FCC chairman urges Apple to activate FM radios in iPhones in light of recent disasters [u]...

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  • Reply 121 of 153
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 4,753administrator
     So what about devices prior to iPhone 7, Apple?!
    STILL NO FM ANTENNA. 

    This has never been a switch to throw, regardless of what the FCC chairman says.
  • Reply 122 of 153
    zoetmbzoetmb Posts: 2,469member
    "When wireless networks go down during a natural disaster, smartphones with activated FM chips can allow Americans to get vital access to life-saving information," Pai wrote. "I applaud those companies that have done the right thing by activating the FM chips in their phones."

    Apple should "step up to the plate and put the safety of the American people first," he concluded. Pai has previously refused to make FM support mandatory, but has also advocated for inclusion.
    Multiple objectionable points here regarding Pai. This is the same guy that has given ISP's the go ahead to track all of our online activity and hasn't made choices that is in the best interest of individuals, but corporations. With this in mind, what would be the security and privacy implication of enabling those chips? I'm in the West Coast and stay away from the East during hurricane season. Therefore, it doesn't bother me and tens of millions to have it disabled. I could be wrong, but it just feels like another Government excuse (as was with the San Bernardino shooting) to use human tragedy as a means of widespread invasion of individuals privacy and security. Therefore, my question lays - I hope Apple doesn't make choices based on emotion.
        You think an FM radio chip which is not a transmitter, but only a receiver is a government invasion of privacy?    That's too bad because with your tin-foil hat, you'd probably get pretty good reception.    
      • Reply 123 of 153

        zoetmb said:
        maestro64 said:

        That is why they still make battery operated radios and it is called the Emergency Broadcast Network.

        Even if the chip was activated, it assumes someone had an app loaded on the phone which could access radio stations. Why not just use the amber alert system. Oh is that because the cell tower were not working, if they were not working how does someone down load the app then.

        This is typical government solutions to a problems which is you can not fix stupid. Not to say everyone is stupid in this case, even my kids have no idea what the Emergency Broadcast Network is and know to tune into the radio.  The one and only time we heard the test on the radio my kids had no idea what it was about and why it was even needed. I hardly hear radio stations even testing it anymore.

        If people have no ideal they are suppose to listen to the radio during an emergency, what make the FCC think people would listen on their cell phones.

        During an emergence you want to keep it simple, a radio will work in most all weather conditions and a battery operated radio will work for days non-stop.

        Your logic is completely flawed.   People would download the app BEFORE an emergency or the app would be built into the phone, so the cell tower being down would be a moot point. 
        maestro's logic isn't nearly as flawed as yours.  If people prepared for disasters (by and large they don't) there would be no need for FM capable handsets.

        A few years back I went through an ice storm for the second time in 20 years.  I lost electric power (in a large city) for 5 - 6 days each time.  After the second event I installed a gas powered electric generator that produces 40 amps/hour, enough to run just about everything in my house if I'm careful about what I turn on.  Total cost was less than $3000.  The only thing about the system I don't like is that even with a stabilizer I must cycle out my reserve gasoline supply (two 5 gallon containers) every other year.

        My point is that I have prepared (belatedly) for 20 year events.  Along the Gulf and East coasts MULTIPLE hurricanes are an annual event.  When an emergency radio (with extra batteries) costs less than $20, just how stupid can you be to not prepare for that?


        This is not a political statement.

        This is really the difference between people who live in cities and those who do not. I Originally lived in the city and parent move to the country, the edge of the suburbs. You had to learn to be self sufficient and defend for yourself, and the government is not always going to be there to help you pick things up. We always had a generator, and other things to make sure we can survive during bad weather and such. Because of this I still have a generate at my house and only used it twice in 25 yrs. The first time, I was the only house in the neighborhood with power. A few neighbors call us and asked up how we go out power back on. Most recently, most everyone now has generators and you can hear them running all night, they have not figured out to turn it off when you go to bed why waste gas, but they will learn. My parents and my family has been through a number of nature disasters, Flood, wind storm, Tornados, Ice storms, Snow storms,  and I was in the 89 Earth Quake in northern Calf. and every time we fended for ourselves did not wait for the Calvary to charge in.

        On the other hand those in city scream and yell about how the government let them down and government needs to do more. I was actually happy to hear the Governors of FL and TX telling people the Government was not coming to save them if they choose to ignore the their advise.

