You think Swift is about ease of development and not performance and efficiency? Did you read that somewhere and just repeating it without knowing how Swift works?
1. If you only care about performance and efficiency - you already have a language pair in which all modern OSs were written - C/C++.
Apple brought Swift to ease the development and make iOS development available to more people. Notice that making it available to more people logically doesn't include a solution for speed and performance, because it was never a problem in C. However, if the language is easier, then more people tend to use it. One example would be Java vs C use. Much more people use Java.
2. Here is one piece of data, albeit it is for older Swift -
Anyone who needs to write mathematical documents ( so most hard sciences) has a choice of pen and paper or something like a Surface. People have become so blinded by the typewriter that they fail to see that future note taking, not rooted in the Middle Ages, will require a lot of science and hence a lot of mathematics and hence handwriting.
The Surface is a very nice device. Don't care for the pen and the lag but it is more useful to many than a MacBook ( which is also very nice and has very important roles). The stylus input is not just for drawing. Unfortunately business is still largely non-scientific but that will eventually change. The typewriter is not going to be able to dominate forever.
That being said, I agree with much of the analysis presented in this article, but have an uneasy feeling about a 13" iPad. Very unwieldy. Hope it succeeds and they bring Pencil to the normal iPad. I also hope the Surface (Pro) does well. It's an interesting take on the Tablet PC and deserves a place in people's options.
My GF would assume that differential calculus was using more than one type of calculator to work something out...
Valid point about the limitations of keyboards though.
Basically, this simply follows that way computers have developed over the years. No computer OS could work on a computer from over 10 years ago, nor should it be expected to. ARM development, and that of the associated GPU, has developed faster than x86 in the past few years, mostly thanks to Apple, as the rest race to catch up. The A9, and particularly the A9x are now in x86 territory, and means a lot. It was not expected that this could happen just a few years ago.
My guestimate on the performance of the quadcore A9X is around 8,000 on geekbench 3.... still waiting for someone to run them on one though. (based on announced gains and on A9 performance)..... that would bring it up to the lowest end for the Macbook pro line when it comes to CPU performance benchmarks.
Apple did? I thought they discouraged physical keyboards until recently. I guess I only knew of some 3rd party ones, not realizing Apple sold them too. Thanks.
Ha - the first iPad had a keyboard dock! As in a use on a desktop dock.
However, my point is that you are better off with a 99$ magic keyboard than a 169$ smart keyboard because its use is limited to the iPad pro only while the magic keyboard is compatible with all Apple devices (including the iPad Pro).
So the compact size and integrated cover aspect have zero value to you?
I suspect you are in the minority with that opinion.
My guestimate on the performance of the quadcore A9X is around 8,000 on geekbench 3.... still waiting for someone to run them on one though. (based on announced gains and on A9 performance)..... that would bring it up to the lowest end for the Macbook pro line when it comes to CPU performance benchmarks.
Better than that, actually. But the point remains that we're getting between 5-15% improvement in x86 each generation, which now comes in at over a year. But ARM is improving at an average of over 50% a year. That's a great discrepancy. The A9 is, according to Apple, up to 70% faster in CPU, and 90% faster in GPU from last year. The A9x is up to 90% faster in CPU and I think they said, about 100% faster in GPU from last year.
If it's just about 50% better next year, then that leaps a number of x86 versions.
Ah, how you love to twist things my boy. I buy a lot of things because I like to try them out, and play around with them. I can afford whatever I want, and so, why not?
The difference is that you really do need a stylus with Windows tablets, and the keyboard as well. You also need a mouse or trackpad. Despite one guy here claiming his girlfriend does work with her Surface without those, it's very difficult indeed. You don't need them with an iPad, but at times, they are useful.
If you're only using "touch-first" apps on the Surface, then you really don't need the keyboard / stylus / mouse. But as you mentioned earlier, and also from my own observation, a lot, if not most, of the people who have the SP are using it as a laptop to run desktop apps
But touch screen notebooks have not sold well. For the windows user, they're simply too expensive. Another problem that Surface cheerleaders fail to recognize, is that there is virtually no software for Windows that is made for touch. Or for a stylus. Yes, of course, much of it will work with touch or a stylus, but not well. It's not like android or iOS where apps are specifically written for touch.
Actually if you go on the MS App store, there is software that is made for touch. It just isn't anywhere near the quality of touch-apps that are made for iPad.
Better than that, actually. But the point remains that we're getting between 5-15% improvement in x86 each generation, which now comes in at over a year. But ARM is improving at an average of over 50% a year. That's a great discrepancy. The A9 is, according to Apple, up to 70% faster in CPU, and 90% faster in GPU from last year. The A9x is up to 90% faster in CPU and I think they said, about 100% faster in GPU from last year.
If it's just about 50% better next year, then that leaps a number of x86 versions.
Didn't Tim Cook say that the A9X in the iPad Pro is more powerful than 80% of the PC's sold in the last 12 months?
Actually if you go on the MS App store, there is software that is made for touch. It just isn't anywhere near the quality of touch-apps that are made for iPad.
