Apple again rumored to drop 3.5mm headphone jack from 'iPhone 7' for Lightning, Bluetooth

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  • Reply 81 of 204
    mac_128mac_128 Posts: 3,454member
    iPod touch and some Android phones are thinner than iPhone yet use the 3.5mm headphone jack. It's unfortunate that these rumors run with the thinness angle when we have no evidence that's the reason for this change. And of course this completely ignores the camera.
    As usual you haven't thought this through.

    The 3.5mm jack takes up around 184 cubic mm of space inside the phone. That's a lot of room for a space limited device that keeps adding features year after year. 

    The iPod Touch uses the same camera as the iP6 yet it's 6.1mm, almost a mm thinner. And the Touch doesn't have nearly all of the hardware features the 6 does. The 6S had to go thicker. And are you really suggesting that we compare the quality and design of Android phone to Apple? So yes making the phone thinner is likely a significant reason they want to remove the Jack, as it applies to reducing the overall size without limiting the features and performance of the device.
    edited January 2016 freediverx
  • Reply 82 of 204
    cnocbuicnocbui Posts: 3,613member
    cnocbui said:

    I am aware of that.  The significance escapes me.

    The significance is that Samsung has a long history of bragging about specs and gimmicks that turn out to be not very useful in real life, and that their ongoing struggles illustrate the failure of this strategy.

    Putting aside Samsung for the moment, hi-fi audio is an ultra-niche market that has no bearing on the sale of iPhones. The vast majority of consumers cannot tell the difference in audio quality between an iPhone and an audiophile-grade player when using the same headphones and listening to the same music file in a double-blind test.

    Neil Young's $400 Pono hi-def music player loses to Apple's iPhone in blind audio test
    http://appleinsider.com/articles/15/02/02/neil-youngs-400-pono-hi-def-music-player-loses-to-apples-iphone-in-blind-audio-test
    Regarding HiFi and auditory acuity; you are preaching to the converted.

    Samsung isn't bragging about anything, this was contained in a rumour.
  • Reply 83 of 204
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,035member
    slurpy said:
    Sorry, but you're completely full of shit. I've never damaged or broken a SINGLE lightning cable, and I've had some for years. Sure, it's possible to do so if you're an animal who chooses to twist and stretch them, maintain high pressure at extreme angles, etc. But "light usage"? Sorry, but no. Maybe learn how to take care of your products. Oh, and that being said, The Apple Store will GLADLY replace any 1st party cable you buy from them if damaged. My cat chewed one of my lightning cables once, I took it back to the Apple Store, and they swapped it no Qs asked. This is a well known policy, and I fail to see how this supports your "they want to milk you for all you're worth" theory. 

    Overpriced? No, not really, considering they have authentication circuitry inside, and tend to be much better built than 3rd party cables that are a few bucks cheaper. Just switch to Android (like all the others in this thread "threatening" to do so, every single time Apple moves forward) and spare us your sensationalism and dishonest whining. 
    1) I'm likely rough on mine, as I tend to replace them about every year. I believe when they stopped using PVC as an environmental restriction their cables became more brittle and more easily susceptible to dirt. More porous?

    2) To be clear, they will replace any Lightning cable for any iDevice that you have under warranty, without question. If you bought your new iPhone a week ago and go in with a cable that is clearly over a week old—like years old, as I have done—they will replace it. Additionally, they will also replace your Apple in-ear headphones for any damage so long as you have a warranty on an Apple product that can use them, whether that be an iPod, iPhone, iPad, or Mac. I've never had headphones last this long, only because I can take them in to have a ripped in-ear rubber grommet replaced, which they can only do by giving you a brand new pair. Who else offers service like that?

    3) Those "Apple are so overpriced" comments are ridiculous, especially when it's compared to other companies as if they are somehow altruistic in their pricing. The customer shows whether a product is overpriced in a free market by choosing not to buy their products. If they are priced beyond what the market can bear, then they will have no choice but to lower their prices.

    edited January 2016 freediverxnolamacguymuppetry
  • Reply 84 of 204
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,035member
    I know a lot of you are upset by this rumour, just as many were upset by the removal of the ODD, but I'm quite happy to see this news escalate as I've been waiting for this for years now, just I did with the ODD getting the kibosh.
  • Reply 85 of 204
    Asinine? Why? If anything it's forward thinking and progression. It's not like they ever compromise quality to be thin.  this makes sense to me.

