Apple has 'great desktops' on Mac roadmap, CEO Tim Cook says

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  • Reply 21 of 217
    stimpy said:
    Robin nailed it above. Buying a "new" iMac 21.5 gets you 2015 hardware, and slow notebook hard drive. For Fusion offerings a SSD "hybrid" HD where there is less than 1/5th the SSD portion of the faster 2013 models. You have to buy the middle model and upgrade it for another $100 to get the speed of a base 2013 model. Its frustrating to help my customers with these options. All this while my PC compresses video 3.5 times faster than an iMac and cost $900.
    Compression speed is adjustable. You compress faster, get a larger file, compress slower, you get a smaller file. Compress more and more, all the darker areas in your video will shift to pitch black and you'll screw up the subtle tonal balance of your video. Mastering H.264 settings is not for mere mortals.
    edited December 2016 watto_cobradysamoria
  • Reply 22 of 217
    metrixmetrix Posts: 249member
    As a long long time Apple fan and supporter I think it's time they get their a** in gear. You know Microsoft is making nothing on their Surface computers because of such low volume. I would like to see Apple spend more time with performance and a little less on design, and it's okay to let iPhone support some Pro sales.
    elijahg1983dysamoriafrankeed
  • Reply 23 of 217
    Those who keep on blaming Intel for Apple's excuses, I have two words for you: Surface Studio
    That desktop is still based on Intel's Skylake CPU which is a year old and the Nvidia GPU is also based on at least one-year old technology. Other than the 128GB SSD and hi-res touch-screen, nothing else is latest and greatest.
    StrangeDaysmacplusplusbaconstangwatto_cobrapscooter63mobiusbrucemcpalominepatchythepirateroundaboutnow
  • Reply 24 of 217
    scottw2 said:
    Whereas laptop specs are confined by form factor restrictions, desktops are defined by high performance processors, large screens, ample storage and "a greater variety of I/O."

    Show us you meant what you said, Tim. The iMac is a bunch of mobile components glued behind a big screen. The Mac Mini is un-upgradable box of mobile hardware. The "trashcan" Mac Pro looks neat until you need to connect external accessories typically required of their workloads. You need breakout boxes, cables, external everything. In a senses, the dongle mess that is the 2016 MBP starts with the trashcan.

    Give Jony a challenge to design computers that: (1) upgradable, (2) has wide selection of replacement parts, (3) has ports that people actually need, (4) have regular updates and (5) look good, in that order. He only cares about thinness these days.


    How do you figure Ive only cares about thinness (ignoring for the moment that there's an entire team who designs these things)? Especially since he's gone on record many times to state that design is not just about how a thing looks, but how it works...
    I'm constantly amazed at how one person is supposedly responsible for the entire Mac lineup. People really believe that Mac hardware is decided by Jony Ive and Jony Ive alone?!?
    StrangeDaysbaconstang1983
  • Reply 25 of 217
    elijahg said:
    As others have said, it does seem Apple's only able to concentrate on one product these days. Back in the mid 90's they had heaps of products which was really their downfall - though at least they did frequently bring out new models - and they do seem to be going that way again lately (watch straps, anyone?). They should have discontinued the 2015 MBP and replaced it with the touch bar model at the same (bumped) price the 2015 MBP is at.

    As far as the Mac is concerned generally, this "great pipeline" that Cook keeps going on about is either incredibly long, or needs Dyno-Rod. Over and over he has said "we have some great products in the pipeline", then he eventually comes out with the touch bar MBP. That's not particularly "great", Tim. Ive's OCD over thinness is partly the reason, you can't fit powerful CPUs and GPUs into a thin machine. I don't care about thin, I want the computer to be an actual computer I can install drives in, upgrade RAM etc, not a fashion icon.
    When buying a portable notebook, I definitely want thinness -- thinner is less mass which is less weight. That makes carrying it much more convenient. I want a fast SSD, the faster the better. I certainly don't want removable drives. 

    The MBP with TouchBar and TouchID is a great machine. The reviews and user reviews have been very positive. I love my 2014 rMBP because it still flies, but I'd love to have one of these. So why do you think it's not a great portable?
    Thinness which results in you carrying a bagful of dongles wherever you go? Whose weight adds up. The 2015 MBP isn't heavy, and it has a full compliment of useful ports. Obviously I meant removable drives on a desktop, but still, they could have kept the SD card reader in the MBP.

