Apple to pay Italy $348M, sign accord to circumvent allegations of unpaid taxes

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Comments

  • Reply 61 of 88
    ac1234ac1234 Posts: 138member
    onlyhope said:
    Actually, I think Mr. Cook has been quite articulate as to what Apple's 'vision' is. But since you seem to have a Day Trader approach to stock performance, you should sell your shares and invest in something else rather than whine about AAPL stock performance. I'm a stock holder and I could give a rats behind what 'Wall Street' thinks about AAPL. Today's stock markets are highly manipulated by trading entities that have almost nothing to do with company performance. As Jim Cramer noted on several occasions, "don't buy AAPL to trade, buy AAPL to hold."
    Your quoting Jim Cramer hardly generates confidence in investing matters...
  • Reply 62 of 88
    jonljonl Posts: 210member
    ac1234 said:
    onlyhope said:
    Actually, I think Mr. Cook has been quite articulate as to what Apple's 'vision' is. But since you seem to have a Day Trader approach to stock performance, you should sell your shares and invest in something else rather than whine about AAPL stock performance. I'm a stock holder and I could give a rats behind what 'Wall Street' thinks about AAPL. Today's stock markets are highly manipulated by trading entities that have almost nothing to do with company performance. As Jim Cramer noted on several occasions, "don't buy AAPL to trade, buy AAPL to hold."
    Your quoting Jim Cramer hardly generates confidence in investing matters...
    Posting three copies of the same message as his only three posts hardly generates confidence in his identity as a poster. I mean, he's almost as redundant as sog.
  • Reply 63 of 88
    ac1234ac1234 Posts: 138member
    jonl said:
    ac1234 said:
    Your quoting Jim Cramer hardly generates confidence in investing matters...
    Posting three copies of the same message as his only three posts hardly generates confidence in his identity as a poster. I mean, he's almost as redundant as sog.

  • Reply 64 of 88
    ac1234 said:
    onlyhope said:
    Actually, I think Mr. Cook has been quite articulate as to what Apple's 'vision' is. But since you seem to have a Day Trader approach to stock performance, you should sell your shares and invest in something else rather than whine about AAPL stock performance. I'm a stock holder and I could give a rats behind what 'Wall Street' thinks about AAPL. Today's stock markets are highly manipulated by trading entities that have almost nothing to do with company performance. As Jim Cramer noted on several occasions, "don't buy AAPL to trade, buy AAPL to hold."
    Your quoting Jim Cramer hardly generates confidence in investing matters...
    I didn't say I followed his strategies - I don't - although he seems to have done OK. I just happen to agree with that quote.
  • Reply 65 of 88
    cnocbuicnocbui Posts: 3,613member
    Shouldn't Italy's beef be with Ireland, not Apple?
    I thought that all of these tax laws in EU countries were supposed to be "harmonized"? That wasn't Apple's fault. Apple should sue the EU for unfair trade practices and lodge a formal complaint with the WTO.

    If this "tax disaster" continues (and it could potentially cost Apple many billions in lost profits), Tim will be fired. The shareholders will demand it and the Apple BOD will be obligated.
    You thought wrong. There are those in the EU who WANT tax laws to be harmonised but my guess is the break up of the EU would be more likely.

    Stop spouting BS. Everyone in the room knows Apple has been possibly the most aggressive company on the planet when it comes to creating and implementing tax minimisation schemes and has been getting away with it to an insane degree. They have been skating on thin ice and everyone knows it. Squealing that it 'wasn't Apples fault' is incomprehensible.

    You are are a prime example of why the EU should never, ever, ever, ever, ever proceed with the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership or anything like it.
    edited December 2015 argonaut
  • Reply 66 of 88
    crowleycrowley Posts: 8,179member
    sog35 said:
    icoco3 said:

    You should take that 1 year self ban now.
    I'll take my ban in 2017. Once Tim Cook is fired.
    No one believed you when you made similar promises before, they're certainly not going to believe you now that you went back on your word.
    icoco3singularityronnxbitdrewys808thepixeldocbestkeptsecretargonaut
  • Reply 67 of 88
    cnocbui said:
    I thought that all of these tax laws in EU countries were supposed to be "harmonized"? That wasn't Apple's fault. Apple should sue the EU for unfair trade practices and lodge a formal complaint with the WTO.

    If this "tax disaster" continues (and it could potentially cost Apple many billions in lost profits), Tim will be fired. The shareholders will demand it and the Apple BOD will be obligated.
    You thought wrong. There are those in the EU who WANT tax laws to be harmonised but my guess is the break up of the EU would be more likely.

    Stop spouting BS. Everyone in the room knows Apple has been possibly the most aggressive company on the planet when it comes to creating and implementing tax minimisation schemes and has been getting away with it to an insane degree. They have been skating on thin ice and everyone knows it.

