FCC chairman urges Apple to activate FM radios in iPhones in light of recent disasters [u]...

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  • Reply 41 of 153
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,288member
    nht said:
    gatorguy said:

    Speaking from recent experience I can say with certainty that having FM enabled on your smartphone is absolutely worthwhile in the event of a public emergency.

    With Hurricane Irma approaching early the next morning we lost power at around 11pm the prior evening. By midnight our internet service was also out. Within another hour or two cell service began failing, lost completely before daybreak. We were lucky having a whole house generator, but our neighbors, some of them quite elderly, not so much. There was no going outside to crank up even a standalone generator with debris flying through the air, blindingly heavy rain, wind gusts already exceeding 60mph. No power and no cell service in the dead of night is a bad thing...
    A whole house generator is about $2500+installation for a 10 KW genset.  That's 3.5 iPhones 8s for the generator...if you can afford an iPhone and live in a hurricane area you had the discretionary income to afford one over time.
    But those with emergency radios or smartphones with FM enabled, and a lot of folks have them, could still stay abreast of emergency alerts, tornado warnings, and the latest status on the hurricane itself. Almost every smartphone already has an FM radio built-in, tho Apple has chosen to disable theirs. Yes your iPhone already has FM capabilities. AFAICT it would not cost Apple anything more to leave it as a working chip rather than disabling it. 
    This is false.  Typically you use headphones as the antenna.  


    What's false? Nokia figured out how to do without one years ago. You really think technology has gone backwards since then and Apple couldn't figure it out too? While it is typical for manufacturers to take the cheaper route and let the user rely on wired headphones it does not need to be done that way. 
    http://news.softpedia.com/news/5030-the-First-Nokia-with-Built-In-Radio-Antenna-Unveiled-106516.shtml
    edited September 2017
  • Reply 42 of 153
    gatorguy said:
    If you live in a hurricane prone area, you should have a hand crank emergency weather radio. How would people in Puerto Rico be powering their iPhones to use as radios when they are mostly without any power anyway? These little radios can be had for like $20 now and they have flashlights, radios, can even crank to charge your smart phone. I guess Apple should also make a crank accessory? Pai is such an idiot.
    Agreed. I live in a hurricane prone area and have gone thru some. Cell phone is useless when the power is out for days on end. Hand crank radio worked perfectly. I’d rather save the limited phone power for texts, assuming towers online. 
    I'm sure you figured out you can charge your phone from your vehicle. ;)
    If only vehicles included radios. /s
    stompy
  • Reply 43 of 153
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,288member
    gatorguy said:
    If you live in a hurricane prone area, you should have a hand crank emergency weather radio. How would people in Puerto Rico be powering their iPhones to use as radios when they are mostly without any power anyway? These little radios can be had for like $20 now and they have flashlights, radios, can even crank to charge your smart phone. I guess Apple should also make a crank accessory? Pai is such an idiot.
    Agreed. I live in a hurricane prone area and have gone thru some. Cell phone is useless when the power is out for days on end. Hand crank radio worked perfectly. I’d rather save the limited phone power for texts, assuming towers online. 
    I'm sure you figured out you can charge your phone from your vehicle. ;)
    If only vehicles included radios. /s
    I don't think you'll be walking out to your vehicle in blasting rain when tree branches, fence pieces and yard chairs are flying past pushed by 100MPH winds. At least I would assume you're wiser than that.

