This seems like a nice machine for some, but I don't get the 4 out of 5 rating when the OS isn't pro, there are few pro apps, and some of the hardware is already outdated (justifiable or not). The file system is a real issue for organizing projects that span multiple applications and for moving data to and from the tablet. The Surface Pro is a hot mess because of Windows, but file system and hardwired Ethernet (via a dock) make it more "pro" than this. And before you discount the dock, don't forget about the keyboard cover from Apple that concedes the desktop use case..
This seems like a nice machine for some, but I don't get the 4 out of 5 rating when the OS isn't pro, there are few pro apps, and some of the hardware is already outdated (justifiable or not). The file system is a real issue for organizing projects that span multiple applications and for moving data to and from the tablet. The Surface Pro is a hot mess because of Windows, but file system and hardwired Ethernet (via a dock) make it more "pro" than this. And before you discount the dock, don't forget about the keyboard cover from Apple that concedes the desktop use case..
I really despise the moniker "pro" as people often apply to hardware. "Pro" has more to do with use cases and much less to do with hardware. If something can be used for a specific purpose for a business use (i.e. solidly hitting the middle of that use case) then it is a "pro" use case. If it cannot it cannot. Can a pilot use the iPad (pro being larger and more detailed) for diagnostics? Solidly, yes. Can it be used for simulations with diagnostics - again yes. Can the iPad be used for patient record clipboards for patients in a hospital (i.e. where the clipboard on the bed use to serve) - yes - in fact it is always as up to date as the patient informations system hospital wide / and can access MRI images etc. (and less error prone since it is hard to just swap around on the wrong bed - it matches up to a wristband on the patient electronically). Can the iPad be used in Point-of-Sales? Yes. Those are professional use cases it fits very nicely. In the past they had computers hooked up on trolleys, rolling them around - not very great at solving business use cases. These are applications that are going to be on a consumer oriented app store but enterprise app stores.... so no - you would not see them.
Is that a lot? I don't think I know anyone who sends their kids to a government run school.
Depends on the age and what school they are attending. The vast majority of regular school aged kids in Canada go to public schools, and for the most case that is true in the United States too. Schools would be hesitant to buy them for kids since they don't have the budget, and they would be unlikely to assume the parents can buy them as well. If you are going to University I find it funny that people complain that it is too expensive since my books cost more than that..... Personally, I don't think it is general enough in use cases to be great as a general computing device for most university students - the Macbook would likely be better.
Depends on the age and what school they are attending. The vast majority of regular school aged kids in Canada go to public schools, and for the most case that is true in the United States too. Schools would be hesitant to buy them for kids since they don't have the budget, and they would be unlikely to assume the parents can buy them as well. If you are going to University I find it funny that people complain that it is too expensive since my books cost more than that..... Personally, I don't think it is general enough in use cases to be great as a general computing device for most university students - the Macbook would likely be better.
Well, even if schools can't afford them, I still they would be excellent for independent learning. I like to browse around Wikipedia, but some of the explanations on there are just awful, nothing beats a proper professionally made textbook. If you put professional textbooks on the iPad and then make it that if you get stuck on a section you can tap and get a real live teacher pop up in a Skype window and discuss it with you, that could be very powerful.
Yes, I agree that currently a laptop would still be better for a uni student. Uni students need to create new things, not just be taught like high school students. And creating new things often requires using a lot of apps together, something a laptop is better at.
I don't know where all this Surface Pro hate is coming from. I'm using a refurbished SP3 and it's fantastic. It completely replaces my laptop on every level and more. And Windows 10 runs very well and does exactly what I want it to. Don't knock it till you've tried it
There are no shortage of fantastic file management apps that allow you to both OPEN and SAVE TO from the Apps you use. And they are backed up to the cloud. This isn't 2010 anymore. iOS has full file management.
On my Mac, I don't save important files to my e'ffing downloads folder. I use Dropbox, iCloud, or OneDrive. Coincidentally the same Apps that arte ubiquitous and functional on iOS.
Sorry if I sound huffy, I just can't stand this "file management" bs anymore. Its all there.
I understand your huffiness, however I was referring to on-device file management, not external cloud storage.
