Apple has 'great desktops' on Mac roadmap, CEO Tim Cook says

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  • Reply 61 of 217
    mattinozmattinoz Posts: 1,039member
    Soli said:
    macxpress said:
    That's been a pretty long road map for the Mac Pro...
    Intel's roadmap has been quite long as well...which doesn't help things. I still want to see Apple go back to a mini tower for the Mac Pro. It doesn't have to be as large as the old Mac Pro, but maybe the size of the PowerMac G4. Put a couple of PCIe slots, couple of flash storage slots, etc. It would also be cool I think to keep it the same black aluminum.
    An honest question:

    Because they make both the hardware and the software, couldn't Apple mitigate the long Intel roadmap by including A10X chips to offload some of the work from the Intel and 3rd-party graphic chips?
    1) Has this even been worked out with GPUs? We have GPU switching, but I don't think we have the dGPU and iGPU working together in Macs.

    2) They kind of do this with the new MBP's T1-chip, but not so much about offloading complex work, as unique work for Touch ID and Apple Pay using a variant of watchOS on ARM on the chip to interact with macOS on the x86_64. I'm assuming that the T1 is also responsible for the GPU output of the Touch Bar, but I don't know if that's the case.
    I thought the IGPU and dGPU working together had already been worked out years and years ago.
    On the switching Macbooks didn't the iGPU always runs the screen composer each application renders it's own screen view then sends it to the screen composer for layout.

    Not sure A10x has the bandwidth to handle another GPU rendering streaming a full 5K screen via it's graphics systems.
    ai46
  • Reply 62 of 217
    volcanvolcan Posts: 1,782member
    StrangeDays said:

    I've already mentioned it but as a pro software developer I certainly don't need those ports on my portable. My portable needs a good keyboard, a good screen, faster storage, and wifi. Tho this design is perfect for my use case, and putting in all those ports, with the sacrifices and tradeoffs any hardware design incurs, would be unfavorable.
    I find it odd that a software developer would depend on a portable device as their main computer. I do software development as well and I use an iMac 5k and a Mac Pro. For me using my MBP is the worst case scenario when I'm on the road and I do need a bag full of dongles because I don't want to leave home without them.
    baconstangelijahgmacxpressdysamoria
  • Reply 63 of 217
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,748member
    elijahg said:
    Soli said:
    Which MBP models have non-identical ports of the same port interface? I don't see any. All MBP models are either all USB 3.0 or all USB 3.0/TB. I see no "these two ports are USB 3.0-only and these other two ports include support for TB3" setup.
    http://appleinsider.com/articles/16/10/29/two-of-four-thunderbolt-3-ports-in-new-13-macbook-pro-with-touch-bar-have-reduced-speeds
    Informative. I stand corrected, but doesn't that still mean there's only one controller for TB instead of 2, as I believe is in the 15" MBP?
    edited December 2016 elijahgai46
  • Reply 64 of 217
    Soli said:
    elijahg said:
    Soli said:
    Which MBP models have non-identical ports of the same port interface? I don't see any. All MBP models are either all USB 3.0 or all USB 3.0/TB. I see no "these two ports are USB 3.0-only and these other two ports include support for TB3" setup.
    http://appleinsider.com/articles/16/10/29/two-of-four-thunderbolt-3-ports-in-new-13-macbook-pro-with-touch-bar-have-reduced-speeds
    Informative. I stand corrected, but doesn't that still mean there's only one controller for TB instead of 2, as I believe is in the 15" MBP?
    I assume so, yes. None of the chips the 2015 MBP uses for extra ports (non-USB) though are particularly big, wouldn't have been too much of a squeeze to fit them. I think it's more so the case is uniform and not a "messy" array of different ports.
    edited December 2016 baconstangdysamoria
  • Reply 65 of 217
    gustavgustav Posts: 823member
    volcan said:
    StrangeDays said:

