Hands on: Astropad's Luna Display dongle fakes a Mac display, transmits to iPad via Wi-Fi

Posted:
in General Discussion edited August 2017
Assorted app combinations have been utilizing Wi-Fi to extend the Mac's desktop to the iPad for some time -- but a new hardware dongle from the makers of the Astropad app eliminates hacks from the equation, and is able to send fully accelerated video to an iPad companion app.




Called Luna Display, the dongle is either a USB-C or Mini DisplayPort device that plugs into a compatible Mac port to ferry information to a dedicated and free iPad app. In essence, Luna turns an iPad into a wireless, touch-capable display for the Mac.




AppleInsider has been using a prototype of the Luna Display dongle for a week while producing content. We've gone back-and-forth between the Astropad app without the dongle, and the Luna app that utilizes the Luna Display, to compare performance between the two.

The location, and what is presented on the external display, is controllable by the standard Monitors control pane in macOS. Mirror the existing display and position it anywhere you like -- user's choice, without sometimes problematic software hacks.





The developers promise that the software works with both touch input and the Apple Pencil, and we can confirm that it does. We haven't delved too deeply into pressure sensitivity, smoothing or curves with the Apple Pencil yet, which requires an Astropad Studio subscription -- but we will when we get our hands on the final hardware.

We've also used gestures, pinching, and the entire range of gestures allowable on Apple's Magic Trackpad -- and again, no issues at all.

Compared to the Astropad standard edition, the Luna Display dongle facilitates much faster video. Even in fairly busy small office and home Wi-Fi networks, we didn't have any problems. It did drop out a few times with quick motion when trying it out in a busy Starbucks, but the video signal rapidly corrected itself.

We've examined a few different display extender apps for the iPad and MacOS and previously preferred wired implementations in the past, but for the first time a wireless solution has impressed us. Even in its pre-release incarnation with early software and (clearly) prototype hardware, Luna Display is just as fast as wired solutions we've tested.

Pre-release Luna Display dongle for USB-C
Pre-release Luna Display dongle for USB-C


As it stands, AppleInsider recommends the product, but we are less positive about the hardware requiring a monthly or annual subscription to unlock the full potential of the Apple Pencil. But, even without, it has the potential to open up some unique use cases, particularly with devices running headless, like connecting to a Mac mini as a home server, or a MacBook Pro in clamshell mode.

As you can likely tell, the hardware isn't quite ready for prime time. To that end, Astro HQ has launched a crowd funding campaign for Luna Display.

Users can pick up either a USB-C or a DisplayPort model of the Luna Display plug for $55 in the already-funded Kickstarter campaign. A bundle including a year of Astropad Studio plus the Luna Display is $99.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 40
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 7,071member
    Monthly subscription to use my own hardware? No thanks, no buy.
    macpluspluscornchip
  • Reply 2 of 40
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 4,339administrator
    Monthly subscription to use my own hardware? No thanks, no buy.
    Just for pressure sensitivity and the Apple Pencil.
  • Reply 3 of 40
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,470member
    I occasionally use Astropad. While it does work, it’s slow. The subscription is way too expensive though. Maybe Mike can verify it, but I think they want $69 - $79 a year. That’s nuts. If it were something like $20 a year, I could go with it.
    cornchip
  • Reply 4 of 40
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,470member
    Monthly subscription to use my own hardware? No thanks, no buy.
    Just for pressure sensitivity and the Apple Pencil.
    It works with the Pencil now, though it could do better. But there are problems.
    cornchip
  • Reply 5 of 40
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 7,071member
    Monthly subscription to use my own hardware? No thanks, no buy.
    Just for pressure sensitivity and the Apple Pencil.
    And? Does that require access to their networked servers? Or is it still my own hardware being utilized only? A monthly subscription to use my own hardware is a deal breaker. 
    edited August 2017 macpluspluscornchip
  • Reply 6 of 40
    19831983 Posts: 1,158member
    Interesting...
  • Reply 7 of 40
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 4,339administrator
    Monthly subscription to use my own hardware? No thanks, no buy.
    Just for pressure sensitivity and the Apple Pencil.
    And? Does that require access to their networked servers? Or is it still my own hardware being utilized only? A monthly subscription to use my own hardware is a deal breaker. 
    You're statement wasn't wrong, it was just imprecise. The Apple Pencil works fine with the free version of the Luna Display app. It just doesn't do pressure sensitivity with the Apple Pencil without the sub.
    edited August 2017
  • Reply 8 of 40
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 4,339administrator