Depends on the age and what school they are attending. The vast majority of regular school aged kids in Canada go to public schools, and for the most case that is true in the United States too. Schools would be hesitant to buy them for kids since they don't have the budget, and they would be unlikely to assume the parents can buy them as well. If you are going to University I find it funny that people complain that it is too expensive since my books cost more than that..... Personally, I don't think it is general enough in use cases to be great as a general computing device for most university students - the Macbook would likely be better.
In my current grad courses, yeah still taking taken to refresh myself at 48..., 100% of students which bring laptops to class have Apple ones, that tells you everything.
And yes, books are hellishly expensive even in pdf form.
For one class on entrepreneurship, were books are kind of cheap compared to engineering manuals, the 4 mandatory ones are $100 bucks.
I've had classes with $400-500 of books (if you bought them new). Not to mentioned all the rest of crap you may need to buy.
In the 1980s, when I started university, a desktop was $5K minimum in todays money (mine cost $10K in todays money!!), many people couldn't afford that (I could) and so schools typically had huge computer labs were students used what by today's standard is horrible to do work on the computer itself, or to connect to mainframes (where you could get computer time to do your compiles or whatever).
Many here, and especially on Macrumors are beyond whiny, it's at a level of whinyness that just hurts my ears.
Computers, even super duper top ones, are dirt cheap right now; yet they keep on bitching!
Is that a lot? I don't think I know anyone who sends their kids to a government run school.
You don't know anyone who sends their kids to a government run school? Really? You might consider asking someone who works for you (e.g., your cleaning person, cook, chauffeur, dry cleaner, pool cleaner, landscaper.....).
In any event, the facts are easy enough to look up. The US spends about $12,500 per pupil on K-12 public education. A little over half of it is the instruction and instruction support budget, ~$7000.
Do you think $1000 is lot for a device, in that context?
Why would an AI global moderator get to belittle someone for expressing an opinion like this? I'd expect this kinda thing from the usual trolls, but not from an AI representative.
I thought the review was informative, but my opinion is that the iPad Pro is not for me. I too prefer the MacBook Air for what I use it for. I don't see the iPad Pro as a replacement either, but I'm not a graphic artist or professional as described in the article. Does that make me full of myself?
That said, I guess I can demand a refund of my AI subscription.
I don't know where all this Surface Pro hate is coming from. I'm using a refurbished SP3 and it's fantastic. It completely replaces my laptop on every level and more. And Windows 10 runs very well and does exactly what I want it to. Don't knock it till you've tried it
I am glad you have tech that works for you, and you are welcome to it. I've tried MS products in the past, and I don't like them. I've never been disappointed by an Apple device, and I've never lost data to a mac or iDevice. I can't say that about MS. I am forced to use a windows machine at work, and I curse it daily. Your experience sounds different, so yay. But I'm never going back. (MS isn't the only company I say that about. Pontiac/GM, and Sears are on that list too. YMMV.)
I really would like to see my employer adopt a "maintain your own tech" policy. Give everyone a fixed amount to buy their own device(s). Then dump the entire IT department. Got a tech problem? You solve it, and "the tech (dog) ate my homework" excuse not tolerated. It's the 21st century, and I work in an information based office. Tech skills and ability to do basics are a type of literacy that is expected. And we've gotten to the point where the Mac/PC difference in "compatibility" is now irrelevant. Get what you need/like and accept the consequences.
In my current grad courses, yeah still taking taken to refresh myself at 48..., 100% of students which bring laptops to class have Apple ones, that tells you everything.
And yes, books are hellishly expensive even in pdf form.
For one class on entrepreneurship, were books are kind of cheap compared to engineering manuals, the 4 mandatory ones are $100 bucks.
I've had classes with $400-500 of books (if you bought them new). Not to mentioned all the rest of crap you may need to buy.
In the 1980s, when I started university, a desktop was $5K minimum in todays money (mine cost $10K in todays money!!), many people couldn't afford that (I could) and so schools typically had huge computer labs were students used what by today's standard is horrible to do work on the computer itself, or to connect to mainframes (where you could get computer time to do your compiles or whatever).
Many here, and especially on Macrumors are beyond whiny, it's at a level of whinyness that just hurts my ears.
