So Apple released a MacBook with no ports other than usb, and you guys are now surprised that this might be happening? In the future I see iPhones only coming with usb c....
if we let you guys tell it, the iPhone will still use a headphone jack 100 years from now.
This absolutely is a risky move. That jack is used by millions of people every single day. Apple may have very good reasons for eliminating the headphone jack but those reasons better be immediately apparent and ones that people can easily understand and accept. Like making the phone as water resistant as possible, allowing for a bigger battery etc. If people think it's just so Apple could make the phone slightly thinner or sell them a pricey adapter it will be a huge turnoff and could impact iPhone sales.
Your exact argument has been made every single time a legacy port is obsoleted. I vividly remember your argument being made when the Bondi Blue iMac made its debut without a floppy disk drive. Floppy disks were used by “millions of people every single day” and the new iMac would be an epic fail without the drive. Why would anybody pay extra for an external drive? Apple was Doomed™.
What about credit card readers and other devices that use the headphone jack?
Bingo. It's all about the money. They want crush all the 3rd party payment systems that are "free-loading" off of iOS hardware and switch more retailers to Apple Pay.
Clearly Apple has data on what percentage of iPhone owners use the headphones supplied in the box vs 3rd party. If that's a large number then I can see Apple getting rid of the headphone jack. My question is would Apple go wireless? If not would the solution allow you to listen to audio and charge the device at the same time?
You mean wireless charging, right? But i don't see why they can't make it charge and output digital or analog signal at the same time. I know analog only take 3 contacts for stereo and 4 if it includes the mic. And I'm sure digital only needs 2 contacts as the digital coax connector on my CD player has only 2 contacts. And then one would still need another 2 contacts for the mic. Lightning connector has 8 contacts. But I'm not sure how many contacts needed for charging. The question is will it output both digital and analog at the same time. Or will the user have to select it or will the lightning connector automatically sense which one to use.
I think what Apple is doing with the headphone jack is that they're are going digital. Rumors has it that AppleMusic will be offering a HiRez format. If most people access their AppleMusic account using an iPhone, what's the point of offering HiRez music if the quality on the music is limited by the internal DAC and the 3.5mm analog headphone jack?
If they can output a digital signal, so one can use a better sounding external DAC that is either built into the headphones, on an external headphone amp or connected to a home stereo, then it would make sense why Apple is converting their audio output on the iPhone (and hopefully an iPod) to the lightning connector. And it can't be done using a 3.5mm audio jack. Unless they do what they did on Macs, that is incorporate optical in it.
All of which 1) should make people question this rumor and 2) IF it is true assume a lot of research was done before the decision was made. Something like this could absolutely impact iPhone sales in a negative way. LOTS more people use the headphone jack than used 30-pin accessories. And people that have expensive headphones aren't going to toss those for new lightening or BT ones, they'll either not upgrade their phone or get a different phone.
On the flip side though, if most iPhone owners use the included EarPods then they'll just use whatever replacement Apple puts in the box so I don't see how this is a big money maker for Apple.
I don't agree with this assertion… I feel Apple is far more motivated by profit margins these days than research into what users want. Case in point… I know an older person who is having a hell of a time trying to using the remote on the new Apple TV because his hands shake. You'd figure good product research would have seen that coming.
This absolutely is a risky move. That jack is used by millions of people every single day. Apple may have very good reasons for eliminating the headphone jack but those reasons better be immediately apparent and ones that people can easily understand and accept. Like making the phone as water resistant as possible, allowing for a bigger battery etc. If people think it's just so Apple could make the phone slightly thinner or sell them a pricey adapter it will be a huge turnoff and could impact iPhone sales.
Your exact argument has been made every single time a legacy port is obsoleted. I vividly remember your argument being made when the Bondi Blue iMac made its debut without a floppy disk drive. Floppy disks were used by “millions of people every single day” and the new iMac would be an epic fail without the drive. Why would anybody pay extra for an external drive? Apple was Doomed™.
