Apple has target ship date of 2019 for electric car project, but it won't be self driving - report

1234568

Comments

  • Reply 141 of 166
    wigbywigby Posts: 692member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sflagel View Post

     

    The reason that cops in the US conduct so much traffic and speeding checks and stop you (rather than just taking a picture when speeding) is to condition the population to be constantly in fear of the police. It is a means of psychological subjugation.




    It's not about fear so much as it's about revenue. Police were originally designed to fight crime but when crime rates go down or there are too many cops on a particular beat, they literally have nothing to do. So the business minds behind government got the brilliant idea to have them generate revenue during their "off" hours.

  • Reply 142 of 166
    cornchipcornchip Posts: 1,911member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Blastdoor View Post

     



    Selling cars directly to individuals is an incredibly complex and expensive thing to do, particularly if you want to do it at the scale of existing players. Apple would need to build a large number of show rooms and repair facilities in the countries where they sell their car. Apple can afford to do that, of course, but making it profitable is the key, and Apple isn't entering this business to lose money. If you think people are going to order these cars off the Internet without a test drive you're nuts. People would expect a retail experience for their car that is on par with the retail experience they get with their other apple products and with other cars. Delivering that retail experience is possible, but very expensive -- probably not worth it. 

     

    Apple's history is one of innovation and adaptation -- of Thinking Different. Just because they've never done something before, that doesn't mean they won't do it in the future. Apple evaluates ideas based on their merit, not on whether they've ever done it before. 


     

    It's as if two different people wrote your first and second paragraphs.

  • Reply 143 of 166
    wigbywigby Posts: 692member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sflagel View Post

     

    What exactly is it about cars today that sucks?

     

    They are incredibly safe, having many passive (seat belts, airbags, crumple zones), as well as active (ABS, ASS, emergency breaking) safety features. They also consume less and less petrol (and EV will become de- facto standard by 2025); have a very smooth ride, quick acceleration, stable cornering, and are easy to drive. 

     

    What sucks is the attitude of people who get sucked into believing they need a new car every 4 years. The car manufacturers did an incredible job making people believe that they should spend £ 800 per month (depreciation, petrol, insurance, servicing, etc) to get from A to B in something as expensive as possible. Hence over-sized SUV, low car sharing rates, new safety equipment only found on luxury models before they go mainstream. People always find a way to show off, it would have been better if they stuck to jewels rather than cars with their high externality cost.




    How many decades did it take for the auto industry to get an average of 25MPG? They cannot be separated from the oil industry and have all intentionally stifled innovation in this country. The same cannot be said for many cars from other countries. 

     

    How come my computing power doubles every 2 years and prices drop but cars don't get faster, more efficient and the price only increases? I understand these are 2 completely different markets but we had electric cars before we ever had combustion engines. At least with electric cars you have a relationship with tech that can lead to upgrades and improvements during the life of that car. Combustion engines always had too many moving parts and delivered much more power than anyone needed or even wanted unless they were racing.

     

    How awful is the resale value on every car? I get better resale value on an iPhone (which is already obsolete when I purchase it)

     

    What's the number one killer of Americans that is not health related? Cars and traffic accidents. The rate has gone down but mostly because of drunk driving initiatives, not because of car safety implementations.

     

    And what about those great entertainment systems built into cars? They are so good that they have given over that space to  Apple and Android now because they are so incompetent at figuring out what consumers really want. We don't care about pick up and top speed, we just want a way to safely listen to music while getting from point A to B.

  • Reply 144 of 166
    wigbywigby Posts: 692member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by dtrace View Post

     

     

    I absolutely agree that cars today do suck and that more than Tesla is needed.  I'm not crapping on Apple for (supposedly) getting into cars, I'm just being sensible and saying let the rich, or the risk takers buy rev 1.  Cars should have had many technologies long before now, and many aren't even here yet.  Hybrids were long overdue when the first Prius came out in like 1997.  Adaptive cruise control (which would help with the rubber neckers) should have been standard equipment years ago.  I think the only car maker who cares at all about safety is Volvo, and definitely not as much as they used to.  Self driving cars are a monumental leap, and I'm OK with that being baked slowly to get it right.  No fault on Apple for not making a self driving car, that's a case where the technology really isn't quite here yet, but it will be soon enough.

