Rumor recap: Who was right and wrong about the iPhone X and iPhone 8

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 61
    fallenjtfallenjt Posts: 3,833member
    Soli said:
    maestro64 said:

    After seeing Apple's implementation of Face ID, the touch ID was never in the plans neither was the idea of touch ID in the display. If this works as well as they claim people will not have issue with Face ID and Touch ID would have been redundant. As we know there will be some use cases where Face ID will not work, as Touch ID does not work in all use case, i.e. wet fingers or wearing gloves. I am assuming Apple will still allow for a pass code for when Face ID will not work.

    I don't get that impression. I can see how Touch ID behind the screen, if feasible, would be a great addition to the iPhone X. (and future models). As they stated during the event but they played off, if you have a genetic similarity to someone the 1:1000000 chance of a random person unlocking your device drops considerably. I think something along the lines of "using a passcode" was stated.

    For Apple Pay, imagine having the option to use both. In terms of security, two convenient biometrics are better than one.
    2 Biometrics are overkilled for a damn phone which 90% resides with the owner. I can understand if it's a PC, but mobile phone.
  • Reply 42 of 61
    fallenjtfallenjt Posts: 3,833member
    sog35 said:
    Soli said:
    maestro64 said:

    After seeing Apple's implementation of Face ID, the touch ID was never in the plans neither was the idea of touch ID in the display. If this works as well as they claim people will not have issue with Face ID and Touch ID would have been redundant. As we know there will be some use cases where Face ID will not work, as Touch ID does not work in all use case, i.e. wet fingers or wearing gloves. I am assuming Apple will still allow for a pass code for when Face ID will not work.

    I don't get that impression. I can see how Touch ID behind the screen, if feasible, would be a great addition to the iPhone X. (and future models). As they stated during the event but they played off, if you have a genetic similarity to someone the 1:1000000 chance of a random person unlocking your device drops considerably. I think something along the lines of "using a passcode" was stated.

    For Apple Pay, imagine having the option to use both. In terms of security, two convenient biometrics are better than one.
    Disagree.

    The portrait mode for iPhone7 was the first step to make FaceID a reality.  So Apple has been working on FaceID for at least 3 years.

    TouchID under the screen is not as great as people think. If the screen gets even minor scratches you are SCREWED. The entire screen needs to be sapphire.


    Minor scratches on screen will screw Touch ID ability? lol, you must be kidding me. You know Touch ID uses multiple point detection for fingerprint patterns right? That's why you can access the phone even with your fingertip, not full print. The enclave software will perform quick analysis to compare with the one stored on the device for matching. The chance of having someone with some patterns of fingerprint the same as yours are higher because of this. Bottom line, scratches on screen doesn't hinder fingerprint scanner ability, dude.
  • Reply 43 of 61
    SoliSoli Posts: 7,310member
    fallenjt said:
    Soli said:
    maestro64 said:

    After seeing Apple's implementation of Face ID, the touch ID was never in the plans neither was the idea of touch ID in the display. If this works as well as they claim people will not have issue with Face ID and Touch ID would have been redundant. As we know there will be some use cases where Face ID will not work, as Touch ID does not work in all use case, i.e. wet fingers or wearing gloves. I am assuming Apple will still allow for a pass code for when Face ID will not work.

    I don't get that impression. I can see how Touch ID behind the screen, if feasible, would be a great addition to the iPhone X. (and future models). As they stated during the event but they played off, if you have a genetic similarity to someone the 1:1000000 chance of a random person unlocking your device drops considerably. I think something along the lines of "using a passcode" was stated.

    For Apple Pay, imagine having the option to use both. In terms of security, two convenient biometrics are better than one.
    2 Biometrics are overkilled for a damn phone which 90% resides with the owner. I can understand if it's a PC, but mobile phone.
    "Overkill" should only be used with security when it affects dramatically affects convenience for the user, which is why it's fine that we commonly use encryption that would currently take billions of years to crack.

  • Reply 44 of 61
    Soli said:
    fallenjt said:
    Soli said:
    maestro64 said:

    After seeing Apple's implementation of Face ID, the touch ID was never in the plans neither was the idea of touch ID in the display. If this works as well as they claim people will not have issue with Face ID and Touch ID would have been redundant. As we know there will be some use cases where Face ID will not work, as Touch ID does not work in all use case, i.e. wet fingers or wearing gloves. I am assuming Apple will still allow for a pass code for when Face ID will not work.