There are very few apps for touch on Windows, which was my point. Then, you're either forced to use apps, which for the most part, aren't all that good, but for the virtue of touch, or some of the vast majority that have no touch, but force you to use the device with a stylus, a keyboard, or both.
Didn't Tim Cook say that the A9X in the iPad Pro is more powerful than 80% of the PC's sold in the last 12 months?
I think he said notebooks. And he's likely right, as most Windows notebooks are sold for low price and not performance. Most also are a generation or two behind intel, again, because of price.
Imagine Apple Insider saying something negative about Microsoft products. Really at the end of the day this is an Apple fan boy site so one would expect anything written about Microsoft to be negative, even if it isn't true. Keep it up Apple fans love this kind of reporting.
1. If you only care about performance and efficiency - you already have a language pair in which all modern OSs were written - C/C++.
Apple brought Swift to ease the development and make iOS development available to more people. Notice that making it available to more people logically doesn't include a solution for speed and performance, because it was never a problem in C. However, if the language is easier, then more people tend to use it. One example would be Java vs C use. Much more people use Java.
Yes.. Because clearly Apple is having trouble finding developers who are welling to write apps for iOS. /s
Quote:
2. Here is one piece of data, albeit it is for older Swift -
That was with unoptimized Swift using beta version of Xcode. We are already at Swift v2. They updated the results to include optimized code. Look it up.
Quote:
Swift shows really good performance in certain cases (comparable to C++) but in other cases it is very slow (again, when compared to C++).
Well duh! The language was just released to the public last year. You can't expect it to hit all the performance marks compared to a languages that's been around for long time.
Ah, how you love to twist things my boy. I buy a lot of things because I like to try them out, and play around with them. I can afford whatever I want, and so, why not?
The difference is that you really do need a stylus with Windows tablets, and the keyboard as well. You also need a mouse or trackpad. Despite one guy here claiming his girlfriend does work with her Surface without those, it's very difficult indeed. You don't need them with an iPad, but at times, they are useful.
I didn't say that she doesn't use a keyboard or the trackpad. I was pooh-poohing the suggestion that you can't use the Surface Pro without the stylus.
Personally I don't own either a Surface or an iPad. That said, I would always rather use a physical QWERTY keyboard whenever possible AND one that supports keyboard shortcuts. Once one is using a keyboard- having to reach out to the screen to use your finger is an ergonomic nightmare, and thus (if using a keyboard) I would rather have a mouse as well (personally I prefer them to trackpads, as an aside the trackpad on my GF's SP2 is horrible).
My GF's use of her SP2 is very narrow. Email/word/excel/browsing, and printing to her dymo label printer. At the time of purchase neither word, excel or dymo were options on an ipad (the USB dymo printer still isn't available on the ipad).
Comments
You think Swift is about ease of development and not performance and efficiency? Did you read that somewhere and just repeating it without knowing how Swift works?
1. If you only care about performance and efficiency - you already have a language pair in which all modern OSs were written - C/C++.
Apple brought Swift to ease the development and make iOS development available to more people. Notice that making it available to more people logically doesn't include a solution for speed and performance, because it was never a problem in C. However, if the language is easier, then more people tend to use it. One example would be Java vs C use. Much more people use Java.
2. Here is one piece of data, albeit it is for older Swift -
http://www.primatelabs.com/blog/2015/02/swift-performance-updated/
Swift shows really good performance in certain cases (comparable to C++) but in other cases it is very slow (again, when compared to C++).
Anyone who needs to write mathematical documents ( so most hard sciences) has a choice of pen and paper or something like a Surface. People have become so blinded by the typewriter that they fail to see that future note taking, not rooted in the Middle Ages, will require a lot of science and hence a lot of mathematics and hence handwriting.
The Surface is a very nice device. Don't care for the pen and the lag but it is more useful to many than a MacBook ( which is also very nice and has very important roles). The stylus input is not just for drawing. Unfortunately business is still largely non-scientific but that will eventually change. The typewriter is not going to be able to dominate forever.
That being said, I agree with much of the analysis presented in this article, but have an uneasy feeling about a 13" iPad. Very unwieldy. Hope it succeeds and they bring Pencil to the normal iPad. I also hope the Surface (Pro) does well. It's an interesting take on the Tablet PC and deserves a place in people's options.
My GF would assume that differential calculus was using more than one type of calculator to work something out...
Valid point about the limitations of keyboards though.
Basically, this simply follows that way computers have developed over the years. No computer OS could work on a computer from over 10 years ago, nor should it be expected to. ARM development, and that of the associated GPU, has developed faster than x86 in the past few years, mostly thanks to Apple, as the rest race to catch up. The A9, and particularly the A9x are now in x86 territory, and means a lot. It was not expected that this could happen just a few years ago.
My guestimate on the performance of the quadcore A9X is around 8,000 on geekbench 3.... still waiting for someone to run them on one though. (based on announced gains and on A9 performance)..... that would bring it up to the lowest end for the Macbook pro line when it comes to CPU performance benchmarks.