        The biggest difference I've seen recently when you look at Texas, as compared to New Orleans, FL and NJ when the hurricane hit and cause damage. Texans began cleaning up as soon as the water dropped. I saw pictures and videos of people gutting their houses the first day back in their home. They did not wait for the government to come around and tell them what to do. There are neighborhood in Texas with streets filled with personal belongs sheet rock and other house hold items. These home are ready to be rebuilt. Anyone can gut their home and does not cost anything, so you do not need to wait for the insurance companies checks. There are still homes in New Orlean which have not been repaired in 12 yrs. Why because those people ran away because the government did not fix it for them.


        edited September 2017 tallest skil
      • Reply 124 of 153
        gatorguy said:
        stompy said:
        I have one in an emergency backpack sitting by my back door.
        You must not have teenage kids. Tthe first one I bought and kept in a hurricane kit disappeared, with my son begrudgingly admitting to "borrowing" it for an ATV off-road trip. He thinks might have left it in someone else's truck. Or out on the trail somewhere. "Dad, you never use it anyway. What's the big deal? I'll get you another one if you'll stop yelling?"

        So I bought another "after-the fact" ( and fortunately a false alarm) a couple years ago. Had I needed it tho it would not have been there.  :(
        I do, actually. When I got it, I let them play with it as much as they wanted, charging their phones, playing with the radio and flashlight. They eventually got bored with it, and discovered that it takes a while to charge a phone. I got the peace of mind of knowing that it was usable and 100% functional. :)
      • Reply 125 of 153
        tmay said:
        trumptman said:
        tmay said:
        trumptman said:
        Apple can state that current iPhones may not have to capability for FM bit it clearly isn't something expensive or hard to engineer into future phones and it should be done.

        Many instances where the access to services is restricted, it stinks of a pure power and money grab.

        So there is the emergency services area to consider but also the fact that many of our complaints are with regulated monopolies that control public property and make billions off it. This could be public right of way access for cable television and internet access, public airways for satellite television, public over the air television stations and radio stations.

        Apple showed their own wisdom here when the forced carriers to take the iPhone without controlling items on the iPhone. The carriers tried to use control of one area (cell networks) to control another area (cell phones). Phones should be to access FM radio rather than just streaming.

        You are talking to a guy that has a generator. Has several stand alone radios that can run 100 hours on two AA batteries.

        I'd love to see the government clean up our access to over the air television and force some better programming there. It would be so nice to have what is available in places like the U.K with DTT aka Freeview.

        Right now they keep locking away abilities behind payments. Stream your music if you have enough data. Stream your television if you have a service and home internet (which they are trying to cap in areas where there is no competition.) 

        VCR's didn't require permission to record a program off the television. We could have phones that stream and get FM. We could have televisions that have good programming over the air and via the internet.

        More is better and in this case safer. It is just mandating access to what you already own, the public airways.
        No iPhone has ever had FM capability. Apple has sold over a billion of them. I'm guessing that nobody missed it.

        Really would be stupid to add it now to solve a problem best solved in other ways. But if legislation is the answer, then how about something more useful than FM radio.
        tmay said:
        trumptman said:
        Apple can state that current iPhones may not have to capability for FM bit it clearly isn't something expensive or hard to engineer into future phones and it should be done.

        Many instances where the access to services is restricted, it stinks of a pure power and money grab.

        So there is the emergency services area to consider but also the fact that many of our complaints are with regulated monopolies that control public property and make billions off it. This could be public right of way access for cable television and internet access, public airways for satellite television, public over the air television stations and radio stations.

        Apple showed their own wisdom here when the forced carriers to take the iPhone without controlling items on the iPhone. The carriers tried to use control of one area (cell networks) to control another area (cell phones). Phones should be to access FM radio rather than just streaming.

        You are talking to a guy that has a generator. Has several stand alone radios that can run 100 hours on two AA batteries.

        I'd love to see the government clean up our access to over the air television and force some better programming there. It would be so nice to have what is available in places like the U.K with DTT aka Freeview.

        Right now they keep locking away abilities behind payments. Stream your music if you have enough data. Stream your television if you have a service and home internet (which they are trying to cap in areas where there is no competition.) 

        VCR's didn't require permission to record a program off the television. We could have phones that stream and get FM. We could have televisions that have good programming over the air and via the internet.

        More is better and in this case safer. It is just mandating access to what you already own, the public airways.
        No iPhone has ever had FM capability. Apple has sold over a billion of them. I'm guessing that nobody missed it.

        Really would be stupid to add it now to solve a problem best solved in other ways. But if legislation is the answer, then how about something more useful than FM radio.
        No iPhone had facial recognition until Apple added it. No iPhone had fingerprint recognition until Apple added it. That reasoning is a bit inane. Plus this isn't some expensive or cutting edge feature. 

        Also it isn't that legislation is the answer in THIS particular case. The FCC already controls every radio frequency the phone receives for cellular service, for wifi, etc. The iPhone is required to be certified in order to even be sold. This isn't some area where the control is 99% private and the government is encroaching. All the airwaves are 100% public controlled. Mandating FM reception is no different than every other way the phone is mandated to work with regard to radio frequencies. 
        The FCC hasn't mandated it.

        Maybe they will, but FM doesn't look like that great a solution for emergencies anyway as it isn't two way communication.