     

    But why do cars suck?  Because they are designed to sell to people who like image, style over substance, flash over functionality.  Do we need a car with 700hp?  Do we need an SUV so large it could double as a log cabin?  Car makers are tasked with making cars people will buy, and people generally still tend to want this kind of garbage.  A society full of EVs rather than gasoline cars would do wonders for the environment and society...but the majority still wants loud, dumb, flashy cars.  That's why I don't like the attitude I'm seeing here of buying Apple things simply because they're expensive.  It's just more of that stupid, materialistic consumerism flash.  I would love it it Apple came out with a $30,000 EV that was modest yet highly useful, that had enough technology to truly set it apart and challenge Tesla, let alone GM or Toyota.  But based on the overwhelmingly negative feedback I'm getting on this thread, I'm gonna guess the Apple car will be something like a solid gold BMW i3...fugly, not a game changer at all, designed to impress rather than improve anything, and with a user experience not unlike iOS 7 - a frustrating disaster.  BUT IT COMES IN GOLD!!!!! /s




    The car industry has been mostly about style or substance much longer than the computer industry. Apple understood that in order to get regular consumers interested in computers, they need to be friendly and approachable before they need to be powerful. They still hold to these principles but the tech industry has become so commoditized that Apple can only stay in business by appealing to the high end of the market. Maybe they will approach cars differently because cars are a different beast but it's hard to believe their first car effort won't be a luxury ride simply just to pay back for all the billions in R&D they are doing now. I think Apple execs agree with your vision of a $30k EV but it's a hard business model that flies in the face of everything Apple has built in the last 30 years.

  • Reply 145 of 166
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by wigby View Post

     

    How come my computing power doubles every 2 years and prices drop but cars don't get faster, more efficient and the price only increases? I understand these are 2 completely different markets but we had electric cars before we ever had combustion engines. 


     

    The efficiency of engines does not increase because of physics. Silicon chips get faster because thy get smaller; cars get faster because the energy stored in petrol is converted more efficiently. But there is a limit (and if you use energy storage that is denser than petrol, like uranium, it tends to blow up)

     

    Quote:

    How awful is the resale value on every car? I get better resale value on an iPhone (which is already obsolete when I purchase it)

     

    That is not true. A car depreciates about 50% every three years. An iPhone depreciates 50% every year. And unlike an iPhone, you can actually use a car for more than 5 years (mine is 12 years old and I have had 0 issues with it).

     

    Quote:

    And what about those great entertainment systems built into cars? They are so good that they have given over that space to  Apple and Android now because they are so incompetent at figuring out what consumers really want. We don't care about pick up and top speed, we just want a way to safely listen to music while getting from point A to B.

     

    Designing UI is hard. Very hard. That's why Apple does well. Not all entertainment systems are bad, just like not all phones are bad. If you REALLY just wanted to get from A to B, safely, with low depreciation, listening to music, you'd be driving a Seat; I doubt you do.

  • Reply 146 of 166
    mr omr o Posts: 1,046member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Blastdoor View Post

     



    The personal products are the iPhone and the Apple Watch. Transportation is a service that is attached to those products. 

     

    You're thinking too small here. The problem of transportation is much bigger than just improving the OS in cars. The worst aspects of cars today are all the extra costs, work, and responsibilities that go with car ownership. You have to pay to store them, maintain them, and driving them is generally more of a pain than fun. If you have an open road and just want to enjoy driving there already exist many cars that are fun to drive. But if your focus is transportation rather than fahrvergnugen, the existing approach to ground transportation sucks, and it's a much bigger problem than the OS in your infotainment system. 

     

    I'm guessing that Apple is thinking much bigger than you realize. They're out to change ground transportation, not just sell another car with an easier to use infotainment system. 




    + most of the time your car is idle, waiting for its driver.



    Instead, a self driving car could ...

     


    1. Pick up your children from school and bring them home.

    2. Collect your grocery shopping.

    3. Drive itself to a charging station to charge itself.

    4. Drive you to the theatre and return home* by itself. When the play is finished, it could wait for you right in front of the building. (*) This implies that the same car could be shared by different family members for different purposes on the same evening. Potentially ending family quarrels.

