I don't think they are going to use Lightning for audio-jack as such. Sure, they can remove 3.5 mm audio jack, but the next version phones will perhaps ship with Bluetooth enabled headphones that can be charged via Lightening connector - just like new iPad Pro Pencil
Now, I do think third-party vendors will start supporting/shipping the connectors
Because it was designed in 1878 (137 years ago!), and is pretty much the last analogue connector that exists in a world that has long since gone digital.
Considering the rapid pace of technology, it's a miracle that it still exists really.
This argument is based on the premise that "old" automatically equals "bad." I don't think that's a valid argument. The moving-coil-attached-to-a-diaphram we use to reproduce sound is also a century-old design and it persists because no one has yet come up with a practical, viable, cost-effective alternative. One might also argue that the continuing use of the phone jack is a testament to its value and suitability for its intended task.
That aside, the "last link" between storage and hearing is necessarily analog. Moving the conversion downstream from one device to the next doesn't change that. *IF* there is a tangible benefit to eliminating the 3.5mm jack I'm open to considering it, but my initial reaction is that it would have to be a hell of a good reason to justify eliminating a time-proven, virtually universal, low-cost interface.
This absolutely is a risky move. That jack is used by millions of people every single day. Apple may have very good reasons for eliminating the headphone jack but those reasons better be immediately apparent and ones that people can easily understand and accept. Like making the phone as water resistant as possible, allowing for a bigger battery etc. If people think it's just so Apple could make the phone slightly thinner or sell them a pricey adapter it will be a huge turnoff and could impact iPhone sales.
I agree with the above people. This is Apple's attempt for getting more money by adding an adapter feature. I already dislike the iPhone because it is an overpriced "phone." I have an iPhone 6 currently and will not be upgrading to the next version because of Apple's game playing. Making it thinner is just an excuse for these "changes." I will be going back to a basic flip phone. Less garbage to deal with... and cheaper too.
This probably wins the "stupid comment of the month" award. Congrats.
Thanks for opening our eyes to Apple's "game-playing", and enlightening us with this earth-shattering solution, which is going back to a flip phone. And you're telling us they're also CHEAPER?! Mind-blowing, especially considering that flip phones basically do one thing, while the iPhone is a meticulously designed pocket super-computer with a gazillion sensors, bleeding edge technology, and an ecosystem of millions of apps.
But let us know how that works out for you, we're all envious of your keen intellect and your awareness of Apple's shenanigans. Also, maybe you should get back on your meds, since you've apparently made the dramatic decision of switching to a flip phone based on a rumor of something that may or may not happen to a phone that Apple will release 9 months from now, even though your iPhone 6 should work perfectly for years to come.
All of which 1) should make people question this rumor and 2) IF it is true assume a lot of research was done before the decision was made. Something like this could absolutely impact iPhone sales in a negative way. LOTS more people use the headphone jack than used 30-pin accessories. And people that have expensive headphones aren't going to toss those for new lightening or BT ones, they'll either not upgrade their phone or get a different phone.On the flip side though, if most iPhone owners use the included EarPods then they'll just use whatever replacement Apple puts in the box so I don't see how this is a big money maker for Apple.
The compatibility issue for existing/high-end headphones can be mitigated with a simple adapter. I'm sure Apple will consider carefully whether to include said adapter for free or sell it for the usual $39 as a high-margin accessory. As you noted, most users will just use the included earbuds which will then use a Lightning connector. Nothing about this scenario should turn away a significant number of prospective iPhone buyers, though the usual suspects will be complaining that Apple is doomed.
It would be nice, though, if Apple made the effort to show some real world benefit from this change, other than some infinitesimal reduction in thickness that nobody cares about except Jony Ive's team. Water resistance would be a huge benefit, but I can't imagine a truly water resistant iPhone until they get rid of the Lightning port as well.
It's ludicrous to suggest that we should be stuck with the 3.5mm jack forever, yet that is precisely what's being implied by all the whiners.