The difference is that the headphone jack is not substituted with a better alternative, the DAC is just duplicated and moved to the headphones or the cable.
Rumors has it that AppleMusic will be offering a HiRez format. If most people access their AppleMusic account using an iPhone, what's the point of offering HiRez music if the quality on the music is limited by the internal DAC and the 3.5mm analog headphone jack?
If they can output a digital signal, so one can use a better sounding external DAC that is either built into the headphones, on an external headphone amp or connected to a home stereo, then it would make sense why Apple is converting their audio output on the iPhone (and hopefully an iPod) to the lightning connector. And it can't be done using a 3.5mm audio jack. Unless they do what they did on Macs, that is incorporate optical in it.
What? Are you saying that a headphone jack doesn't have the quality to listen hirez digital music? Can you explain us what people is using right now to listen to this audio? And can you explain how headphones and analog audio work?
Ps. Optical audio needs a DAC to convert the signal to be played in headphones or speakers
If they can output a digital signal, so one can use a better sounding external DAC that is either built into the headphones, on an external headphone amp or connected to a home stereo, then it would make sense why Apple is converting their audio output on the iPhone (and hopefully an iPod) to the lightning connector. And it can't be done using a 3.5mm audio jack. Unless they do what they did on Macs, that is incorporate optical in it.
This absolutely is a risky move. That jack is used by millions of people every single day. Apple may have very good reasons for eliminating the headphone jack but those reasons better be immediately apparent and ones that people can easily understand and accept. Like making the phone as water resistant as possible, allowing for a bigger battery etc. If people think it's just so Apple could make the phone slightly thinner or sell them a pricey adapter it will be a huge turnoff and could impact iPhone sales.
Your exact argument has been made every single time a legacy port is obsoleted. I vividly remember your argument being made when the Bondi Blue iMac made its debut without a floppy disk drive. Floppy disks were used by “millions of people every single day” and the new iMac would be an epic fail without the drive. Why would anybody pay extra for an external drive? Apple was Doomed™.
Again I said the benefits need to be apparent. If people think Apple removed the headphone jack just so they can make the phone a couple mm thinner it will piss people off and could impact the brand.
The biggest issue I have with a wireless or bluetooth connection vs wired is there is a latency in Bluetooth that makes it impossible to play/hear in realtime musical instruments.
So Apple released a MacBook with no ports other than usb, and you guys are now surprised that this might be happening? In the future I see iPhones only coming with usb c....
if we let you guys tell it, the iPhone will still use a headphone jack 100 years from now.
And why is bad using a headphone jack?
What's so bad about using CDs?
I will say, I haven't used an aux cable since I got a car with Bluetooth, so I'm not mad at this forward progression
Your exact argument has been made every single time a legacy port is obsoleted. I vividly remember your argument being made when the Bondi Blue iMac made its debut without a floppy disk drive. Floppy disks were used by “millions of people every single day” and the new iMac would be an epic fail without the drive. Why would anybody pay extra for an external drive? Apple was Doomed™.
Again I said the benefits need to be apparent. If people think Apple removed the headphone jack just so they can make the phone a couple mm thinner it will piss people off and could impact the brand.
Why the need for a headphone jack when there is a very capable Lightning port next to it?
While one might argue that the 3.5mm headphone jack is long overdue for replacement, one might also argue that any such replacement must offer some compelling benefit to justify its cost and inconvenience. IMO an infinitesimally thinner iPhone with modestly improved battery life doesn't come close to justifying the expense and hassle of replacing (potentially expensive) corded headphones with Bluetooth or Lightning variants that won't work with existing analog devices.
Macs got significantly sleeker after the removal of floppy and optical drives. I can't imagine a similarly impressive improvement resulting from removing the headphone jack on an iPhone.
This Apple-obsession with thinness is getting asinine
iPhone is Apple's cash cow. If they're removing the headphone jack it's not to make the phone a few mm thinner. Plus the iPod touch is thinner than the iPhone but still uses the 3.5mm headphone jack. IF Apple is doing this they better include decent wireless headphones in the box along with an adapter. Taking away the headphone jack and then telling people they can get an adapter for $30 would be horrible for sales. The fact that Apple Pencil comes with a charging adapter even though you can charge it from any lightening port makes me hopeful.