    I've already mentioned it but as a pro software developer I certainly don't need those ports on my portable. My portable needs a good keyboard, a good screen, faster storage, and wifi. Tho this design is perfect for my use case, and putting in all those ports, with the sacrifices and tradeoffs any hardware design incurs, would be unfavorable.
    I find it odd that a software developer would depend on a portable device as their main computer. I do software development as well and I use an iMac 5k and a Mac Pro. For me using my MBP is the worst case scenario when I'm on the road and I do need a bag full of dongles because I don't want to leave home without them.
    Myself, and almost every software developer I know uses an MBP as their main computer. Beyond a charger and an lightning cable, what "dongles" does a software developer need? If you do presentations, a video dongle or two. But that's always been the case - not unique to this model of MBP.
    watto_cobrabrucemcai46
  • Reply 66 of 217
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,748member
    gustav said:
    volcan said:
    StrangeDays said:

    I've already mentioned it but as a pro software developer I certainly don't need those ports on my portable. My portable needs a good keyboard, a good screen, faster storage, and wifi. Tho this design is perfect for my use case, and putting in all those ports, with the sacrifices and tradeoffs any hardware design incurs, would be unfavorable.
    I find it odd that a software developer would depend on a portable device as their main computer. I do software development as well and I use an iMac 5k and a Mac Pro. For me using my MBP is the worst case scenario when I'm on the road and I do need a bag full of dongles because I don't want to leave home without them.
    Myself, and almost every software developer I know uses an MBP as their main computer. Beyond a charger and an lightning cable, what "dongles" does a software developer need? If you do presentations, a video dongle or two. But that's always been the case - not unique to this model of MBP.
    And if everyone has an Mac, an Apple TV using AirPlay with Conference Room Display mode is probably all you need. If not, the future will just be a single USB-C cable for that conference room that anyone can connect to with ease.
    watto_cobrabrucemcai46
  • Reply 67 of 217
    Soli said:
    elijahg said:
    Soli said:
    Which MBP models have non-identical ports of the same port interface? I don't see any. All MBP models are either all USB 3.0 or all USB 3.0/TB. I see no "these two ports are USB 3.0-only and these other two ports include support for TB3" setup.
    http://appleinsider.com/articles/16/10/29/two-of-four-thunderbolt-3-ports-in-new-13-macbook-pro-with-touch-bar-have-reduced-speeds
    Informative. I stand corrected, but doesn't that still mean there's only one controller for TB instead of 2, as I believe is in the 15" MBP?
    The 13-inch MacBook Pro with Touch Bar has two TB3 controllers (same as the 15-inch), but its processor doesn't have enough PCIe lanes, so the TB3 controller associated with the left ports only has two PCIe lanes instead of four. This halves the maximum PCIe bandwidth to the TB3 ports on the left side.

    This only matters if connecting something like a high speed storage device where you need maximum TB3 bandwidth (up to 40 Gbps). Even with the speed limit the ports can still match TB2 (20 Gbps). No impact if using those ports for USB 3.1 gen 2, power or display output.

    Apple basically chose to allocate more PCIe bandwidth to the faster SSD rather than getting maximum throughput for TB3 on all ports.

    The 13-inch model without the Touch Bar only has two TB3/USB-C ports, and has a single TB3 controller which has enough PCIe lanes to operate at full speed.
    Solimacpluspluswatto_cobraelijahgai46dysamoria
  • Reply 68 of 217
    Soli said:
    gustav said:
    volcan said:
    StrangeDays said:

    I've already mentioned it but as a pro software developer I certainly don't need those ports on my portable. My portable needs a good keyboard, a good screen, faster storage, and wifi. Tho this design is perfect for my use case, and putting in all those ports, with the sacrifices and tradeoffs any hardware design incurs, would be unfavorable.
    I find it odd that a software developer would depend on a portable device as their main computer. I do software development as well and I use an iMac 5k and a Mac Pro. For me using my MBP is the worst case scenario when I'm on the road and I do need a bag full of dongles because I don't want to leave home without them.
    Myself, and almost every software developer I know uses an MBP as their main computer. Beyond a charger and an lightning cable, what "dongles" does a software developer need? If you do presentations, a video dongle or two. But that's always been the case - not unique to this model of MBP.
    And if everyone has an Mac, an Apple TV using AirPlay with Conference Room Display mode is probably all you need. If not, the future will just be a single USB-C cable for that conference room that anyone can connect to with ease.
    Sure use with ease. I use my MBP 50% of the day at home with an external monitor, mouse and keyboard. The lid is closed. Touch bar N/A 50% of the day. I can plug in a USB-C to my non apple LG display with no TB3 and one USB-C port, no camera, and no touch bar. I am one of Apple's biggest fans but they have been designing their own peripherals into obsolescence even before the PowerMac 6100 HDI-45 and AV Display. I've seen it so many times and I have 8 adapters for my current stuff and have to go buy 6 more for USB-C. Losing a floppy is brave, making stuff where your two current products MBP an iPhone dont plug together with the out of the box items is just weird.
    baconstangelijahgdysamoria
  • Reply 69 of 217
    What's a desktop?
    robin huberbaconstangdysamoria
  • Reply 70 of 217
    nhtnht Posts: 4,429member
    volcan said:
    StrangeDays said:

    I've already mentioned it but as a pro software developer I certainly don't need those ports on my portable. My portable needs a good keyboard, a good screen, faster storage, and wifi. Tho this design is perfect for my use case, and putting in all those ports, with the sacrifices and tradeoffs any hardware design incurs, would be unfavorable.
    I find it odd that a software developer would depend on a portable device as their main computer. I do software development as well and I use an iMac 5k and a Mac Pro. For me using my MBP is the worst case scenario when I'm on the road and I do need a bag full of dongles because I don't want to leave home without them.
    I find it odd that anyone would think that a 4.4" x 1.5" USB-C hub with SD reader, HDMI, and 3 USB-A port is "a bag full of dongles".

    http://a.co/c5oZTGN

    You use a 5K iMac and a Mac Pro to do software development?  LOL.  Okay.

    Thats too much for your average developer for anything but bragging rights and too little for anyone actually needing heavy metal.


    ai46
  • Reply 71 of 217
    nhtnht Posts: 4,429member
    stimpy said:
     I've seen it so many times and I have 8 adapters for my current stuff and have to go buy 6 more for USB-C. Losing a floppy is brave, making stuff where your two current products MBP an iPhone dont plug together with the out of the box items is just weird.
    Really?  6 more adapters?  Name them.  I bet there is a USB-C hub that replaces them with 1 unit.
    watto_cobrabrucemcanomeai46
  • Reply 72 of 217
    nhtnht Posts: 4,429member
    Let's see...

    Folks complain when Apple doesn't comment on a product line that hasn't been updated in a while and is rumored to be dead.

    Check.

    Folks complain when Apple comments that a product line that hasn't been updated in awhile  is actually alive and exciting new versions will appear soonish.

    Check.

    I must be reading the AppleInsider forum.

    Check.
    Soliwatto_cobraRayz2016brucemcai46
  • Reply 73 of 217
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,748member
    nht said:
    stimpy said:
     I've seen it so many times and I have 8 adapters for my current stuff and have to go buy 6 more for USB-C. Losing a floppy is brave, making stuff where your two current products MBP an iPhone dont plug together with the out of the box items is just weird.
    Really?  6 more adapters?  Name them.  I bet there is a USB-C hub that replaces them with 1 unit.
    Or just buy new cables, but what I find most odd is buying a notebook and then complaining that functionality designed for the lid being open isn't available when you close the lid. Being able to be used when closed on an external display is an option, not its primary intent, so to complain about that and not address that you could buy a camera for or in your external display sounds insane to me.
    edited December 2016 watto_cobrabrucemcai46
  • Reply 74 of 217
    My iMac has been the best computer I've ever owned... That being said what I've seen of the Surface Studio (hardware) in real time was very compelling: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/devices/surface-studio/overview ...and dare I suggest even innovative...? ...and we can't buy (or even pre-order) a full sized mac monitor at this point, so my 2016 MBP is not yet in as designed use (literally in a drawer), and I'm still using what is now classed by Apple as 'obsolete' - a 17" mbp testing a non-Apple display - I can't use my iMac as a target display either with 2016 mbp (TB3 spec should support DisplayPort) as larger size screens seem preferable to squinting, at least for me... I will be curious: http://www.razerzone.com/gaming-systems/razer-blade-pro which offers a 4K 17" IPS display (pro?) with one of the top performing graphics cards available - but until hands on tough to say, fan noise & heat being obvious concerns... So I truly hope Mr. Cook is correct, and we will be impressed with what comes next, and it will all 'just work', and for me it could not come soon enough...
    Umm, thats a gaming GPU, it won't equal AMD in video editing.
    Its the fastest GPU for gaming, but for anything else? meh.
    I'd be happy for better clarity & rationale on all of this, and wish Apple might provide more detail on optimization & choices, as well as greater clarity on hardware interactivity... Little seems simple these days. I'd still like to see a quad core i7 mini with dual drive bays, a 17" rMBP, an iMac with user vs OEM VESA, and any number of ports & 'it just works' options within reason...
    elijahg
  • Reply 75 of 217
    I think it is funny that people complain about a bag full of dongles.... if you are carrying around a "bag full of dongles" then you probably are carrying a bag full of other crap that the dongles plug into....   For most of the crap I plug in (at the desk... I don't bring all the stuff on the desk with me....) I just buy new cables (i.e. USB-C to USB Type B; USB-C to USB Micro B; USB Micro B Superspeed being the more common ones).