"I'm sure Apple will consider carefully whether to include said adapter for free or sell it for the usual $39 as a high-margin accessory."
Judging by the reaction so far, and how important the iPhone brand is to Apple as a whole, it would be wise for them to just include the adaptor.
This Apple-obsession with thinness is getting asinine
No, this is about money. 50 million Lightning to 3.5mm adapters at $30 each with an 80% markup - ka-ching! 50 million beats headphones with lossy bluetooth and an 80% markup - ka-Ching. license fees from 200 million third party lightning chip sporting headphones and earbuds - ka-ching.
absolute nonsense. get real -- apple is already printing money. they make nearly ALL the profit in mobile (and PCs for that matter). they dont even know what to do with it all. it makes absolutely no sense to risk pissing people off with a major change just to sell adapters.
Asinine? Why? If anything it's forward thinking and progression. It's not like they ever compromise quality to be thin. this makes sense to me.
They will conveniently provide an accessory solution that allows our phones plugin support to the existing audio headset format. It's not a huge deal in my opinion. Being Apple fans , investors, hobbyists, and supporters, we should be used to this paradigm by now.
It's asinine because it appears to be change for change's sake.
ah -- so you've sat in on the design meetings? where they told you it was a change just for change's sake, despite Ive explicitly stating they dont do that very thing? hmm. yeah, I'm gonna say you're full of it.
First thing I do when I get a new phone is toss the crap headphones in the garbage, now they're expecting us to listen to audio via Bluetooth? For some of us that care about audio quality this SUCKS!
they buy an adapter and stop complaining. if you dont want to buy an adapter, start a new company in your garage and challenge the status quo. easy, right?
I actually don't think it's that risky, especially if the iPhone 7 ships with wireless earpods.
I wouldn't be surprised if Apple is making their own wireless EarPods but I would be surprised if those are the ones included in the box. If anything, I would expect Apple to include Lightning-only EarPods with every iPhone 7 / 7S
This still creates a problem for an absolutely huge number of users though.
I use Apple in-ear headphones (mostly because I have a white iPhone), but even they cost $100 or so. If Apple does this to the next iPhone, even if they provide a lightning version of these headphones, it still leaves me buying a new $100 pair of headphones just in order to be able to use the new phone, whether they are wired or wireless. I have to consider the typical $1000 for a new iPhone, plus another hundred. It could easily be enough to make me hold off the purchase all other things being equal.
There is a large segment of Apple's market (say 40-50%) that use the "in the box" earbud option for headphones, but only a very small group that uses Bluetooth headphones. Everyone else will have to buy new gear. Even if you assume that *most* people use Apple's earbuds and it's more like 80% instead of 40% ... 20% of 200 million devices is still a lot of people that will have to fork over for new headphones. It would be much smarter of Apple to phase in a change like this over several years/models, like put lightning headphones in the box this year, but also leave in the jack, only to phase it out at a later date. I don't see anyway to pull this off in one year all at once without seriously disadvantaging and pissing off a LOT of people.
Someone should go and buy www.audiogate.com or www.earbudgate.com right now if they are still available because it will cause a serious shit-storm. Guaranteed.
All of which 1) should make people question this rumor and 2) IF it is true assume a lot of research was done before the decision was made. Something like this could absolutely impact iPhone sales in a negative way. LOTS more people use the headphone jack than used 30-pin accessories. And people that have expensive headphones aren't going to toss those for new lightening or BT ones, they'll either not upgrade their phone or get a different phone.
On the flip side though, if most iPhone owners use the included EarPods then they'll just use whatever replacement Apple puts in the box so I don't see how this is a big money maker for Apple.
I don't agree with this assertion… I feel Apple is far more motivated by profit margins these days than research into what users want. Case in point… I know an older person who is having a hell of a time trying to using the remote on the new Apple TV because his hands shake. You'd figure good product research would have seen that coming.
what the fuck does that have to do with being motivated only by profit margin? nothing. (i dont like the new remote either, but i dont think they designed it this way due to....uh, greed).
