Apple resists MacBook, iPad Pro convergence as Microsoft struggles with Surface Windows 10 hybrids

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  • Reply 381 of 399
    sphericspheric Posts: 2,572member

     



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by airesponder View Post

     

     

    Of course, whenever I tend to talk to macbookers, they usually claim that touch is not needed there, nor will it ever be. They love their gesture navigation or something. 






     

    Well, you've finally clarified that you have absolutely no idea what they're talking about, and thus have no concept at all of what Apple is doing, or why people might even argue that different approaches work better for different platforms. If you don't understand or care how trackpad gestures work, and how they differ from direct manipulation on the screen, then there simply is zero reason to bother arguing with you. 

     

    It's like trying to argue music theory with someone who figures that "whenever I tend to talk to composers, they usually claim that voice leading is pretty important. They love their chords or something."

     

    If you haven't a clue, please don't pester the world with your unfounded "opinions". 

     

    Thank you.

     

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by airesponder View Post

     

    The Surface does things that no Apple product can. If it didn't, it would not sell.


     

    It doesn't appear to be selling.

  • Reply 382 of 399
    canukstormcanukstorm Posts: 2,717member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by airesponder View Post

     

     

    In this decade, or the next? Shoulda, woulda, coulda. The capability has beein in Windows for 6 years and in devices for 3. Nice to know that Apple is going to eventually catch up here. Of course, whenever I tend to talk to macbookers, they usually claim that touch is not needed there, nor will it ever be. They love their gesture navigation or something. Actual touch inside of programs. Not needed they all claim.

     

     

    Its good for what it does. But people act like it can do everything, and integrating itself properly into a business workflow is not one of those things. Its simply not built for it, any more than a mini-cooper is built to go offroading. The Surface does things that no Apple product can. If it didn't, it would not sell.

     

     

    $3 billion business and growing. Now if we want to try to compare volumes between it and any particular relatively cheap Apple product, I agree.. there is no comparison. I saw someone above give a claim of 3 million units sold and laugh at that. When the products cost between $899-$1499 and have a high profit margin, 3 million units is good, particularly if you're growing. People tend to take notice, like Tim Cook. The moment he hastily slapped a keyboard and pen on the IPAD, he fooled nobody as to why he did it.

     

     

    Oh.. so now you're dragging a second display into the conference room? As opposed to just handing the display which is a tablet to the customer? Really? Such dark ages stuff.. second display indeed lololol.

     

    Quote:

     

    No really. Surface RT was an IPAD like tablet that could run apps, and they put a keyboard and stylus onto it. Beat for beat its the exact same as an IPAD Pro without the app ecosystem, the better UI, and the brand name. Maybe that'll be enough to finally sell Surface RT as a product? I don't know. All I do know is the market destroyed it, while simultaneously buying into Surface Pro(which provided the capability of a full Windows PC) to the point that Microsoft in 3 years has built it into a $3 billion dollar growing business that even Tim Cook is reacting to. But good luck on the IPAD RT. It still doesn't get it into the 2-in-1 market by simply slapping a keyboard and pen on it.

     

    Quote:

     

    Apple hadn't been using those patents. First, the keyboard dock pictures on the original IPAD I nearly died laughing at. Connecting a traditional actual physical keyboard to a tablet? Those were the days lol. Either way, Apple was about as interested in making a true semi-permanent keyboard cover for the IPAD as they would be in becoming an OEM for Windows PC's. The Surface was even ridiculed for having done so, when it came up with its variation on the idea. Well.... at least until the Surface Pro started to sell and Apple started to realize that Microsoft was hitting a segment of the market that they either didn't have a device for, or had a device which is long in the tooth(MacBook) and ill-equipped(no touch) to compete in.

     

    When I heard they went the Surface RT route to try to bridge the gap, I couldn't have been happier. I'm sure there are Apple faithful that will buy it, but it will not make inroads into the true Surface market, which is the business workflow combined with light Windows users fed up with OEM trash and willing to pay a premium for a solid computer that they can go mobile with. Right now that's a $3 billion a year business and growing. And I know that seems like sock change to a high-volume, lower price point seller like Apple, but money is money, and Apple IS taking notice and responding.