        Really you're advocating a two way EBS, we have that it is call 911, go talk to those people when less than true emergency situation exist, they get people calling asking for help finding their lost cat or could someone come and clean the snow off their car. I am assuming you never played with a CB radio, do you know what happens when everyone tries to talk at once. There is a reason the EBS is one way, it is the governments way of telling people what to do, they are not interested in hearing people whine and complain.
      • Reply 126 of 153
        trumptman said:
        Apple can state that current iPhones may not have to capability for FM bit it clearly isn't something expensive or hard to engineer into future phones and it should be done.

        Many instances where the access to services is restricted, it stinks of a pure power and money grab.

        So there is the emergency services area to consider but also the fact that many of our complaints are with regulated monopolies that control public property and make billions off it. This could be public right of way access for cable television and internet access, public airways for satellite television, public over the air television stations and radio stations.

        Apple showed their own wisdom here when the forced carriers to take the iPhone without controlling items on the iPhone. The carriers tried to use control of one area (cell networks) to control another area (cell phones). Phones should be to access FM radio rather than just streaming.

        You are talking to a guy that has a generator. Has several stand alone radios that can run 100 hours on two AA batteries.

        I'd love to see the government clean up our access to over the air television and force some better programming there. It would be so nice to have what is available in places like the U.K with DTT aka Freeview.

        Right now they keep locking away abilities behind payments. Stream your music if you have enough data. Stream your television if you have a service and home internet (which they are trying to cap in areas where there is no competition.) 

        VCR's didn't require permission to record a program off the television. We could have phones that stream and get FM. We could have televisions that have good programming over the air and via the internet.

        More is better and in this case safer. It is just mandating access to what you already own, the public airways.

        Now you want the government controlling content like the UK, by the way it is not free in the UK , there is an antenna license fee they have to pay to get content over the air. You do know in the US all the major networks still broadcast over the air in HD, and for a $50 investment you can watch everything they have over the air to your hears content. Also I believe major networks have top rated content.

        There is not requirement to stream content today, most all content is available via other delivery methods, so I am not sure what you mean it is lock out or limited.

      • Reply 127 of 153
        SoliSoli Posts: 9,176member
        Remember when Apple couldn't make it in this market because the Japanese was so far ahead with their overly complex feature phones.


        GG1tallest skilpscooter63
      • Reply 128 of 153
        k2kw said:
        gatorguy said:
        sog35 said:
        gatorguy said:
        gatorguy said:
        If you live in a hurricane prone area, you should have a hand crank emergency weather radio. How would people in Puerto Rico be powering their iPhones to use as radios when they are mostly without any power anyway? These little radios can be had for like $20 now and they have flashlights, radios, can even crank to charge your smart phone. I guess Apple should also make a crank accessory? Pai is such an idiot.
        Agreed. I live in a hurricane prone area and have gone thru some. Cell phone is useless when the power is out for days on end. Hand crank radio worked perfectly. I’d rather save the limited phone power for texts, assuming towers online. 
        I'm sure you figured out you can charge your phone from your vehicle. ;)
        If only vehicles included radios. /s
        I don't think you'll be walking out to your vehicle in blasting rain when tree branches, fence pieces and yard chairs are flying past pushed by 100MPH winds. At least I would assume you're wiser than that.

        Dead of night, no porchlights, no streetlights, no moonlight, the only light a fleeting one when a transformer explodes. You can hear the wind howl, the trees cracking, unknown things hitting your home while you wait and pray that it's not accompanied by tornadoes which are far more likely to rip your roof off than the hurricane. If you've lost all your normal connections to the outside world whether by accident or ignorance that FM chip in your phone could be your best friend for a few hours. 
        Again: Why didn't you have the FM crank radio with you THE NIGHT BEFORE?

        And don't tell me they were sold out.  You should have purchased the FM radio months if not years ago. You live in a high risk Hurricane area.  That's your fault for not being prepared, not Apple.

        This is like blaming Apple that the iPhone does not have a smoke alarm and your house caught on fire but you didn't install smoke alarms.
        I WAS prepared. Well prepared since this was my 5th hurricane. One of my young neighbors was not as he had never experienced a hurricane before. And yes his wife was scared to death when the house went black and phones and internet went out. They were one of the first neighbors I checked on along with two very elderly ones on my street after the sun came up and the rains tapered down enough.

        I was able to find every thing I needed (plywood, water, food) by the Wednesday before Irma but couldn't find D Batteries for my radio. I think requiring radio support is great so I've already sent an email to Senators Rubio and Nelson to pass a law requiring it. Maybe apple can "Innovate" and come up with a solution or put the headphone jack back- "Courage"
        Batteries last 10 years, maybe the courage is getting to the store and buying some. 
        Also you do realize the damn phone needs power too huh. Can’t be bothered to get a 10 year lasting battery but somehow your phone will be charged and last days.  Buy a cheap radio , or even 4 and leave the phone as is.
      • Reply 129 of 153
        gatorguy said:
        foggyhill said:
        Soli said:
        Simple:

        No 1/8” headphone jack = no external antenna capability for FM.

