Re: "Our job is to protect our customers, and our customers have incredibly detailed information on their phones. There's probably more information about you on your phone than there is in your house," Cook said in Friday's ABC interview, noting many people keep contact information, health records, private communications and more on their smartphones. "So it's not just about privacy, but it's also about public safety."
Is total privacy a human right? Is total privacy possible? Is total privacy natural? I'd say "no" to all three. Anyone living in a small community has little to no privacy, apart from what they do behind closed doors. Once they participate in a communal event (and what is the cellular network and the internet if not communal?) then an expectation of total guaranteed privacy is fanciful.
Re: "There's probably more information about you on your phone than there is in your house" Well, perhaps THAT is the problem, People should stop holding so much key information on their phones that are made to operate across a public utility like the cellular network and the internet. If mobile phones disappeared tomorrow people would adjust and adapt and continue to function quite well.
Re: "Re: "Our job is to protect our customers" Is it? Apple's job is to make sure that their mobile phones can connect to industry standard telecommunications protocols, otherwise no one would buy their phones. And that's about it as far as Apple's 'job' is concerned. If people want to hold all their banking info and other info they want to keep from the eyes of others on their phones that use the public utilities then that is their concern, not Apple's. You can have all the total privacy you want if you don't use a phone of any sort or send eMails across public networks.
If I manufacture a paper notepad and people write private information on it, it is not my job to guarantee that no one else can see that paper notebook, especially if it is being sent across some communal network to someone else.
Even if known 'subversives' are sending letters through the post, government authorities can request judicial authority to open that mail, in the interests of general public safety.
And of course, who decides who is a subversive? The great and the good within the judicial system. And can we guarantee that those people really ARE great and good? There will never be a unanimous agreement over who is deserving of being 'great and good', particularly relative to others.
Keeping information pursuant to community safety secret, or not a secret, is the job of the Community's security agents, not Apple's. You can have total guaranteed privacy if you live alone on an island...but "no man is an island".
Some people seem to be combining privacy of communications between people using public infrastructure, where I think the argument has merit, with privacy of information stored locally on a person's device. To my mind, the information on the device should be treated as an extension of mind, sacrosanct from forced search or inspection. I keep notes, internal thoughts, on my iPhone that I have not shared with anyone. Writing helps me to collect and express my thoughts on a particular subject, and until I've fully formed a view, I reserve the right to keep those thoughts private, just as though they were only inside my head. I keep passwords in a spreadsheet, knowing that the full-device encryption keeps them safe. This too is an extension of my imperfect memory, and I should have the right to privacy for that information, unless you think it'll be okay for law enforcement to scan and read information directly out of our heads in the future (techniques already exist, by the way).
As to information you transmit out into the world, on this my view more closely matches government's. If you harbor ill intents that you don't communicate to others, then the threat you represent to the world is somewhat contained, and just as though you kept those intents only within your own mind, the world should just have to take a risk that you won't be able to do significant damage. The value of maintaining that barrier to future brain scanning, for which forced search of our personal electronic devices can be seen today as a proxy, outweighs the risk of what an individual can do against an entire society.
It's when you begin to communicate those ill intends to others, recruiting them into your plans, that you become a greater danger to all of society. This is the reason society accepts wire-tapping, for example, and other forms of surveillance like stake-outs and trackimg of a suspected evil-doer's actions in public spaces, along with the trail of associates they form. But this can all be gathered externally to any search of their mind, or, by proxy, their personal electronic devices that act as a proxy for their internal thoughts and memories. So on this I agree and I think it would not be out of bounds for government to forbid unbreakable end-to-end communications between devices. That would give government access to the information and communications that create the most danger (collaboration across public space among those who would seek to conspire to do great harm to society) without exposing each individual's sacrosanct inner thoughts and intents.
More madness. Our government exists to protect our constitutionally guaranteed rights. We do not exist to serve our government. I find your fealty to the state more disturbing than the extremely remote possibility of a foreign invasion, terrorist attack or mass murder. The state constantly relies on and inflates those threats to gain power over the population of scared sheep.
Mr. Cook is being a bit misleading if not downright dishonest here. The implications for Apple stretch beyond the United States. If the FBI prevails what's to stop China or another government from asking for something similar. That's what Mr. Cook is really worried about. Mr. Cook is gambling on the fact that his customer's addictions to their cellphone will override common sense. His flag waving about Privacy rings hollow. He apparently wasn't worried about it when Apple loaded U2's last album onto my iTunes account without my permission. Apple's next tact will be to get this issue out of the courts. There has already been suggestions that Congress should debate the issue. This the same Congressional group that is one of the worst in history. That would be fine for Apple has they've lobbied hard at Congress to around 5 million dollars. I'm sure they have support there. If you are going to put your whole life in your cellphone then your are asking for trouble. I don't think Apple or any other Tech company should be the guarantor of privacy. That should be my choice on how i want to do that. Nor do I want the FBI running roughshod over the country either. I have to wonder why this wasn't worked out behind closed doors. A mass murder was committed let's not forget. Both sides by exploiting this are now potentially putting people at risk.