    Dead of night, no porchlights, no streetlights, no moonlight, the only light a fleeting one when a transformer explodes. You can hear the wind howl, the trees cracking, unknown things hitting your home while you wait and pray that it's not accompanied by tornadoes which are far more likely to rip your roof off than the hurricane. If you've lost all your normal connections to the outside world whether by accident or ignorance that FM chip in your phone could be your best friend for a few hours. 
    edited September 2017
  • Reply 44 of 153
    gatorguy said:
    If you live in a hurricane prone area, you should have a hand crank emergency weather radio. How would people in Puerto Rico be powering their iPhones to use as radios when they are mostly without any power anyway? These little radios can be had for like $20 now and they have flashlights, radios, can even crank to charge your smart phone. I guess Apple should also make a crank accessory? Pai is such an idiot.
    Agreed. I live in a hurricane prone area and have gone thru some. Cell phone is useless when the power is out for days on end. Hand crank radio worked perfectly. I’d rather save the limited phone power for texts, assuming towers online. 
    I'm sure you figured out you can charge your phone from your vehicle. ;)
    Useless if your car is flooded, which happened to us with just rains last month here in new orleans, or if there are dangerous winds, debris, etc. No, there is absolutely no substitute for an emergency hand crank radio if you live in a hurricane zone. Unless you just moved there there’s no reason you shouldn’t have one in the closet. The government/Apple can’t be responsible for your failure to invest in the bare minimum of common sense. 
    edited September 2017 tmay
  • Reply 45 of 153
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,288member
    gatorguy said:
    If you live in a hurricane prone area, you should have a hand crank emergency weather radio. How would people in Puerto Rico be powering their iPhones to use as radios when they are mostly without any power anyway? These little radios can be had for like $20 now and they have flashlights, radios, can even crank to charge your smart phone. I guess Apple should also make a crank accessory? Pai is such an idiot.
    Agreed. I live in a hurricane prone area and have gone thru some. Cell phone is useless when the power is out for days on end. Hand crank radio worked perfectly. I’d rather save the limited phone power for texts, assuming towers online. 
    I'm sure you figured out you can charge your phone from your vehicle. ;)
    Useless if your car is flooded, which happened to us with just rains last month here in new orleans, or if there are dangerous winds, debris, etc. No, there is absolutely no substitute for an emergency hand crank radio if you live in a hurricane zone. Unless you just moved there there’s no reason you shouldn’t have one in the closet. The government/Apple can’t be responsible for your failure to invest in the bare minimum of common sense. 
    ...but Apple can be responsible for disabling the working FM in the phone you already had.
  • Reply 46 of 153
    "When wireless networks go down during a natural disaster, smartphones with activated FM chips can allow Americans to get vital access to life-saving information," Pai wrote. "I applaud those companies that have done the right thing by activating the FM chips in their phones."

    Apple should "step up to the plate and put the safety of the American people first," he concluded. Pai has previously refused to make FM support mandatory, but has also advocated for inclusion.
    Multiple objectionable points here regarding Pai. This is the same guy that has given ISP's the go ahead to track all of our online activity and hasn't made choices that is in the best interest of individuals, but corporations. With this in mind, what would be the security and privacy implication of enabling those chips? I'm in the West Coast and stay away from the East during hurricane season. Therefore, it doesn't bother me and tens of millions to have it disabled. I could be wrong, but it just feels like another Government excuse (as was with the San Bernardino shooting) to use human tragedy as a means of widespread invasion of individuals privacy and security. Therefore, my question lays - I hope Apple doesn't make choices based on emotion.
      • Reply 47 of 153
        mike1mike1 Posts: 1,850member
        gatorguy said:
        mike1 said:
        Overly simplistic request to just activate it. Like Apple could push a software update to people with no wifi or cell coverage. Even if he means in the long term, there are several reasons apple may not want to...

        1. They would have to create an entire interface for the FM tuner that doesn't currently exist. In addition, they would need to optimize the performance of the stock FM tuner. Resources would need to be dedicated to this instead of something else.

        2. However, the most important reason would be because the user experience would absolutely suck. There is no FM antenna and therefore would be no reception. People would blame Apple when in reality they can have very little impact on the tuner performance. Just because the chip in the phone has an FM tuner, doesn't mean it's any good to begin with. The hardware would have to be designed to use a headphone (3.5mm or Lightning) as the antenna as it was in the old iPod.Just plugging in a wire does not make an antenna. Don't know how FM signals in particular hinder cell performance, but there is a lot of concern to minimize all Radio Frequency Interference (RFI) in the devices to maximize performance. So, again, hardware would likely need to be designed to implement an FM tuner.

        Not so simple. As others have noted, you can buy a transistor radio for $10 or less and for a few $$$ more, a radio with a hand-crank where batteries would not even be a concern.
        Speaking from recent experience I can say with certainty that having FM enabled on your smartphone is absolutely worthwhile in the event of a public emergency.

        With Hurricane Irma approaching early the next morning we lost power at around 11pm the prior evening. By midnight our internet service was also out. Within another hour or two cell service began failing, lost completely before daybreak. We were lucky having a whole house generator, but our neighbors, some of them quite elderly, not so much. There was no going outside to crank up even a standalone generator with debris flying through the air, blindingly heavy rain, wind gusts already exceeding 60mph. No power and no cell service in the dead of night is a bad thing...

