Qualcomm demos under-display ultrasonic fingerprint sensor destined for mobile in 2018

Posted:
in iPhone edited June 2017
Qualcomm and smartphone vendor Oppo have demonstrated a prototype of a fingerprint sensor that works under common materials used for smartphones, like displays, glass, and aluminum that will see use in consumer devices in the summer of 2018.




The new second-generation ultrasonic Sense ID fingerprint sensor technology extends the first generation that wasn't compatible with a display. Qualcomm claims that the new version of the technology can read through 650 micrometers of aluminum, 800 micrometers of glass, and 1200 micrometers of OLED display substrate, with each solution needing a slightly different sensor.

In addition to authentication, Qualcomm notes that the ultrasonic technology behind the sensor can detect heart beat and blood flow as well. Besides the obvious detection if a finger is real or not, the technology has health monitoring implications as well.

According to information provided at the release, Qualcomm uses a "trusted execution environment" which sounds to be very similar to Apple's Secure Enclave. However, the solution isn't encrypted end-to-end like Apple's.

The newly announced Snapdragon 630 and 660 processors support the technology when it comes to market. Interestingly, Qualcomm has also stated that it will support non-Snapdragon platforms as well.

The company is expecting to provide the first samples that can read through glass and metal to vendors in July 2017, with engineering samples of the sensor available in October.

Devices sporting the glass and metal technology are expected in "early 2018," with the display-enabled sensor seeing installation in the summer of 2018.

Apple filed a patent on a technology that sounds remarkably the same in October 2016. A version of fingerprint sensing through an OLED display is expected in the forthcoming "iPhone 8" in the fall.

It seems improbable that Qualcomm's technology will reach the iPhone any time soon. The pair are locked in a legal battle regarding LTE modems, and appropriate payments for the technology.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 27
    anantksundaramanantksundaram Posts: 20,411member
    Is the secret sauce Apple's sensor, or the way Apple protects/sequesters the data?
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 2 of 27
    anton zuykovanton zuykov Posts: 1,056member
    Qualcomm claims that the new version of the technology can read through 650 m of aluminum, 800 m of glass, and 1200 m of OLED display substrate, with each solution needing a slightly
    Are you sure it is "650 m of aluminum" and not 650 um? The same goes for 800 and 1200 numbers...
    edited June 2017 doozydozenSoli
  • Reply 3 of 27
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 6,930administrator
    it is um. The character doesn't display in the forums.
    sergiozdoozydozen
  • Reply 4 of 27
    larryjwlarryjw Posts: 1,036member
    If Apple has their own technology why would Qualcomm tech be part of the 2018 iPhone?
    jbdragoncalipscooter63lolliverwatto_cobra
  • Reply 5 of 27
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,651member
    larryjw said:
    If Apple has their own technology why would Qualcomm tech be part of the 2018 iPhone?
    Apple won't actually build the sensor, and while it's assumed it's coming from their traditional supplier it doesn't HAVE to if Qualcomm and Apple settle their differences.
  • Reply 6 of 27
    robin huberrobin huber Posts: 4,031member
    Qualcomm, the Über of component suppliers. 
    doozydozencalibadmonk
  • Reply 7 of 27
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,455member
    gatorguy said:
    larryjw said:
    If Apple has their own technology why would Qualcomm tech be part of the 2018 iPhone?
    Apple won't actually build the sensor, and while it's assumed it's coming from their traditional supplier it doesn't HAVE to if Qualcomm and Apple settle their differences.
    Apple certainly won't be buying a Touch ID sensor from Qualcomm, and their differences look to require court intervention. The real question is whether Apple will be buying a modem from Qualcomm in 2018, and that is looking doubtful.

    Apple likely has worked with various vendors for a custom solution based partially on existing Touch ID technology, and whatever other IP licensing it needs to make it work.

    Same as it ever was; Apple wants to control its technology.
    doozydozenpscooter63lolliverwatto_cobratycho_macuser
  • Reply 8 of 27
    supadav03supadav03 Posts: 504member
    Are Oppo & Vivo the same company? Just read about Vivo and an under the screen fingerprint reader that was shown off using Qualcomm tech. 
  • Reply 9 of 27
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,651member
    supadav03 said:
    Are Oppo & Vivo the same company? Just read about Vivo and an under the screen fingerprint reader that was shown off using Qualcomm tech. 
    The are different subsidiaries of BBK Electronics Corporation. 
    doozydozenpscooter63
  • Reply 10 of 27
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,407member
    Let's see it in a product.
    ericthehalfbeeStrangeDayswatto_cobra
  • Reply 11 of 27
    supadav03 said:
    Are Oppo & Vivo the same company? Just read about Vivo and an under the screen fingerprint reader that was shown off using Qualcomm tech. 

    Yup, OnePlus as well. They are all part of parent company BBK electronics.
  • Reply 12 of 27
    sergiozsergioz Posts: 338member
    New fingerprint technology uses innovative ultrasonic technology that sounds quite innovative, I am sure Apple new phone will have it also! The BEST PART is fingerprint sensors technology is designed to give users a consistent, reliable authentication experience even when sunscreen, lotion, and moisture would otherwise get in the way.
  • Reply 13 of 27
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,038member
    I wondered how this would work. Does this likely mean that Qualcomm is the supplier of the rumoured iPhone 8 Touch ID?

    it is um. The character doesn't display in the forums.
    1) What am I missing since μm seems to work fine?

    2) Why is there such a disconnect between the articles and forums. There's often missing or altered content, like a big empty section where a YouTube video should be. I understand that you may have to do some adjusting for the forum post, but this seems like it could be automated to look for and alter basic text changes. And if not, if the editors are posting in the forum shouldn't they also be proofreading the forum post for these common issues?

    edited June 2017 caliSpamSandwichStrangeDayspscooter63
  • Reply 14 of 27
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 6,930administrator
    Soli said:
    I wondered how this would work. Does this likely mean that Qualcomm is the supplier of the rumoured iPhone 8 Touch ID?

    it is um. The character doesn't display in the forums.
    1) What am I missing since μm seems to work fine?

