's just the merchandise.

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  • Reply 71 of 132
    I would just resign my job
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  • Reply 72 of 132
    h2ph2p Posts: 342member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by DavidW View Post

     

    The Supreme Courts have already ruled against the employees in cases of searches done off the clock, when the search is not part of the employees job description.  Apple employees are not above the Supreme Court. 

     

    http://www.cnet.com/news/supreme-court-amazon-doesnt-have-to-pay-workers-for-security-check-hours/


    Thank you, this illuminates the issue perfectly.

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  • Reply 73 of 132
    adonissmuadonissmu Posts: 1,776member
    mazecookie wrote: »

    Wrong. I work in Apple Retail, and what you have just said is complete and utter rubbish. Nice try, though.



    What a ridiculous thing to say. "If you don't want a bag search, then quit." It not about what they want, it's about compensation. You are the simple one.

    I know plenty, as in hundreds, of Apple Retail staff. Nobody minds whatsoever. They just want to be paid for the wait, rightfully.

    It's an occupational hazard that should be compensated by the company. Staff don't require it. The company does, it should be at the companies expense.

    Please, logic.
    I agree with you in that the staff should be paid for this time. But these people are doing the most claiming routine bag searches are dehumanizing.
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  • Reply 74 of 132
    mac_dogmac_dog Posts: 1,109member
    how about creating a separate employee area (with changing area, lockers, restroom, etc) that is separate from the store. an entrance to the store with metal detector & security would settle this nicely. employees would be allowed in with their uniform (t-shirt & jeans) and nothing else, perhaps an i.d.

    i realize i'm in the minority here, but imo, people don't need their personal phones on them while working. if they need phones, the company should provide them.
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  • Reply 75 of 132
    ktappektappe Posts: 830member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TheWhiteFalcon View Post

     

    I lose any sympathy I might have had because this is a California lawsuit.


     

    Translation: "I consider CA residents sub-human. I am a bigot."

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  • Reply 76 of 132
    ktappektappe Posts: 830member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by rhbellmor View Post



    I don't understand why an employee is concerned about being checked before leaving an Apple Store. As a customer that uses his iPhone to purchase products without the assistance of a sales clerk on my way out of the store I always show the receipt on my iPhone to the Apple employee at the store. I feel better letting someone know I have paid for what I am walking out with.

     

    I call shenanigans. I have *never* been approached by anyone upon leaving an Apple Store after a purchase or service. *Ever*. There aren't even people stationed at the door for me to show my receipt to if I wanted to.

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  • Reply 77 of 132
    ktappektappe Posts: 830member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by AdonisSMU View Post

     

    The solution is simple. If you don't want a bag search, then quit. Don't work in retail if you don't want your bag searched as you walk out the door. I mean that's an occupational hazard. You know what you're getting. 


     

    Apparently Tim Cook disagrees with you, considering he wrote "Is this true?" upon learning of the practice. I will side with Tim Cook over your attitude.

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  • Reply 78 of 132

    Then don't work at Apple or any other reputable retail chain.

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  • Reply 79 of 132
    waterrocketswaterrockets Posts: 1,231member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ktappe View Post

     

     

    Apparently Tim Cook disagrees with you, considering he wrote "Is this true?" upon learning of the practice. I will side with Tim Cook over your attitude.


     

    I'm sure we're all shocked that a 1%-er doesn't have enough retail experience to understand what those jobs are like. He's probably as disconnected as whoever decided to name these bag check victims "Geniuses."

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  • Reply 80 of 132



    Guess my post wasn't clear enough.  No one at Apple says anything to me when I am walking out the door.  I always approach an employee near the door to show my receipt.  I am just uncomfortable walking out with stuff.  There is almost always someone near the door to greet you and ask if they can help you.

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