Yours is such a rambling piece of illogic, I don't know how to begin to refute it.
Apple is simply taking a stand on the issue. To accuse it of being a guarantor of privacy is ludicrous.
Those who are fearful of a gunless society, just look at chrime and homicide rates in developed countries with strict gun regulation. USA have 10 times more gun related homicides per capita than Germany...
Funny how you have to qualify your argument using "gun related homicides" instead of comparing the rates of all violent crimes. That's called cherry picking, not to mention mixing legitimate shootings (like self defense) in with crimes.
The current homicide rate per capita in USA is 5 times higher than Germany...
You are obviously as educated as the rest of the gun lobby...
According to The United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime's (UNODC) site the Global Study on Homicide:
Intentional homicide rates: Germany 0.8/100K population; USA 3.8/100K population.
According to those numbers, the US ranks 121 out of 218 countries, Germany ranks 203. The US ranks lower than known highly-violent nations such as Latvia, Estonia, and Lithuania. The US homicide rate has dropped in half since the early '90s, oddly enough coincident with the widespread adoption of shall-issue carry laws in (now) 37 states. And if you subtract the "contribution" of a small segment of the overall US population, young urban hispanic and black males, the US homicide rate turns out to be almost identical to Canada's rate, about 1.4/100K.
It's something other than guns that's the gating items.
While I applaud Apple's stance here, they should keep this under the radar. Discussion of future of Apple security features will only bring more scrutiny from the government. Congress is already set to hold hearings and draft legislation is in the works to force companies to provide the government 'keys' to their devices. Not a smart PR move in my opinion...
Some people seem to be combining privacy of communications between people using public infrastructure, where I think the argument has merit, with privacy of information stored locally on a person's device. To my mind, the information on the device should be treated as an extension of mind, sacrosanct from forced search or inspection. I keep notes, internal thoughts, on my iPhone that I have not shared with anyone. Writing helps me to collect and express my thoughts on a particular subject, and until I've fully formed a view, I reserve the right to keep those thoughts private, just as though they were only inside my head. I keep passwords in a spreadsheet, knowing that the full-device encryption keeps them safe. This too is an extension of my imperfect memory, and I should have the right to privacy for that information, unless you think it'll be okay for law enforcement to scan and read information directly out of our heads in the future (techniques already exist, by the way).
As to information you transmit out into the world, on this my view more closely matches government's. If you harbor ill intents that you don't communicate to others, then the threat you represent to the world is somewhat contained, and just as though you kept those intents only within your own mind, the world should just have to take a risk that you won't be able to do significant damage. The value of maintaining that barrier to future brain scanning, for which forced search of our personal electronic devices can be seen today as a proxy, outweighs the risk of what an individual can do against an entire society.
It's when you begin to communicate those ill intends to others, recruiting them into your plans, that you become a greater danger to all of society. This is the reason society accepts wire-tapping, for example, and other forms of surveillance like stake-outs and trackimg of a suspected evil-doer's actions in public spaces, along with the trail of associates they form. But this can all be gathered externally to any search of their mind, or, by proxy, their personal electronic devices that act as a proxy for their internal thoughts and memories. So on this I agree and I think it would not be out of bounds for government to forbid unbreakable end-to-end communications between devices. That would give government access to the information and communications that create the most danger (collaboration across public space among those who would seek to conspire to do great harm to society) without exposing each individual's sacrosanct inner thoughts and intents.
More madness. Our government exists to protect our constitutionally guaranteed rights. We do not exist to serve our government. I find your fealty to the state more disturbing than the extremely remote possibility of a foreign invasion, terrorist attack or mass murder. The state constantly relies on and inflates those threats to gain power over the population of scared sheep.
Excellent retort. More should be made of the notion that Government serves the people, not the other way around. The "fear mongering" of both political parties would have you believe(sadly, many, many apparently do...) that ISIS and its fleet of Toyota pickups is imminently coming down "Mainstreet USA".
It would be interesting to talk to the families of people who have been killed by terrorist acts and ask them, would you feel better if your loved one had been killed by someone robbing them for their money? Would you feel better if it had been an auto accident? Is there a different way that they could have been killed that would make you feel better? Is the way really have anything to with how much it hurts? My point is 99% of the people who die from violence is not from the actions of a terrorist. We need to stop losing our liberty in the name if stopping terrorism.