    "$3 billion business and growing."

     

    Not entirely true.  Per MS' most recent quarterly results, Surface device business fell 26% YoY

     

     

    "It still doesn't get it into the 2-in-1 market by simply slapping a keyboard and pen on it"

     

    It isn't trying to.  If it was, it'd be running OSX.  The iPad Pro is tablet first. Full Stop.  The keyboard and pencil are there if you need to fulfill specific tasks but they're just as a supporting role.  Multi-touch is the central UI paradigm.

     

    "But people act like it can do everything, and integrating itself properly into a business workflow is not one of those things."

     

    You're right, it can't do everything, nor is it designed to but to say that it can't fit into a business workflow because it can't do everything is disingenuous.  Tell that to IBM, whose deploying iOS & Mac devices by the thousands on a regular basis and saving money doing so. Or the fact that Apple's sales, specifically to enterprise users, as a result of its partnerships with IBM, Cisco, etc. has grown to $25 billion, which is a 40% increase from the same quarter last year.  If Apple's devices couldn't fit into a business' workflow, they would not see those numbers.

     

    That's not take away from the SB. I'm sure it's a great device and works for many. But it's not the cat's ass either.

  • Reply 383 of 399
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by spheric View Post

     

     

    Well, you've finally clarified that you have absolutely no idea what they're talking about, and thus have no concept at all of what Apple is doing, or why people might even argue that different approaches work better for different platforms. If you don't understand or care how trackpad gestures work, and how they differ from direct manipulation on the screen, then there simply is zero reason to bother arguing with you. 


     

    You are correct in that I have a fairly shallow view of Apple's pond. Just like 99% of the commenters seem to have only a Surface-level(lolpunslol) view of Microsoft's pond. As I said from the jump, i'm simply giving you the view from the other side. I'm not pretending to be an Apple guy or know the ins and outs of their tech. But as you went on to elaborate, I did use the words correctly and had my information correct. Whenever I've brought up touch with Macbooker friends, its been said its not needed and the gestures are enough. That deep integration with touch and pen for use in specific desktop applications is irrelevant(usually with a snarky joke involving gorillas and their arms). That has been the party line for years.

     

    And no, I don't care to understand or know how trackpad gestures work, any more than you want to understand or know about how some specific aspect of Windows works. Unless of course you're using Windows...

     

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by spheric View Post

     

     

    It doesn't appear to be selling.


     

    $3 billion dollars a year and growing. Microsoft can't miracle up fake revenue(well, not serious legal trouble involving execs and prison). It may not move in high-volume, but it has a premium price point ($899-$1799, actuals.. pulled from the Microsoft store this time) instead. Furthermore, due to the lower-volume, it isn't over-saturating the market and has plenty of room to grow. Either way, higher priced stuff always takes longer to build traction then say putting out a $299 iPad Mini.

     

    As per the Surface Book, all segments are selling faster then they can build them. If you want one today, you'll get it sometime in December. Apparently they are buggy and has something to do with the dock, hopefully they get those things handled quickly.

     

    As per phones, they are still not quite there yet, but lord help you if the tech gets to the point where they can dock and refactor it to a flatscreen monitor and use one as a true Windows 10 PC(full desktop applications and what not) with no compromises. They're still screwing around with Universal Apps as it is to try to bridge the gap, but that aint the endgame. The endgame is providing the ability to pure phone users to use your phone as a full PC (which is going to be just all sorts in markets for developing countries. Buy a new phone, get a PC for free!).

     

    And they'll probably hold that until a Surface Phone is ready(which as I said, will be dependent on the tech getting powerful enough). It flows with the motif of Surface Hardware expanding the tech. They're trying, trying really hard to sell those two new Lumias under that banner, but its way too compromised to work. When the tech catches up.. watch out.

     

    Or lets put it this way, imagine for a moment you could take your iPhone and dock it to a device on your desk. When you do so, OS X pops up on an attached 24" monitor and you have keyboard and trackpad access, and you can interface to it exactly like a Mac. When you're done, simply detach the phone. An iphone and Mac, for the same price as an iPhone. Would you buy it? This is where we're headed, and nobody truly knows the answer.