        Even non smartphone “Walkman” style radios require your wired headphones to also serve as an FM antenna.

        Lightning port probably can’t serve the same purpose due to it being a “digital” port at all times. Also explains the 2016 cut off…
        But doesn't the headphone adapter and the included headphones have to convert digital to analog at some point along the cable which would then allow for a minimal FM antenna? I really don't see how a 1/8" headphone jack is somehow required for the physics to work when we're still talking about an analog antenna.
        The antenna signal needs to get to the receiver to be of use. The current discontinuity means it isn't going to work.
        The current A/D I think occurs in the earpods, that's a pretty short antenna...

        Good grief, a FM receiver can be bought for what $2-3...Then you can string cables for there to your roof if you want reception. This will never happen with the Iphone the way it is now and doing it would be senseless. Pai is a MORON.

        I could build my own radio from a radio shack kit at 10 in the 1970s. It's so ridiculously cheap and works on little power. the Speakers are what takes the most power but you can forgo that and plug and earphone straight on the board. A good 9volt could then last many days. Buy a few and last many weeks.
        The goal here is not high fidelity, but info after all hey BOZO Pai.
        Spot on. Go buy a radio and store it away somewhere. In a few years when you need it go find it. It's there. Someplace. Perhaps in the rubble. Don't rely on that smartphone you always have with you. That would be stupid. 
        /s



        It's unfair that Apple may not be allowed to sell the latest iPhones in Mexico, and perhaps soon too in Canada, because of this ignorant idea of FM in a smartphone.
        (EDIT: Added link discussing the Mexican law http://www.insideradio.com/free/mexico-is-first-country-to-require-fm-chip-activation/article_4a6e2a4e-4cd5-11e7-a834-cbb238541a35.html )

        But perhaps they planned for this eventuality since it's been a push underway since at least 2012. Assuming it's accurate that the Qualcomm modem chips Apple is currently using no longer have the typically built-in FM turner as supplied to other OEM's then I will guess that will be their way of working around the law. Make sure it's not there so that they can't be obligated to enable it. Might work. 

        They FCC Director has no clue either, I was in the 89 Earthquake in Northern Calif, and there was limited cellphone, but we all had regular land line phones, and guess what everyone was using their phones and brought the phone system to its knees. It is no deferent, cell phones did not create a new situation. In this case the issue was not people in Calif, but everyone outside Calif calling in. My parent got through initially since they had AT&T for long distance and AT&T pull back all their lines from all the other carriers and no one else could get through then my parent could not get through for 2 days, Finally the Government got on the TV and told everyone to stay off the phones since it was causing the emergency services issues since they too could get calls through. The same thing happen during 911, the entire cell phone network came down in NYC as well as the phone lines, and emergency service radios system were over whelmed since they could not use phones or cell phones. At that time they never thought to use the EBS. 
      • Reply 130 of 153
        gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,894member
        foggyhill said:
        k2kw said:
        gatorguy said:
        sog35 said:
        gatorguy said:
        gatorguy said:
        If you live in a hurricane prone area, you should have a hand crank emergency weather radio. How would people in Puerto Rico be powering their iPhones to use as radios when they are mostly without any power anyway? These little radios can be had for like $20 now and they have flashlights, radios, can even crank to charge your smart phone. I guess Apple should also make a crank accessory? Pai is such an idiot.
        Agreed. I live in a hurricane prone area and have gone thru some. Cell phone is useless when the power is out for days on end. Hand crank radio worked perfectly. I’d rather save the limited phone power for texts, assuming towers online. 
        I'm sure you figured out you can charge your phone from your vehicle. ;)
        If only vehicles included radios. /s
        I don't think you'll be walking out to your vehicle in blasting rain when tree branches, fence pieces and yard chairs are flying past pushed by 100MPH winds. At least I would assume you're wiser than that.

        Dead of night, no porchlights, no streetlights, no moonlight, the only light a fleeting one when a transformer explodes. You can hear the wind howl, the trees cracking, unknown things hitting your home while you wait and pray that it's not accompanied by tornadoes which are far more likely to rip your roof off than the hurricane. If you've lost all your normal connections to the outside world whether by accident or ignorance that FM chip in your phone could be your best friend for a few hours. 
        Again: Why didn't you have the FM crank radio with you THE NIGHT BEFORE?

        And don't tell me they were sold out.  You should have purchased the FM radio months if not years ago. You live in a high risk Hurricane area.  That's your fault for not being prepared, not Apple.