        But those with emergency radios or smartphones with FM enabled, and a lot of folks have them, could still stay abreast of emergency alerts, tornado warnings, and the latest status on the hurricane itself. Almost every smartphone already has an FM radio built-in, tho Apple has chosen to disable theirs. Yes your iPhone already has FM capabilities. AFAICT it would not cost Apple anything more to leave it as a working chip rather than disabling it. This isn't a new issue but something that's been a problem for awhile.
        https://www.wired.com/2016/07/phones-fm-chips-radio-smartphone/

        ...and no you don't need an external antenna or even a pair of wired headphones to act as one. Nokia figured out how to do it 8 years ago.
        Without an antenna, you need to be very close to the FM transmitter.
      • Reply 48 of 153
        sog35 said:
        gatorguy said:
        Good enough reason for me
        wrong.

        The iPhone would also have to have a 2 foot antenna to receive the FM signal.
        I take it you’re not a ham radio operator. Apple can cram a cell antenna inside a 38 mm phone! With proper tuning we can tune a shopping cart or rain gutter to work on HF frequencies. This used to be common during wars for clandestine operation and still used today in areas where restrictive covenants prevent visible antennas. We use antennas disguised as flag masts. I once had a bumper mounted antenna on my car that worked well on the 80 meter band. It was not a quarter wave but it worked well enough. 
      • Reply 49 of 153
        gatorguy said:
        gatorguy said:
        If you live in a hurricane prone area, you should have a hand crank emergency weather radio. How would people in Puerto Rico be powering their iPhones to use as radios when they are mostly without any power anyway? These little radios can be had for like $20 now and they have flashlights, radios, can even crank to charge your smart phone. I guess Apple should also make a crank accessory? Pai is such an idiot.
        Agreed. I live in a hurricane prone area and have gone thru some. Cell phone is useless when the power is out for days on end. Hand crank radio worked perfectly. I’d rather save the limited phone power for texts, assuming towers online. 
        I'm sure you figured out you can charge your phone from your vehicle. ;)
        Useless if your car is flooded, which happened to us with just rains last month here in new orleans, or if there are dangerous winds, debris, etc. No, there is absolutely no substitute for an emergency hand crank radio if you live in a hurricane zone. Unless you just moved there there’s no reason you shouldn’t have one in the closet. The government/Apple can’t be responsible for your failure to invest in the bare minimum of common sense. 
        ...but Apple can be responsible for disabling the working FM in the phone you already had.
        They didn't "disable the working FM in the phone."  They elected not to implement FM reception--which admittedly the chipset they use could support if they chose to implement the rest of the necessary aspects.
        tmay
      • Reply 50 of 153
        gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,288member
        nht said:
        gatorguy said:

        Speaking from recent experience I can say with certainty that having FM enabled on your smartphone is absolutely worthwhile in the event of a public emergency.

        With Hurricane Irma approaching early the next morning we lost power at around 11pm the prior evening. By midnight our internet service was also out. Within another hour or two cell service began failing, lost completely before daybreak. We were lucky having a whole house generator, but our neighbors, some of them quite elderly, not so much. There was no going outside to crank up even a standalone generator with debris flying through the air, blindingly heavy rain, wind gusts already exceeding 60mph. No power and no cell service in the dead of night is a bad thing...
        A whole house generator is about $2500+installation for a 10 KW genset.  That's 3.5 iPhones 8s for the generator...if you can afford an iPhone and live in a hurricane area you had the discretionary income to afford one over time.
        Yes, you clipped of the part of my post where I said that's exactly what I have, a 15kw full-house unit, and since 2004. For anyone considering one be sure to avoid gas-powered and go for propane (preferably) or natural gas. We had let ours go unused for nearly 10 years, but 30 seconds after the power failed it kicked on automatically and ran 4.5 days non-stop, eating about 110 gallons of propane. Had I done the same with a gas-powered one it would have been a no-go, the carb surely clogged and needing a complete rebuild. (full disclosure: I replaced the old non-working starter battery two days beforehand. Otherwise nothing else.)

        Go propane.
        edited September 2017
      • Reply 51 of 153
        Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 4,346administrator
        gatorguy said:
        mike1 said:
        Overly simplistic request to just activate it. Like Apple could push a software update to people with no wifi or cell coverage. Even if he means in the long term, there are several reasons apple may not want to...

        1. They would have to create an entire interface for the FM tuner that doesn't currently exist. In addition, they would need to optimize the performance of the stock FM tuner. Resources would need to be dedicated to this instead of something else.

        2. However, the most important reason would be because the user experience would absolutely suck. There is no FM antenna and therefore would be no reception. People would blame Apple when in reality they can have very little impact on the tuner performance. Just because the chip in the phone has an FM tuner, doesn't mean it's any good to begin with. The hardware would have to be designed to use a headphone (3.5mm or Lightning) as the antenna as it was in the old iPod.Just plugging in a wire does not make an antenna. Don't know how FM signals in particular hinder cell performance, but there is a lot of concern to minimize all Radio Frequency Interference (RFI) in the devices to maximize performance. So, again, hardware would likely need to be designed to implement an FM tuner.