Computers, even super duper top ones, are dirt cheap right now; yet they keep on bitching!
I have calculated that the first computer my father bought [primarily because of my interest in computers] - in today's dollars - cost around $16,000 (at a 20% discount for educational). The first computer was an IBM PC, 64KB RAM (short of the 96KB RAM needed for the IBM x86 Assembler to use text messages instead of numeric), 2 Floppy Drives, CGA Graphics Card, Electrohome Colour Monitor, and a simple dot matrix printer, IBM PC DOS 1.1 (which did not support hard drives or directories - just the root folder). I think I have probably spent well over $100K myself over the years on hardware from Dell, ALR, Sun [workstation] and many BYOD (not to mention 20 x 400GB Western Digital hard drives of which 50% failed in the first year).
I figured my 2008 Mac Pro (best most solid computer I have bought) was probably 10,000 times more powerful than that first computer.
This cheapening out on Apple's parts by using last gen Touch ID and cameras is a worrying trend for this company. Schiller should be ashamed of himself. You just know this was his doing to make the inevitable iPad Pro 2 seem like more of an upgrade than it should be. Corporate greed is one of the worst facets of the 21st century and Apple are becoming ever more greedy these days. Anyone who defends Apple for these moves deserves how Apple treats you. A 420p FaceTime camera is a 1.5K new MacBook? Disgusting lack of respect for your loyal customers.
I agree with you 100%. There is absolutely no reason they couldn't include the high end parts of the iPhone 6S+ into this tablet. All it does is give them upgrade improvements for version 2.0 which is absolutely lame. To charge this much for a top end tablet and not use the most top end technology is sickening. The parts are already invented...just incorporate them! I have a new Macbook, and if the front facing camera was important to me it would have clouded my decision to buy it, but I use my iPad and iPhone for FaceTime and never my macbook, so the crappy camera wasn't an issue, but it's still a lame decision on a $1500 laptop that is just about perfect in every other aspect. Apple needs to be cutting edge on every release and push the envelop. Profit margins and Wall St. pressure are clouding the vision of this company, but are we not surprised?
I agree with you 100%. There is absolutely no reason they couldn't include the high end parts of the iPhone 6S+ into this tablet. All it does is give them upgrade improvements for version 2.0 which is absolutely lame. To charge this much for a top end tablet and not use the most top end technology is sickening. The parts are already invented...just incorporate them! I have a new Macbook, and if the front facing camera was important to me it would have clouded my decision to buy it, but I use my iPad and iPhone for FaceTime and never my macbook, so the crappy camera wasn't an issue, but it's still a lame decision on a $1500 laptop that is just about perfect in every other aspect. Apple needs to be cutting edge on every release and push the envelop. Profit margins and Wall St. pressure are clouding the vision of this company, but are we not surprised?
So Apple knows they can only source x-many components which is enough for the iPhone series but not enough for the iPhone + iPod Touch + iPad lines, but you say that simply because the "parts are already invented" that they can purchase as many as they need like it's hitting copy paste in SW? That's what you're saying?
So Apple knows they can only source x-many components which is enough for the iPhone series but not enough for the iPhone + iPod Touch + iPad lines, but you say that simply because the "parts are already invented" that they can purchase as many as they need like it's hitting copy paste in SW? That's what you're saying?
So they are supposed to dumb down the worlds most premium expensive top of the line computer hardware because they can't keep up with production? Maybe they should lower their costs in that case.
So they are supposed to dumb down the worlds most premium expensive top of the line computer hardware because they can't keep up with production? Maybe they should lower their costs in that case.
Everything is a balance. If you don't like that then don't use anything ever made by anyone ever.
So they are supposed to dumb down the worlds most premium expensive top of the line computer hardware because they can't keep up with production? Maybe they should lower their costs in that case.