    5. Pick up your teenage daughter at 3:00 am after a night out.

     

    It'd be like having a personal chauffeur/butler for the whole family. Parenting is never going to be the same again :) The takeaway is that a Self Driving car will be much more in use than a Driver Operated car.

  • Reply 147 of 166
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sflagel View Post

     

    And unlike an iPhone, you can actually use a car for more than 5 years (mine is 12 years old and I have had 0 issues with it).

     


     

    One reason I'm a little leery of the new, electronics-packed cars. My wife's wagon is in the shop right now because of overly complex electronics systems. Now, I realize electric cars are much simpler in many ways, and maybe will improve quality in a lot of ways, but my daily car is 25yo and running like a champ. I'm just not into the idea of upgrading my car every 4 years. 

  • Reply 148 of 166
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sflagel View Post

     

     

    The efficiency of engines does not increase because of physics. Silicon chips get faster because thy get smaller; cars get faster because the energy stored in petrol is converted more efficiently. But there is a limit (and if you use energy storage that is denser than petrol, like uranium, it tends to blow up)

     

    Quote:

    How awful is the resale value on every car? I get better resale value on an iPhone (which is already obsolete when I purchase it)

     

    That is not true. A car depreciates about 50% every three years. An iPhone depreciates 50% every year. And unlike an iPhone, you can actually use a car for more than 5 years (mine is 12 years old and I have had 0 issues with it).

     

    Quote:

    And what about those great entertainment systems built into cars? They are so good that they have given over that space to  Apple and Android now because they are so incompetent at figuring out what consumers really want. We don't care about pick up and top speed, we just want a way to safely listen to music while getting from point A to B.

     

    Designing UI is hard. Very hard. That's why Apple does well. Not all entertainment systems are bad, just like not all phones are bad. If you REALLY just wanted to get from A to B, safely, with low depreciation, listening to music, you'd be driving a Seat; I doubt you do.


     

    You make a lot of good points but how come myself and everyone I know just see cars as a necessary evil for transportation? Kind of like the way we see PCs too. You work on a PC because you have to but when you want to be creative and connect to computer you use a Mac or iOS device. I guess I'm hoping an Apple car will make me care about cars in a way I never have before. I probably sound like a millennial but I'm 42 years old.

  • Reply 149 of 166

    the solution is LESS cars, not more.

     


    1. Pick up your children from school and bring them home.


     

    Or they take the bus or a bike so we have less cars on the road.

     



    1. Collect your grocery shopping.


     

    Or you order from a n on-line grocery firm that delivers to your entire neighborhood and reduces the number of cars on the road

     



    1. Drive itself to a charging station to charge itself.


     

    Or charge at home so there are less cars on the road.

     



    1. Drive you to the theatre and return home* by itself. When the play is finished, it could wait for you right in front of the building. (*) This implies that the same car could be shared by different family members for different purposes on the same evening. Potentially ending family quarrels.


     

    Or have the car wait outside so we don't double the number of cars on the road.

     



    1. Pick up your teenage daughter at 3:00 am after a night out.

     


     

    VERY GOOD!

     


     The takeaway is that a Self Driving car will be much more in use than a Driver Operated car.


     

    Which is actually the problem to begin with.

  • Reply 150 of 166
    I assume the entry level car will be 16-32 mile range, mid range 64 miles, and top range of 126 range with a limited edition gold car.

    I mean once the iCar comes out Apple will need to look at other areas to innovate in. Maybe we could see these possibilities:
    (I'm using the letter (i) because Apple _____ doesn't sound right or is to long of a product name.
    -iFuel's
    -iPlane's
    -iHome's
    -iBank (Apple Bank already exists)
    -iClothes
    -iShoes
    -iMart or AppleMart (Higherend WalMart)

    Just need something new to speculate about now that the car is a go.
  • Reply 151 of 166
    mr o wrote: »

    + most of the time your car is idle, waiting for its driver.


    Instead, a self driving car could ...