    You are are a prime example of why the EU should never, ever, ever, ever, ever proceed with the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership or anything like it.
    LOL! I'm against the TPP! 
    cnocbui
  • Reply 68 of 88
    cnocbuicnocbui Posts: 3,613member
    Shouldn't Italy's beef be with Ireland, not Apple?
    Since Ireland doesn't sell iPhones in Italy, nor submit tax returns to the Italian tax authorities - no.
  • Reply 69 of 88
    jonljonl Posts: 210member
    onlyhope said:

    I didn't say I followed his strategies - I don't - although he seems to have done OK. I just happen to agree with that quote.
    Again, Cramer was saying, "Own Apple, don't trade it" in 2012 as it declined from its highs. His charitable trust went on to sell its small position and bought back in during 2013 and 2014.
  • Reply 70 of 88
    Despicable how Apple, and so many other companies are shirking their tax liabilities. Glad to see Italy doing this; the European Union has more guts than our corporate-beholden reps. I remember both California senators, both democrats, coming out (for about one week) in favor of Apple's self-serving 5% repatriation tax (holiday). Shameful. 
    cnocbui
  • Reply 71 of 88
    icoco3icoco3 Posts: 1,467member
    crowley said:
    sog35 said:
    I'll take my ban in 2017. Once Tim Cook is fired.
    No one believed you when you made similar promises before, they're certainly not going to believe you now that you went back on your word.
    The ban was for either $150/share or 15 million Applewatches by the end of this year. I can't remember which but neither have hit so he has to ban himself effective tomorrow at midnight for 1 year.

    http://forums.appleinsider.com/discussion/190373
    edited December 2015 thepixeldoc
  • Reply 72 of 88
    crowleycrowley Posts: 8,179member
    icoco3 said:
    crowley said:
    No one believed you when you made similar promises before, they're certainly not going to believe you now that you went back on your word.
    The ban was for either $150/share or 15 million Applewatches by the end of this year. I can't remember which but neither have hit so he has to ban himself effective tomorrow at midnight for 1 year.

    http://forums.appleinsider.com/discussion/190373
    I was referring to this: http://forums.appleinsider.com/discussion/comment/2814350/#Comment_2814350
    sog35 said:

    This will be my last post here for 12 months.  
    I lost my bet that Apple see's $150.
    So long.  See you on 12/14/16.  Or maybe never.

    icoco3xbitdrewys808argonaut
  • Reply 73 of 88
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    sog35 said:
    mjtomlin said:
    sog35 said:
    And the stock is down $6 billion today because of a $300 million fine.

    Friken ridiculous.  Its time to fire Tim Cook and install a CEO who knows how to deal with Wall Street. 

    LMAO

    This has to be the dumbest comment ever posted.
    Why is it dumb?  This fine is the only reason the stock is down so much. 

    Because of Tim Cook every single slight negative gets blown out of proportion. The reason is because Wall Street thinks Apple is a hardware company, the iPhone Inc.  And that is a failure of Tim Cook not conviencing Wall Street Apple is an ecosystem company.
      So you know the individuals selling the stock and the reasons why they are selling? Might it not have something to do with the economy in general being in the gutter. That and the fact that Apples stock price has been of late over valued, no one should be surprised that a correction has and will happen.

    As for your trying to hook Tim Cook into this issue you might want to consider a few things. One, this has been going on fo a long while. Second, ecosystems are not hard products all on their own. Why you would try to link Apples ecosystems to the issue of paying taxes is beyond me. In fact demonstrate to us how any of this is directly related to the minor price changes we are seeing. You can't because Wall Street is an enigma and finding root causes for a stocks movement is often very difficult.

      Beyond all of that it is Christmas / New Years, why are you so wrapped up in the price change of one stock. You honestly sound like one of those idiots that is about to jump out of a high rise window to end it all. Sit back and smell the roses there is more to life than Apples stock price at any one moment.
    edited December 2015
  • Reply 74 of 88
    onlyhope said:
    ac1234 said:
    Your quoting Jim Cramer hardly generates confidence in investing matters...
    I didn't say I followed his strategies - I don't - although he seems to have done OK. I just happen to agree with that quote.
    The people that have made money on AAPL over the past 3.25 years are the day traders / options traders / short term sellers.  We long term holders are the ones that have seen UNDER PERFORMANCE on AAPL.

    You and Jim Cramer have it totally WRONG over the past 3+ years.  Not opinion - fact.
    edited December 2015
  • Reply 75 of 88
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    sog35 said:
    Since Sept 2012:

    Apple is up 10%
    Nasdaq is up 63%
    Dow is up 33%
    S&P500 up 45%

    Despite Apple having 300% more revenue growth and profit growth than Nasdaq/Dow/S&P

    This is an absolute FAILURE on Tim Cook's fault. 
    Wall Street views Apple as iPhone Inc.  That is 100% on Tim Cook. He has had THREE  YEARS to change the message and he has FAILED.  Its time for him to get replaced with someone who knows how to communicate with Wall Street. Look at the Microsoft CEO. Look at the Google CEO.  Look at the Tesla, Amazon, Facebook CEO. They all know how to deal with Wall Street.  Tim Cook has NO IDEA.  
    My god man, you are completely off the rails here. Apple is the iPhone company, everything they currently are is a direct result of the success of iPhone. The problem is if you are a one horse business and that horse gets sick you are screwed! Wall Street is absolutely correct in their appraisal of Apple, investing in Apple is a big gamble that depends upon them continuing to achieve mindshare with iPhone. If you look rationally at what has happened to most of the other cell phone companies you should see why Apple is such a gamble, everything about Apple right now depends upon Apple being able to continue success with iPhone. If iPhone slips all of that ecosystem goes with it.