     

    Microsoft is getting there on its side of the coin as fast as it bloody well can. Apple is simply scared they might lose Mac sales making such dual devices that 'don't do either thing well', which is really translated as 'we can no longer sell both things'.

  • Reply 384 of 399
    Originally Posted by airesponder View Post

    In this decade, or the next?

     

    I imagine before 2020.

     

    Shoulda, woulda, coulda.


     

    Yes, shoulda woulda coulda something that HAS NEVER BEEN DONE BEFORE IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND OH BOY THEY SHOULD HAVE DONE THAT EARLIER THAN THEY HAVEN’T DONE YET I’LL TELL YOU WHAT.

     

    Get out.

     

    The capability has beein in Windows for 6 years and in devices for 3.


     

    Almost as though you have no comprehension of what we’re discussing.

     

    ...Apple is going to eventually catch up...


     

    Reported.

     

    ...they usually claim that touch is not needed there, nor will it ever be.


     

    Almost as though only idiots want to touch a vertical touchscreen in their LAP...

     
    Its simply not built for it

     

    Because you say so. Despite the entirety of the Fortune 500 using iPads for business.

     

    The Surface does things that no Apple product can.


     

    Yeah, blue screen, get viruses, and spy on you for the NSA through Microsoft’s anus back door.

     

    If it didn't, it would not sell.


     

    People ARE generally idiots, aren’t they? Ell oh ell!

     
    ...relatively cheap Apple product...
     


     

    THIS IS HOW LOW PAID MICROSOFT SHILLS HAVE HAD TO STOOP. THEY HAVE TO CALL APPLE PRODUCTS CHEAP.

     

    The moment he hastily slapped a keyboard and pen on the IPAD, he fooled nobody as to why he did it.


     

    Because Apple had successfully tested their patent for years in Microsoft’s products, getting paid to do so all the while.

     
    Oh.. so now you're dragging a second display into the conference room?

     

    Yes, because we’re sitting comfortably at LEO and we all know the bottom of the ocean is the best place for skydiving.

     

    Oh, wait.

     

    As opposed to just handing the display which is a tablet to the customer? Really?


     

    Or, you know, stick to the topic at hand instead of being so blatantly and disgustingly illiterate.

     
    ...that even Tim Cook is reacting to.

     

    Pro tip: My Rules of the Troll list isn’t a list of what TO do.

     
    Apple hadn't been using those patents.

     

    It’s almost as though you have absolutely no comprehension of what we’re discussing.

     

    First, the keyboard dock pictures on the original IPAD I nearly died laughing at.


     

    Funny, it works great for me. Oh, and never mind the docks for the “original” Microsoft “tablets” you like to yell about.

     

    Connecting a traditional actual physical keyboard to a tablet? Those were the days lol.


     

    YEAH THE SURFACE SURE DOESN’T HAVE A TRADITIONAL ACTUAL PHYSICAL KEYBOARD LOL THAT SURE ISN’T THE CASE LOL IT’S NOT PHYSICAL AT ALL; THERE’S A PSYCHOSOMATIC FIELD PUT OUT BY THE SURFACE WHICH TRICKS PEOPLE INTO THINKING THEY’RE ACTUALLY TOUCHING A REAL KEYBOARD LOL.

     

    You’re creative, at least, and that’s funny. But again, reported. Get out.

     

    Either way, Apple was about as interested in making a true semi-permanent keyboard cover for the IPAD as they would be in becoming an OEM for Windows PC's.


     

    Which is why they came up with the patent for it and then licensed the patent to Microsoft. Oh, wait, no, that disproves your ridiculous malarkey.

     

    The Surface was even ridiculed for having done so, when it came up with its variation on the idea.


     

    Its own variation which it got by buying the patent from Apple and doing exactly what it said.

     
    Apple IS taking notice and responding. 

     

    Again, reported.

  • Reply 385 of 399
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

     

     

    I imagine before 2020.


     

    Noted.