    melgross said:
    I occasionally use Astropad. While it does work, it’s slow. The subscription is way too expensive though. Maybe Mike can verify it, but I think they want $69 - $79 a year. That’s nuts. If it were something like $20 a year, I could go with it.
    The pro sub is $80 per year. AstroPad by itself without the pro sub is a one-time $30. The Luna Display dongle will retail somewhere north of $60, and will have a free app to go with it.
  • Reply 9 of 40
    polymniapolymnia Posts: 902member
    I backed this. I'm biased, this is a hometown company to me. 

    I've also used Astropad and found it a very promising, though flawed, concept. It's the best implementation of touchscreen Mac control I've seen, yet there is a LOT of room for improvement. 

    Given that Apple isn't helping them much—there is not meaningful touch UI for Mac out of the box and the problem of no acceleration available via software display (which this device solves)—they have made an impressive first step. I'm happy to throw a few dollars their way to see what they can do next.  

    Perhaps the the best thing that could happen is get acquired by Apple and get their tech integrated into an official Touch UI for MacOS. 
    baconstangpscooter63
  • Reply 10 of 40
    eightzeroeightzero Posts: 2,291member
    Monthly subscription to use my own hardware? No thanks, no buy.
    Concur. That kind of thing is a complete deal breaker for me.

    YMMV. If you need this kind of thing, you know you *need* this. 
  • Reply 11 of 40
    polymniapolymnia Posts: 902member

    Monthly subscription to use my own hardware? No thanks, no buy.
    You do realize all software, by definition, allows you to use your own hardware. Hardware with no software=nothing. 

    Would you buy it if it cost $40? Probably not. 

    And if if you did buy it for $40, how would you feel if a couple years from now iOS or MacOS broke compatibility (a very likely case due to the unorthodox functionality the product provides)? Would you expect the developer to address the issues? Would you pay for that?

    if you wouldn't pay, yet still demand the update, put yourself in the developer's shoes. How would you feel about a bunch of clients asking you to revisit work you did years ago that met their needs at the time, but now that things are different, they want that work redone—and they refuse to pay for the rework? I know how I'd feel. Time to find some new clients. 

    Devs deserve to be paid ongoing money for ongoing work if that's the business model they establish. 

    Or, we could go back to the days where pro software was sold in a box with hardware dongle locks for $1000+ and the devs supported those high-prices licenses for years without additional payment. 
    baconstangpscooter63
  • Reply 12 of 40
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 7,071member
    polymnia said:

    Monthly subscription to use my own hardware? No thanks, no buy.
    You do realize all software, by definition, allows you to use your own hardware. Hardware with no software=nothing. 

    Would you buy it if it cost $40? Probably not. 

    And if if you did buy it for $40, how would you feel if a couple years from now iOS or MacOS broke compatibility (a very likely case due to the unorthodox functionality the product provides)? Would you expect the developer to address the issues? Would you pay for that?

    if you wouldn't pay, yet still demand the update, put yourself in the developer's shoes. How would you feel about a bunch of clients asking you to revisit work you did years ago that met their needs at the time, but now that things are different, they want that work redone—and they refuse to pay for the rework? I know how I'd feel. Time to find some new clients. 

    Devs deserve to be paid ongoing money for ongoing work if that's the business model they establish. 

    Or, we could go back to the days where pro software was sold in a box with hardware dongle locks for $1000+ and the devs supported those high-prices licenses for years without additional payment. 
    As a software developer I know exactly what I'd pay. And yes, of course I've purchased $40 software, including iOS apps that high and some higher. A tool is a tool.

    But I would not pay an ongoing subscription to use a tool that doesn't require ongoing cloud assets. How would you feel about paying Black & Decker an on-going subscription for full-use of the power tools you bought from them? You'd say that's absolutely ridiculous.