    I don't get that impression. I can see how Touch ID behind the screen, if feasible, would be a great addition to the iPhone X. (and future models). As they stated during the event but they played off, if you have a genetic similarity to someone the 1:1000000 chance of a random person unlocking your device drops considerably. I think something along the lines of "using a passcode" was stated.

    For Apple Pay, imagine having the option to use both. In terms of security, two convenient biometrics are better than one.
    2 Biometrics are overkilled for a damn phone which 90% resides with the owner. I can understand if it's a PC, but mobile phone.
    "Overkill" should only be used with security when it affects dramatically affects convenience for the user, which is why it's fine that we commonly use encryption that would currently take billions of years to crack.

    Every security measure is done through risk analysis. Perhaps, a big company like Apple would have done it already. 1:1,000,000 is considered very low risk and mitigation is not needed. That's the reason why adding a second biometric is way overkilled.
  • Reply 45 of 61
    SoliSoli Posts: 7,310member
    fallenjt said:
    Soli said:
    fallenjt said:
    Soli said:
    maestro64 said:

    After seeing Apple's implementation of Face ID, the touch ID was never in the plans neither was the idea of touch ID in the display. If this works as well as they claim people will not have issue with Face ID and Touch ID would have been redundant. As we know there will be some use cases where Face ID will not work, as Touch ID does not work in all use case, i.e. wet fingers or wearing gloves. I am assuming Apple will still allow for a pass code for when Face ID will not work.

    I don't get that impression. I can see how Touch ID behind the screen, if feasible, would be a great addition to the iPhone X. (and future models). As they stated during the event but they played off, if you have a genetic similarity to someone the 1:1000000 chance of a random person unlocking your device drops considerably. I think something along the lines of "using a passcode" was stated.

    For Apple Pay, imagine having the option to use both. In terms of security, two convenient biometrics are better than one.
    2 Biometrics are overkilled for a damn phone which 90% resides with the owner. I can understand if it's a PC, but mobile phone.
    "Overkill" should only be used with security when it affects dramatically affects convenience for the user, which is why it's fine that we commonly use encryption that would currently take billions of years to crack.

    Every security measure is done through risk analysis. Perhaps, a big company like Apple would have done it already. 1:1,000,000 is considered very low risk and mitigation is not needed. That's the reason why adding a second biometric is way overkilled.
    You can't equate a biometric statistical match with a passcode when your biometric data is presented and left everywhere and can never be changed. This is why Schiller states that if you have a twin you may have to resort to using a passcode over Face ID. Having Face ID + Touch ID would  increase that security without being inconvenient.

    If you really believe that face recognition is "low risk" then even making it 1:1000000 when you could do a lot less R&D and make it much less finicky by keeping it on par with Touch ID or a 4-digit PIN. The answer is what I already stated about why 1:1000000 isn't "overkill" which you didn't state it was, but I'm absolutely positive you would've said had Apple presented Face ID as being 1:100000 or equal to but not less than Touch ID (1:50000).
    edited September 2017
  • Reply 46 of 61
    Where are some bloody new Macs?  MacPro?  Mac Mini? iMac Pro?  Come on Apple.  This is just ridiculous, and you are too dependent on iPhone sales.  Some good updates would really spur Mac sales.  Don't forget your roots or your customers.  iPads and iPhones don't pay the bills for customers.
  • Reply 47 of 61
    SoliSoli Posts: 7,310member
    Where are some bloody new Macs?  MacPro?  Mac Mini? iMac Pro?  Come on Apple.  This is just ridiculous, and you are too dependent on iPhone sales.  Some good updates would really spur Mac sales.
    We just had an iPhone event yesterday and you're already upset there wasn't a Mac even the very next day? Jesusfreak-n Christ, is 24 hours between Apple event really too much to ask?