    Dongles are not new, and I have had dongles in the past for things like HDMI / DVI, and other stuff.  

    People that resist change would have us still using RS-232 and parallel ports.... 
    Soliwatto_cobraanome
  • Reply 76 of 217
    nht said:
    Let's see...

    Folks complain when Apple doesn't comment on a product line that hasn't been updated in a while and is rumored to be dead.

    Check.

    Folks complain when Apple comments that a product line that hasn't been updated in awhile  is actually alive and exciting new versions will appear soonish.

    Check.

    I must be reading the AppleInsider forum.

    Check.

    Well, Tim didn't actually say anything about WHEN. He just said "in the pipeline." That might mean "soonish" or it could mean "someday."

    It *is* encouraging that he told employees that at least there's something coming for the desktop, but note that he didn't say what or when. He may mean iMacs which have been receiving regular updates anyway. We still don't know if/when the headless Macs will get an update. It's bothersome that those go so long between updates that even employees are asking what the heck is going on.
    baconstangelijahgai46dysamoria
  • Reply 77 of 217
    stimpy said:
    Robin nailed it above. Buying a "new" iMac 21.5 gets you 2015 hardware, and slow notebook hard drive. For Fusion offerings a SSD "hybrid" HD where there is less than 1/5th the SSD portion of the faster 2013 models. You have to buy the middle model and upgrade it for another $100 to get the speed of a base 2013 model. Its frustrating to help my customers with these options. All this while my PC compresses video 3.5 times faster than an iMac and cost $900.
    Compression speed is adjustable. You compress faster, get a larger file, compress slower, you get a smaller file. Compress more and more, all the darker areas in your video will shift to pitch black and you'll screw up the subtle tonal balance of your video. Mastering H.264 settings is not for mere mortals.

    I'm assuming Stimpy is using the same settings on both machines.
    elijahg
  • Reply 78 of 217

    Those who keep on blaming Intel for Apple's excuses, I have two words for you: Surface Studio
    What are the sales figures of the Studio? That's the real indicator of success, is it not? 

    Depends on how you define "success" but that's a different discussion. It doesn't have to sell in massive numbers for the point to be valid: that it is possible to develop, advance and improve computers without a CPU update.
    elijahgsingularityai46dysamoria
  • Reply 79 of 217
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,748member

    Those who keep on blaming Intel for Apple's excuses, I have two words for you: Surface Studio
    What are the sales figures of the Studio? That's the real indicator of success, is it not? 
    It's not on sale yet. They missed the holiday shopping season yet no one on this forum through a fit.
    edited December 2016 watto_cobramacxpressbrucemcai46
  • Reply 80 of 217
    stimpy said:
    Robin nailed it above. Buying a "new" iMac 21.5 gets you 2015 hardware, and slow notebook hard drive. For Fusion offerings a SSD "hybrid" HD where there is less than 1/5th the SSD portion of the faster 2013 models. You have to buy the middle model and upgrade it for another $100 to get the speed of a base 2013 model. Its frustrating to help my customers with these options. All this while my PC compresses video 3.5 times faster than an iMac and cost $900.
    Compression speed is adjustable. You compress faster, get a larger file, compress slower, you get a smaller file. Compress more and more, all the darker areas in your video will shift to pitch black and you'll screw up the subtle tonal balance of your video. Mastering H.264 settings is not for mere mortals.

    I'm assuming Stimpy is using the same settings on both machines.
    He compares "his" PC to "any" iMac, so "Settings" is already irrelevant.
    dysamoria
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