How does the removal of the headphone socket materially benefit you personally?
Like with the ODD and countless other components that have outlived their potential in a modern computing world, removing them allows for innovation to progress.
The ODD took up about 25% of the internal base of the 13% MBP, was slow, was comparatively and used a lot of power, was loud, and more prone to break compared to more modern options. It also required over 12cm of the side of the notebook be dedicated for the slot/tray.
With the 3.5mm jack assembly (DAC, and other requisite components) we're surely talking a lot less than 25% for the aforementioned 13" MBP's ODD, but it still takes up space, still, and requires engineers to work around its side-edge placement (which can likely only be at the top and bottom). There are obviously other potential issues that wait R&D time and money, and create roadblocks for innovation, like there being an additional open port to deal with when trying to make a device more water resistant.
if the difference is popping in a reversible plug v a cylindrical plug into a port, the cylindrical one is most likely easier, but that "win" has to be so slight that I'd say it would be silly for one to argue that as a defense—note: I haven't seen anyone argue that today.
To me, its removal is obviously going to happen at some point in the next few years. The only thing I haven't been able to determine is where Apple will include a DAC with the Lightning chip which will use some pins, in conjunction of the other 8 pins being added to each device for USB 3.0 speeds, for analog audio in and out, or if the DAC is no inexp naive enough that Apple will require headphones/speakers and microphones to have their own. With the iPhone this wouldn't increase the cost since they can just move the DAC to their crappy headphones (and possibly save some money since they don't need to include a good DAC for their poor headphones). I'm leaning towards—and hoping—they will include a DAC either on or next to the Lightning chipset.
I wouldn't be surprised if Apple is making their own wireless EarPods but I would be surprised if those are the ones included in the box. If anything, I would expect Apple to include Lightning-only EarPods with every iPhone 7 / 7S
This still creates a problem for an absolutely huge number of users though.
I use Apple in-ear headphones (mostly because I have a white iPhone), but even they cost $100 or so. If Apple does this to the next iPhone, even if they provide a lightning version of these headphones, it still leaves me buying a new $100 pair of headphones just in order to be able to use the new phone, whether they are wired or wireless. I have to consider the typical $1000 for a new iPhone, plus another hundred. It could easily be enough to make me hold off the purchase all other things being equal.
There is a large segment of Apple's market (say 40-50%) that use the "in the box" earbud option for headphones, but only a very small group that uses Bluetooth headphones. Everyone else will have to buy new gear. Even if you assume that *most* people use Apple's earbuds and it's more like 80% instead of 40% ... 20% of 200 million devices is still a lot of people that will have to fork over for new headphones. It would be much smarter of Apple to phase in a change like this over several years/models, like put lightning headphones in the box this year, but also leave in the jack, only to phase it out at a later date. I don't see anyway to pull this off in one year all at once without seriously disadvantaging and pissing off a LOT of people.
Someone should go and buy www.audiogate.com or www.earbudgate.com right now if they are still available because it will cause a serious shit-storm. Guaranteed.
"It would be much smarter of Apple to phase in a change like this over several years/models, like put lightning headphones in the box this year, but also leave in the jack, only to phase it out at a later date."
That is definitely one smart way they can do it. The other way is, if iP7 does get rid of the 3.5mm jack, is to include the adaptor with every iPhone 7 / Plus purchase.
I know a lot of you are upset by this rumour, just as many were upset by the removal of the ODD, but I'm quite happy to see this news escalate as I've been waiting for this for years now, just I did with the ODD getting the kibosh.
How does the removal of the headphone socket materially benefit you personally?
who can say without known the roadmap? but if i had to guess, id suggest more room for battery (since 3D touch removed some volume), and easier to make water resistant. both benefit me greatly. and since i already use wireless headphones, id be happy about it.
I tend to agree that the Beats music service was the primary motivation for the acquisition, but I don't think Apple would have paid anywhere near $3 billion if not for the highly profitable line of headphones that came with the deal. In 2013 Beats had over $1 billion in sales, and their margins on headphones is reportedly astronomical. The headphone business alone will likely allow Apple to recoup their acquisition cost within four or five years.