    New versions of one-time-purchase software is as old as software. It's not rocket science or some foreign concept. On the contrary, it is subscription model pricing that is the new and controversial business model, not the charging for new versions.
    edited August 2017 macplusplusradster360
  • Reply 13 of 40
    polymniapolymnia Posts: 902member
    polymnia said:

    Monthly subscription to use my own hardware? No thanks, no buy.
    You do realize all software, by definition, allows you to use your own hardware. Hardware with no software=nothing. 

    Would you buy it if it cost $40? Probably not. 

    And if if you did buy it for $40, how would you feel if a couple years from now iOS or MacOS broke compatibility (a very likely case due to the unorthodox functionality the product provides)? Would you expect the developer to address the issues? Would you pay for that?

    if you wouldn't pay, yet still demand the update, put yourself in the developer's shoes. How would you feel about a bunch of clients asking you to revisit work you did years ago that met their needs at the time, but now that things are different, they want that work redone—and they refuse to pay for the rework? I know how I'd feel. Time to find some new clients. 

    Devs deserve to be paid ongoing money for ongoing work if that's the business model they establish. 

    Or, we could go back to the days where pro software was sold in a box with hardware dongle locks for $1000+ and the devs supported those high-prices licenses for years without additional payment. 
    As a software developer I know exactly what I'd pay. And yes, of course I've purchased $40 software, including iOS apps that high and some higher. A tool is a tool.

    But I would not pay an ongoing subscription to use a tool that doesn't require ongoing cloud assets. How would you feel about paying Black & Decker an on-going subscription for full-use of the power tools you bought from them? You'd say that's absolutely ridiculous.

    New versions of one-time-purchase software is as old as software. It's not rocket science or some foreign concept. On the contrary, it is subscription model pricing that is the new and controversial business model, not the charging for new versions.
    Would it be ridiculous to pay ongoing for the hypothetical Black & Decker tool if the electrical power specification is being revised every year and the type of material you work with the tool is changed every year as well?

    I reject your assertion that something new is controversial. New things are fine. New business models are fine. I am an independent creative worker without a W2 job job. Is it controversial that I run my career as a Solopreneur? Am I doing it wrong, too?

    Edit: Upon further reflection, it would likely be Bosch or Makita who would produce a subscription tool. You are probably right that Black & Decker would never go the subscription tool route. Subscription works best for the best tools whose users need top performance on day 1 and stay that way forever. Black & Decker is crap that gets the job done for weekend warriors who likely pull out the tool a few times a year for small projects. And I own B&D tools. They certainly aren't my faves, though.
    edited August 2017
  • Reply 14 of 40
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,470member

    melgross said:
    I occasionally use Astropad. While it does work, it’s slow. The subscription is way too expensive though. Maybe Mike can verify it, but I think they want $69 - $79 a year. That’s nuts. If it were something like $20 a year, I could go with it.
    The pro sub is $80 per year. AstroPad by itself without the pro sub is a one-time $30. The Luna Display dongle will retail somewhere north of $60, and will have a free app to go with it.
    I carefully checked out their offerings. I would love to be able to use my 2017 iPad Pro 12.9” with photoshop, on my Mac Pro. But the price is just too much. Whether they like it or not, this is a utility. Utilities don’t cost that much. The dongle still doesn’t actually fix the issue, because without pressure sensitivity, it’s useless. So you need the pro version. That’s still going to cost a lot, on top of the hardware cost, which, as a one time expense, is palatable, unless they come out with a new one each year, and obsolete the previous one.

    like a lot of people, I’m getting pretty ticked off at all of these subscription models we’re now seeing. I’m willing to put up with Adobe’s, because I see where they’re going with it, which is adding more software and upgrading at a rapid pace. And while I’m not happy about the restriction to two computers, because it used to be three, at least my daughter and I can use it for that one price.

    but Adobe does offer both Lightroom and Photoshop together for $9.95 a month. Both are complex, and very complete professional software. I just don’t see how these people can possibly think that this small, simple and basic app, can be worth two thirds of that. It’s a joke.
    StrangeDays
  • Reply 15 of 40
    anomeanome Posts: 1,256member

    I saw this on Kickstarter, but didn't back it because they don't ship outside the US and Europe.

    The subscription is a bit high, not sure I'd want to pay an ongoing fee.