    They will conveniently provide an accessory solution that allows our phones plugin support to the existing audio headset format. It's not a huge deal in my opinion. Being Apple fans , investors, hobbyists, and supporters, we should be used to this paradigm by now. 
    This absolutely is a risky move. That jack is used by millions of people every single day. Apple may have very good reasons for eliminating the headphone jack but those reasons better be immediately apparent and ones that people can easily understand and accept. Like making the phone as water resistant as possible, allowing for a bigger battery etc. If people think it's just so Apple could make the phone slightly thinner or sell them a pricey adapter it will be a huge turnoff and could impact iPhone sales.
    I agree with the above people. This is Apple's attempt for getting more money by adding an adapter feature. I already dislike the iPhone because it is an overpriced "phone." I have an iPhone 6 currently and will not be upgrading to the next version because of Apple's game  playing. Making it thinner is just an excuse for these "changes." I will be going back to a basic flip phone. Less garbage to deal with... and cheaper too.  
  • Reply 86 of 204
    freediverxfreediverx Posts: 1,423member
    I already dislike the iPhone because it is an overpriced "phone." I have an iPhone 6 currently and will not be upgrading to the next version because of Apple's game  playing. I will be going back to a basic flip phone. Less garbage to deal with... and cheaper too.  
    This also means you will have no excuse to post rants about Apple's latest features (or rumors), right?
    nolamacguy
  • Reply 87 of 204
    mac_128 said: ... The 3.5mm jack takes up around 184 cubic mm of space inside the phone. That's a lot of room for a space limited device that keeps adding features year after year. ...
    Apple and all the techies keep telling us this, but anyone who has actually opened up an iPhone lately knows that there is empty space inside every model.  Empty space that is probably equal to the volume of the entire headphone jack.  

    Ever since iPhone 5 for instance, there has been a lot of empty space in the top of the phone as things are being moved to the bottom.  I suspect that they are readying the design for the addition of that larger, laterally oriented manual focus camera/lensing system they've patented.  

    Also, read some articles about headphone jacks and phones, and read through all of Apple's patents on this (especially the D jack patent).  You will find that the thinness/thickness of the device is actually the main variable they are trying to solve for, not the internal volume.    
  • Reply 88 of 204
    davidwdavidw Posts: 2,049member
    gwydion said:
    davidw said:
    Rumors has it that AppleMusic will be offering a HiRez format. If most people access their AppleMusic account using an iPhone, what's the point of offering HiRez music if the quality on the music is limited by the internal DAC and the 3.5mm analog headphone jack? 


    If they can output a digital signal, so one can use a better sounding external DAC that is either built into the headphones, on an external headphone amp or connected to a home stereo, then it would make sense why Apple is converting their audio output on the iPhone (and hopefully an iPod) to the lightning connector. And it can't be done using a 3.5mm audio jack. Unless they do what they did on Macs, that is incorporate optical in it.

    http://appleinsider.com/articles/15/12/20/apple-music-reportedly-preparing-hi-res-audio-streaming-for-2016
    What? Are you saying that a headphone jack doesn't have the quality to listen hirez digital music? Can you explain us what people is using right now to listen to this audio? And can you explain how headphones and analog audio work?

    Ps. Optical audio needs a DAC to convert the signal to be played in headphones or speakers
    Lightning already outputs a digital signal.
    No, I'm saying that the DAC in the iPhone may not be the best for converting the HiRes back to analog. One can do better externally. 

    http://mashable.com/2014/09/26/iphone-6-hd-audio/#Ym9hqHj9QuqA

    You know, I never thought that the digital audio signal from the lightning is the same as the one I get from the USB on my laptop. I was thinking is was like that from a CD player.  

    I just got hold of a 5th generation Touch to use to stream music to my headphone amp from my laptop iTunes. I was just thinking using the 3.5mm audio jack on the Touch as the music is in AIFF anyways. I'm going to have to explore using a lightning to USB cable and then an USB A to USB B adapter to see if my headphone amp will receive the proper signal. I don't quite understand the difference between the digital audio I get out of the USB vs the digital audio from an optical or coax connector. All I know is that my headphone amp only has a USB connector and a USB DAC and don't have an optical or coax digital input like that found on a CD player. My guess is that a CD player DAC is better than what's in the headphone amp and therefore it's better to use the line analog out and analog in. But the DAC in the headphone amp is better than what's on a computer sound card.   
  • Reply 89 of 204
    tzeshantzeshan Posts: 2,351member
    This is engineering not innovation.  This is the main reason why the stock is dropping last year. 
  • Reply 90 of 204
    jax44jax44 Posts: 79member
    iPhone is Apple's cash cow. If they're removing the headphone jack it's not to make the phone a few mm thinner. Plus the iPod touch is thinner than the iPhone but still uses the 3.5mm headphone jack. IF Apple is doing this they better include decent wireless headphones in the box along with an adapter. Taking away the headphone jack and then telling people they can get an adapter for $30 would be horrible for sales. The fact that Apple Pencil comes with a charging adapter even though you can charge it from any lightening port makes me hopeful.
    I'm starting to believe they are actually going to do this but the question I have is ... which headset do they throw in the box?  If they put wireless in there will always be people that aren't happy and want a wired alternative.  If they put lightning headphones in, there will always be people who want the wireless.  