     Don't forget your roots or your customers.  iPads and iPhones don't pay the bills for customers.
    It's this entitlement crap that makes people hate Apple customers. They owe you nothing and you owe them nothing.
    edited September 2017 anome
  • Reply 48 of 61

    fallenjt said:
    Soli said:
    maestro64 said:

    After seeing Apple's implementation of Face ID, the touch ID was never in the plans neither was the idea of touch ID in the display. If this works as well as they claim people will not have issue with Face ID and Touch ID would have been redundant. As we know there will be some use cases where Face ID will not work, as Touch ID does not work in all use case, i.e. wet fingers or wearing gloves. I am assuming Apple will still allow for a pass code for when Face ID will not work.

    I don't get that impression. I can see how Touch ID behind the screen, if feasible, would be a great addition to the iPhone X. (and future models). As they stated during the event but they played off, if you have a genetic similarity to someone the 1:1000000 chance of a random person unlocking your device drops considerably. I think something along the lines of "using a passcode" was stated.

    For Apple Pay, imagine having the option to use both. In terms of security, two convenient biometrics are better than one.
    2 Biometrics are overkilled for a damn phone which 90% resides with the owner. I can understand if it's a PC, but mobile phone.
    I quite disagree. The more the merrier.

    I stand by my claims about this when it was first rumoured - FaceID shouldn't replace TouchID, but could be a handy supplement to it. Particularly for people who have problems with their hands.

    Added to that, having both TouchID (1:50000) and FaceID (1:1000000), if implemented properly offers even greater security (1:50 000 000 000), and would allow for twins to keep their phones secure from eachother.

    I hope that Apple manages to implement both on future phones, although I can easily see they'll end up abandoning TouchID once they can implement FaceID at a lower price point.

    Soli
  • Reply 49 of 61
    My prediction is, next year we will have iPhone x and iPhone x plus.   

    When lg or sharp get there oled plants functional, the iPhone 8 style phone will slim down the bezel, but not completely remove them. 

    I think The Touch ID can possible still make an appearance in the next generation of the oled iPhone, after all the 11 iOS gm did show support for multi biometrics to trigger Apple Pay.  Which strong tells me it was apples intention to couple face id and Touch ID.  

    I trust face id is secure. But I also know people don't like change. 
    I also know it will all come to a head when people receive the phone, because you know for a fact some people will do everything they can to create facegate. 

    With regards to oled and iPad, I suspect this super retina may make its way to the MacBook Pro  taking the title of worlds smallest laptop away from dells xps line. 

    And oled iPad, will have reduced. Bezels but I don't think it will be edge to edge.  


    Me I've been waiting for Apple to come out with an edge to edge phone ever since I saw the lg G4 in 2014.  
  • Reply 50 of 61
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 2,372moderator
    eightzero said:
    Soli said:
    maestro64 said:

    After seeing Apple's implementation of Face ID, the touch ID was never in the plans neither was the idea of touch ID in the display. If this works as well as they claim people will not have issue with Face ID and Touch ID would have been redundant. As we know there will be some use cases where Face ID will not work, as Touch ID does not work in all use case, i.e. wet fingers or wearing gloves. I am assuming Apple will still allow for a pass code for when Face ID will not work.

    I don't get that impression. I can see how Touch ID behind the screen, if feasible, would be a great addition to the iPhone X. (and future models). As they stated during the event but they played off, if you have a genetic similarity to someone the 1:1000000 chance of a random person unlocking your device drops considerably. I think something along the lines of "using a passcode" was stated.

    For Apple Pay, imagine having the option to use both. In terms of security, two convenient biometrics are better than one.
    Nope. iPhone 8/8+ are the last implementation of TouchID. FaceID is The (Sole) Future. 
    TouchID will live on at least in iPads, where it's not as clear where you'd place the FaceID sensor array.  I pick up my iPad in landscape mode, with my right hand, immediately covering the front-facing camera.  I bet I'm not alone, and that implies the sensors would not be a good fit there.  There's also the very fact of portrait versus landscape use.  Which edge should get the sensors?  A long edge or a short edge?  And there's less impetus to eliminate bezels on an iPad, which clearly is an advantage of FaceID on a phone.
  • Reply 51 of 61
    Soli said:
    Where are some bloody new Macs?  MacPro?  Mac Mini? iMac Pro?  Come on Apple.  This is just ridiculous, and you are too dependent on iPhone sales.  Some good updates would really spur Mac sales.
    We just had an iPhone event yesterday and you're already upset there wasn't a Mac even the very next day? Jesusfreak-n Christ, is 24 hours between Apple event really too much to ask?