     If anything Apple has been over valued in the financial world. Until they can come up with an income stream not tied to iPhone, that is a significant proportion of earnings, they will be vulnerable. That Wall Street can see what you can't see is more a problem with you not Apple, not Tim Cook and certainly not Wall Street. Apple is a massive gamble that requires that iPhine remain on the top of the heap for the foreseeable future.
    edited December 2015 singularitycnocbuiargonaut
  • Reply 76 of 88
    ac1234 said:
    onlyhope said:
    I didn't say I followed his strategies - I don't - although he seems to have done OK. I just happen to agree with that quote.
    The people that have made money on AAPL over the past 3.25 years are the day traders / options traders / short term sellers.  We long term holders are the ones that have seen UNDERPERFORMANCE on AAPL.

    You and Jim Cramer have it totally WRONG over the past 3+ years.  Not opinion fact.
    Since I rarely Sell AAPL (Buy, yes) the stock price is not how I measure the Company performance. Now, an increase in Dividends is always welcome. I don't have the slightest idea what you consider 'underperformance' and I don't consider 3.25 years as long-term. I've made a pretty good return on my AAPL investment over the past 25 years and expect to continue to do so. If you haven't, you might ought to sell your holdings at the first bump and try something else.
  • Reply 77 of 88

    My god man, you are completely off the rails here. Apple is the iPhone company, everything they currently are is a direct result of the success of iPhone. The problem is if you are a one horse business and that horse gets sick you are screwed! Wall Street is absolutely correct in their appraisal of Apple, investing in Apple is a big gamble that depends upon them continuing to achieve mindshare with iPhone. If you look rationally at what has happened to most of the other cell phone companies you should see why Apple is such a gamble, everything about Apple right now depends upon Apple being able to continue success with iPhone. If iPhone slips all of that ecosystem goes with it.


     If anything Apple has been over valued in the financial world. Until they can come up with an income stream not tied to iPhone, that is a significant proportion of earnings, they will be vulnerable. That Wall Street can see what you can't see is more a problem with you not Apple, not Tim Cook and certainly not Wall Street. Apple is a massive gamble that requires that iPhine remain on the top of the heap for the foreseeable future.
    wizard - agree with the majority of your post right up to the "...That Wall Street can see what you can't see is more a problem with you not Apple, not Tim Cook..." quote.

    Of course it IS his fault - he is the CEO who needs to be correcting the things you point out.  He is sitting on a huge pile of cash that should be returned to investors.  He needs to be vastly more effective in interfacing with Wall Street.  He owns the movie streaming flop that Cue has mismanaged.  He owns the Homekit whatever is going on.  Those are examples of Cook not performing.
  • Reply 78 of 88
    wizard69 said:

    My god man, you are completely off the rails here. Apple is the iPhone company, everything they currently are is a direct result of the success of iPhone. The problem is if you are a one horse business and that horse gets sick you are screwed! Wall Street is absolutely correct in their appraisal of Apple, investing in Apple is a big gamble that depends upon them continuing to achieve mindshare with iPhone. If you look rationally at what has happened to most of the other cell phone companies you should see why Apple is such a gamble, everything about Apple right now depends upon Apple being able to continue success with iPhone. If iPhone slips all of that ecosystem goes with it.


     If anything Apple has been over valued in the financial world. Until they can come up with an income stream not tied to iPhone, that is a significant proportion of earnings, they will be vulnerable. That Wall Street can see what you can't see is more a problem with you not Apple, not Tim Cook and certainly not Wall Street. Apple is a massive gamble that requires that iPhine remain on the top of the heap for the foreseeable future.
    LOL. Nonsense from A-to-Z.
  • Reply 79 of 88
    icoco3icoco3 Posts: 1,467member
    crowley said:
    icoco3 said:
    The ban was for either $150/share or 15 million Applewatches by the end of this year. I can't remember which but neither have hit so he has to ban himself effective tomorrow at midnight for 1 year.

    http://forums.appleinsider.com/discussion/190373
    I was referring to this: http://forums.appleinsider.com/discussion/comment/2814350/#Comment_2814350
    Good find, I was looking for his comments.  Now it is official, he needs to self ban.
    SpamSandwich
  • Reply 80 of 88
    icoco3 said:
    crowley said:
    Good find, I was looking for his comments.  Now it is official, he needs to self ban.
    Let's make sure the mods are up to date and help him enforce his own "self-ban". A year without a Sog post would be a good year.

    Happy Sogless New Year!
    edited December 2015 singularity
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