    I'm guessing, like you, that they will put new wireless earbuds in the box and tout the futuristic aspects of that etc., but that still going to leave a lot of angry people who now have to pay hundreds of dollars for wired headphones.  They would be wise to announce new Beats lightning-based headphones on the same day, and have the capability to make that happen, but still ... the last pair of Beats I bought was $500.  

    People are NOT going to like this, whichever way Apple goes. 

    I know that personally I won't wear Bluetooth earbuds just on aesthetic grounds alone.  They look ridiculous with that stupid wire hanging under your chin.  And I'm not the type to walk around with a giant set of cans on my head either.  Neither of these are subtle, attractive or vey "Apple-like" options IMO.   
    How about wireless that also has lightning at each end. Plugged in or Bluetooth, either way.
  • Reply 91 of 204
    mac_128 said:
    I'm starting to believe they are actually going to do this but the question I have is ... which headset do they throw in the box?  If they put wireless in there will always be people that aren't happy and want a wired alternative.  If they put lightning headphones in, there will always be people who want the wireless.  

    I'm guessing, like you, that they will put new wireless earbuds in the box and tout the futuristic aspects of that etc., but that still going to leave a lot of angry people who now have to pay hundreds of dollars for wired headphones.  They would be wise to announce new Beats lightning-based headphones on the same day, and have the capability to make that happen, but still ... the last pair of Beats I bought was $500.  

    People are NOT going to like this, whichever way Apple goes. 

    I know that personally I won't wear Bluetooth earbuds just on aesthetic grounds alone.  They look ridiculous with that stupid wire hanging under your chin.  And I'm not the type to walk around with a giant set of cans on my head either.  Neither of these are subtle, attractive or vey "Apple-like" options IMO.   

    No, Apple will NOT put wireless headphones in the box. Nor will they out in an adapter for those who do NOT use wired headphones at all. They will do what they always do, and put a Lightning equipped set of headphones in the box. The only time I use wired headphones, is on ocassion when I plug in the pair Apple gave me because my BT headphones are charging and I don't want to use the speaker. 

    And while this is mostly annectdotal, whenever I walk into a crowded public space and survey the people wearing earphones, they are almost always over 50% Apple's iconic white earbuds they got for free with their iPhone or iPod Touch purchase. I'm sure Apple knows this too. Another large majority are Beats headphones, and an increasing number of wireless headphones. For the majority of Apple's customers this is going to have minimal impact.

    where this is going to be a problem is for Apple customers who also use their Apple headphones with their iPads, and Macs. So legacy customers of those devices will have to buy adapters for the new headphones. Again not a problem generally for the customer who already likely has several pair of free Apple earbuds.
    Nothing personal, but you disagreed with me here without providing a rationale as to why, and nothing you've said actually answers the question I posed or explains away any of the possible problems I talked about.  Most of what you say here actually supports my musings rather than argues against them, despite the entire tone of your statement being aggressively opposed to my point of view.  
  • Reply 92 of 204
    hpaulhhpaulh Posts: 16member
    What if Apple provides a 2" extender adapter (free with iPhone or $20, I don't care) for 1/4"/mini plug to Lightning with all new iPhone 7s, and at the same time increases the audio playback to Hi-Fi audiophile specks? Would you likely upgrade from any iPhone version you're currently using? I'd sell my birthright for a fast track to Hi-end audiophile playback on my desk-bound headphone amps, and my Bowers & Wilkins, Etymotic, and various other headphones. Why not dream a little and let progress roll on!
  • Reply 93 of 204
    freediverxfreediverx Posts: 1,423member
    tzeshan said:
    This is engineering not innovation.  This is the main reason why the stock is dropping last year. 
    The stock has dropped because of 1) a Chinese economy in rapid decline, and 2) the usual investor cluelessness combined with stock manipulation by Wall Street.
    edited January 2016 nolamacguymuppetry
  • Reply 94 of 204
    cnocbuicnocbui Posts: 3,613member
    Soli said:
    I know a lot of you are upset by this rumour, just as many were upset by the removal of the ODD, but I'm quite happy to see this news escalate as I've been waiting for this for years now, just I did with the ODD getting the kibosh.
    How does the removal of the headphone socket materially benefit you personally?
  • Reply 95 of 204
    freediverxfreediverx Posts: 1,423member
    jax44 said:  
    How about wireless that also has lightning at each end. Plugged in or Bluetooth, either way.
    Bluetooth headphones already have this capability. Regardless, Apple is not going to throw in a BT headset with every iPhone. Those things sell for $200+.
  • Reply 96 of 204
    gwydion said:
    So Apple released a MacBook with no ports other than usb, and you guys are now surprised that this might be happening? In the future I see iPhones only coming with usb c.... 