        This is like blaming Apple that the iPhone does not have a smoke alarm and your house caught on fire but you didn't install smoke alarms.
        I WAS prepared. Well prepared since this was my 5th hurricane. One of my young neighbors was not as he had never experienced a hurricane before. And yes his wife was scared to death when the house went black and phones and internet went out. They were one of the first neighbors I checked on along with two very elderly ones on my street after the sun came up and the rains tapered down enough.

        I was able to find every thing I needed (plywood, water, food) by the Wednesday before Irma but couldn't find D Batteries for my radio. I think requiring radio support is great so I've already sent an email to Senators Rubio and Nelson to pass a law requiring it. Maybe apple can "Innovate" and come up with a solution or put the headphone jack back- "Courage"
        Batteries last 10 years, maybe the courage is getting to the store and buying some. 
        Also you do realize the damn phone needs power too huh. Can’t be bothered to get a 10 year lasting battery but somehow your phone will be charged and last days.  Buy a cheap radio , or even 4 and leave the phone as is.
        Why are you so opposed to it? If Apple were to decide to do so (and I don't see them doing it but surprises happen) for user safety reasons, or "saving us from our own stupidity", or demand for it from some Apple markets or whatever, how would you be harmed? There's certainly beneficial use cases for FM capabilities even if some folks think they are minor ones, but I don't see what the big downside is that's got you so angry about it.


        edited September 2017
      • Reply 131 of 153
        k2kw said:
        gatorguy said:
        sog35 said:
        gatorguy said:
        gatorguy said:
        If you live in a hurricane prone area, you should have a hand crank emergency weather radio. How would people in Puerto Rico be powering their iPhones to use as radios when they are mostly without any power anyway? These little radios can be had for like $20 now and they have flashlights, radios, can even crank to charge your smart phone. I guess Apple should also make a crank accessory? Pai is such an idiot.
        Agreed. I live in a hurricane prone area and have gone thru some. Cell phone is useless when the power is out for days on end. Hand crank radio worked perfectly. I’d rather save the limited phone power for texts, assuming towers online. 
        I'm sure you figured out you can charge your phone from your vehicle. ;)
        If only vehicles included radios. /s
        I don't think you'll be walking out to your vehicle in blasting rain when tree branches, fence pieces and yard chairs are flying past pushed by 100MPH winds. At least I would assume you're wiser than that.

        Dead of night, no porchlights, no streetlights, no moonlight, the only light a fleeting one when a transformer explodes. You can hear the wind howl, the trees cracking, unknown things hitting your home while you wait and pray that it's not accompanied by tornadoes which are far more likely to rip your roof off than the hurricane. If you've lost all your normal connections to the outside world whether by accident or ignorance that FM chip in your phone could be your best friend for a few hours. 
        Again: Why didn't you have the FM crank radio with you THE NIGHT BEFORE?

        And don't tell me they were sold out.  You should have purchased the FM radio months if not years ago. You live in a high risk Hurricane area.  That's your fault for not being prepared, not Apple.

        This is like blaming Apple that the iPhone does not have a smoke alarm and your house caught on fire but you didn't install smoke alarms.
        I WAS prepared. Well prepared since this was my 5th hurricane. One of my young neighbors was not as he had never experienced a hurricane before. And yes his wife was scared to death when the house went black and phones and internet went out. They were one of the first neighbors I checked on along with two very elderly ones on my street after the sun came up and the rains tapered down enough.

        I was able to find every thing I needed (plywood, water, food) by the Wednesday before Irma but couldn't find D Batteries for my radio. I think requiring radio support is great so I've already sent an email to Senators Rubio and Nelson to pass a law requiring it. Maybe apple can "Innovate" and come up with a solution or put the headphone jack back- "Courage"
        We do not need anymore laws from the Nanny State. People just need to be responsible for themselves. If you ever listen to the information provide on the EBS it is common sense things, like stay indoors, stay away from windows, do not touch down wires (which people do all the time and die) They are not providing information which is completely obvious if you though about it. As person who has been through a number of natural disasters, I only listen once to the EBS a long time ago and after 5 minutes you learn everything you need to know. They just keep repeating the same thing over and over again. They are not providing minute by minute tactical updates,  
      • Reply 132 of 153
        k2kw said:
        rrrob said:
        gatorguy said:
        tmay said:
        tmay said:
        Apple would never do what the FCC Chairman Pai urge Apple to do!  It would take away some of Apple music streaming business revenue and cellular companies data usage revenue!  Apple is all about maximizing profit!  
        Which is why they included a mini-jack to lightning connector adapter for free. Sigh...