     

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

     

     

    Because you say so. Despite the entirety of the Fortune 500 using iPads for business.


     

    LOL Right. Simply saying it doesn't make it so. About the only thing iPads are useful for in business is as point-of-sale or endpoint mobile terminals(like.. delivery drivers). Even then, the moment they're purchased they're pretty much considered obsolete.

     

    Even trying to integrate an IPAD into the actual workflow of the backend of a business would be fairly ridiculous to even suggest and probably get you fired just for bringing the stupid. In that arena, desktop computers are king(more and more interfacing to web-based software), particularly given businesses tend to have 20 years of professional grade desktop software of all types built around them. They aren't going to be replaced by computers that have to be completely reprogrammed for, take a dumper whenever the wifi goes down, and for which support becomes non-existant extremely quickly.

     

    As an example, I just got done with some outpatient surgery in a major hospital. Nearly all the computers were networked and all of their software was built around... Windows... utilizing Windows 7 off laptops and workstations. Everything was integrated into centralized medical records and they immediately had access to every last thing from my primary doctor, procedures that took place in other divisions, the whole smash. Complete with palmprint scanners. It was fairly impressive and they really had their stuff organized. Where does IPAD fit in with that workflow? It doesn't.

     

    Granted they weren't rolling with Surface either, but my guess is their last redevelopment predated the use. Either way, their setup in no way excluded the use of Surfaces or 2-in-1's like it would the use of IPAD's, if they wanted to upgrade in the future. Furthermore, if they went Windows 10, they could then progressively develop some of their software as 'touch-first' apps(which might reduce times in some use cases) without needing a complete redesign(and retraining) of the entire system. This is the world Microsoft and Windows tends to excel in.

     

    Macs or anything Apple don't tend to be used in this type of business arena as part of the system given Apple's tendency to obsolete hardware and software after 2-5 years, depending on the product. They simply are not a company that tolerates legacy products, and for businesses that develop planning for systems that are expected to last a decade or more, that is lethal.

  • Reply 386 of 399
    Originally Posted by airesponder View Post

    LOL Right. Simply saying it doesn't make it so.

     

    K.

     

    Whoops, only 94%. Guess I was wrong. Though that was three years ago now. How many use Surface?

     

    About the only thing iPads are useful for in business is as point-of-sale or endpoint mobile terminals(like.. delivery drivers). 


     

    Simply saying it doesn't make it so.

     

     Even then, the moment they're purchased they're pretty much considered obsolete.


     

    Simply saying it doesn't make it so.

     

    Even trying to integrate an IPAD into the actual workflow of the backend of a business would be fairly ridiculous to even suggest and probably get you fired just for bringing the stupid.


     

    Simply saying it doesn't make it so.

     



    businesses tend to have 20 years of professional grade desktop software of all types built around them. 


     

    Simply saying it doesn't make it so.

     
    for which support becomes non-existant extremely quickly.

     

    Simply saying it doesn't make it so.

     
    Where does IPAD fit in with that workflow? It doesn't.

     

    Simply saying it doesn't make it so.

     
    This is the world Microsoft and Windows tends to excel in.

     

    Yeah, halfway solutions that aren’t the best of any world. You’re right.

     

    Macs or anything Apple don't tend to be used in this type of business arena as part of the system


     

    Simply saying it doesn't make it so.

  • Reply 387 of 399
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

     

     

    K.

     

    Whoops, only 94%. Guess I was wrong. Though that was three years ago now. How many use Surface?


     

    Lol.. your claim is that 94% of Fortune 500 companies used IPAD 2 years after release? Really? Cause just LOL. And quite a few Fortune 500 companies are either using Surfaces, or a 2-in-1 OEM variant(large companies typically contract their support through OEM's when they buy their systems) based around the Surface hybrid technology.

     

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

     

     

    Simply saying it doesn't make it so.


     

    Nope.. the realities of the business world make it so. Since you clearly have no conception of the business world and its needs, constantly crying a phrase over and over won't make those facts go away.