     
    1. Pick up your children from school and bring them home.
    2. Collect your grocery shopping.
    3. Drive itself to a charging station to charge itself.
    4. Drive you to the theatre and return home* by itself. When the play is finished, it could wait for you right in front of the building. (*) This implies that the same car could be shared by different family members for different purposes on the same evening. Potentially ending family quarrels.
    5. Pick up your teenage daughter at 3:00 am after a night out.

    It'd be like having a personal chauffeur/butler for the whole family. Parenting is never going to be the same again :)  The takeaway is that a Self Driving car will be much more in use than a Driver Operated car.

    You're conflating an a self-driving vehicle with one that has no human pilot behind the wheel. That's like saying if you put on Cruise Control you can take a nap or because a plane has autopilot no pilots need to be in the cockpit. Baby steps. Realistic baby steps.
  • Reply 152 of 166
    mr o wrote: »
    sflagel wrote: »
     
    What exactly is it about cars today that sucks?

    They are incredibly safe, having many passive (seat belts, airbags, crumple zones), as well as active (ABS, ASS, emergency breaking) safety features. They also consume less and less petrol (and EV will become de- facto standard by 2025); have a very smooth ride, quick acceleration, stable cornering, and are easy to drive. What exactly sucks about them?


    The main issue is that you still have to drive/operate them.

    It seems trivial, but just ask those mothers that have to leave work early to pick up their kids from school.

    So now we're too lazy to even drive? WTF?
  • Reply 153 of 166
    jungmarkjungmark Posts: 6,922member
    dasanman69 wrote: »
    So now we're too lazy to even drive? WTF?

    Did Siri type that in? :)

    It would be cool to have our own KITT.
  • Reply 154 of 166
    jungmark wrote: »
    dasanman69 wrote: »
    So now we're too lazy to even drive? WTF?

    Did Siri type that in? :)

    It would be cool to have our own KITT.

    Forget KITT. I want the tractor trailer you can drive into for service. :lol:
  • Reply 155 of 166
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,712member
    I don't come to this site for its humor. Do you?

    Hehe - so many replies, most of which would probably get me banned :smokey:

    So I'll just leave it if you can't laugh at least a little then what a miserable existence you must lead.
  • Reply 156 of 166
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,712member
    dtrace wrote: »
    so why rush out and buy a rev 1 car?

    I generally don't buy rev1 things from any vendor for the reasons you cited. As for the Apple watch on my wrist, it isn't really a rev1 product - it's an evolution of the iOS ecosystem. Even so I stuck with the basic sport model. So far I have been more than vindicated.

    But yes, for me I will pass on the first model year of the iCar. Maybe successive years unless it's got compelling reasons over what I currently have whenever they do get around to releasing it. I've owned 7 cars and only one has been new - and I only bought it new because it was a hot, popular model and used ones were going within a few thousand of new ones. A car will have to be really compelling for me to waste money on a new one (depreciation alone!) so I will be interested in what Apple brings but not too hyped to spring for one. Unless they really knock my socks off.
  • Reply 157 of 166
    docno42 wrote: »
    I don't come to this site for its humor. Do you?

    Hehe - so many replies, most of which would probably get me banned :smokey:

    So I'll just leave it if you can't laugh at least a little then what a miserable existence you must lead.

    Huh? Who said said I don't laugh?! I do, indeed, heartily and often.

    Seriously, thanks for the concern, though. :)
  • Reply 158 of 166

    Tesla is a ponzi scheme like most companies were before them, promises of profits in the future  , just make sure to sell to the next sucker before the share price drops to zero

  • Reply 159 of 166
    pistis wrote: »
    Tesla is a ponzi scheme like most companies were before them, promises of profits in the future  , just make sure to sell to the next sucker before the share price drops to zero

    I guess I don't quite understand what a Ponzi scheme is as I can't recall any such scheme that produced brilliant, industry leading products that are loved by their customers, helped create infrastructure, and a crapload of patents that they then offered to the world for free. Someone should tell Musk he's doing it wrong so and you should report him to the SEC so he can rot in jail next to Bernie Madoff¡
  • Reply 160 of 166
    The art director/designer must've been ready to go home when the boss told them to make an Apple garage in Photoshop...
Sign In or Register to comment.