    See the above, + battery life and too expensive.
    baconstang1983dysamoriafrankeed
  • Reply 26 of 217
    elijahg said:
    macxpress said:
    That's been a pretty long road map for the Mac Pro...
    Intel's roadmap has been quite long as well...which doesn't help things. I still want to see Apple go back to a mini tower for the Mac Pro. It doesn't have to be as large as the old Mac Pro, but maybe the size of the PowerMac G4. Put a couple of PCIe slots, couple of flash storage slots, etc. It would also be cool I think to keep it the same black aluminum.
    An honest question:

    Because they make both the hardware and the software, couldn't Apple mitigate the long Intel roadmap by including A10X chips to offload some of the work from the Intel and 3rd-party graphic chips?

    They could, but they'd do better upgrading other things in the Macs such as the ridiculous spinning HDD they still use in the iMacs, or adding an extra couple of x86 cores. but that'd require better cooling, and the thin design won't allow that so thats a no. The other hardware in the computers (GPU for example) is progressing much faster than Intel CPUs.

    OK so for months people have been complaining about how tight-lipped Apple was, that they wouldn't comment on their desktop plans and worries they would be shutting it down. Now, Apple comments on this, and what do people do? Complain. 

    Very perplexing. 
    They've not really commented on their plans other than to say "we don't consider the Mac dead, yet"
    You don't expect Apple to tell *you* their detailed product plans, do you? He said it's not dead nor do they plan to kill it. I think that's more specific than Apple has ever been about future products.
    rich gregorybaconstangwatto_cobra1983pscooter63brucemcai46
  • Reply 27 of 217
    elijahg said:
    elijahg said:
    As others have said, it does seem Apple's only able to concentrate on one product these days. Back in the mid 90's they had heaps of products which was really their downfall - though at least they did frequently bring out new models - and they do seem to be going that way again lately (watch straps, anyone?). They should have discontinued the 2015 MBP and replaced it with the touch bar model at the same (bumped) price the 2015 MBP is at.

    As far as the Mac is concerned generally, this "great pipeline" that Cook keeps going on about is either incredibly long, or needs Dyno-Rod. Over and over he has said "we have some great products in the pipeline", then he eventually comes out with the touch bar MBP. That's not particularly "great", Tim. Ive's OCD over thinness is partly the reason, you can't fit powerful CPUs and GPUs into a thin machine. I don't care about thin, I want the computer to be an actual computer I can install drives in, upgrade RAM etc, not a fashion icon.
    When buying a portable notebook, I definitely want thinness -- thinner is less mass which is less weight. That makes carrying it much more convenient. I want a fast SSD, the faster the better. I certainly don't want removable drives. 

    The MBP with TouchBar and TouchID is a great machine. The reviews and user reviews have been very positive. I love my 2014 rMBP because it still flies, but I'd love to have one of these. So why do you think it's not a great portable?
    Thinness which results in you carrying a bagful of dongles wherever you go? Whose weight adds up. The 2015 MBP isn't heavy, and it has a full compliment of useful ports. Obviously I meant removable drives on a desktop, but still, they could have kept the SD card reader in the MBP.

    See the above, + battery life and too expensive.
    A bag full of dongles? Seriously?
    StrangeDaysrevenant1983patchythepirate
  • Reply 28 of 217
    elijahg said:
    macxpress said:
    That's been a pretty long road map for the Mac Pro...
    Intel's roadmap has been quite long as well...which doesn't help things. I still want to see Apple go back to a mini tower for the Mac Pro. It doesn't have to be as large as the old Mac Pro, but maybe the size of the PowerMac G4. Put a couple of PCIe slots, couple of flash storage slots, etc. It would also be cool I think to keep it the same black aluminum.
    An honest question:

    Because they make both the hardware and the software, couldn't Apple mitigate the long Intel roadmap by including A10X chips to offload some of the work from the Intel and 3rd-party graphic chips?

    They could, but they'd do better upgrading other things in the Macs such as the ridiculous spinning HDD they still use in the iMacs, or adding an extra couple of x86 cores. but that'd require better cooling, and the thin design won't allow that so thats a no. The other hardware in the computers (GPU for example) is progressing much faster than Intel CPUs.