     Don't forget your roots or your customers.  iPads and iPhones don't pay the bills for customers.
    It's this entitlement crap that makes people hate Apple customers. They owe you nothing and you owe them nothing.
    Why yes.  Because they have been slow as kaka with getting new Macs out.

    And yes, I'm entitled.  I have been a customer for over thirty years, and I'm a stock holder.  If you hate Apple customers, why are you here on an Apple forum bashing Apple customers?  

  • Reply 52 of 61
    SoliSoli Posts: 7,310member
    Soli said:
    Where are some bloody new Macs?  MacPro?  Mac Mini? iMac Pro?  Come on Apple.  This is just ridiculous, and you are too dependent on iPhone sales.  Some good updates would really spur Mac sales.
    We just had an iPhone event yesterday and you're already upset there wasn't a Mac even the very next day? Jesusfreak-n Christ, is 24 hours between Apple event really too much to ask?

     Don't forget your roots or your customers.  iPads and iPhones don't pay the bills for customers.
    It's this entitlement crap that makes people hate Apple customers. They owe you nothing and you owe them nothing.
    Why yes.  Because they have been slow as kaka with getting new Macs out.

    And yes, I'm entitled.  I have been a customer for over thirty years, and I'm a stock holder.  If you hate Apple customers, why are you here on an Apple forum bashing Apple customers?  
    I hate entitled pricks, which only accounts for a small, but unfortunately vocal portion, of the Apple customer base. Again, you owe them nothing and they owe you nothing.
    edited September 2017 anome
  • Reply 53 of 61
    anomeanome Posts: 950member
    Soli said:
    Where are some bloody new Macs?  MacPro?  Mac Mini? iMac Pro?  Come on Apple.  This is just ridiculous, and you are too dependent on iPhone sales.  Some good updates would really spur Mac sales.
    We just had an iPhone event yesterday and you're already upset there wasn't a Mac even the very next day? Jesusfreak-n Christ, is 24 hours between Apple event really too much to ask?

     Don't forget your roots or your customers.  iPads and iPhones don't pay the bills for customers.
    It's this entitlement crap that makes people hate Apple customers. They owe you nothing and you owe them nothing.
    Why yes.  Because they have been slow as kaka with getting new Macs out.
    They refreshed the MacBooks and iMacs at WWDC and announced an iMac Pro for later this year, and a new Mac Pro for next year. So, it sounds less like a legitimate criticism, and more like kvetching.
  • Reply 54 of 61
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,156moderator
    maestro64 said:
    I agree touch ID is going to be around for at least 3 or 4 more years, Especial as long as 5SE or it derivative is around. The horse power and optical sensors needed they are not going to put in all the products. I expect to see the X derivatives to be the only product with Face ID for a while and it will show up in the MacBook Pro at some point and then the Ipad Pro. I can see touch ID staying around.
    At this point, these latest iPhone designs will likely be changed very little going forward much like the SE. If there's a solid state battery improvement, they can get very fast charging without the risk but in terms of the outward design, there's nothing left to do. This is another benefit to the X model being priced higher because at another iteration, an upgrade would simply be to drop it down in price and displace one of the touch id models e.g the Plus model. There doesn't need to be a Plus model any more.

    iPhone X might be the last iPhone design. There's nothing left to improve on it.
  • Reply 55 of 61
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 2,672administrator
    Where are some bloody new Macs?  MacPro?  Mac Mini? iMac Pro?  Come on Apple.  This is just ridiculous, and you are too dependent on iPhone sales.  Some good updates would really spur Mac sales.  Don't forget your roots or your customers.  iPads and iPhones don't pay the bills for customers.
    iMac Pro = December. We already know this. The Mac Pro is not coming out in 2017 -- we already know this. The iMacs and Mac Book Pro were just refreshed.

    iPad and iPhones pay the bills for Apple. I'm also pretty sure that there are robust point of sale solutions for the iPad, plus many, many enterprise solutions for both, so saying that they "don't pay the bills for customers" is demonstrably false.