     

    To throw you a bone... I did hear Macs and Apple products are popular in the first couple years of tech startups. But then, given by design they have no major internal systems to maintain(they are a startup after all), it makes sense. Its also why when they get bought, they get transitioned into a real enterprise and/or get gutted for parts and primarily their user base.

     

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

     

     

    Yeah, halfway solutions that aren’t the best of any world. You’re right.


     

    See.. you're getting it. Exactly the reason IPAD's aren't used in the business world. /bravo.

  • Reply 388 of 399
    Originally Posted by airesponder View Post

    your claim is that 94% of Fortune 500 companies used IPAD 2 years after release? Really? Cause just LOL.



    So... absolutely no refutation whatsoever.

     

    GET OUT, PAID SHILL.

     

    And quite a few Fortune 500 companies are either using Surfaces


     

    So... how many. Since that seems to be all you care about.

     
    Nope.. the realities of the business world make it so.

     

    And yet I proved you completely and utterly wrong in every single respect.

     

    Since you clearly have no conception of the business world and its needs


     

    NINTY-FOUR PERCENT OF THE FORTUNE 500 USES IPADS.

     

    constantly crying a phrase over and over won't make those facts go away.


     

    Aww, it’s cute that you don’t see the irony.

     
    Exactly the reason IPAD's aren't used in the business world.

     

    NINTY-FOUR PERCENT OF THE FORTUNE 500 USES IPADS.

     

    ?Reported again.

  • Reply 389 of 399
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

     

     

    NINTY-FOUR PERCENT OF THE FORTUNE 500 USES IPADS.

     


    Once you cut off at the top 500 companies - they are large enough that almost any supplier can boast the same numbers....  It has made more inroad than any other tablet though.

     

    As far as iPads and business - it was large enough that it was what first got IBM interested in offering services in large corporations for Apple, only later did they add in the Mac line.  There is a large chunk of business that iPads are suited for business purposes, but as someone pointed out - not in the back office.... but then the back offices of companies tend to be more limited in size.  There are of course the obvious uses like menus, order entry, then there is inventory, a lot of customer facing applications such as airports, pilots, demonstration of "customizations" for retail operations - even saw it in regards to tailors (where the tailor would sit down with you and piece together what you wanted in your custom suit).  

  • Reply 390 of 399
    From the jump, i'll state that i'm an MS guy. So allow me to give the other perspective.

    The first word i key on is 'touch-first' apps and how these seem to be somehow the holy grail of anything. To a Windows guy(or gal)... 'touch-first' apps mean just one thing. Cut-down versions of real software featuring a subset of commonly used functionality refactored to be controlled using your finger. You really want to know why you don't see true 'professional' versions of content creation software, even on this IPAD Pro? Because to handle that level of fidelity, it needs to be a desktop-centric program. Even Apps like Photoshop and Office are a shell of their desktop counterparts. Great if you want to filter an image or make a basic document, but piss poor if you're making production images out of multiple sources or doing any type of complex document/spreadsheet processing involving multiple sources of data. But those limitations are expected, as the 'touch centric' app is meant to be easy breezy 'greatest hits' functionality that caters to the drive-by user.

    Which brings me to the Surface. People are quite correct in that the Surface does not focus and feature touch-first apps. However, they also like to comment on how the touch is 'crappy'. Ya.. try no. The key to Microsoft's touch implementation is that both touch and pen support are integrated directly into and are usable as needed by desktop applications. This is the strength of the Surface, why the touch screen is important, and why the product is selling and gaining traction, particularly in its primary market, which is the business workflow.

    Someone builds say a 3D model in a desktop application, and then detaches the tablet from the keyboard and can HAND the tablet to a customer who can then use touch or pen controls to look and examine various aspects of that model to provide feedback. What do you do on a Mac Pro? Look over a shoulder, or a very unintuitive turning of the computer to the customer and having to show them how to use the controls. Have them download an app on their Phone? Lol... that'll go over well. Telling a customer to download something is a haha fail moment. The simple fact is that you can't just reach out and touch and manipulate the desktop application, as you can on the Surface.