  • Reply 16 of 40
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,470member

    polymnia said:

    Monthly subscription to use my own hardware? No thanks, no buy.
    You do realize all software, by definition, allows you to use your own hardware. Hardware with no software=nothing. 

    Would you buy it if it cost $40? Probably not. 

    And if if you did buy it for $40, how would you feel if a couple years from now iOS or MacOS broke compatibility (a very likely case due to the unorthodox functionality the product provides)? Would you expect the developer to address the issues? Would you pay for that?

    if you wouldn't pay, yet still demand the update, put yourself in the developer's shoes. How would you feel about a bunch of clients asking you to revisit work you did years ago that met their needs at the time, but now that things are different, they want that work redone—and they refuse to pay for the rework? I know how I'd feel. Time to find some new clients. 

    Devs deserve to be paid ongoing money for ongoing work if that's the business model they establish. 

    Or, we could go back to the days where pro software was sold in a box with hardware dongle locks for $1000+ and the devs supported those high-prices licenses for years without additional payment. 
    Those aren’t good excuses. All software developers take those risks, so there’s nothing special for these people. That’s a non starter. You can look to many pieces of software for the Mac that have been around for many years. They have all had to make their software compatible when Apple updates the OS. Many are cheaper to buy, than to lease this for one year. Many of those programs are more sophisticated too.

    what they need to do here is to get off their high horse and to look around and understand that even Microsoft offers Office 365 for less than twice that for consumer use. And even those who don’t like Microsoft, have to admit that Office is a bargain when compared to this.

    i bought AstroPad when it first came out, and still own several competitors to it. The fact is that they’re asking too much. They think they’ve got the market cornered with this, and they’re trying to take advantage of it. This is a marginal product, and this never works out well for marginal products, because competitors will offer similar products for less.
    edited August 2017 StrangeDays
  • Reply 17 of 40
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,470member

    polymnia said:
    polymnia said:

    Monthly subscription to use my own hardware? No thanks, no buy.
    You do realize all software, by definition, allows you to use your own hardware. Hardware with no software=nothing. 

    Would you buy it if it cost $40? Probably not. 

    And if if you did buy it for $40, how would you feel if a couple years from now iOS or MacOS broke compatibility (a very likely case due to the unorthodox functionality the product provides)? Would you expect the developer to address the issues? Would you pay for that?

    if you wouldn't pay, yet still demand the update, put yourself in the developer's shoes. How would you feel about a bunch of clients asking you to revisit work you did years ago that met their needs at the time, but now that things are different, they want that work redone—and they refuse to pay for the rework? I know how I'd feel. Time to find some new clients. 

    Devs deserve to be paid ongoing money for ongoing work if that's the business model they establish. 

    Or, we could go back to the days where pro software was sold in a box with hardware dongle locks for $1000+ and the devs supported those high-prices licenses for years without additional payment. 
    As a software developer I know exactly what I'd pay. And yes, of course I've purchased $40 software, including iOS apps that high and some higher. A tool is a tool.

    But I would not pay an ongoing subscription to use a tool that doesn't require ongoing cloud assets. How would you feel about paying Black & Decker an on-going subscription for full-use of the power tools you bought from them? You'd say that's absolutely ridiculous.

    New versions of one-time-purchase software is as old as software. It's not rocket science or some foreign concept. On the contrary, it is subscription model pricing that is the new and controversial business model, not the charging for new versions.
    Would it be ridiculous to pay ongoing for the hypothetical Black & Decker tool if the electrical power specification is being revised every year and the type of material you work with the tool is changed every year as well?

    I reject your assertion that something new is controversial. New things are fine. New business models are fine. I am an independent creative worker without a W2 job job. Is it controversial that I run my career as a Solopreneur? Am I doing it wrong, too?

    Edit: Upon further reflection, it would likely be Bosch or Makita who would produce a subscription tool. You are probably right that Black & Decker would never go the subscription tool route. Subscription works best for the best tools whose users need top performance on day 1 and stay that way forever. Black & Decker is crap that gets the job done for weekend warriors who likely pull out the tool a few times a year for small projects. And I own B&D tools. They certainly aren't my faves, though.

    oops. This isn’t part of Polymnia’s comment. It seems when you delete a comment you’re writing as a response, and hold the delete button just a bit too long, it goes to the previous comment, and there doesn’t seem to be a way out of that. melgross
    edited August 2017
  • Reply 18 of 40
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,470member
    polymnia said:
    polymnia said:

    Monthly subscription to use my own hardware? No thanks, no buy.
    You do realize all software, by definition, allows you to use your own hardware. Hardware with no software=nothing. 