You meant to say "a freshman boy" of course.
No, buys would be using Java and Android, most likely
Ha - the first iPad had a keyboard dock! As in a use on a desktop dock.
So the compact size and integrated cover aspect have zero value to you?
I suspect you are in the minority with that opinion.
Better than that, actually. But the point remains that we're getting between 5-15% improvement in x86 each generation, which now comes in at over a year. But ARM is improving at an average of over 50% a year. That's a great discrepancy. The A9 is, according to Apple, up to 70% faster in CPU, and 90% faster in GPU from last year. The A9x is up to 90% faster in CPU and I think they said, about 100% faster in GPU from last year.
If it's just about 50% better next year, then that leaps a number of x86 versions.
Ah, how you love to twist things my boy. I buy a lot of things because I like to try them out, and play around with them. I can afford whatever I want, and so, why not?
The difference is that you really do need a stylus with Windows tablets, and the keyboard as well. You also need a mouse or trackpad. Despite one guy here claiming his girlfriend does work with her Surface without those, it's very difficult indeed. You don't need them with an iPad, but at times, they are useful.
If you're only using "touch-first" apps on the Surface, then you really don't need the keyboard / stylus / mouse. But as you mentioned earlier, and also from my own observation, a lot, if not most, of the people who have the SP are using it as a laptop to run desktop apps
But touch screen notebooks have not sold well. For the windows user, they're simply too expensive. Another problem that Surface cheerleaders fail to recognize, is that there is virtually no software for Windows that is made for touch. Or for a stylus. Yes, of course, much of it will work with touch or a stylus, but not well. It's not like android or iOS where apps are specifically written for touch.
Actually if you go on the MS App store, there is software that is made for touch. It just isn't anywhere near the quality of touch-apps that are made for iPad.
Really, how misogynic of you.
Better than that, actually. But the point remains that we're getting between 5-15% improvement in x86 each generation, which now comes in at over a year. But ARM is improving at an average of over 50% a year. That's a great discrepancy. The A9 is, according to Apple, up to 70% faster in CPU, and 90% faster in GPU from last year. The A9x is up to 90% faster in CPU and I think they said, about 100% faster in GPU from last year.
If it's just about 50% better next year, then that leaps a number of x86 versions.
Didn't Tim Cook say that the A9X in the iPad Pro is more powerful than 80% of the PC's sold in the last 12 months?
There are very few apps for touch on Windows, which was my point. Then, you're either forced to use apps, which for the most part, aren't all that good, but for the virtue of touch, or some of the vast majority that have no touch, but force you to use the device with a stylus, a keyboard, or both.
Ha - the first iPad had a keyboard dock! As in a use on a desktop dock.
Given how much @Gatorguy posts here, you'd think he remembers the bit about the iPad Keyboard......
I think he said notebooks. And he's likely right, as most Windows notebooks are sold for low price and not performance. Most also are a generation or two behind intel, again, because of price.
1. If you only care about performance and efficiency - you already have a language pair in which all modern OSs were written - C/C++.
Apple brought Swift to ease the development and make iOS development available to more people. Notice that making it available to more people logically doesn't include a solution for speed and performance, because it was never a problem in C. However, if the language is easier, then more people tend to use it. One example would be Java vs C use. Much more people use Java.
Yes.. Because clearly Apple is having trouble finding developers who are welling to write apps for iOS. /s
http://www.primatelabs.com/blog/2015/02/swift-performance-updated/
That was with unoptimized Swift using beta version of Xcode. We are already at Swift v2. They updated the results to include optimized code. Look it up.
Well duh! The language was just released to the public last year. You can't expect it to hit all the performance marks compared to a languages that's been around for long time.
Really, how misogynic of you.
Oh yes, I am really oppressive and misogynistic.
I also torture and eat alive small children...
LOL
Ah, how you love to twist things my boy. I buy a lot of things because I like to try them out, and play around with them. I can afford whatever I want, and so, why not?
The difference is that you really do need a stylus with Windows tablets, and the keyboard as well. You also need a mouse or trackpad. Despite one guy here claiming his girlfriend does work with her Surface without those, it's very difficult indeed. You don't need them with an iPad, but at times, they are useful.
I didn't say that she doesn't use a keyboard or the trackpad. I was pooh-poohing the suggestion that you can't use the Surface Pro without the stylus.
Personally I don't own either a Surface or an iPad. That said, I would always rather use a physical QWERTY keyboard whenever possible AND one that supports keyboard shortcuts. Once one is using a keyboard- having to reach out to the screen to use your finger is an ergonomic nightmare, and thus (if using a keyboard) I would rather have a mouse as well (personally I prefer them to trackpads, as an aside the trackpad on my GF's SP2 is horrible).
My GF's use of her SP2 is very narrow. Email/word/excel/browsing, and printing to her dymo label printer. At the time of purchase neither word, excel or dymo were options on an ipad (the USB dymo printer still isn't available on the ipad).
I also torture and eat alive small children...
Tastes like chicken....