Mr. Cook is being a bit misleading if not downright dishonest here. The implications for Apple stretch beyond the United States. If the FBI prevails what's to stop China or another government from asking for something similar. That's what Mr. Cook is really worried about. Mr. Cook is gambling on the fact that his customer's addictions to their cellphone will override common sense. His flag waving about Privacy rings hollow. He apparently wasn't worried about it when Apple loaded U2's last album onto my iTunes account without my permission. Apple's next tact will be to get this issue out of the courts. There has already been suggestions that Congress should debate the issue. This the same Congressional group that is one of the worst in history. That would be fine for Apple has they've lobbied hard at Congress to around 5 million dollars. I'm sure they have support there. If you are going to put your whole life in your cellphone then your are asking for trouble. I don't think Apple or any other Tech company should be the guarantor of privacy. That should be my choice on how i want to do that. Nor do I want the FBI running roughshod over the country either. I have to wonder why this wasn't worked out behind closed doors. A mass murder was committed let's not forget. Both sides by exploiting this are now potentially putting people at risk.
Yours is such a rambling piece of illogic, I don't know how to begin to refute it.
Apple is simply taking a stand on the issue. To accuse it of being a guarantor of privacy is ludicrous.
Locking your iPhone is your choice. Open it to anyone who has it...your choice.
Apple needs to fix these that few security holes. The one the FBI for example wants to use where your iPhone can get and install OTA on it's own with a valid iOS update and security certificate. I say make the Passcode mandatory before any update can happen!!!
Did any one notice when the media asked the government about the fact they changed the icloud password which render any attempt to get access to the date, they refuse to talk about and said apple was saying that to divert attention away from them. They also saying this is just a pure marketing scheme on Apple's part nothings more. It about them selling more iphone than anything else. They basically said Apple has no interest in protection people rights beyond their ability to sell more phones.
The government obviously has not been paying attention to the recent polls and the fact Trump is winning all because people are extremely pissed off at the government.
Please don't be naive. The government is NOT stupid. They know exactly what they're doing by making the kind of idiotic statements that some beer-swilling armchair quarterback blue collar minimum wage citizen would make. They are waging psychological warfare in the hopes of winning over exactly that kind of American. The 51% or so that are so retarded its a miracle they make it through the day.
Actually most people in government are pretty stupid, otherwise they would not be in government that could make far more money in the private sector, and very few are there because they believe in service to the community, but that is a whole other story.
But you are correct they are not stupid in this regard, they are hoping most people are stupid and this is what the relied on for the last 50 yrs, but I am actually encourage these days people woke up and realize they have been lied to all this time. And I honestly believe the talking head on the team represents the government believes the FBI did nothing wrong and their screw up make this whole situation worse.
According to The United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime's (UNODC) site the Global Study on Homicide:
Intentional homicide rates: Germany 0.8/100K population; USA 3.8/100K population.
According to those numbers, the US ranks 121 out of 218 countries, Germany ranks 203. The US ranks lower than known highly-violent nations such as Latvia, Estonia, and Lithuania. The US homicide rate has dropped in half since the early '90s, oddly enough coincident with the widespread adoption of shall-issue carry laws in (now) 37 states. And if you subtract the "contribution" of a small segment of the overall US population, young urban hispanic and black males, the US homicide rate turns out to be almost identical to Canada's rate, about 1.4/100K.
It's something other than guns that's the gating items.
There's another study that makes a correlation between leaded gasoline and crime; correlation isn't necessarily causation.
At any rate, I find it interesting that the CDC is banned by Congress from funding studies on gun violence. Perhaps such studies would establish the connection between mental illness / mental incompetence and gun violence; almost certainly a strong correlation to mass killings, especially by young males.
I worry more about violence from an off kilter gun owner than any terrorist, and in most cases, concealed carry isn't going to make any difference.
While I applaud Apple's stance here, they should keep this under the radar. Discussion of future of Apple security features will only bring more scrutiny from the government. Congress is already set to hold hearings and draft legislation is in the works to force companies to provide the government 'keys' to their devices. Not a smart PR move in my opinion...
Just let them vote against our privacy in an election year....not gonna happen this year.
While I applaud Apple's stance here, they should keep this under the radar. Discussion of future of Apple security features will only bring more scrutiny from the government. Congress is already set to hold hearings and draft legislation is in the works to force companies to provide the government 'keys' to their devices. Not a smart PR move in my opinion...
Just let them vote against our privacy in an election year....not gonna happen this year.
Based on just the media, and responses in various tech sites, I'd say that the momentum has shifted in Apple's favor excepting the set of diehard American Authoritarians that we all run into now and then.