    Would you buy it if it cost $40? Probably not. 

    And if if you did buy it for $40, how would you feel if a couple years from now iOS or MacOS broke compatibility (a very likely case due to the unorthodox functionality the product provides)? Would you expect the developer to address the issues? Would you pay for that?

    if you wouldn't pay, yet still demand the update, put yourself in the developer's shoes. How would you feel about a bunch of clients asking you to revisit work you did years ago that met their needs at the time, but now that things are different, they want that work redone—and they refuse to pay for the rework? I know how I'd feel. Time to find some new clients. 

    Devs deserve to be paid ongoing money for ongoing work if that's the business model they establish. 

    Or, we could go back to the days where pro software was sold in a box with hardware dongle locks for $1000+ and the devs supported those high-prices licenses for years without additional payment. 
    As a software developer I know exactly what I'd pay. And yes, of course I've purchased $40 software, including iOS apps that high and some higher. A tool is a tool.

    But I would not pay an ongoing subscription to use a tool that doesn't require ongoing cloud assets. How would you feel about paying Black & Decker an on-going subscription for full-use of the power tools you bought from them? You'd say that's absolutely ridiculous.

    New versions of one-time-purchase software is as old as software. It's not rocket science or some foreign concept. On the contrary, it is subscription model pricing that is the new and controversial business model, not the charging for new versions.
    Would it be ridiculous to pay ongoing for the hypothetical Black & Decker tool if the electrical power specification is being revised every year and the type of material you work with the tool is changed every year as well?

    I reject your assertion that something new is controversial. New things are fine. New business models are fine. I am an independent creative worker without a W2 job job. Is it controversial that I run my career as a Solopreneur? Am I doing it wrong, too?

    Edit: Upon further reflection, it would likely be Bosch or Makita who would produce a subscription tool. You are probably right that Black & Decker would never go the subscription tool route. Subscription works best for the best tools whose users need top performance on day 1 and stay that way forever. Black & Decker is crap that gets the job done for weekend warriors who likely pull out the tool a few times a year for small projects. And I own B&D tools. They certainly aren't my faves, though.
    ok, here we go.

    my response would be that what we get now in a product is what we would get with any tool, and most of mine are DeWalt, with some Bosch and others. Makita is junk, as far as I’m concerned.

    what they all say is that they have no responsibility to add improvements to current products. That’s what would happen. Or, they would offer free upgrades to the firmware, assuming that that would fix these issues, which they wouldn’t, because they are hardware issues, I don’t know anyone who would pay yearly costs for hardware such as that.

    its not a real issue anyway, so it’s a pretty stupid one to use as an example.
    StrangeDays
  • Reply 19 of 40
    polymniapolymnia Posts: 902member
    melgross said:

    polymnia said:

    Monthly subscription to use my own hardware? No thanks, no buy.
    You do realize all software, by definition, allows you to use your own hardware. Hardware with no software=nothing. 

    Would you buy it if it cost $40? Probably not. 

    And if if you did buy it for $40, how would you feel if a couple years from now iOS or MacOS broke compatibility (a very likely case due to the unorthodox functionality the product provides)? Would you expect the developer to address the issues? Would you pay for that?

    if you wouldn't pay, yet still demand the update, put yourself in the developer's shoes. How would you feel about a bunch of clients asking you to revisit work you did years ago that met their needs at the time, but now that things are different, they want that work redone—and they refuse to pay for the rework? I know how I'd feel. Time to find some new clients. 

    Devs deserve to be paid ongoing money for ongoing work if that's the business model they establish. 