The funny part is that, for now anyways, the hardware part of the deal may prove to be the better money maker for Apple.
the hardware part did a billion in sales before the purchase -- it was a sure bet for that alone.
larrya said: ... I will consider walking again for this, but don't know what real options there are other than Windows. I guess I'll hang onto my 6 forever..
If you want even a borderline useable device that's well designed, Apple is it. The only game in town. If you want integration with your desktop OS, ease of use, reliable designs, and the whole ecosystem, you pretty much have to go Apple. There is no alternative. At least no rational, "good" alternative.
I think both Apple and the press seriously underestimate how many people there are that think Apple has actually become a kind of shitty company, with very well designed but seriously overpriced products ... but then they still buy them because there's nothing else out there. I think that lots of folks actually feel trapped in the Apple ecosystem now, but because they keep buying ... Apple is under the impression that all is well and good.
total nonsense. they aren't overpriced by nature -- theyre the biggest selling CE devices ever, which means people are more than willing to pay the price being asked. and even still they dont even represent a majority of the market share, so there are indeed viable, useable alternatives. ask any fandroid.
How does the removal of the headphone socket materially benefit you personally?
who can say without known the roadmap? but if i had to guess, id suggest more room for battery (since 3D touch removed some volume), and easier to make water resistant. both benefit me greatly. and since i already use wireless headphones, id be happy about it.
amazing, huh?
That's all he was asking form me. I made a definitive statement stating I want it removed, so he wanted to know how I see it will benefit myself (and, surely, others).
Good of point about the new haptic motor removing some of the battery capacity. I did fail to address that specific issue for the iPhone 6s models.
iPod touch and some Android phones are thinner than iPhone yet use the 3.5mm headphone jack. It's unfortunate that these rumors run with the thinness angle when we have no evidence that's the reason for this change. And of course this completely ignores the camera.
As usual you haven't thought this through.
The 3.5mm jack takes up around 184 cubic mm of space inside the phone. That's a lot of room for a space limited device that keeps adding features year after year.
The iPod Touch uses the same camera as the iP6 yet it's 6.1mm, almost a mm thinner. And the Touch doesn't have nearly all of the hardware features the 6 does. The 6S had to go thicker. And are you really suggesting that we compare the quality and design of Android phone to Apple? So yes making the phone thinner is likely a significant reason they want to remove the Jack, as it applies to reducing the overall size without limiting the features and performance of the device.
I'm not talking about the space inside the phone. My point is there are devices thinner than the iPhone that still use the headphone jack. There might be other reasons Apple wants to get rid of the jack but I don't think thinness is one of them. And from that New Yorker article it's clear Jony Ive doesn't love the camera hump. I would be very surprised if the iPhone 7 doesn't have s flush camera.
Comments
This argument is based on the premise that "old" automatically equals "bad." I don't think that's a valid argument. The moving-coil-attached-to-a-diaphram we use to reproduce sound is also a century-old design and it persists because no one has yet come up with a practical, viable, cost-effective alternative. One might also argue that the continuing use of the phone jack is a testament to its value and suitability for its intended task.
That aside, the "last link" between storage and hearing is necessarily analog. Moving the conversion downstream from one device to the next doesn't change that. *IF* there is a tangible benefit to eliminating the 3.5mm jack I'm open to considering it, but my initial reaction is that it would have to be a hell of a good reason to justify eliminating a time-proven, virtually universal, low-cost interface.
This probably wins the "stupid comment of the month" award. Congrats.
Thanks for opening our eyes to Apple's "game-playing", and enlightening us with this earth-shattering solution, which is going back to a flip phone. And you're telling us they're also CHEAPER?! Mind-blowing, especially considering that flip phones basically do one thing, while the iPhone is a meticulously designed pocket super-computer with a gazillion sensors, bleeding edge technology, and an ecosystem of millions of apps.