It is bad business to constrain sales artificially by increasing demand when supply cannot meet demand. The same reason why you would not introduce a high and low end Macbook when they introduced it earlier this year -- you introduce it on the higher end until you are no longer supply constrained and then introduce lower end models when you have supply. When you have two competing devices for components in short supply you decide what is the most important use cases and give preference to one or the other. These are all business decisions. Now step and think a little (I know it might be difficult). What is more important - the high end camera in the iPhone or in the IPad Pro? I have never used my iPad to take a picture, but it is important for many many people in their iPhones..... If you are always balancing compromises - where does that component make more sense? Now the touch id.... I find it funny that some people are finding ways to touch it in such a way that it does not activate touch id because touch id now is too fast.... What is the difference in speed? 5 ms? I am surprised to not hear you do the same complaining about the iPhone.... Screams of why oh why did they not put 4GB of memory and the A9X in the new iPhone..... oh right - it was a business decision on where it made more sense and where it was actually useful - and it was not worth it to increase cost (and price) of something that would rarely be used by most phone applications at this point.
Comments
Education? At $1000 a pop?
I think not.
This seems like a nice machine for some, but I don't get the 4 out of 5 rating when the OS isn't pro, there are few pro apps, and some of the hardware is already outdated (justifiable or not). The file system is a real issue for organizing projects that span multiple applications and for moving data to and from the tablet. The Surface Pro is a hot mess because of Windows, but file system and hardwired Ethernet (via a dock) make it more "pro" than this. And before you discount the dock, don't forget about the keyboard cover from Apple that concedes the desktop use case..
I really despise the moniker "pro" as people often apply to hardware. "Pro" has more to do with use cases and much less to do with hardware. If something can be used for a specific purpose for a business use (i.e. solidly hitting the middle of that use case) then it is a "pro" use case. If it cannot it cannot. Can a pilot use the iPad (pro being larger and more detailed) for diagnostics? Solidly, yes. Can it be used for simulations with diagnostics - again yes. Can the iPad be used for patient record clipboards for patients in a hospital (i.e. where the clipboard on the bed use to serve) - yes - in fact it is always as up to date as the patient informations system hospital wide / and can access MRI images etc. (and less error prone since it is hard to just swap around on the wrong bed - it matches up to a wristband on the patient electronically). Can the iPad be used in Point-of-Sales? Yes. Those are professional use cases it fits very nicely. In the past they had computers hooked up on trolleys, rolling them around - not very great at solving business use cases. These are applications that are going to be on a consumer oriented app store but enterprise app stores.... so no - you would not see them.
Education? At $1000 a pop?
I think not.
Is that a lot? I don't think I know anyone who sends their kids to a government run school.
Is that a lot? I don't think I know anyone who sends their kids to a government run school.
Depends on the age and what school they are attending. The vast majority of regular school aged kids in Canada go to public schools, and for the most case that is true in the United States too. Schools would be hesitant to buy them for kids since they don't have the budget, and they would be unlikely to assume the parents can buy them as well. If you are going to University I find it funny that people complain that it is too expensive since my books cost more than that..... Personally, I don't think it is general enough in use cases to be great as a general computing device for most university students - the Macbook would likely be better.
Depends on the age and what school they are attending. The vast majority of regular school aged kids in Canada go to public schools, and for the most case that is true in the United States too. Schools would be hesitant to buy them for kids since they don't have the budget, and they would be unlikely to assume the parents can buy them as well. If you are going to University I find it funny that people complain that it is too expensive since my books cost more than that..... Personally, I don't think it is general enough in use cases to be great as a general computing device for most university students - the Macbook would likely be better.
Well, even if schools can't afford them, I still they would be excellent for independent learning. I like to browse around Wikipedia, but some of the explanations on there are just awful, nothing beats a proper professionally made textbook. If you put professional textbooks on the iPad and then make it that if you get stuck on a section you can tap and get a real live teacher pop up in a Skype window and discuss it with you, that could be very powerful.
Yes, I agree that currently a laptop would still be better for a uni student. Uni students need to create new things, not just be taught like high school students. And creating new things often requires using a lot of apps together, something a laptop is better at.
I don't know where all this Surface Pro hate is coming from. I'm using a refurbished SP3 and it's fantastic. It completely replaces my laptop on every level and more. And Windows 10 runs very well and does exactly what I want it to. Don't knock it till you've tried it
I understand your huffiness, however I was referring to on-device file management, not external cloud storage.