        Not so simple. As others have noted, you can buy a transistor radio for $10 or less and for a few $$$ more, a radio with a hand-crank where batteries would not even be a concern.
        Speaking from recent experience I can say with certainty that having FM enabled on your smartphone is absolutely worthwhile in the event of a public emergency.

        With Hurricane Irma approaching early the next morning we lost power at around 11pm the prior evening. By midnight our internet service was also out. Within another hour or two cell service began failing, lost completely before daybreak. We were lucky having a whole house generator, but our neighbors, some of them quite elderly, not so much. There was no going outside to crank up even a standalone generator with debris flying through the air, blindingly heavy rain, wind gusts already exceeding 60mph. No power and no cell service in the dead of night is a bad thing...

        But those with emergency radios or smartphones with FM enabled, and a lot of folks have them, could still stay abreast of emergency alerts, tornado warnings, and the latest status on the hurricane itself. Almost every smartphone already has an FM radio built-in, tho Apple has chosen to disable theirs. Yes your iPhone already has FM capabilities. AFAICT it would not cost Apple anything more to leave it as a working chip rather than disabling it. This isn't a new issue but something that's been a problem for awhile.
        https://www.wired.com/2016/07/phones-fm-chips-radio-smartphone/

        ...and no you don't need an external antenna or even a pair of wired headphones to act as one. Nokia figured out how to do it 8 years ago.
        For any kind of range, an FM antenna needs to have about two and a half feet of uncharged coil. More is better. With the Nano, it was the headphones in a direct electrical connection through the headphone jack, and the reception wasn't great. The Nokia phones of which you speak had either a 26-inch or 30-inch coil specifically for the radio behind the battery bay.

        That, and they were about 3/4 of an inch thick.

        This isn't a switch to throw, like the FCC chairman said -- and given his job description he should be fully aware. If he's not, then he shouldn't have the job. To get this going, should Apple choose to do so, will need a massive re-engineering effort to accommodate an internal antenna -- and won't be backwards compatible.

        Spend the $10 on a hand-crank radio. Alternatively, buy a $5 one, and $5 of batteries. If you can buy an iPhone, you can probably afford $50 for an emergency kit.
        edited September 2017 tmaystompypscooter63
      • Reply 52 of 153
        gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,288member
        sog35 said:
        gatorguy said:
        gatorguy said:
        If you live in a hurricane prone area, you should have a hand crank emergency weather radio. How would people in Puerto Rico be powering their iPhones to use as radios when they are mostly without any power anyway? These little radios can be had for like $20 now and they have flashlights, radios, can even crank to charge your smart phone. I guess Apple should also make a crank accessory? Pai is such an idiot.
        Agreed. I live in a hurricane prone area and have gone thru some. Cell phone is useless when the power is out for days on end. Hand crank radio worked perfectly. I’d rather save the limited phone power for texts, assuming towers online. 
        I'm sure you figured out you can charge your phone from your vehicle. ;)
        If only vehicles included radios. /s
        I don't think you'll be walking out to your vehicle in blasting rain when tree branches, fence pieces and yard chairs are flying past pushed by 100MPH winds. At least I would assume you're wiser than that.

        Dead of night, no porchlights, no streetlights, no moonlight, the only light a fleeting one when a transformer explodes. You can hear the wind howl, the trees cracking, unknown things hitting your home while you wait and pray that it's not accompanied by tornadoes which are far more likely to rip your roof off than the hurricane. If you've lost all your normal connections to the outside world whether by accident or ignorance that FM chip in your phone could be your best friend for a few hours. 
        Again: Why didn't you have the FM crank radio with you THE NIGHT BEFORE?

        And don't tell me they were sold out.  You should have purchased the FM radio months if not years ago. You live in a high risk Hurricane area.  That's your fault for not being prepared, not Apple.

        This is like blaming Apple that the iPhone does not have a smoke alarm and your house caught on fire but you didn't install smoke alarms.
        I WAS prepared. Well prepared since this was my 5th hurricane. One of my young neighbors was not as he had never experienced a hurricane before. And yes his wife was scared to death when the house went black and phones and internet went out. They were one of the first neighbors I checked on along with two very elderly ones on my street after the sun came up and the rains tapered down enough.
      • Reply 53 of 153
        gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,288member
        gatorguy said:
        mike1 said:
        Overly simplistic request to just activate it. Like Apple could push a software update to people with no wifi or cell coverage. Even if he means in the long term, there are several reasons apple may not want to...