The FBI is just using this particular iPhone to grand stand the issue. Apples encryption has been in the news with law enforcement personalities complaining about it. Now they take this particular phone, not all the others they want help with mind you, and use it as a wedge issue as a giant PR stunt against Apple.
The FBI's argument is very disingenuous at best and downright dishonest at worst. Especially considering the evidence...personal phones, tablets, computer get destroyed and this phone is left behind in perfect shape.
While I applaud Apple's stance here, they should keep this under the radar. Discussion of future of Apple security features will only bring more scrutiny from the government. Congress is already set to hold hearings and draft legislation is in the works to force companies to provide the government 'keys' to their devices. Not a smart PR move in my opinion...
Just let them vote against our privacy in an election year....not gonna happen this year.
How does it make a difference to us. If they did and we voted them out the ones we voted in to replace them would do the same. I know it's cynical.
If you are going to put your whole life in your cellphone then your are asking for trouble.
I know right? Like all those women getting raped - just asking for trouble! I mean, how dare we ask to be able to keep secrets! If you have secrets, you are a terrorist.
According to The United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime's (UNODC) site the Global Study on Homicide:
Intentional homicide rates: Germany 0.8/100K population; USA 3.8/100K population.
According to those numbers, the US ranks 121 out of 218 countries, Germany ranks 203. The US ranks lower than known highly-violent nations such as Latvia, Estonia, and Lithuania. The US homicide rate has dropped in half since the early '90s, oddly enough coincident with the widespread adoption of shall-issue carry laws in (now) 37 states. And if you subtract the "contribution" of a small segment of the overall US population, young urban hispanic and black males, the US homicide rate turns out to be almost identical to Canada's rate, about 1.4/100K.
It's something other than guns that's the gating items.
There's another study that makes a correlation between leaded gasoline and crime; correlation isn't necessarily causation.
At any rate, I find it interesting that the CDC is banned by Congress from funding studies on gun violence. Perhaps such studies would establish the connection between mental illness / mental incompetence and gun violence; almost certainly a strong correlation to mass killings, especially by young males.
I worry more about violence from an off kilter gun owner than any terrorist, and in most cases, concealed carry isn't going to make any difference.
Comments
Apple is simply taking a stand on the issue. To accuse it of being a guarantor of privacy is ludicrous.
Funny how you have to qualify your argument using "gun related homicides" instead of comparing the rates of all violent crimes. That's called cherry picking, not to mention mixing legitimate shootings (like self defense) in with crimes.
Intentional homicide rates: Germany 0.8/100K population; USA 3.8/100K population.
According to those numbers, the US ranks 121 out of 218 countries, Germany ranks 203. The US ranks lower than known highly-violent nations such as Latvia, Estonia, and Lithuania. The US homicide rate has dropped in half since the early '90s, oddly enough coincident with the widespread adoption of shall-issue carry laws in (now) 37 states. And if you subtract the "contribution" of a small segment of the overall US population, young urban hispanic and black males, the US homicide rate turns out to be almost identical to Canada's rate, about 1.4/100K.
It's something other than guns that's the gating items.
Excellent retort. More should be made of the notion that Government serves the people, not the other way around. The "fear mongering" of both political parties would have you believe(sadly, many, many apparently do...) that ISIS and its fleet of Toyota pickups is imminently coming down "Mainstreet USA".
Locking your iPhone is your choice. Open it to anyone who has it...your choice.
Like comparing AA Minor League baseball to the Majors.
Actually most people in government are pretty stupid, otherwise they would not be in government that could make far more money in the private sector, and very few are there because they believe in service to the community, but that is a whole other story.
But you are correct they are not stupid in this regard, they are hoping most people are stupid and this is what the relied on for the last 50 yrs, but I am actually encourage these days people woke up and realize they have been lied to all this time. And I honestly believe the talking head on the team represents the government believes the FBI did nothing wrong and their screw up make this whole situation worse.
Nope, they're asking for 17 phones under the same law. Anyone who can't see this is the tip of the iceberg is an idiot.
http://mashable.com/2016/02/23/fbi-apple-requests/#tfViEerQMEqO
At any rate, I find it interesting that the CDC is banned by Congress from funding studies on gun violence. Perhaps such studies would establish the connection between mental illness / mental incompetence and gun violence; almost certainly a strong correlation to mass killings, especially by young males.
I worry more about violence from an off kilter gun owner than any terrorist, and in most cases, concealed carry isn't going to make any difference.
The FBI's argument is very disingenuous at best and downright dishonest at worst. Especially considering the evidence...personal phones, tablets, computer get destroyed and this phone is left behind in perfect shape.
I mean, how dare we ask to be able to keep secrets! If you have secrets, you are a terrorist.
/s for those that were wondering.