    Now, i don't think that anyone would disagree that for casual consumption, the IPAD is king, but the Surface is <span style="line-height:1.4em;">an integration using computers in business that is very foreign to a native IPAD user, and something they've never come across because they spend all their day playing with their computer, rather than using it to create stuff. Its also why Tim suddenly came to Jesus on slapping a keyboard and stylus on the IPAD 'Pro'(really... in its current form its the exact same thing as the old Surface RT that Microsoft took a billion dollar write-down trying to sell), really quick with this fast-follow of a device in order to try to fool people into thinking this is a great content consumption device for businesses, um.. like the Surface! Because in that arena, outside of point-of-sale, and initial first buyers that have run headfirst into the severe limitations, the IPAD hasn't really made any sort of traction into the actual workflow of companies. Instead, Apple has inadvertently ceded that arena to Microsoft while depending on the Macbook to do those things and party like its 5 years ago, and are hastily trying to play catch-up while Microsoft fires another salvo with designing a laptop-first, tablet-second version of the Surface to compete directly with that Macbook.</span>


    <span style="line-height:1.4em;">Either way, long story short... the Surface is rapidly gaining traction because there are very concrete reasons you would need one to help a workflow, oh.. and you can replace a lot of your older workstations with it, saving money.</span>

    I am an Apple guy but I actually like the Surface line from Microsoft. That being said, I am purchasing an iPadPro to replace my Dell Latitude. There are far more software applications for iOS than Windows and the battery life on the iPad will be superior.

    Microsoft needs to get its act in gear and build the Android runtime environment into Windows 10 as soon as possible. Being able to run the breadth of Android applications on the machine would make the platform far more attractive. I don't run and don't need programs like AutoCAD, Photoshop or the like. The software available for iOS or Android is enough. Being able to run Office at the same time would be nice also.

    Windows 10 with an Android runtime environment on a Surface would be a very compelling machine and would steal marketshare like crazy from the Android tablet platform. If MS makes a phone that could do the same thing or a phablet, such a device would also take a lot of Android marketshare especially at the high end of the Android handset market that Samsung, LG and GOOGL itself is targeting.

    iOS would be difficult to emulate on x86, being native to ARM. But Android has been ported to x86 already and the majority of Android ARM apps will already run on Intel CPUs. Apple's hardware is unique so iOS apps might also behave bizarrely. Android runs on commodity hardware so running them on a surface should not be much of a problem.

    I know many people who own a Windows laptop and an Android phone. Give them the opportunity to ditch the items for a single phablet that can replace both, and they will jump at the chance.

    MSFT has plans to do this and they need to accelerate those plans. Apple's market is secure, but Google's android market is up for grabs. If MSFT plays their cards right, they can take away Google's Android marketshare. The Surface is a nice machine. It could easily become the platform of choice in running Android applications. There is nothing from the Android OEMs that can touch its performance with even the core i5. Once the developers see what is possible on the machine, even as an Android platform, they will become intoxicated by its performance and drawn back into the Windows sphere of influence.

    The way I see it, the machine poses a mortal threat to Google and won't make much of a dent in the iOS ecosystem.
  • Reply 391 of 399
    sphericspheric Posts: 2,572member

    I found this article extremely interesting: 




     


    He makes a point, using prop vs. jet planes as an example, that looks basically like this:


    — A platform tends reaches its absolute pinnacle *after* the introduction of the new platform that obsoletes the old. 


    — This happens by incorporating some of the things that the new platform does better. 


    — However, the new platform, while seemingly puny in comparison to the old and established, is only at the very beginning of its potential, and that will expand in manifold ways to completely eclipse the previous technology. 


     


    He then applies this thinking to the Surface being the implementation of a new platform's features onto the obsoleted old-and-established. It will be loved by some and may be eventually seen as the pinnacle of a computing age that will all but disappear.

     

    This rings true to my ears — the article mentions prop planes, which are still in use, but in specific niche markets, but it applies to analog audio, as well, which I happen to think about a lot. Analog audio sounds better today than it ever has in the past, but it has been reduced to a niche market, as digital has grown FAR beyond the capabilities tape machines ever had.