    OK so for months people have been complaining about how tight-lipped Apple was, that they wouldn't comment on their desktop plans and worries they would be shutting it down. Now, Apple comments on this, and what do people do? Complain. 

    Very perplexing. 
    They've not really commented on their plans other than to say "we don't consider the Mac dead, yet"
    You don't expect Apple to tell *you* their detailed product plans, do you? He said it's not dead nor do they plan to kill it. I think that's more specific than Apple has ever been about future products.
    There's quite a difference between detailed and "we have some products on the way". Which is all they've said, and pretty sure everyone knew they have some Macs on the way. Eventually. Though maybe not for the MP.
    dysamoriafrankeed
  • Reply 29 of 217
    What latest Intel processors are currently available for the iMac? 
  • Reply 30 of 217
    Those who keep on blaming Intel for Apple's excuses, I have two words for you: Surface Studio
    The surface studio has a 2014 mobile GPU, the same CPU as the 2015 iMac.
    edited December 2016 StrangeDaysrich gregoryrevenantbaconstangwatto_cobraRayz2016mobius
  • Reply 31 of 217
    Hello Zen and Vega.
    prismaticspscooter63
  • Reply 32 of 217
    elijahg said:
    elijahg said:
    As others have said, it does seem Apple's only able to concentrate on one product these days. Back in the mid 90's they had heaps of products which was really their downfall - though at least they did frequently bring out new models - and they do seem to be going that way again lately (watch straps, anyone?). They should have discontinued the 2015 MBP and replaced it with the touch bar model at the same (bumped) price the 2015 MBP is at.

    As far as the Mac is concerned generally, this "great pipeline" that Cook keeps going on about is either incredibly long, or needs Dyno-Rod. Over and over he has said "we have some great products in the pipeline", then he eventually comes out with the touch bar MBP. That's not particularly "great", Tim. Ive's OCD over thinness is partly the reason, you can't fit powerful CPUs and GPUs into a thin machine. I don't care about thin, I want the computer to be an actual computer I can install drives in, upgrade RAM etc, not a fashion icon.
    When buying a portable notebook, I definitely want thinness -- thinner is less mass which is less weight. That makes carrying it much more convenient. I want a fast SSD, the faster the better. I certainly don't want removable drives. 

    The MBP with TouchBar and TouchID is a great machine. The reviews and user reviews have been very positive. I love my 2014 rMBP because it still flies, but I'd love to have one of these. So why do you think it's not a great portable?
    Thinness which results in you carrying a bagful of dongles wherever you go? Whose weight adds up. The 2015 MBP isn't heavy, and it has a full compliment of useful ports. Obviously I meant removable drives on a desktop, but still, they could have kept the SD card reader in the MBP.

    See the above, + battery life and too expensive.
    I don't need a bagful of dongles, I'm a software developer and my work is data. Thus I need a high performance machine that can run VMs and compile...don't need to carry around ethernet or projector dongles, thanks. And I've never used a SD card slot once on any of my MBPs (my prosumer gear uses CF anyway, tho i plug in at home).

    I'd say the battery life is good. Cost doesn't seem far removed from what I usually pay for my pro tools. My last MBP was $2500, and the new ones are $24-2800.
    edited December 2016 revenantwatto_cobraai46
  • Reply 33 of 217
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,748member
    macxpress said:
    That's been a pretty long road map for the Mac Pro...
    Intel's roadmap has been quite long as well...which doesn't help things. I still want to see Apple go back to a mini tower for the Mac Pro. It doesn't have to be as large as the old Mac Pro, but maybe the size of the PowerMac G4. Put a couple of PCIe slots, couple of flash storage slots, etc. It would also be cool I think to keep it the same black aluminum.
    An honest question:

    Because they make both the hardware and the software, couldn't Apple mitigate the long Intel roadmap by including A10X chips to offload some of the work from the Intel and 3rd-party graphic chips?
    1) Has this even been worked out with GPUs? We have GPU switching, but I don't think we have the dGPU and iGPU working together in Macs.