        1. They would have to create an entire interface for the FM tuner that doesn't currently exist. In addition, they would need to optimize the performance of the stock FM tuner. Resources would need to be dedicated to this instead of something else.

        2. However, the most important reason would be because the user experience would absolutely suck. There is no FM antenna and therefore would be no reception. People would blame Apple when in reality they can have very little impact on the tuner performance. Just because the chip in the phone has an FM tuner, doesn't mean it's any good to begin with. The hardware would have to be designed to use a headphone (3.5mm or Lightning) as the antenna as it was in the old iPod.Just plugging in a wire does not make an antenna. Don't know how FM signals in particular hinder cell performance, but there is a lot of concern to minimize all Radio Frequency Interference (RFI) in the devices to maximize performance. So, again, hardware would likely need to be designed to implement an FM tuner.

        Not so simple. As others have noted, you can buy a transistor radio for $10 or less and for a few $$$ more, a radio with a hand-crank where batteries would not even be a concern.
        Speaking from recent experience I can say with certainty that having FM enabled on your smartphone is absolutely worthwhile in the event of a public emergency.

        With Hurricane Irma approaching early the next morning we lost power at around 11pm the prior evening. By midnight our internet service was also out. Within another hour or two cell service began failing, lost completely before daybreak. We were lucky having a whole house generator, but our neighbors, some of them quite elderly, not so much. There was no going outside to crank up even a standalone generator with debris flying through the air, blindingly heavy rain, wind gusts already exceeding 60mph. No power and no cell service in the dead of night is a bad thing...

        But those with emergency radios or smartphones with FM enabled, and a lot of folks have them, could still stay abreast of emergency alerts, tornado warnings, and the latest status on the hurricane itself. Almost every smartphone already has an FM radio built-in, tho Apple has chosen to disable theirs. Yes your iPhone already has FM capabilities. AFAICT it would not cost Apple anything more to leave it as a working chip rather than disabling it. This isn't a new issue but something that's been a problem for awhile.
        https://www.wired.com/2016/07/phones-fm-chips-radio-smartphone/

        ...and no you don't need an external antenna or even a pair of wired headphones to act as one. Nokia figured out how to do it 8 years ago.
        For any kind of range, an FM antenna needs to have about two and a half feet of uncharged coil. More is better. With the Nano, it was the headphones in a direct electrical connection through the headphone jack, and the reception wasn't great. The Nokia phones of which you speak had either a 26-inch or 30-inch coil specifically for the radio behind the battery bay.

        That, and they were about 3/4 of an inch thick.

        This isn't a switch to throw, like the FCC chairman said -- and given his job description he should be fully aware. If he's not, then he shouldn't have the job. To get this going, should Apple choose to do so, will need a massive re-engineering effort to accommodate an internal antenna -- and won't be backwards compatible.

        Spend the $10 on a hand-crank radio. Alternatively, buy a $5 one, and $5 of batteries. If you can buy an iPhone, you can probably afford $50 for an emergency kit.
        Why would Apple have to include a built-in antenna. Don't even newer iPhones without a headphone jack include an adapter for wired headphones? It should work just as well as other smartphones with wired headphones and an FM chip that ISN'T disabled.
        edited September 2017
      • Reply 54 of 153
        Apple would never do what the FCC Chairman Pai urge Apple to do!  It would take away some of Apple music streaming business revenue and cellular companies data usage revenue!  Apple is all about maximizing profit!  
        Which is why they included a mini-jack to lightning connector adapter for free. Sigh...

      • Reply 55 of 153
        If you live in a hurricane prone area, you should have a hand crank emergency weather radio. How would people in Puerto Rico be powering their iPhones to use as radios when they are mostly without any power anyway? These little radios can be had for like $20 now and they have flashlights, radios, can even crank to charge your smart phone. I guess Apple should also make a crank accessory? Pai is such an idiot.
        What are you, some kind of a bigot to ask people to be responsible about their own lives and stuff?
        edited September 2017 tallest skil
      • Reply 56 of 153
        gatorguy said:
        sog35 said:
        gatorguy said:
        mike1 said:
        Overly simplistic request to just activate it. Like Apple could push a software update to people with no wifi or cell coverage. Even if he means in the long term, there are several reasons apple may not want to...

        1. They would have to create an entire interface for the FM tuner that doesn't currently exist. In addition, they would need to optimize the performance of the stock FM tuner. Resources would need to be dedicated to this instead of something else.