    "Don't forget your roots or your customers" : the iPhone outnumbers the mac 20:1 in sales volume, and at least 5:1 in dollar sales volume - and has for six years. Seems pretty clear who the customers are. Apple's so-called roots are irrelevant. The iPad and the iPhone are the purest results of Apple's vision of a "computer for the rest of us."
    edited September 2017 Soli
  • Reply 56 of 61
    Soli said:

    I hate entitled pricks, which only accounts for a small, but unfortunately vocal portion, of the Apple customer base. Again, you owe them nothing and they owe you nothing.
    Well, don't be an entitled prick then.  

    You are entitled to your prickish opinion.  My opinion is that they are letting a good part of their product base wither on the vine.  A company with Apple's assets can walk and chew gum at the same time.  
  • Reply 57 of 61
    Where are some bloody new Macs?  MacPro?  Mac Mini? iMac Pro?  Come on Apple.  This is just ridiculous, and you are too dependent on iPhone sales.  Some good updates would really spur Mac sales.  Don't forget your roots or your customers.  iPads and iPhones don't pay the bills for customers.
    iMac Pro = December. We already know this. The Mac Pro is not coming out in 2017 -- we already know this. The iMacs and Mac Book Pro were just refreshed.

    iPad and iPhones pay the bills for Apple. I'm also pretty sure that there are robust point of sale solutions for the iPad, plus many, many enterprise solutions for both, so saying that they "don't pay the bills for customers" is demonstrably false.

    "Don't forget your roots or your customers" : the iPhone outnumbers the mac 20:1 in sales volume, and at least 5:1 in dollar sales volume - and has for six years. Seems pretty clear who the customers are. Apple's so-called roots are irrelevant. The iPad and the iPhone are the purest results of Apple's vision of a "computer for the rest of us."
    iPads and iPhones are great.  I love mine.  I scoop up the latest and greatest with no qualms.  But until I can hook up a 30" monitor to my iPad and run the applications I need to run on my Mac, it is not a solution to my basic computing needs.   The current MacPro is getting long in the tooth.  The Mac Mini even more so.  MacBooks have a gimicky new touch screen, but hardly revolutionary.  iMac Pro looks nice.  Let's see these kinds of updates in the rest of the product line.
  • Reply 58 of 61
    jesusfreak said:
    The current MacPro is getting long in the tooth.
    ...is getting
    *cough*  :| 
  • Reply 59 of 61
    anome said:
    Soli said:
    Where are some bloody new Macs?  MacPro?  Mac Mini? iMac Pro?  Come on Apple.  This is just ridiculous, and you are too dependent on iPhone sales.  Some good updates would really spur Mac sales.
    We just had an iPhone event yesterday and you're already upset there wasn't a Mac even the very next day? Jesusfreak-n Christ, is 24 hours between Apple event really too much to ask?

     Don't forget your roots or your customers.  iPads and iPhones don't pay the bills for customers.
    It's this entitlement crap that makes people hate Apple customers. They owe you nothing and you owe them nothing.
    Why yes.  Because they have been slow as kaka with getting new Macs out.
    They refreshed the MacBooks and iMacs at WWDC and announced an iMac Pro for later this year, and a new Mac Pro for next year. So, it sounds less like a legitimate criticism, and more like kvetching.
    The MacBooks and the iMacs are incremental updates for the consumer market.  The iMac Pro is not an update to the promised Mac Pro.  The Mac Mini hasn't been updated in years.  If you are looking for the best of the best, Apple is behind and lacking.  I expect more from Apple.   Just my opinion of course, but I know many folks who agree with me.  The new phones are great, but they need to pay a bit more attention to the computers.  Don't even get me started on how they have allowed Airports to wither and die.
  • Reply 60 of 61
    You write: There is no dedicated function area —Kuo was flat-out wrong.

    No. Kuo got some sizes wrong but he was perfectly accurate about the "function area".

    It is the media who interpreted his words as a software feature - you were wrong!

    The "function area" is clearly shown by Apple in the iPhone X video. It is a hardware implementation function. It folds back. I predicted this in my comments on this site and others. How could Kuo have known anything about a software feature?

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