    2) They kind of do this with the new MBP's T1-chip, but not so much about offloading complex work, as unique work for Touch ID and Apple Pay using a variant of watchOS on ARM on the chip to interact with macOS on the x86_64. I'm assuming that the T1 is also responsible for the GPU output of the Touch Bar, but I don't know if that's the case.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 34 of 217
    What latest Intel processors are currently available for the iMac? 
    Currently, the 21.5" iMac uses Broadwell and the 27" uses Skylake
    edited December 2016 watto_cobrapscooter63
  • Reply 35 of 217
    Hello Zen and Vega.
    You really think AMD Zen has performance levels to replace Intel in Apple's Mac lineup?
  • Reply 36 of 217
    What latest Intel processors are currently available for the iMac? 
    the i7-6700k skylake. Updated parts will come out in 2017.
    baconstang
  • Reply 36 of 217
    elijahg said:
    elijahg said:
    macxpress said:
    That's been a pretty long road map for the Mac Pro...
    Intel's roadmap has been quite long as well...which doesn't help things. I still want to see Apple go back to a mini tower for the Mac Pro. It doesn't have to be as large as the old Mac Pro, but maybe the size of the PowerMac G4. Put a couple of PCIe slots, couple of flash storage slots, etc. It would also be cool I think to keep it the same black aluminum.
    An honest question:

    Because they make both the hardware and the software, couldn't Apple mitigate the long Intel roadmap by including A10X chips to offload some of the work from the Intel and 3rd-party graphic chips?

    They could, but they'd do better upgrading other things in the Macs such as the ridiculous spinning HDD they still use in the iMacs, or adding an extra couple of x86 cores. but that'd require better cooling, and the thin design won't allow that so thats a no. The other hardware in the computers (GPU for example) is progressing much faster than Intel CPUs.

    OK so for months people have been complaining about how tight-lipped Apple was, that they wouldn't comment on their desktop plans and worries they would be shutting it down. Now, Apple comments on this, and what do people do? Complain. 

    Very perplexing. 
    They've not really commented on their plans other than to say "we don't consider the Mac dead, yet"
    You don't expect Apple to tell *you* their detailed product plans, do you? He said it's not dead nor do they plan to kill it. I think that's more specific than Apple has ever been about future products.
    There's quite a difference between detailed and "we have some products on the way". Which is all they've said, and pretty sure everyone knew they have some Macs on the way. Eventually. Though maybe not for the MP.
    Sounds pretty clear to me -- not killing Mac, which was what all the hand-wringing had been about before today. And Cook has already commented on there being a future MP in an email to a customer. So I'm not really understanding what is offensive about this memo. What more could you reasonably expect him to tell you? Apple doesn't release details about announced products.
    edited December 2016 baconstangwatto_cobra1983pscooter63patchythepirateai46
  • Reply 38 of 217
    My iMac has been the best computer I've ever owned... That being said what I've seen of the Surface Studio (hardware) in real time was very compelling: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/devices/surface-studio/overview ...and dare I suggest even innovative...? ...and we can't buy (or even pre-order) a full sized mac monitor at this point, so my 2016 MBP is not yet in as designed use (literally in a drawer), and I'm still using what is now classed by Apple as 'obsolete' - a 17" mbp testing a non-Apple display - I can't use my iMac as a target display either with 2016 mbp (TB3 spec should support DisplayPort) as larger size screens seem preferable to squinting, at least for me... I will be curious: http://www.razerzone.com/gaming-systems/razer-blade-pro which offers a 4K 17" IPS display (pro?) with one of the top performing graphics cards available - but until hands on tough to say, fan noise & heat being obvious concerns... So I truly hope Mr. Cook is correct, and we will be impressed with what comes next, and it will all 'just work', and for me it could not come soon enough...
    Rayz2016pscooter63
  • Reply 39 of 217
    scottw2 said:
    Whereas laptop specs are confined by form factor restrictions, desktops are defined by high performance processors, large screens, ample storage and "a greater variety of I/O."

    Show us you meant what you said, Tim. The iMac is a bunch of mobile components glued behind a big screen. The Mac Mini is un-upgradable box of mobile hardware. The "trashcan" Mac Pro looks neat until you need to connect external accessories typically required of their workloads. You need breakout boxes, cables, external everything. In a senses, the dongle mess that is the 2016 MBP starts with the trashcan.