I'm starting to believe they are actually going to do this but the question I have is ... which headset do they throw in the box? If they put wireless in there will always be people that aren't happy and want a wired alternative. If they put lightning headphones in, there will always be people who want the wireless.
I'm guessing, like you, that they will put new wireless earbuds in the box and tout the futuristic aspects of that etc., but that still going to leave a lot of angry people who now have to pay hundreds of dollars for wired headphones. They would be wise to announce new Beats lightning-based headphones on the same day, and have the capability to make that happen, but still ... the last pair of Beats I bought was $500.
People are NOT going to like this, whichever way Apple goes.
I know that personally I won't wear Bluetooth earbuds just on aesthetic grounds alone. They look ridiculous with that stupid wire hanging under your chin. And I'm not the type to walk around with a giant set of cans on my head either. Neither of these are subtle, attractive or vey "Apple-like" options IMO.
IF Apple is doing this they better include decent wireless headphones in the box along with an adapter.
Nope. Wireless headphones cost at least $80 (make that $200+ for an Apple/Beats model.) Apple can't force everyone to pay for BT headsets nor will they eat the cost of providing a pair for free. So if and when they ditch the 3.5mm headphone jack, they'll just include a Lightning version of the current earbuds.
codog24 said: ... It's already a widely held believe that the phone is thin enough as it is. ...
I disagree with this part. If this were true then no one would salivate over the new, ever so slightly thinner phones each year. Gruber wouldn't publish articles about how things "feel in the hand" and bad French artists wouldn't publish ridiculous "renders" of impossibly thin devices on 9to5Mac.
Meanwhile the Samsung S7 will reportedly include the best portable device DAC ever made with 129dB dynamic range and -120dB (0.0001%) harmonic distortion.
Samsung Electronics warns of tough 2016 amid fourth-quarter outlook concerns
What about credit card readers and other devices that use the headphone jack?
Bingo. It's all about the money. They want crush all the 3rd party payment systems that are "free-loading" off of iOS hardware and switch more retailers to Apple Pay.
So Apple's removing the headphone jack to screw Square? Seriously people need to think about this more. Apple's not making money if people stop buying iPhones.
larrya said: ... I will consider walking again for this, but don't know what real options there are other than Windows. I guess I'll hang onto my 6 forever..
I think you point out a very great, very under-recognised factor in iPhone sales with this comment.
I'm an Apple user from the very beginning and like a lot of my tech-infested "Apple-ite" friends, I'm kind of sour on Apple these last few years and dislike a lot of the things they've done and the directions they've gone in, but ... what are you gonna do?
If you want even a borderline useable device that's well designed, Apple is it. The only game in town. If you want integration with your desktop OS, ease of use, reliable designs, and the whole ecosystem, you pretty much have to go Apple. There is no alternative. At least no rational, "good" alternative.
I think both Apple and the press seriously underestimate how many people there are that think Apple has actually become a kind of shitty company, with very well designed but seriously overpriced products ... but then they still buy them because there's nothing else out there. I think that lots of folks actually feel trapped in the Apple ecosystem now, but because they keep buying ... Apple is under the impression that all is well and good.
Comments
Your exact argument has been made every single time a legacy port is obsoleted. I vividly remember your argument being made when the Bondi Blue iMac made its debut without a floppy disk drive. Floppy disks were used by “millions of people every single day” and the new iMac would be an epic fail without the drive. Why would anybody pay extra for an external drive? Apple was Doomed™.
https://youtu.be/Q8Tiz6INF7I
You mean wireless charging, right? But i don't see why they can't make it charge and output digital or analog signal at the same time. I know analog only take 3 contacts for stereo and 4 if it includes the mic. And I'm sure digital only needs 2 contacts as the digital coax connector on my CD player has only 2 contacts. And then one would still need another 2 contacts for the mic. Lightning connector has 8 contacts. But I'm not sure how many contacts needed for charging. The question is will it output both digital and analog at the same time. Or will the user have to select it or will the lightning connector automatically sense which one to use.