        I'm not an RF guy, but there's a hell of a lot of difference between a Lightning connection and a 3.5 mm headphone jack; I'm thinking that Lightning, a digital connection, won't pass an analog signal from an antenna.
        I'm buzzword compliant on RF matters -- and can confirm your suspicion that there is a giant difference.
        removed post, thanks for Apple statement update.
        Yes I appreciate it too. That's new information. I would be curious tho why the Qualcomm chips Apple receives don't include FM capabilities as they typically do. Note too that unlike the common belief held by some commenters a space consuming two foot built-in antenna is not necessary either. I remembered reading this some time back while researching a GPS antenna issue on another site. 
        http://www.infineon.com/dgdl/Infineon+-+Article+-+BGB719+Miniature+LNA+for+embedded+FM+radio+antenna.pdf?fileId=db3a30433a047ba0013a4aa7a03b64c2
        "requires power" is the issue with that. And, new hardware and not backwards-compatible, nor a switch to throw.
        Hmm… Anyone know how long a Qi induction receiver coil is? I wonder if it could be used as a suitable FM antenna with some clever switching to keep the FM receiver from being fried during battery charging. Obviously, this falls into the "future possibilities" department.
        Or they could use the front or back glass as the antannae (like on the watch for LTE) - "Courage"

        no they can not, the antenna has to be about 1/2 to 1/5 of the wavelength long. That means you have to have wire which is stretched out to that length. Cellphone frequency are so high the antenna length is very small line only a few centimeters. What a failure of our education system, this is basis physic taught in high school.
      • Reply 133 of 153
        gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,894member
        maestro64 said:
        k2kw said:
        gatorguy said:
        sog35 said:
        gatorguy said:
        gatorguy said:
        If you live in a hurricane prone area, you should have a hand crank emergency weather radio. How would people in Puerto Rico be powering their iPhones to use as radios when they are mostly without any power anyway? These little radios can be had for like $20 now and they have flashlights, radios, can even crank to charge your smart phone. I guess Apple should also make a crank accessory? Pai is such an idiot.
        Agreed. I live in a hurricane prone area and have gone thru some. Cell phone is useless when the power is out for days on end. Hand crank radio worked perfectly. I’d rather save the limited phone power for texts, assuming towers online. 
        I'm sure you figured out you can charge your phone from your vehicle. ;)
        If only vehicles included radios. /s
        I don't think you'll be walking out to your vehicle in blasting rain when tree branches, fence pieces and yard chairs are flying past pushed by 100MPH winds. At least I would assume you're wiser than that.

        Dead of night, no porchlights, no streetlights, no moonlight, the only light a fleeting one when a transformer explodes. You can hear the wind howl, the trees cracking, unknown things hitting your home while you wait and pray that it's not accompanied by tornadoes which are far more likely to rip your roof off than the hurricane. If you've lost all your normal connections to the outside world whether by accident or ignorance that FM chip in your phone could be your best friend for a few hours. 
        Again: Why didn't you have the FM crank radio with you THE NIGHT BEFORE?

        And don't tell me they were sold out.  You should have purchased the FM radio months if not years ago. You live in a high risk Hurricane area.  That's your fault for not being prepared, not Apple.

        This is like blaming Apple that the iPhone does not have a smoke alarm and your house caught on fire but you didn't install smoke alarms.
        I WAS prepared. Well prepared since this was my 5th hurricane. One of my young neighbors was not as he had never experienced a hurricane before. And yes his wife was scared to death when the house went black and phones and internet went out. They were one of the first neighbors I checked on along with two very elderly ones on my street after the sun came up and the rains tapered down enough.

        I was able to find every thing I needed (plywood, water, food) by the Wednesday before Irma but couldn't find D Batteries for my radio. I think requiring radio support is great so I've already sent an email to Senators Rubio and Nelson to pass a law requiring it. Maybe apple can "Innovate" and come up with a solution or put the headphone jack back- "Courage"
        We do not need anymore laws from the Nanny State. People just need to be responsible for themselves. If you ever listen to the information provide on the EBS it is common sense things, like stay indoors, stay away from windows, do not touch down wires (which people do all the time and die) They are not providing information which is completely obvious if you though about it. As person who has been through a number of natural disasters, I only listen once to the EBS a long time ago and after 5 minutes you learn everything you need to know. They just keep repeating the same thing over and over again. They are not providing minute by minute tactical updates,  
        Apple does a lot of things "for our own good". They make every effort to block users from straying outside the protection of the walled garden for content or features (aka, jailbreak). They do what they can to keep you away from anything Apple decides is pornographic, protecting you from making poor moral choices. They block apps from the App Store that Apple thinks may be offensive or too violent for you, again helping you avoid bad moral decisions. They proactively decide for users that limiting personalized ads should be the rule rather than the exception so even if the iPhone owner doesn't believe (or recognize) he's giving up too much privacy Apple thinks so for him/her. 

        Much of this you have no choice over, Apple is choosing for you. Is that akin to Nanny-ism? Not saying that it's even a bad thing as some people really need their hand held. Poor user choices are evident all over, and every day. Dumb people making dumb mistakes...
        and smart people making dumb mistakes too.This could just be another of those choices Apple would make for our own good. 
        edited September 2017
      • Reply 134 of 153
        trumptmantrumptman Posts: 16,458member
         So what about devices prior to iPhone 7, Apple?!
        STILL NO FM ANTENNA. 