But let us know how that works out for you, we're all envious of your keen intellect and your awareness of Apple's shenanigans. Also, maybe you should get back on your meds, since you've apparently made the dramatic decision of switching to a flip phone based on a rumor of something that may or may not happen to a phone that Apple will release 9 months from now, even though your iPhone 6 should work perfectly for years to come.
Judging by the reaction so far, and how important the iPhone brand is to Apple as a whole, it would be wise for them to just include the adaptor.
absolute nonsense. get real -- apple is already printing money. they make nearly ALL the profit in mobile (and PCs for that matter). they dont even know what to do with it all. it makes absolutely no sense to risk pissing people off with a major change just to sell adapters.
ah -- so you've sat in on the design meetings? where they told you it was a change just for change's sake, despite Ive explicitly stating they dont do that very thing? hmm. yeah, I'm gonna say you're full of it.
This would be an issue for me for one.....
I use Apple in-ear headphones (mostly because I have a white iPhone), but even they cost $100 or so. If Apple does this to the next iPhone, even if they provide a lightning version of these headphones, it still leaves me buying a new $100 pair of headphones just in order to be able to use the new phone, whether they are wired or wireless. I have to consider the typical $1000 for a new iPhone, plus another hundred. It could easily be enough to make me hold off the purchase all other things being equal.
There is a large segment of Apple's market (say 40-50%) that use the "in the box" earbud option for headphones, but only a very small group that uses Bluetooth headphones. Everyone else will have to buy new gear. Even if you assume that *most* people use Apple's earbuds and it's more like 80% instead of 40% ... 20% of 200 million devices is still a lot of people that will have to fork over for new headphones. It would be much smarter of Apple to phase in a change like this over several years/models, like put lightning headphones in the box this year, but also leave in the jack, only to phase it out at a later date. I don't see anyway to pull this off in one year all at once without seriously disadvantaging and pissing off a LOT of people.
Someone should go and buy www.audiogate.com or www.earbudgate.com right now if they are still available because it will cause a serious shit-storm. Guaranteed.
what the fuck does that have to do with being motivated only by profit margin? nothing. (i dont like the new remote either, but i dont think they designed it this way due to....uh, greed).
The ODD took up about 25% of the internal base of the 13% MBP, was slow, was comparatively and used a lot of power, was loud, and more prone to break compared to more modern options. It also required over 12cm of the side of the notebook be dedicated for the slot/tray.
With the 3.5mm jack assembly (DAC, and other requisite components) we're surely talking a lot less than 25% for the aforementioned 13" MBP's ODD, but it still takes up space, still, and requires engineers to work around its side-edge placement (which can likely only be at the top and bottom). There are obviously other potential issues that wait R&D time and money, and create roadblocks for innovation, like there being an additional open port to deal with when trying to make a device more water resistant.
if the difference is popping in a reversible plug v a cylindrical plug into a port, the cylindrical one is most likely easier, but that "win" has to be so slight that I'd say it would be silly for one to argue that as a defense—note: I haven't seen anyone argue that today.
To me, its removal is obviously going to happen at some point in the next few years. The only thing I haven't been able to determine is where Apple will include a DAC with the Lightning chip which will use some pins, in conjunction of the other 8 pins being added to each device for USB 3.0 speeds, for analog audio in and out, or if the DAC is no inexp naive enough that Apple will require headphones/speakers and microphones to have their own. With the iPhone this wouldn't increase the cost since they can just move the DAC to their crappy headphones (and possibly save some money since they don't need to include a good DAC for their poor headphones). I'm leaning towards—and hoping—they will include a DAC either on or next to the Lightning chipset.
That is definitely one smart way they can do it. The other way is, if iP7 does get rid of the 3.5mm jack, is to include the adaptor with every iPhone 7 / Plus purchase.
amazing, huh?
If they use the lightning port Apple may ask for the 30% so maybe there is more to the story.... (conspiracy alert on that one)
Good of point about the new haptic motor removing some of the battery capacity. I did fail to address that specific issue for the iPhone 6s models.