    Give Jony a challenge to design computers that: (1) upgradable, (2) has wide selection of replacement parts, (3) has ports that people actually need, (4) have regular updates and (5) look good, in that order. He only cares about thinness these days.


    How do you figure Ive only cares about thinness (ignoring for the moment that there's an entire team who designs these things)? Especially since he's gone on record many times to state that design is not just about how a thing looks, but how it works...
    I'm constantly amazed at how one person is supposedly responsible for the entire Mac lineup. People really believe that Mac hardware is decided by Jony Ive and Jony Ive alone?!?
    Ive is reportedly pretty much the most powerful guy at Apple now.
    elijahg said:
    elijahg said:
    As others have said, it does seem Apple's only able to concentrate on one product these days. Back in the mid 90's they had heaps of products which was really their downfall - though at least they did frequently bring out new models - and they do seem to be going that way again lately (watch straps, anyone?). They should have discontinued the 2015 MBP and replaced it with the touch bar model at the same (bumped) price the 2015 MBP is at.

    As far as the Mac is concerned generally, this "great pipeline" that Cook keeps going on about is either incredibly long, or needs Dyno-Rod. Over and over he has said "we have some great products in the pipeline", then he eventually comes out with the touch bar MBP. That's not particularly "great", Tim. Ive's OCD over thinness is partly the reason, you can't fit powerful CPUs and GPUs into a thin machine. I don't care about thin, I want the computer to be an actual computer I can install drives in, upgrade RAM etc, not a fashion icon.
    When buying a portable notebook, I definitely want thinness -- thinner is less mass which is less weight. That makes carrying it much more convenient. I want a fast SSD, the faster the better. I certainly don't want removable drives. 

    The MBP with TouchBar and TouchID is a great machine. The reviews and user reviews have been very positive. I love my 2014 rMBP because it still flies, but I'd love to have one of these. So why do you think it's not a great portable?
    Thinness which results in you carrying a bagful of dongles wherever you go? Whose weight adds up. The 2015 MBP isn't heavy, and it has a full compliment of useful ports. Obviously I meant removable drives on a desktop, but still, they could have kept the SD card reader in the MBP.

    See the above, + battery life and too expensive.
    A bag full of dongles? Seriously?
    USB C->A x2
    USB C->HDMI
    USB C->SD
    USB C->USB C Hub to supply extra ports for dongles
    USB C -> Displayport

    And now you have a computer with a decent number of ports.
    edited December 2016 baconstangpscooter63avon b7dysamoriafrankeed
  • Reply 40 of 217
    zoetmbzoetmb Posts: 2,437member
    scottw2 said:
    Whereas laptop specs are confined by form factor restrictions, desktops are defined by high performance processors, large screens, ample storage and "a greater variety of I/O."

    Show us you meant what you said, Tim. The iMac is a bunch of mobile components glued behind a big screen. The Mac Mini is un-upgradable box of mobile hardware. The "trashcan" Mac Pro looks neat until you need to connect external accessories typically required of their workloads. You need breakout boxes, cables, external everything. In a senses, the dongle mess that is the 2016 MBP starts with the trashcan.

    Give Jony a challenge to design computers that: (1) upgradable, (2) has wide selection of replacement parts, (3) has ports that people actually need, (4) have regular updates and (5) look good, in that order. He only cares about thinness these days.


    How do you figure Ive only cares about thinness (ignoring for the moment that there's an entire team who designs these things)? Especially since he's gone on record many times to state that design is not just about how a thing looks, but how it works...
    Come on!  I think it's pretty damn obvious that for the last X years, Apple has been designing to form over function.   Ive may have said it's how a thing works, but it's not the result and it has the credibility of a war hawk saying they only care about peace.  It is quite obvious that Apple is most certainly obsessed with thinness, having no seams in the case and with the new MacBook Pros only having one kind of port, I bet, because Ive thinks it looks better when viewed from the side.    If Apple really cared about how something works, they'd stop removing functionality when they "upgrade" applications and would provide a machine with upgradable memory, replaceable battery and replaceable storage.  They seem to go out of their way to prevent any of those things.  And I don't think Ive gives a damn what these machines look like when they're used in the real world and actually connected to other components. 
    larryaelijahgbaconstangavon b7dysamoriafrankeed
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