        2. However, the most important reason would be because the user experience would absolutely suck. There is no FM antenna and therefore would be no reception. People would blame Apple when in reality they can have very little impact on the tuner performance. Just because the chip in the phone has an FM tuner, doesn't mean it's any good to begin with. The hardware would have to be designed to use a headphone (3.5mm or Lightning) as the antenna as it was in the old iPod.Just plugging in a wire does not make an antenna. Don't know how FM signals in particular hinder cell performance, but there is a lot of concern to minimize all Radio Frequency Interference (RFI) in the devices to maximize performance. So, again, hardware would likely need to be designed to implement an FM tuner.

        Not so simple. As others have noted, you can buy a transistor radio for $10 or less and for a few $$$ more, a radio with a hand-crank where batteries would not even be a concern.
        Speaking from recent experience I can say with certainty that having FM enabled on your smartphone is absolutely worthwhile in the event of a public emergency.

        With Hurricane Irma approaching early the next morning we lost power at around 11pm the prior evening. By midnight our internet service was also out. Within another hour or two cell service began failing, lost completely before daybreak. We were lucky having a whole house generator, but our neighbors, some of them quite elderly, not so much. There was no going outside to crank up even a standalone generator with debris flying through the air, blindingly heavy rain, wind gusts already exceeding 60mph. No power and no cell service in the dead of night is a bad thing...

        But those with emergency radios or smartphones with FM enabled, and a lot of folks have them, could still stay abreast of emergency alerts, tornado warnings, and the latest status on the hurricane itself. Almost every smartphone already has an FM radio built-in, tho Apple has chosen to disable theirs. Yes your iPhone already has FM capabilities. AFAICT it would not cost Apple anything more to leave it as a working chip rather than disabling it. This isn't a new issue but something that's been a problem for awhile.
        https://www.wired.com/2016/07/phones-fm-chips-radio-smartphone/
        why wouldn't you have a crank FM radio with you the night before?  Its not like it was a surprise a  hurricane was coming. You a couple days notice it was likely to hit.
        You didn't actually read what I wrote did you? I had things covered, tho it's not cheap. 

        As far as "why wouldn't you buy a crank radio two days in advance": The shelves were emptied of them more than two days in advance.
        You are supposed to get that stuff half a year in advance. You get it, you maintain it and make sure it works (like starting a generator once-twice a month to make sure it is alive). Getting that stuff when shit is already hitting the fan would be a bit too late.
        edited September 2017
      • Reply 57 of 153
        gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,288member
        gatorguy said:
        sog35 said:
        gatorguy said:
        mike1 said:
        Overly simplistic request to just activate it. Like Apple could push a software update to people with no wifi or cell coverage. Even if he means in the long term, there are several reasons apple may not want to...

        1. They would have to create an entire interface for the FM tuner that doesn't currently exist. In addition, they would need to optimize the performance of the stock FM tuner. Resources would need to be dedicated to this instead of something else.

        2. However, the most important reason would be because the user experience would absolutely suck. There is no FM antenna and therefore would be no reception. People would blame Apple when in reality they can have very little impact on the tuner performance. Just because the chip in the phone has an FM tuner, doesn't mean it's any good to begin with. The hardware would have to be designed to use a headphone (3.5mm or Lightning) as the antenna as it was in the old iPod.Just plugging in a wire does not make an antenna. Don't know how FM signals in particular hinder cell performance, but there is a lot of concern to minimize all Radio Frequency Interference (RFI) in the devices to maximize performance. So, again, hardware would likely need to be designed to implement an FM tuner.

        Not so simple. As others have noted, you can buy a transistor radio for $10 or less and for a few $$$ more, a radio with a hand-crank where batteries would not even be a concern.
        Speaking from recent experience I can say with certainty that having FM enabled on your smartphone is absolutely worthwhile in the event of a public emergency.

        With Hurricane Irma approaching early the next morning we lost power at around 11pm the prior evening. By midnight our internet service was also out. Within another hour or two cell service began failing, lost completely before daybreak. We were lucky having a whole house generator, but our neighbors, some of them quite elderly, not so much. There was no going outside to crank up even a standalone generator with debris flying through the air, blindingly heavy rain, wind gusts already exceeding 60mph. No power and no cell service in the dead of night is a bad thing...