    Or, we could go back to the days where pro software was sold in a box with hardware dongle locks for $1000+ and the devs supported those high-prices licenses for years without additional payment. 
    Those aren’t good excuses. All software developers take those risks, so there’s nothing special for these people. That’s a non starter. You can look to many pieces of software for the Mac that have been around for many years. They have all had to make their software compatible when Apple updates the OS. Many are cheaper to buy, than to lease this for one year. Many of those programs are more sophisticated too.

    what they need to do here is to get off their high horse and to look around and understand that even Microsoft offers Office 365 for less than twice that for consumer use. And even those who don’t like Microsoft, have to admit that Office is a bargain when compared to this.

    i bought AstroPad when it first came out, and still own several competitors to it. The fact is that they’re asking too much. They think they’ve got the market cornered with this, and they’re trying to take advantage of it. Since this is a marginal product, and this never works out well for marginal products, because competitors will offer similar products for less.
    You are wrong. Developers who offer subscriptions do not take those risks. They take different risks. As a small business person, I defend their right to move their business to a subscription service.

    They have every right to license their software via subscription. You have every right to avoid that software. Or pay for a month, do a bunch of work with it, then cancel your subscription.

    I don't get the impression they feel they have the market cornered. What I see is them saying they want to be the high-cost, high-service provided of this type of software. They are pouring the resources into being the best option for this type of application.

    I own the original Astropad app as well. I do not currently subscribe to their service. I'm not sure I ever will. But I support their decision to take a shot at greatness. I hope they make something that is as no-brainer a subscription decision as Crashplan, MS 365 or Creative Cloud.
  • Reply 20 of 40
    polymniapolymnia Posts: 902member
    melgross said:
    polymnia said:
    polymnia said:

    Monthly subscription to use my own hardware? No thanks, no buy.
    You do realize all software, by definition, allows you to use your own hardware. Hardware with no software=nothing. 

    Would you buy it if it cost $40? Probably not. 

    And if if you did buy it for $40, how would you feel if a couple years from now iOS or MacOS broke compatibility (a very likely case due to the unorthodox functionality the product provides)? Would you expect the developer to address the issues? Would you pay for that?

    if you wouldn't pay, yet still demand the update, put yourself in the developer's shoes. How would you feel about a bunch of clients asking you to revisit work you did years ago that met their needs at the time, but now that things are different, they want that work redone—and they refuse to pay for the rework? I know how I'd feel. Time to find some new clients. 

    Devs deserve to be paid ongoing money for ongoing work if that's the business model they establish. 

    Or, we could go back to the days where pro software was sold in a box with hardware dongle locks for $1000+ and the devs supported those high-prices licenses for years without additional payment. 
    As a software developer I know exactly what I'd pay. And yes, of course I've purchased $40 software, including iOS apps that high and some higher. A tool is a tool.

    But I would not pay an ongoing subscription to use a tool that doesn't require ongoing cloud assets. How would you feel about paying Black & Decker an on-going subscription for full-use of the power tools you bought from them? You'd say that's absolutely ridiculous.

    New versions of one-time-purchase software is as old as software. It's not rocket science or some foreign concept. On the contrary, it is subscription model pricing that is the new and controversial business model, not the charging for new versions.
    Would it be ridiculous to pay ongoing for the hypothetical Black & Decker tool if the electrical power specification is being revised every year and the type of material you work with the tool is changed every year as well?

    I reject your assertion that something new is controversial. New things are fine. New business models are fine. I am an independent creative worker without a W2 job job. Is it controversial that I run my career as a Solopreneur? Am I doing it wrong, too?

    Edit: Upon further reflection, it would likely be Bosch or Makita who would produce a subscription tool. You are probably right that Black & Decker would never go the subscription tool route. Subscription works best for the best tools whose users need top performance on day 1 and stay that way forever. Black & Decker is crap that gets the job done for weekend warriors who likely pull out the tool a few times a year for small projects. And I own B&D tools. They certainly aren't my faves, though.
    ok, here we go.

    my response would be that what we get now in a product is what we would get with any tool, and most of mine are DeWalt, with some Bosch and others. Makita is junk, as far as I’m concerned.

    what they all say is that they have no responsibility to add improvements to current products. That’s what would happen. Or, they would offer free upgrades to the firmware, assuming that that would fix these issues, which they wouldn’t, because they are hardware issues, I don’t know anyone who would pay yearly costs for hardware such as that.

    its not a real issue anyway, so it’s a pretty stupid one to use as an example.
    Don't blame me for the tool analogy. I just played along as best I could.
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