    2) Why is there such a disconnect between the articles and forums. There's often missing or altered content, like a big empty section where a YouTube video should be. I understand that you may have to do some adjusting for the forum post, but this seems like it could be automated to look for and alter basic text changes. And if not, if the editors are posting in the forum shouldn't they also be proofreading the forum post for these common issues?

    1) The forum implementation and the homepage are bridged. I'm not a web guy, but as I understand it, it's the bridging that can cut out some unicode and things like YouTube embeds. Plus, if we edit something on the front page, it would wipe out changes we made on the forum post for the article.

    2) Forums, 5% of traffic. Front page 95%. You tell me which we need to be perfect. You want to re-core a 2009 Mac Pro, or run testing on an eGPU? I'm your guy. But, I'm not a web guy. I'll pass on your suggestions to the dev team.
    edited June 2017 Solifastasleepwatto_cobra
  • Reply 15 of 27
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,038member
    Soli said:
    I wondered how this would work. Does this likely mean that Qualcomm is the supplier of the rumoured iPhone 8 Touch ID?

    it is um. The character doesn't display in the forums.
    1) What am I missing since μm seems to work fine?

    2) Why is there such a disconnect between the articles and forums. There's often missing or altered content, like a big empty section where a YouTube video should be. I understand that you may have to do some adjusting for the forum post, but this seems like it could be automated to look for and alter basic text changes. And if not, if the editors are posting in the forum shouldn't they also be proofreading the forum post for these common issues?

    1) The forum implementation and the homepage are bridged. I'm not a web guy, but as I understand it, it's the bridging that can cut out some unicode and things like YouTube embeds. Plus, if we edit something on the front page, it would wipe out changes we made on the forum post for the article.

    2) Forums, 5% of traffic. Front page 95%. You tell me which we need to be perfect. You want to re-core a 2009 Mac Pro, or run testing on an eGPU? I'm your guy. But, I'm not a web guy. I'll pass on your suggestions to the dev team.
    1) But being able to alter some text is pretty straightforward. Even on my iPhone/Mac I use text shortcuts so I can create more appealing formatting for various forums and apps in which I type.

    2) Understood (and thank you for the data), it’s not a top priority, but even if 1% you’d think that after many years there would be some time spent on creating a more cohesive experience between two posts of what should be identical-looking posts. It speaks to overall professionalism—that’s not an attack on you—but think about it in terms of, say, the ROI and how much revenue Apple’s accessibility features being to the company compared to their overall profit or it’s cost. I use that as an example because of Tim Cook’s quote. Now, Cook’s Comment is about a moral and/or societal responsibility, which isn’t the case here, but I am buffuddled that years after AI has switched forum SW that this is still an issue.

    Maybe I’m dead wrong in AI’s case, but formatting issues are usually easily surmountable and can be done as a downtime, piecemeal project, from my experience.
    edited June 2017 StrangeDayspscooter63
  • Reply 16 of 27
    calicali Posts: 3,494member
    gatorguy said:
    larryjw said:
    If Apple has their own technology why would Qualcomm tech be part of the 2018 iPhone?
    Apple won't actually build the sensor, and while it's assumed it's coming from their traditional supplier it doesn't HAVE to if Qualcomm and Apple settle their differences.
    Can you link us to your time machine? Thanks.

    what's annoying about these sites is people state the potential future/rumors as facts. Back in April people were talking about the next iPhone production, Something even Apple hadn't figured out. 
    pscooter63
  • Reply 17 of 27
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,651member
    cali said:
    gatorguy said:
    larryjw said:
    If Apple has their own technology why would Qualcomm tech be part of the 2018 iPhone?
    Apple won't actually build the sensor, and while it's assumed it's coming from their traditional supplier it doesn't HAVE to if Qualcomm and Apple settle their differences.
    Can you link us to your time machine? Thanks.

    what's annoying about these sites is people state the potential future/rumors as facts. Back in April people were talking about the next iPhone production, Something even Apple hadn't figured out. 
    I was trying to figure out what thing you think I said Apple would do but didn't see it. Then I looked at who was making the comment directed my way...
    and that explains it. ;)
  • Reply 18 of 27
    Pretty damn slow response time. I guess Qualcomm is feeling the heat from Apples likely launch of this technology in only a couple months. So they need to let people know what they're up to.

    "Hey look!!! We're doing this too, and we did it firs!!"
    StrangeDayspscooter63watto_cobra
  • Reply 19 of 27
    Qualcomm claims that the new version of the technology can read through 650 m of aluminum, 800 m of glass, and 1200 m of OLED display substrate, with each solution needing a slightly
    Are you sure it is "650 m of aluminum" and not 650 um? The same goes for 800 and 1200 numbers...
    650 m of aluminum, or 0.65 km. Look on the bright side: the "obsession with thinness" may finally be over. ;)
    fastasleepavon b7
  • Reply 20 of 27
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,651member
    Pretty damn slow response time. I guess Qualcomm is feeling the heat from Apples likely launch of this technology in only a couple months. So they need to let people know what they're up to.

    "Hey look!!! We're doing this too, and we did it firs!!"
    They're building on the Sense ID they introduced last year, and this announcement of the latest version is at Mobile World Congress going on now which could account for the timing. Lots on new tech gets a reveal at MWC. But yeah like you I think there's also an intent to let the rest of the industry know they aren't sitting still if Apple actually gets something working by the end of the year. 
    edited June 2017 glowearth
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