        But those with emergency radios or smartphones with FM enabled, and a lot of folks have them, could still stay abreast of emergency alerts, tornado warnings, and the latest status on the hurricane itself. Almost every smartphone already has an FM radio built-in, tho Apple has chosen to disable theirs. Yes your iPhone already has FM capabilities. AFAICT it would not cost Apple anything more to leave it as a working chip rather than disabling it. This isn't a new issue but something that's been a problem for awhile.
        https://www.wired.com/2016/07/phones-fm-chips-radio-smartphone/
        why wouldn't you have a crank FM radio with you the night before?  Its not like it was a surprise a  hurricane was coming. You a couple days notice it was likely to hit.
        You didn't actually read what I wrote did you? I had things covered, tho it's not cheap. 

        As far as "why wouldn't you buy a crank radio two days in advance": The shelves were emptied of them more than two days in advance.
        They were supposed to get that stuff half a year in advance. You get it, you maintain it and make sure it works (like starting a generator once-twice a month to make sure it is alive). Getting that stuff when shit is already hitting the fan would be a bit too late.
        This is Florida, a state that hadn't seen a major hurricane event in almost 15 years.

        Many of the current residents had no idea what was needed gear for one. Some only very recently moved to the state. Many are only visitors, vacationeers, or part-time residents. Some are college students experiencing life on their (kinda sorta) own for the first time in their lives. Even many longtime natives got complacent in a decade and a half of no storms.

        But even disasters aside it's not unheard of for me personally to find myself in a cell deadzone and under troubling skies.
      • Reply 58 of 153
        Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 4,346administrator
        gatorguy said:
        gatorguy said:
        mike1 said:
        Overly simplistic request to just activate it. Like Apple could push a software update to people with no wifi or cell coverage. Even if he means in the long term, there are several reasons apple may not want to...

        1. They would have to create an entire interface for the FM tuner that doesn't currently exist. In addition, they would need to optimize the performance of the stock FM tuner. Resources would need to be dedicated to this instead of something else.

        2. However, the most important reason would be because the user experience would absolutely suck. There is no FM antenna and therefore would be no reception. People would blame Apple when in reality they can have very little impact on the tuner performance. Just because the chip in the phone has an FM tuner, doesn't mean it's any good to begin with. The hardware would have to be designed to use a headphone (3.5mm or Lightning) as the antenna as it was in the old iPod.Just plugging in a wire does not make an antenna. Don't know how FM signals in particular hinder cell performance, but there is a lot of concern to minimize all Radio Frequency Interference (RFI) in the devices to maximize performance. So, again, hardware would likely need to be designed to implement an FM tuner.

        Not so simple. As others have noted, you can buy a transistor radio for $10 or less and for a few $$$ more, a radio with a hand-crank where batteries would not even be a concern.
        Speaking from recent experience I can say with certainty that having FM enabled on your smartphone is absolutely worthwhile in the event of a public emergency.

        With Hurricane Irma approaching early the next morning we lost power at around 11pm the prior evening. By midnight our internet service was also out. Within another hour or two cell service began failing, lost completely before daybreak. We were lucky having a whole house generator, but our neighbors, some of them quite elderly, not so much. There was no going outside to crank up even a standalone generator with debris flying through the air, blindingly heavy rain, wind gusts already exceeding 60mph. No power and no cell service in the dead of night is a bad thing...

        But those with emergency radios or smartphones with FM enabled, and a lot of folks have them, could still stay abreast of emergency alerts, tornado warnings, and the latest status on the hurricane itself. Almost every smartphone already has an FM radio built-in, tho Apple has chosen to disable theirs. Yes your iPhone already has FM capabilities. AFAICT it would not cost Apple anything more to leave it as a working chip rather than disabling it. This isn't a new issue but something that's been a problem for awhile.
        https://www.wired.com/2016/07/phones-fm-chips-radio-smartphone/

        ...and no you don't need an external antenna or even a pair of wired headphones to act as one. Nokia figured out how to do it 8 years ago.
        For any kind of range, an FM antenna needs to have about two and a half feet of uncharged coil. More is better. With the Nano, it was the headphones in a direct electrical connection through the headphone jack, and the reception wasn't great. The Nokia phones of which you speak had either a 26-inch or 30-inch coil specifically for the radio behind the battery bay.

        That, and they were about 3/4 of an inch thick.

        This isn't a switch to throw, like the FCC chairman said -- and given his job description he should be fully aware. If he's not, then he shouldn't have the job. To get this going, should Apple choose to do so, will need a massive re-engineering effort to accommodate an internal antenna -- and won't be backwards compatible.