Depends on the age and what school they are attending. The vast majority of regular school aged kids in Canada go to public schools, and for the most case that is true in the United States too. Schools would be hesitant to buy them for kids since they don't have the budget, and they would be unlikely to assume the parents can buy them as well. If you are going to University I find it funny that people complain that it is too expensive since my books cost more than that..... Personally, I don't think it is general enough in use cases to be great as a general computing device for most university students - the Macbook would likely be better.
In my current grad courses, yeah still taking taken to refresh myself at 48..., 100% of students which bring laptops to class have Apple ones, that tells you everything.
And yes, books are hellishly expensive even in pdf form.
For one class on entrepreneurship, were books are kind of cheap compared to engineering manuals, the 4 mandatory ones are $100 bucks.
I've had classes with $400-500 of books (if you bought them new). Not to mentioned all the rest of crap you may need to buy.
In the 1980s, when I started university, a desktop was $5K minimum in todays money (mine cost $10K in todays money!!), many people couldn't afford that (I could) and so schools typically had huge computer labs were students used what by today's standard is horrible to do work on the computer itself, or to connect to mainframes (where you could get computer time to do your compiles or whatever).
Many here, and especially on Macrumors are beyond whiny, it's at a level of whinyness that just hurts my ears.
Computers, even super duper top ones, are dirt cheap right now; yet they keep on bitching!
You don't know anyone who sends their kids to a government run school? Really? You might consider asking someone who works for you (e.g., your cleaning person, cook, chauffeur, dry cleaner, pool cleaner, landscaper.....).
In any event, the facts are easy enough to look up. The US spends about $12,500 per pupil on K-12 public education. A little over half of it is the instruction and instruction support budget, ~$7000.
Do you think $1000 is lot for a device, in that context?
not following what you're saying, but incremental improvements is how Apple rolls. Eight or nine years of this has delivered an amazing iPhone.
also:
http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?story=On_Xerox,_Apple_and_Progress.txt
Apple seems to work in an agile engineering mindset, something seemingly Microsoft only NOW applied.
That confuses people used to products that come out with every wizz bang under the sun, even though half are half baked...
Apple puts the screw on the competition and tighten the bolt every year until everyone has cried uncle.
Don't be so full of yourself.
Why would an AI global moderator get to belittle someone for expressing an opinion like this? I'd expect this kinda thing from the usual trolls, but not from an AI representative.
I thought the review was informative, but my opinion is that the iPad Pro is not for me. I too prefer the MacBook Air for what I use it for. I don't see the iPad Pro as a replacement either, but I'm not a graphic artist or professional as described in the article. Does that make me full of myself?
That said, I guess I can demand a refund of my AI subscription.
I don't know where all this Surface Pro hate is coming from. I'm using a refurbished SP3 and it's fantastic. It completely replaces my laptop on every level and more. And Windows 10 runs very well and does exactly what I want it to. Don't knock it till you've tried it
I am glad you have tech that works for you, and you are welcome to it. I've tried MS products in the past, and I don't like them. I've never been disappointed by an Apple device, and I've never lost data to a mac or iDevice. I can't say that about MS. I am forced to use a windows machine at work, and I curse it daily. Your experience sounds different, so yay. But I'm never going back. (MS isn't the only company I say that about. Pontiac/GM, and Sears are on that list too. YMMV.)
I really would like to see my employer adopt a "maintain your own tech" policy. Give everyone a fixed amount to buy their own device(s). Then dump the entire IT department. Got a tech problem? You solve it, and "the tech (dog) ate my homework" excuse not tolerated. It's the 21st century, and I work in an information based office. Tech skills and ability to do basics are a type of literacy that is expected. And we've gotten to the point where the Mac/PC difference in "compatibility" is now irrelevant. Get what you need/like and accept the consequences.
In my current grad courses, yeah still taking taken to refresh myself at 48..., 100% of students which bring laptops to class have Apple ones, that tells you everything.
And yes, books are hellishly expensive even in pdf form.
For one class on entrepreneurship, were books are kind of cheap compared to engineering manuals, the 4 mandatory ones are $100 bucks.
I've had classes with $400-500 of books (if you bought them new). Not to mentioned all the rest of crap you may need to buy.
In the 1980s, when I started university, a desktop was $5K minimum in todays money (mine cost $10K in todays money!!), many people couldn't afford that (I could) and so schools typically had huge computer labs were students used what by today's standard is horrible to do work on the computer itself, or to connect to mainframes (where you could get computer time to do your compiles or whatever).