I think what Apple is doing with the headphone jack is that they're are going digital. Rumors has it that AppleMusic will be offering a HiRez format. If most people access their AppleMusic account using an iPhone, what's the point of offering HiRez music if the quality on the music is limited by the internal DAC and the 3.5mm analog headphone jack?
If they can output a digital signal, so one can use a better sounding external DAC that is either built into the headphones, on an external headphone amp or connected to a home stereo, then it would make sense why Apple is converting their audio output on the iPhone (and hopefully an iPod) to the lightning connector. And it can't be done using a 3.5mm audio jack. Unless they do what they did on Macs, that is incorporate optical in it.
http://appleinsider.com/articles/15/12/20/apple-music-reportedly-preparing-hi-res-audio-streaming-for-2016
Ps. Optical audio needs a DAC to convert the signal to be played in headphones or speakers
Lightning already outputs a digital signal.
What's so bad about using CDs?
I will say, I haven't used an aux cable since I got a car with Bluetooth, so I'm not mad at this forward progression
While one might argue that the 3.5mm headphone jack is long overdue for replacement, one might also argue that any such replacement must offer some compelling benefit to justify its cost and inconvenience. IMO an infinitesimally thinner iPhone with modestly improved battery life doesn't come close to justifying the expense and hassle of replacing (potentially expensive) corded headphones with Bluetooth or Lightning variants that won't work with existing analog devices.
Macs got significantly sleeker after the removal of floppy and optical drives. I can't imagine a similarly impressive improvement resulting from removing the headphone jack on an iPhone.
I'm guessing, like you, that they will put new wireless earbuds in the box and tout the futuristic aspects of that etc., but that still going to leave a lot of angry people who now have to pay hundreds of dollars for wired headphones. They would be wise to announce new Beats lightning-based headphones on the same day, and have the capability to make that happen, but still ... the last pair of Beats I bought was $500.
People are NOT going to like this, whichever way Apple goes.
I know that personally I won't wear Bluetooth earbuds just on aesthetic grounds alone. They look ridiculous with that stupid wire hanging under your chin. And I'm not the type to walk around with a giant set of cans on my head either. Neither of these are subtle, attractive or vey "Apple-like" options IMO.
Nope. Wireless headphones cost at least $80 (make that $200+ for an Apple/Beats model.) Apple can't force everyone to pay for BT headsets nor will they eat the cost of providing a pair for free. So if and when they ditch the 3.5mm headphone jack, they'll just include a Lightning version of the current earbuds.
I disagree with this part. If this were true then no one would salivate over the new, ever so slightly thinner phones each year. Gruber wouldn't publish articles about how things "feel in the hand" and bad French artists wouldn't publish ridiculous "renders" of impossibly thin devices on 9to5Mac.
Samsung Electronics warns of tough 2016 amid fourth-quarter outlook concerns
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-samsung-elec-outlook-idUSKBN0UI06920160104I think you point out a very great, very under-recognised factor in iPhone sales with this comment.
I'm an Apple user from the very beginning and like a lot of my tech-infested "Apple-ite" friends, I'm kind of sour on Apple these last few years and dislike a lot of the things they've done and the directions they've gone in, but ... what are you gonna do?
If you want even a borderline useable device that's well designed, Apple is it. The only game in town. If you want integration with your desktop OS, ease of use, reliable designs, and the whole ecosystem, you pretty much have to go Apple. There is no alternative. At least no rational, "good" alternative.
I think both Apple and the press seriously underestimate how many people there are that think Apple has actually become a kind of shitty company, with very well designed but seriously overpriced products ... but then they still buy them because there's nothing else out there. I think that lots of folks actually feel trapped in the Apple ecosystem now, but because they keep buying ... Apple is under the impression that all is well and good.