  • Reply 392 of 399
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by spheric View Post

     

     

    This rings true to my ears — the article mentions prop planes, which are still in use, but in specific niche markets, but it applies to analog audio, as well, which I happen to think about a lot. Analog audio sounds better today than it ever has in the past, but it has been reduced to a niche market, as digital has grown FAR beyond the capabilities tape machines ever had.


     

    I think many people are misreading the future of the market - I don't see it as a one of anything will do everything but more of the ikea desk or kitchen type of thing -- a bunch of components that work great together or work great by themselves -- depending on your use case.  We are moving towards an interconnected web of devices, each can focus on specific specialties yet can work together as a whole.  We are only beginning to see the very beginnings of making things work together seemlessly.  Eventually display technology and technology generally will be ubiquotous -- and the concept of having everything in one device will be laughed at in the future.  Why fiddle with plugging a keyboard into your phone and then plugging that into a monitor so you can have a phone that is your computer when everything has computing power which can work wirelessly together or apart.....  You may walk from your living room where your wall is now your TV - where you can teleconference with someone and walk to the kitchen and the conferencing seemlessly follows you from room to room without having to worry about what device is doing what.  Where you can put ingredients on your counter and it will pop up recipes and timers for you to cook and even make recommendations based on your tastes.    If you sit down at your desk your environment will interact with you differently than if you are wandering around.  All these people trying to spend 8 hours infront of a little tablet because the tablet could do everything - are only going to make better customers for our hospitals because our necks were not designed to be kinked looking down at a tablet for those 8 hours (we are already beginning to see medical problems).  

  • Reply 393 of 399
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,277member
    herbivore wrote: »
    I am an Apple guy but I actually like the Surface line from Microsoft. .
    Tim Cook yesterday described Microsoft and their Surface as "deluded", so he would disagree. Of course that would be expected. Somewhat unexpected at least to me was that he would insult a competitive product by name. It's not the first time Apple has done so but it is pretty rare and perhaps shows the Surface has Mr. Cooks attention/concern.
  • Reply 394 of 399
    sphericspheric Posts: 2,572member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by bkkcanuck View Post

     

     

    I think many people are misreading the future of the market - I don't see it as a one of anything will do everything but more of the ikea desk or kitchen type of thing -- a bunch of components that work great together or work great by themselves -- depending on your use case. 


     

    Well, yes — that's the current reality, and what Apple has been pushing toward, and rather the gist of the article I posted. 

     

    "Convergence" is a pipe dream and mostly an attempt to extend a legacy market into a different world where other platforms are far better suited to the tasks at hand.

  • Reply 395 of 399
    sphericspheric Posts: 2,572member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post





    Tim Cook yesterday described Microsoft and their Surface as "deluded", so he would disagree. Of course that would be expected. Somewhat unexpected at least to me was that he would insult a competitive product by name. It's not the first time Apple has done so but it is pretty rare and perhaps shows the Surface has Mr. Cooks attention/concern.



    Of course the Surface has Mr. Cook's attention. He'd be a ridiculously stupid CEO if he weren't aware exactly of what every other contender on the markets he's selling to is doing. 

     

    Also, while this isn't during his tenure at Apple, Steve Jobs was always pretty outspoken about Microsoft: 

     

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  • Reply 396 of 399
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,277member
    spheric wrote: »

    Of course the Surface has Mr. Cook's attention.
    Of course Apple is aware of other competitive products. Calling attention to that product in public statements may show how serious it is.
  • Reply 397 of 399
    sphericspheric Posts: 2,572member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post





    Of course Apple is aware of other competitive products. Calling attention to that product in public statements may show how serious it is.



    I'm going to guess that he was asked about the product — at an iPad Pro promotional event at Trinity College in Dublin. 

     

    IF that is so (and I am assuming), then it could hardly be seen as "calling attention to the product in public statements", as opposed to, responding in a completely expectable fashion to questions asked at a public forum. 

     

    Either way, it doesn't change the fact that he's right. ;)

  • Reply 398 of 399
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,277member
    spheric wrote: »
    Either way, it doesn't change the fact that he's right. ;)
    :D
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