Many here, and especially on Macrumors are beyond whiny, it's at a level of whinyness that just hurts my ears.
Computers, even super duper top ones, are dirt cheap right now; yet they keep on bitching!
I have calculated that the first computer my father bought [primarily because of my interest in computers] - in today's dollars - cost around $16,000 (at a 20% discount for educational). The first computer was an IBM PC, 64KB RAM (short of the 96KB RAM needed for the IBM x86 Assembler to use text messages instead of numeric), 2 Floppy Drives, CGA Graphics Card, Electrohome Colour Monitor, and a simple dot matrix printer, IBM PC DOS 1.1 (which did not support hard drives or directories - just the root folder). I think I have probably spent well over $100K myself over the years on hardware from Dell, ALR, Sun [workstation] and many BYOD (not to mention 20 x 400GB Western Digital hard drives of which 50% failed in the first year).
I figured my 2008 Mac Pro (best most solid computer I have bought) was probably 10,000 times more powerful than that first computer.
This cheapening out on Apple's parts by using last gen Touch ID and cameras is a worrying trend for this company. Schiller should be ashamed of himself. You just know this was his doing to make the inevitable iPad Pro 2 seem like more of an upgrade than it should be. Corporate greed is one of the worst facets of the 21st century and Apple are becoming ever more greedy these days. Anyone who defends Apple for these moves deserves how Apple treats you. A 420p FaceTime camera is a 1.5K new MacBook? Disgusting lack of respect for your loyal customers.
I agree with you 100%. There is absolutely no reason they couldn't include the high end parts of the iPhone 6S+ into this tablet. All it does is give them upgrade improvements for version 2.0 which is absolutely lame. To charge this much for a top end tablet and not use the most top end technology is sickening. The parts are already invented...just incorporate them! I have a new Macbook, and if the front facing camera was important to me it would have clouded my decision to buy it, but I use my iPad and iPhone for FaceTime and never my macbook, so the crappy camera wasn't an issue, but it's still a lame decision on a $1500 laptop that is just about perfect in every other aspect. Apple needs to be cutting edge on every release and push the envelop. Profit margins and Wall St. pressure are clouding the vision of this company, but are we not surprised?
So Apple knows they can only source x-many components which is enough for the iPhone series but not enough for the iPhone + iPod Touch + iPad lines, but you say that simply because the "parts are already invented" that they can purchase as many as they need like it's hitting copy paste in SW? That's what you're saying?
So Apple knows they can only source x-many components which is enough for the iPhone series but not enough for the iPhone + iPod Touch + iPad lines, but you say that simply because the "parts are already invented" that they can purchase as many as they need like it's hitting copy paste in SW? That's what you're saying?
So they are supposed to dumb down the worlds most premium expensive top of the line computer hardware because they can't keep up with production? Maybe they should lower their costs in that case.
Everything is a balance. If you don't like that then don't use anything ever made by anyone ever.
So they are supposed to dumb down the worlds most premium expensive top of the line computer hardware because they can't keep up with production? Maybe they should lower their costs in that case.
It is bad business to constrain sales artificially by increasing demand when supply cannot meet demand. The same reason why you would not introduce a high and low end Macbook when they introduced it earlier this year -- you introduce it on the higher end until you are no longer supply constrained and then introduce lower end models when you have supply. When you have two competing devices for components in short supply you decide what is the most important use cases and give preference to one or the other. These are all business decisions. Now step and think a little (I know it might be difficult). What is more important - the high end camera in the iPhone or in the IPad Pro? I have never used my iPad to take a picture, but it is important for many many people in their iPhones..... If you are always balancing compromises - where does that component make more sense? Now the touch id.... I find it funny that some people are finding ways to touch it in such a way that it does not activate touch id because touch id now is too fast.... What is the difference in speed? 5 ms? I am surprised to not hear you do the same complaining about the iPhone.... Screams of why oh why did they not put 4GB of memory and the A9X in the new iPhone..... oh right - it was a business decision on where it made more sense and where it was actually useful - and it was not worth it to increase cost (and price) of something that would rarely be used by most phone applications at this point.