    if we let you guys tell it, the iPhone will still use a headphone jack 100 years from now.
    And why is bad using a headphone jack?
    Because it was designed in 1878 (137 years ago!), and is pretty much the last analogue connector that exists in a world that has long since gone digital.  

    Considering the rapid pace of technology, it's a miracle that it still exists really.  
    nolamacguy
  • Reply 97 of 204
    davidwdavidw Posts: 2,049member
    davidw said:
    I tend to agree that the Beats music service was the primary motivation for the acquisition, but I don't think Apple would have paid anywhere near $3 billion if not for the highly profitable line of headphones that came with the deal. In 2013 Beats had over $1 billion in sales, and their margins on headphones is reportedly astronomical. The headphone business alone will likely allow Apple to recoup their acquisition cost within four or five years.
    The question is, would Apple have just purchased the Beat music portion if they could have? Apple has always let 3rd party make the better hardware for their iDevices. The last thing I remember Apple getting into that competed with the better offerings of 3rd party hardware for iDevices was their $399 Apple iPod Stereo. And that didn't last for long. I pretty sure Apple makes a decent profit just on licensing fees for 3rd party hardware for iDevices. Maybe not in the billions but very high margin. And this is not going to go over too well with competing  headphone makers, now that may have to pay Apple a licensing fee to use the lightning connector on their headphones, with Apple now owning Beats.

    The funny part is that, for now anyways, the hardware part of the deal may prove to be the better money maker for Apple.
    edited January 2016
  • Reply 98 of 204
    canukstormcanukstorm Posts: 2,700member
    xbit said:
    I believe that Apple's longterm goal is to make an iPhone with zero ports, even ditching the Lightning connector eventually. Wireless charging, synching and audio only.

    No ports means fewer damaged iPhones and a sleeker, thinner design.
    Of course it is.  I wouldn't expect anything less.
  • Reply 99 of 204
    canukstormcanukstorm Posts: 2,700member
    thedba said:
    This is about pushing technology forward. Anyone that is ok with the 3.5mm jack should be ok with buying a 6s. There is definitely some huge financial gains to be made as was pointed out earlier. The multiple "thin" comments are not even close to accurate. It has nothing to do with that. I am ok standing by a company that pushes technology forward.
    I agree with you. This not different than when Apple removed the floppy and then the CD/DVD drive. People were all up in arms about, but today it's a non issue. 
    It's the future and like someone else said, people will probably use what is included in the box. For the other < 1% there will be adapters. 

    BTW, this is just some unsbstantiated rumor. No need to tear into each other for this. 
    To some extent it is different.  Replacing a universal standard used by tens, if not hundreds, of millions of people with a proprietary one is a very risky move.
  • Reply 100 of 204
    canukstormcanukstorm Posts: 2,700member

    This absolutely is a risky move. That jack is used by millions of people every single day. Apple may have very good reasons for eliminating the headphone jack but those reasons better be immediately apparent and ones that people can easily understand and accept. Like making the phone as water resistant as possible, allowing for a bigger battery etc. If people think it's just so Apple could make the phone slightly thinner or sell them a pricey adapter it will be a huge turnoff and could impact iPhone sales.
    I actually don't think it's that risky, especially if the iPhone 7 ships with wireless earpods.  :|
    I wouldn't be surprised if Apple is making their own wireless EarPods but I would be surprised if those are the ones included in the box. If anything, I would expect Apple to include Lightning-only EarPods with every iPhone 7 / 7S
    freediverx
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