        This has never been a switch to throw, regardless of what the FCC chairman says.
        I know this has been noted but to me it doesn’t pass the smell test. Every other phone with the same chips and a headphone jack (we are talking iPhone 6S and below) has the FM ability and Apple doesn’t? We’ve seen Apple do this in a number of areas. RIght now they intentionally throttle down the Qualcomm chip so that it matches the performance of the Intel chip as an example. People know the capabilities of the chips and what they can and can’t do but Apple does what they do too.
      • Reply 135 of 153
        gatorguy said:
        tmay said:
        tmay said:
        Apple would never do what the FCC Chairman Pai urge Apple to do!  It would take away some of Apple music streaming business revenue and cellular companies data usage revenue!  Apple is all about maximizing profit!  
        Which is why they included a mini-jack to lightning connector adapter for free. Sigh...

        I'm not an RF guy, but there's a hell of a lot of difference between a Lightning connection and a 3.5 mm headphone jack; I'm thinking that Lightning, a digital connection, won't pass an analog signal from an antenna.
        I'm buzzword compliant on RF matters -- and can confirm your suspicion that there is a giant difference.
        removed post, thanks for Apple statement update.
        Yes I appreciate it too. That's new information. I would be curious tho why the Qualcomm chips Apple receives don't include FM capabilities as they typically do. Note too that unlike the common belief held by some commenters a space consuming two foot built-in antenna is not necessary either. I remembered reading this some time back while researching a GPS antenna issue on another site. 
        http://www.infineon.com/dgdl/Infineon+-+Article+-+BGB719+Miniature+LNA+for+embedded+FM+radio+antenna.pdf?fileId=db3a30433a047ba0013a4aa7a03b64c2


        This is marketing hype, yes it works, but in the real world it does not work all that well, the whole idea of active antenna came out of the GPS world, this tech was developed to make GPS work better and works well with high frequency digitally encoded signals. The GPS signal is very high freq and very low power and you need an active antenna.  FM is pure analog which can be laden with lots of noise and active antenna will amplify the noise. In the Digital world you and filter the digital noise so much easier than in the analog world.

        I also suspect FM functions was removed for a couple of reason, Once being FM is analog and Celluar is digital and having mix signal on the same chip can be problematic and noise. Also the circuit could draw extra power which you do not have to deal with. Since this is not a feature many companies try an implement they choose to remove it so not to deal with the down side issues.

      • Reply 136 of 153
        GG1GG1 Posts: 265member
        maestro64 said:
        gatorguy said:
        tmay said:
        tmay said:
        Apple would never do what the FCC Chairman Pai urge Apple to do!  It would take away some of Apple music streaming business revenue and cellular companies data usage revenue!  Apple is all about maximizing profit!  
        Which is why they included a mini-jack to lightning connector adapter for free. Sigh...

        I'm not an RF guy, but there's a hell of a lot of difference between a Lightning connection and a 3.5 mm headphone jack; I'm thinking that Lightning, a digital connection, won't pass an analog signal from an antenna.
        I'm buzzword compliant on RF matters -- and can confirm your suspicion that there is a giant difference.
        removed post, thanks for Apple statement update.
        Yes I appreciate it too. That's new information. I would be curious tho why the Qualcomm chips Apple receives don't include FM capabilities as they typically do. Note too that unlike the common belief held by some commenters a space consuming two foot built-in antenna is not necessary either. I remembered reading this some time back while researching a GPS antenna issue on another site. 
        http://www.infineon.com/dgdl/Infineon+-+Article+-+BGB719+Miniature+LNA+for+embedded+FM+radio+antenna.pdf?fileId=db3a30433a047ba0013a4aa7a03b64c2


        This is marketing hype, yes it works, but in the real world it does not work all that well, the whole idea of active antenna came out of the GPS world, this tech was developed to make GPS work better and works well with high frequency digitally encoded signals. The GPS signal is very high freq and very low power and you need an active antenna.  FM is pure analog which can be laden with lots of noise and active antenna will amplify the noise. In the Digital world you and filter the digital noise so much easier than in the analog world.

        I also suspect FM functions was removed for a couple of reason, Once being FM is analog and Celluar is digital and having mix signal on the same chip can be problematic and noise. Also the circuit could draw extra power which you do not have to deal with. Since this is not a feature many companies try an implement they choose to remove it so not to deal with the down side issues.