        Spend the $10 on a hand-crank radio. Alternatively, buy a $5 one, and $5 of batteries. If you can buy an iPhone, you can probably afford $50 for an emergency kit.
        Why would Apple have to include a built-in antenna. Don't even newer iPhones without a headphone jack include an adapter for wired headphones? It should work just as well as other smartphones with wired headphones and an FM chip that ISN'T disabled.
        It's a Lightning adapter with a digital to analog converter in it. It isn't as simple as a simple electrical connection to allow for the antenna and would require a re-work of the Lightning standard to accommodate that.

        Besides, Apple has already responded. The chip in the 7 and 8 don't have a FM radio-compatible chip anyway, making most of this thread moot. See the article's update.
        edited September 2017 pscooter63
      • Reply 59 of 153
        gatorguy said:
        gatorguy said:
        sog35 said:
        gatorguy said:
        mike1 said:
        Overly simplistic request to just activate it. Like Apple could push a software update to people with no wifi or cell coverage. Even if he means in the long term, there are several reasons apple may not want to...

        1. They would have to create an entire interface for the FM tuner that doesn't currently exist. In addition, they would need to optimize the performance of the stock FM tuner. Resources would need to be dedicated to this instead of something else.

        2. However, the most important reason would be because the user experience would absolutely suck. There is no FM antenna and therefore would be no reception. People would blame Apple when in reality they can have very little impact on the tuner performance. Just because the chip in the phone has an FM tuner, doesn't mean it's any good to begin with. The hardware would have to be designed to use a headphone (3.5mm or Lightning) as the antenna as it was in the old iPod.Just plugging in a wire does not make an antenna. Don't know how FM signals in particular hinder cell performance, but there is a lot of concern to minimize all Radio Frequency Interference (RFI) in the devices to maximize performance. So, again, hardware would likely need to be designed to implement an FM tuner.

        Not so simple. As others have noted, you can buy a transistor radio for $10 or less and for a few $$$ more, a radio with a hand-crank where batteries would not even be a concern.
        Speaking from recent experience I can say with certainty that having FM enabled on your smartphone is absolutely worthwhile in the event of a public emergency.

        With Hurricane Irma approaching early the next morning we lost power at around 11pm the prior evening. By midnight our internet service was also out. Within another hour or two cell service began failing, lost completely before daybreak. We were lucky having a whole house generator, but our neighbors, some of them quite elderly, not so much. There was no going outside to crank up even a standalone generator with debris flying through the air, blindingly heavy rain, wind gusts already exceeding 60mph. No power and no cell service in the dead of night is a bad thing...

        But those with emergency radios or smartphones with FM enabled, and a lot of folks have them, could still stay abreast of emergency alerts, tornado warnings, and the latest status on the hurricane itself. Almost every smartphone already has an FM radio built-in, tho Apple has chosen to disable theirs. Yes your iPhone already has FM capabilities. AFAICT it would not cost Apple anything more to leave it as a working chip rather than disabling it. This isn't a new issue but something that's been a problem for awhile.
        https://www.wired.com/2016/07/phones-fm-chips-radio-smartphone/
        why wouldn't you have a crank FM radio with you the night before?  Its not like it was a surprise a  hurricane was coming. You a couple days notice it was likely to hit.
        You didn't actually read what I wrote did you? I had things covered, tho it's not cheap. 

        As far as "why wouldn't you buy a crank radio two days in advance": The shelves were emptied of them more than two days in advance.
        They were supposed to get that stuff half a year in advance. You get it, you maintain it and make sure it works (like starting a generator once-twice a month to make sure it is alive). Getting that stuff when shit is already hitting the fan would be a bit too late.
        This is Florida, a state that hadn't seen a major hurricane event in almost 15 years.

        Many of the current residents had no idea what was needed gear for one. Some only very recently moved to the state.
        When I moved to Oklahoma I made sure I understood what to do and was ready for a tornado. How many times tornado hit the place where I lived? 0 times.
        edited September 2017
      • Reply 60 of 153
        tmaytmay Posts: 3,567member
        Apple would never do what the FCC Chairman Pai urge Apple to do!  It would take away some of Apple music streaming business revenue and cellular companies data usage revenue!  Apple is all about maximizing profit!  
        Which is why they included a mini-jack to lightning connector adapter for free. Sigh...

        I'm not an RF guy, but there's a hell of a lot of difference between a Lightning connection and a 3.5 mm headphone jack; I'm thinking that Lightning, a digital connection, won't pass an analog signal from an antenna.

        If Apple didn't put in an FM antenna in the iPhone, then their is no possibility of adding one externally, and no turning on the capability in the modem. No story here, other than the FCC getting legislation requiring Apple to install an FM antenna and activate any FM capability in the modem
        edited September 2017
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