        I agree. I suspect that internal noise on FM demod in the Infineon chip is a major issue, as well as no longer being able to rely on headphone wires making a good antenna (an internal active antenna is NOT equivalent). As more digital signal capability is added to these chips, the analog FM demod is being bombarded by an ever higher noise environment inside the chip. I suspect that the FM signal-to-noise ratio degraded too far to be usable without (a lot) more (costly) engineering.
      • Reply 137 of 153
        mike1mike1 Posts: 1,910member
        Might be too late for this discussion thread, but I found this today...

        https://finance.yahoo.com/news/apple-remind-fcc-t-activate-022434823.html

        stompy
      • Reply 138 of 153
        Why doesn’t the FCC turn on the internet over FM. /s
      • Reply 139 of 153
        Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 4,753administrator
        trumptman said:
         So what about devices prior to iPhone 7, Apple?!
        STILL NO FM ANTENNA. 

        This has never been a switch to throw, regardless of what the FCC chairman says.
        I know this has been noted but to me it doesn’t pass the smell test. Every other phone with the same chips and a headphone jack (we are talking iPhone 6S and below) has the FM ability and Apple doesn’t? We’ve seen Apple do this in a number of areas. RIght now they intentionally throttle down the Qualcomm chip so that it matches the performance of the Intel chip as an example. People know the capabilities of the chips and what they can and can’t do but Apple does what they do too.
        Okay, one more time. There are physics at work, here.

        Having FM compatibility in a chip does not mean that the support equipment for same chip is included. The modem chip in the 5 to 6s chip itself is not an antenna, and prior phones don't have an FM-capable modem at all. There would have to be support equipment inside the phone for a headphone antenna. 

        That support equipment does not exist. Therefore, there is no software switch to throw to make this work, and Pai could have sent an intern into the FCC documents to see if this was possible. Why he didn't is a mystery to me.

        Could Apple engineer this in hardware and software in the future if it wanted to? Sure.

        Is it a dormant ability in the previous phones that it just decided that it wanted to not turn on in iOS? No. 

        Could they turn on the chip in the 5 through 6s in software? Sure -- but with no antenna, and no way to add one in hardware retroactively, it wouldn't do anything.
        edited September 2017
      • Reply 140 of 153
        trumptmantrumptman Posts: 16,458member
        trumptman said:
         So what about devices prior to iPhone 7, Apple?!
        STILL NO FM ANTENNA. 

        This has never been a switch to throw, regardless of what the FCC chairman says.
        I know this has been noted but to me it doesn’t pass the smell test. Every other phone with the same chips and a headphone jack (we are talking iPhone 6S and below) has the FM ability and Apple doesn’t? We’ve seen Apple do this in a number of areas. RIght now they intentionally throttle down the Qualcomm chip so that it matches the performance of the Intel chip as an example. People know the capabilities of the chips and what they can and can’t do but Apple does what they do too.
        Okay, one more time. There are physics at work, here.

        Having FM compatibility in a chip does not mean that the support equipment for same chip is included. The modem chip in the 5 to 6s chip itself is not an antenna, and prior phones don't have an FM-capable modem at all. There would have to be support equipment inside the phone for a headphone antenna. 

        That support equipment does not exist. Therefore, there is no software switch to throw to make this work, and Pai could have sent an intern into the FCC documents to see if this was possible. Why he didn't is a mystery to me.

        Could Apple engineer this in hardware and software in the future if it wanted to? Sure.

        Is it a dormant ability in the previous phones that it just decided that it wanted to not turn on in iOS? No. 

        Could they turn on the chip in the 5 through 6s in software? Sure -- but with no antenna, and no way to add one in hardware retroactively, it wouldn't do anything.

        That's not my understanding nor what I've seen reported elsewhere. I fully understand that all FM compatibility will cell phones requires an antenna and that all phones up to this point use the headphones attached through the headphone jack to provide that antenna. I'm also fully aware that Apple increasingly is engineering their own custom chips beyond the CPU and now GPU and as part of that process, they don't want to include this ability in those chips when they find a way to move past Intel and Qualcomm as an example. Basically we don't have the ability via schematics on the headphone port iPhones to know whether Apple is capable of turning on the FM chip or just digging in their heels. I'm suggesting the equipment exists and Apple just doesn't want to do it. I mentioned the examples of Apple being unwilling to acknowledge clear hardware differences and differences in capabilities in hardware between vendors for the iPhone. The most recent example was Quallcomm vs Intel but prior examples involved CPU's being sourced from difference sources, screens, etc. Apple's official word isn't good enough. We've seen this capability blocked via software on Android phones and even then the vendors haven't been very eager to provide access. For example on the Samsung phones there had to be an update and then people had to gain access via third party app.

        All that said, I think it appropriate to mandate this ability going forward and Apple should be included in that mandate. I understand we should all be prepared. However there are times when we aren't at home with all our goodies. I think of my own son right now who is of that younger generation. He doesn't even seem to worry much about driving and even seems to enjoy taking public transit buses to university. If something were to go down in terms of an earthquake in California. He can't go to his car and turn on the radio. What he will have on him is his phone and this is true of lots of people. Right now it is is merely an urging. I would recommend it be a mandate.
        gatorguy
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